Are the Odds Against Relationships?

[uniqueone]

Another thread today from me.....boy I haven't gotten a damn thing done....does anyone else get too caught up in LS like this sometimes?

 

Anyway, this guy I work with goes to get a sandwich at lunch and then goes to a park to eat it in his car. He sees this car pull up with a man and woman and the seats go back and then he sees the womans head going up and down. (nice lunchtime show for him, huh?)

 

Later he notices the same car in our parking lot. We're not sure who it is...there are other offices in the building.

 

A few months ago, a coworker who sits by the windows overlooking the parking lot told me how these cars show up everyday at lunchtime and the woman gets into the mans car and they drive off together. Neither one worked in our office building.

 

My question is....with all of this cheating that goes on.......I sometimes wonder why we bother.

 

I don't think relationships work when there's cheating, no matter what anyone says. If the affair is discovered, there is no trust and there's resentment. People are fooling themselves if they think they can regain it. You will never really trust that person again.

 

If the affair is NOT discovered, there is lying and covering up and that creates distance in a relationship.

 

So if there's all this cheating going on.....and cheating destroys relationships no matter what.....then what hope is there for relationships?

[tanbark813]

So if there's all this cheating going on.....and cheating destroys relationships no matter what.....then what hope is there for relationships?

 

Don't cheat and find someone else who won't. Granted it's not easy, and the odds are certainly stacked against you, but if more people took a harder stance against cheating it might not be so prevalent. Too many people forgive cheating and try to work things out so a greater percentage of people think they can get away with it. And oftentimes we don't want to believe we're being cheated on. Denial can be a crazy bitch.

[Tony T]

Not everybody cheats. Though there's a lot of cheating going on in relationships, there's a lot of income tax cheating, high school and college exam cheating, overtime hours cheating, expense voucher cheating, etc. We are a species of cheaters all the way around. No, not everybody cheats on everything but most people cheat on some things.

 

There is no way to every know if the man or woman you are in partnership with has the potential for betrayal, except to know that they are human and the seed is there. You just have to hope they have the fortitude, the morals, the self discipline to keep their clothes on around strangers.

 

A well respected minister of a church I attended once got caught cheating with a deacon's wife. I no longer attended the church when it happened but I read about it in the newspaper. Of course, Jim Bakker cheated on Tammy Faye, Jimmy Swaggart cheated on his wife, Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary, etc. People in positions of trust and power can cheat...even when the eyes and ears of the world are upon them.

 

The best thing to do is accept the possibility and know that everybody's human...everybody's capable of sin...it simply is a part of being human. Sometimes it's the very people who look upon adultery with disdain that do the cheating. It's very painful for the parties, it's hard to get through, it can be one of the worst things to happen to any human being...but, alas, we are on an earth where anything can happen at anytime.

 

I don't think it's good to choose a life without love or partnership because of the possibility of betrayal. Just put a keyboard logger on the computer, review all cell phone bills, have a private detective follow your partner after hours, go with your partner to parties, after hours business meetings, etc., go to lunch with your partner and his or her workplace everyday, watch his or here eyes as you walk through the mall, and leave someone to watch him or her when you have to go to the bathroom. What a life, uh?

[Trialbyfire]

Why is the assumption that there's cheating going on? They might just be a frisky couple who have no patience to wait until later.

[uniqueone]

Not everybody cheats. Though there's a lot of cheating going on in relationships, there's a lot of income tax cheating, high school and college exam cheating, overtime hours cheating, expense voucher cheating, etc. We are a species of cheaters all the way around. No, not everybody cheats on everything but most people cheat on some things.

 

There is no way to every know if the man or woman you are in partnership with has the potential for betrayal, except to know that they are human and the seed is there. You just have to hope they have the fortitude, the morals, the self discipline to keep their clothes on around strangers.

