looking for the male perspective (women's welcome tho!)

[Kerewin]

I have been dating a man for four months. Although it's a short time, I'm old enough--36--that I think I can evaluate things clearly. We have a LOT in common (similar family histories, world views, senses of humor, values, etc.). I thought things were great. Yesterday he told me that although we have a great friendship and great chemistry, he still doesn't think of me as his girlfriend. That he "doesn't hurt when I'm not around" like his buddies do for their new sweethearts. He says he's only felt that "hurt" twice before--both in cases where the relationships were short-lived and doomed from the start because the women in question were moving shortly. I don't feel that "hurt" about him when he's not around either, but I still know I was falling in love. I think his definition of love is really infatuation, but I know it's futile to talk someone into changing their mind about something like that. We've agreed to keep seeing each other, but no longer exclusively. My question is, is there any way I can spark that infatuation? I hate to play games, but at this point, I'm open to that option. (Sorry if that's pathetic, but I was already imagining children with this man, and that's something that's never happened for me before).

[Krytie TV]

That he "doesn't hurt when I'm not around" like his buddies do for their new sweethearts. He says he's only felt that "hurt" twice before--both in cases where the relationships were short-lived and doomed from the start because the women in question were moving shortly.

 

Any man who would say this to you is, in my humble opinion, an a**hole and is not worth one more second of your time. However, I doubt you'll believe that.

[squeak]

I know you want advice, and I feel your pain, I really do, but he was telling you the truth. Why do you want to be with a guy who does not want you in a romantic way? Don't you think you deserve better than that? Sure you could waste your time trying not returning calls too frequently or pulling back, being hot and cold.

 

But I don't think that will work since he already admitted he doesn't hurt when you are not around. If it starts off so lukewarm, he is not going to feel chemistry as time goes on. If anything, the opposite. Spare yourself the pain.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Any man who would say this to you is, in my humble opinion, an a**hole and is not worth one more second of your time.

 

Which is precisely why she'll stick to him like glue. If he'd layed it on thick and spilled his guts to her on the first date, been at her emotional beck and call and unconditionally available to her from the beginning she'd have been sick of him by month two. As it stands she can't get enough of him now.

 

Let me ask you this KEREWIN, have you slept with this guy yet?

[Kerewin]

Actually, he DID lay it on rather thick at first. I was the one who had to slow him down--texting, calling and emailing all the time. Mentioned exclusivity almost from the start. Telling me I was fabulous (to which I said "Take the time to get to know me. If you put me on a pedestal now, I'm bound to dissapoint you because I'm only human".) And yes, we were physically intimate fairly early on, not sure why that matters, but open to your thoughts.

[ls3360]

...chemistry, he still doesn't think of me as his girlfriend. That he "doesn't hurt when I'm not around" like his buddies do for their new sweethearts.

 

Your posting rings some bells.

 

I felt about a gf recently the way he said he does. (No, I didn't tell her.) I assumed my feelings would get stronger with time if we really communicated and connected and got the basics down better. I stuck with it. We eventually (after three months) suddenly broke up apparently for some other reason. Oddly enough though, I discovered I really did miss her once we broke up. 'far more than I expected.

 

I didn't miss her when we were apart... until we were _really_ apart. It's only a single example, but perhaps there is a lesson in that for you.

 

'perhaps a second lesson... In our case, I think remaining "just" friends for a while after the "breakup", would have been the best thing for our relationship. We were moving too fast... which might not be the case for your two. If it applies to you two and he really does mean that he wants to be friends, that might actually be a blessing.

 

Again... I don't know nearly enough about you two to really suggest anything. Your situation simply rang some bells.

[ls3360]

If you put me on a pedestal now, I'm bound to dissapoint you because I'm only human".)

 

This is the third bell that you've rung in the same relationship. Again, it's just one sample, but suggesting that the other party might discover that you are not the catch that you appear to be or suggesting that the other party might eventually want out, can tend to result in exactly what you predict. There's got to be a better, more positive way, to achieve what you wanted to achieve when you said that.

 

 

And yes, we were physically intimate fairly early on, not sure why that matters, but open to your thoughts.