 

A well respected minister of a church I attended once got caught cheating with a deacon's wife. I no longer attended the church when it happened but I read about it in the newspaper. Of course, Jim Bakker cheated on Tammy Faye, Jimmy Swaggart cheated on his wife, Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary, etc. People in positions of trust and power can cheat...even when the eyes and ears of the world are upon them.

 

The best thing to do is accept the possibility and know that everybody's human...everybody's capable of sin...it simply is a part of being human. Sometimes it's the very people who look upon adultery with disdain that do the cheating. It's very painful for the parties, it's hard to get through, it can be one of the worst things to happen to any human being...but, alas, we are on an earth where anything can happen at anytime.

 

I don't think it's good to choose a life without love or partnership because of the possibility of betrayal. Just put a keyboard logger on the computer, review all cell phone bills, have a private detective follow your partner after hours, go with your partner to parties, after hours business meetings, etc., go to lunch with your partner and his or her workplace everyday, watch his or here eyes as you walk through the mall, and leave someone to watch him or her when you have to go to the bathroom. What a life, uh?

 

But I think a huge problem is.....more and more we are looking at it as acceptable. Remember how cursing used to be looked upon harshly? Now, you hear it on TV! Full frontal nudity and sex scenes are seen in movies that teens can go see.

The more things happen, the more we tend to accept them as "normal".

 

THAT is the part that's scary.

[uniqueone]

Why is the assumption that there's cheating going on? They might just be a frisky couple who have no patience to wait until later.

 

 

Uh-huh......and I think I just saw Pa taking Mary Ingalls to Sunday school too......

Oh wait a minute.....we're in 2007........

 

Err.....the couple in the car exchange...turns out someone let the woman know they knew what she was doing and she got a little upset.

 

The woman bobbing her head in the car for apples......we think we know who the guy is....and his wife isn't blonde......and she lives in another city.......

 

Sorry...being a litle sarcastic here ......but the truth is, we have enough proof that these arent' married couples or SO's and I've seen it happen soooooo many other times and I have plenty of proof that they were cheating. AND I've had plenty of married guys try it with me.

[Timberlane]

Ooops. You added the details before I posted.

 

But I know it's difficult to keep the faith sometimes. I've had two cheating girlfriends before, but it really didn't embitter me. The next ones didn't cheat, nor did I (and I've never done it anyway). You create your own world when you are with someone. If you want to lay a big turd down in the bed and sleep in it like a cheater, then that's what you sow. Everyone I have known that cheated on their SO has been a miserable, pathetic excuse. I even stopped being friends with a guy recently because he would just brag on and on about the hot former Miss Nebraska he hired and then proceeded to bed down, all with the mean wife at home with the kids. Boring.

 

So don't let others influence you negatively like that.

[woodsfield]

Anyway, this guy I work with goes to get a sandwich at lunch and then goes to a park to eat it in his car. He sees this car pull up with a man and woman and the seats go back and then he sees the womans head going up and down. (nice lunchtime show for him, huh?)

 

 

sounds like the other guy had a better show for lunch;)

 

but to stay on subject, i can't speak for others, but i don't think i have it in me to cheat and niether does my wife (she says the same thing about both of us)...maybe we are nieve, but i have certain morals that i will not cross; cheating is one of them.

 

i think there is hope, but hope is hanging on by a thread.

[Trialbyfire]

Uh-huh......and I think I just saw Pa taking Mary Ingalls to Sunday school too......

Oh wait a minute.....we're in 2007........

 

Err.....the couple in the car exchange...turns out someone let the woman know they knew what she was doing and she got a little upset.

 

The woman bobbing her head in the car for apples......we think we know who the guy is....and his wife isn't blonde......and she lives in another city.......

 

Sorry...being a litle sarcastic here ......but the truth is, we have enough proof that these arent' married couples or SO's and I've seen it happen soooooo many other times and I have plenty of proof that they were cheating. AND I've had plenty of married guys try it with me.

I sometimes wonder how much of your threads are made up information.

[Capricorn]

This is why old couples that have been married for forty years are so amazing, they actually made it work that long! I was just telling my man the other day if you think about it the odds are against a relationship between a man and a woman cause first it's two human beings trying to be together even though they will not always agree on everything and on top of it the whole differences between a man and a woman. I think for a relationship to work it's best to have a lot in common, same taste in music,movies,hobbies,sex style,values,morals,religious beliefs will make two people feel closer than being with someone you don't have much in common with. I also think the more you have in common the less likely there will be cheating. It seems most men and women cheat because they feel unsatisfied in their relationship. For example, I like going out but prefer to be home a lot, my man is the same way and we are both happy and content being home together. My ex boyfriend wanted to go out all the time and was very social I actually think that was a big part of why he left me, we could never agree on anything. My ex and I were very attracted to eachother and had great sex but it wasn't enough to keep our relationship together. In general people put to much importance in physical attraction.

[shadowofman]

But I think a huge problem is.....more and more we are looking at it as acceptable. Remember how cursing used to be looked upon harshly? Now, you hear it on TV! Full frontal nudity and sex scenes are seen in movies that teens can go see.

The more things happen, the more we tend to accept them as "normal".

 

THAT is the part that's scary.

There is a ton of "cheating" going on, not just today but through all time. We see it today as cheating because of our culture. I would argue that in the recent past, cheating was even more acceptable. Men were thought to NEED a mistress at the turn of the 20th century and their wives where expected to put up with it. We have just become a more equal gender society. The result is what we call cheating. I personally believe we need to evolve past archaic notions of monogamy. Not in a male dominate way, but in an anti-possessive way. Free love and all that. Accept the fact that a large percentage of the population has an inclination toward promiscuity, figure out where you fit into that statement, and do your best to find a compatable partner. Under the current cultural environment, where "cheating" is still not fashionable, it will be hard to seperate monogamous people from people that claim to be mongamous.

[uniqueone]

I sometimes wonder how much of your threads are made up information.

 

You've got to be kidding, right?

Not one bit of my threads are made up. Shall I have my two coworkers post here and tell the stories themselves?

 

I'm curious as to what makes you think they're made up. Care to share?

 

I'm a complete and utter realist. I am told, however, that I lead an interesting life and should write about it. I have a tendency (for some reason) to encounter numerous unusual people and situations and I have a knack for writing about it (I'm told). I used to think that everyone met as many unusual people as I did until people that I know started to find the things I talked about so interesting. I'd think "Uh...you mean this doesn't happen to YOU too?"

My life is kind of life an on-going Seinfeld episode.

 

But I don't think you're concerned about that. I'm thinking you just want to create controversy maybe?

[uniqueone]

This is why old couples that have been married for forty years are so amazing, they actually made it work that long! I was just telling my man the other day if you think about it the odds are against a relationship between a man and a woman cause first it's two human beings trying to be together even though they will not always agree on everything and on top of it the whole differences between a man and a woman. I think for a relationship to work it's best to have a lot in common, same taste in music,movies,hobbies,sex style,values,morals,religious beliefs will make two people feel closer than being with someone you don't have much in common with. I also think the more you have in common the less likely there will be cheating. It seems most men and women cheat because they feel unsatisfied in their relationship. For example, I like going out but prefer to be home a lot, my man is the same way and we are both happy and content being home together. My ex boyfriend wanted to go out all the time and was very social I actually think that was a big part of why he left me, we could never agree on anything. My ex and I were very attracted to eachother and had great sex but it wasn't enough to keep our relationship together. In general people put to much importance in physical attraction.

 

I don't think people cheat because of a lack of having things in common....because they often cheat with people they don't have a lot in common with. I think they cheat for reasons such as they want excitement, they have low self esteem, etc.....

In other words, I think it has more to do with themselves.

[uniqueone]

There is a ton of "cheating" going on, not just today but through all time. We see it today as cheating because of our culture. I would argue that in the recent past, cheating was even more acceptable. Men were thought to NEED a mistress at the turn of the 20th century and their wives where expected to put up with it. We have just become a more equal gender society. The result is what we call cheating. I personally believe we need to evolve past archaic notions of monogamy. Not in a male dominate way, but in an anti-possessive way. Free love and all that. Accept the fact that a large percentage of the population has an inclination toward promiscuity, figure out where you fit into that statement, and do your best to find a compatable partner. Under the current cultural environment, where "cheating" is still not fashionable, it will be hard to seperate monogamous people from people that claim to be mongamous.

 

 

You say that monogamy is archaic and the notion should be done away with. So explain this....explain the heartbreak that comes with cheating. What you're asking is that we detach ourselves from sex. YOU may be able to do that. MEN may be able to do that. WOMEN usually AREN'T able to do that. This is why non-monogamous relationships don't work.

 

We're more than just body parts. We have emotions. We can't give ourselves physically to you and then watch as you give yourselves physically to the next person. We just can't.

[Woggle]

You just have to find a mate that sees it the same you do when it comes to cheating and being faithful. This is exactly why I made the dating rules for men thread because I am telling men how to best find a woman that they can have a successful relationship with.

[Whyme_wtf]

Cheating happens for many reasons.

I think it has become far to common. People who think it is acceptable in a relationship are really not capable of having a loving relationship or the relationship is on its way out.

People also have them while in a relationship or marriage because something in that relationship has made them vulnerable.

One thing for certain, outside activity either physical or emotional is so harmful to a relationship. The energy is going to the wrong place and there are lies and betrayal involved too.

There are few relationships that can survive that combination.

[lonelybird]

People are fooling themselves

....

 

 

So if there's all this cheating going on.....and cheating destroys relationships no matter what.....then what hope is there for relationships?

People always fool themselves, it is the real problem

 

To find a faithful and secure man is the hope for the relationship? Sometimes we have to work, we all have insecurities and fears, and it takes lots of work to overcome these to be in a good relationship

[shadowofman]

You say that monogamy is archaic and the notion should be done away with. So explain this....explain the heartbreak that comes with cheating. What you're asking is that we detach ourselves from sex. YOU may be able to do that. MEN may be able to do that. WOMEN usually AREN'T able to do that. This is why non-monogamous relationships don't work.

We're more than just body parts. We have emotions. We can't give ourselves physically to you and then watch as you give yourselves physically to the next person. We just can't.

 

Whao!...I never said that you could, or that you should get over monogamy. I was refering to our culture. By all means, look for monogamy all you want to in this "cheating world". Your the one asking if the odds are against monogamy, and I'm telling you that they are.

The heartbreak that comes with "cheating" is a learned behavior. If you were born in a different time and a different place, you may not experience heartbreak under these circumstances. Some cultures are polygamous and don't experience relationships in the same way that you do.

First of all, ask yourself what it is about "cheating" that bothers you. The obvious answer is the lying, but that's a given. It's something else, isn't it.

We can't give ourselves physically to you and then watch as you give yourselves physically to the next person. We just can't.

Seperate the terms jealous and prossessive. There is nothing you can do about getting jealous or envious, feeling lonely or unwanted, but possessiveness is a cultural learned behavior, and it's archaic. You shouldn't own someone else, period. That is of course my subjective opinion on that matter.

This is why non-monogamous relationships don't work.

Do mongamous relationships work? And how do you know? Several of my friends are in open relationships that are working fine (of course they are hippies). What does it mean for a relationship to work? I think by your definition of a working relationship, anything besides monogamy is broken.

[uniqueone]

The heartbreak that comes with "cheating" is a learned behavior. If you were born in a different time and a different place, you may not experience heartbreak under these circumstances. Some cultures are polygamous and don't experience relationships in the same way that you do.

 

And those societies that are polygamous are notorious for equality and freedom, huh?

And did you notice that they're one-sided? Did you notice that the men have several women vs. the women having several men? Hmmmm......funny how that works.

And did you notice how the more financially independent and confident a woman becomes the less she wants to be part of a harem?

 

 

First of all, ask yourself what it is about "cheating" that bothers you. The obvious answer is the lying, but that's a given. It's something else, isn't it.

 

Seperate the terms jealous and prossessive. There is nothing you can do about getting jealous or envious, feeling lonely or unwanted, but possessiveness is a cultural learned behavior, and it's archaic. You shouldn't own someone else, period. That is of course my subjective opinion on that matter.

 

So people are upset by cheating because they're just possessive you're saying? And according to you, possessiveness is learned and archaic.

 

Hmmm....another being is physically entering my body.....but I shouldn't be possessive.

Another being is mixing their bodily fluids with mine with the potential to create a human life.....but I shouldn't be possessive.

Another being is exposing me to their immune system and any communicable diseases or virus's it may have.......but I shouldn't be possessive.

Another being is expressing their love for me as unique and separate from their love for others......but I shouldn't feel possessive.

 

And after doing all of this, that person then does it with the next person the very next day...but my feeling possessive is archaic.

 

Yeah....that's just your subjective opinion alright.......

 

Do mongamous relationships work? And how do you know? Several of my friends are in open relationships that are working fine (of course they are hippies).

And we all know that hippies are someone to aspire to....

[shadowofman]

And those societies that are polygamous are notorious for equality and freedom, huh?

I will not deny that polygamous cultures do tend to be male dominated, although there are a few that are female dominated in the polynesian islands. Then again, I would also suggest that entering into any sort of 'traditional' committed relationship is a willing abandonment of your freedom. You become the possesion of another. I'm all for freedom and equality, meaning that my partner should be allowed to do what she pleases just as I should. As of right now, my W is allowed to do as she pleases and I am not. I concider her to be free and myself to be a possession.

Hmmm....another being is physically entering my body.....but I shouldn't be possessive.

Another being is mixing their bodily fluids with mine with the potential to create a human life.....but I shouldn't be possessive.

Another being is exposing me to their immune system and any communicable diseases or virus's it may have.......but I shouldn't be possessive.

Another being is expressing their love for me as unique and separate from their love for others......but I shouldn't feel possessive.

And after doing all of this, that person then does it with the next person the very next day...but my feeling possessive is archaic.

Out of all this appeal to emotion, you have brought up two important points.

Yes, there is a danger of STDs and a monogamous relationship (as rare as they are) is the best way to prevent the spread.

I argue that this doesn't matter one bit to you though. If you knew for a fact that your SO was intending to have sex with a virgin, you would be no less possessive.

The other point you have made is about the expression of unique love. This is the real issue for most people. And this is where subjective opinions matter. You may see sex as an expression of unique love, and there are plenty of you out there that would agree subjectively (mostly women). You are unwilling to accept someone "expressing unique love" to anyone else. This IS being possessive whether or not you believe this behavior to be moral. If this is you, then by all means, make yourself happy. Find another monogamous person and possess each other forever.

This is not easy to do however. Our culture demonizes promiscuous people (the majority of us), forcing them to hide their promiscuous orientations. We suppress them and deny them. As a result, we cheat. This is why it appears to you as if the odds are stacked against relationships. This is why a mojority of people cheat.

The truth is that the odds are not stacked against relationships, just monogamous relationships. Even if you think you are in one, you may not be. People lie about their promiscuousness because they feel like they have to.

If you think I called you and your monogamousness archaic, I'm sorry. My intent is not to impose my subjective orientations upon people. I did however describe the act of possessing a person that does not wish to be possessed as archaic.

[shadowplay]

I find it funny that the people extolling the virtues of "polyamory" are almost always men. Sorry, but you're not fooling anyone with your pseudo philosophical rationalizations for your inability to keep your dick in your pants. I don't buy it for a second.

[MerryMelodie]

It seems like the odds are against women!!! Most women want a committed relationship but most men want an open relationship. Even if a man is physically loyal he will still want to look at porn,go to strip clubs,flirt with other women and think of other women sexually. Men think those things don't count as cheating cause it's not actual sex. When I'm in a relationship I am mentally and physically loyal. Yeah once in a while I'll notice another attractive guy but I don't think of screwing them! Looks really don't impress me! I don't get turned on by complete strangers that could be people I wouldn't even get along with. Anyway us women are the ones that suffer more heart break in life.

[shadowofman]

I find it funny that the people extolling the virtues of "polyamory" are almost always men.

This is exactly what I've been saying. Men, or most of us anyway, are biologically adapted to have and want to have more than one sexual partner. You have every right to get angry about this fact of life, just as I am angry that a percentage of the culture expects be to be something that I am not. Evolution has totally screwed us in the relationship department.

Sorry, but you're not fooling anyone with your pseudo philosophical rationalizations for your inability to keep your dick in your pants. I don't buy it for a second.

What exactly don't you buy? I'm not saying that people don't have the ability to "keep it in their pants". These are not philosophical ideas that I'm sharing. These are biological facts.

There is a certain percentage of people that want to be promiscuous in life, usually men.

There is another certain percentage that want to be the possession of and to possess another, usually women.

Neither lifestyle is the correct lifestyle! Our only goal is to find a partner that honestly compliments your idea of a relationship.

It seems like the odds are against women!!! Most women want a committed relationship but most men want an open relationship.

Back to the topic at hand, the odds are stacked against monogamous relationships because of a few points.

Our culture demonizes promiscuity especially in women. The moment a young girl has sex, she is called a slut by her peers. As opposed to men being called players. It's less offensive, because everyone understands that men like multiple sex partners.

And because promiscuity is demonized, men typically pretend to have a monogamous orientation. "I'm not a player!"

Anyway us women are the ones that suffer more heart break in life.

Because you believe pomiscuous men that tell you they are monogamous or could be monogamous. They can't. You can't make someone straight. You can't make someone stop being a pedophile. And you can't stop a promiscuous person from wanting to be promiscuous. All you can do is threaten, control, snoop, dominate and possess them until they liberate themselves from the situation.

I don't buy it for a second.

If you can't see the world in front of your face, then your not paying attention.

[pyroguy]

It seems like the odds are against women!!! Most women want a committed relationship but most men want an open relationship. Even if a man is physically loyal he will still want to look at porn,go to strip clubs,flirt with other women and think of other women sexually. Men think those things don't count as cheating cause it's not actual sex. When I'm in a relationship I am mentally and physically loyal. Yeah once in a while I'll notice another attractive guy but I don't think of screwing them! Looks really don't impress me! I don't get turned on by complete strangers that could be people I wouldn't even get along with. Anyway us women are the ones that suffer more heart break in life.

 

 

Now Now, that a bit unfair. I think it's both sexes that behave this way these days. Women cheating is rampant right now. In addition, they initiate 70% of the divorces, and their are plenty of clips that show their behavior in male strip clubs- I posted one here once, and no females commented. The silence was deafening! The point is, women apparently need no mental connection and are just as lustful as men.

 

Also, many women like this open relationship too, and it stands to benefit them more, or should I say, it's easier. Some women DO want a relationship, as long as they can get their sexual thrills met elsewhere. Sad but true.

 

The bigger point is that maybe the odds are against relationships. More and more people share shadowofmans opinion. The world is getting a bit more like that all the time. I guess we'll see who's right in about 20 or 30 years.

[MerryMelodie]

Well most of the women I know want a commited relationship but yeah there definatly are a lot of cheating women also! Me personally I cannot just sleep with any random hot guy. Yes part of the reason I'm with my boyfriend is because I think he's soo hot but his personality,the way he acts and being comfortable with him is what really turns me on. Men are way more likely to be shallow and just screw some random women they think is hot even if the womans personality sucks!. Most women need a mental and emotional connection to give their self to a man.