I doubt it matters. In our case, we were not but probably were going to be soon. Nor were we emotionally intimate in my opinion... although I assumed that would come as we expressed and worked out each of our reservations. Were you emotionally intimate? Do you think he thinks you two were?

[betterthandead]

Actually, he DID lay it on rather thick at first. I was the one who had to slow him down--texting, calling and emailing all the time. Mentioned exclusivity almost from the start. Telling me I was fabulous (to which I said "Take the time to get to know me. If you put me on a pedestal now, I'm bound to dissapoint you because I'm only human".) And yes, we were physically intimate fairly early on, not sure why that matters, but open to your thoughts.

 

He probably lost interest and he's being verbally honest. There's something he doesn't like about you, and whatever that is broke the deal.

[Kerewin]

to Is3360

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts! I think you really "get" what I'm trying to say. To answer your questions.....

 

You're right-- I probably could have said the pedestal thing better, maybe just "Let's take our time to get to know each other" or something along those lines.

 

My big problem is not understanding quite what he means---we're great friends, he's attracted to me, and yes, we've been emotionally as well as physically intimate. We've both been vulnerable with each other (each of us knows things about each other that no one else does, and he's been there for me through the loss of a family member).

Given all that---I don't understand what he thinks is missing. I'm still struck by how the only two times he thought he felt something "real" were with women he knew were leaving from the start. I can't help but think that it's easy to idealize someone or a relationship when there's that "doomed" quality going in (star-crossed lovers and all that). Also, I can't help but thing that "hurt when they're not around" part of a relationship ALWAYS ends, even if the relationship itself doesn't. And then you're left with what he and I already had---a strong friendship, trust, laughter, and good physical chemistry. I think it's also really telling that he says I'm the only woman he's ever wanted to be friends with after the breakup (and I think he means it, as we've already made plans to hang out). So, I just don't get it.

[Phateless]

It sounds like he has no clue what a functional relationship feels like. With the other two, there was pressure and a feeling of urgency. Any time he wasn't with them, he felt the clock ticking and it made him panic. I think he's confusing things.

 

If you guys aren't dating exclusively... the best way to get his attention is to make him think he might lose you. But beware... once you open this door, there's no going back. I wouldn't if I were you.

 

Date other people, and if he asks you out for a day when you already have plans, don't be too shy to tell him you have a date. HE wanted the open relationship, don't spare his feelings.

 

If this doesn't phase him, he's just not that into you and you have to accept that and decide what to do.

[birdie]

it doesn't sound like he's ever had a serious relationship and I'm not sure he understands what relationships are about. he likes drama and he is immature. I personally wouldn't bother with him any longer

[Timberlane]

The "hurt" we feel inside about another person is much more a creation of our own minds than it is based on external things like the other person's attractiveness. We create that feeling for ourselves. People don't usually own up to it, but it's a fact. Falling in love? You set it up. You place the banana peel down and step on the damn thing yourself. While you are reeling in the air ready to hit your face, no, you aren't in control. So someone that would say a thing like that is a dolt. He's basically saying he can't be bothered to create this feeling in himself, as if it worked that way. And he's needlessly candid. Some things are better left unsaid.

[Kerewin]

All of you have been most helpful. For those that said "he's an ass, just get over him" or some variation--my head knows that, but I can't force my heart to catch up; that just takes time. And while I HOPE things will change, I'm not EXPECTING them to. I care for him, but I'm not going to make him a priority if I'm not a priority for him. So, yes, I'm going to keep seeing him, but I'm also making plans with friends and asking them about any single, compatible guys they might know. In my 20's, I probably would have said "He's making a HUGE mistake" as a show of bravado and then taken to my bed for months, waiting for the phone to ring. In my 30's, I say "He's making a HUGE mistake"--and I know it's true. And I'm not waiting around. Still though, I love him. So, I guess I'm just asking for advice on how to "hedge my bets"--if I'm less available to him, making other plans, etc., do you think he might realize he misses me? Has anyone been in a situation where that was the case?

[Phateless]

It's possible, but it's tough... you just have to be willing to accept the fact that he might not feel the same. Or that he's an emotional wreck and can't figure out his real feelings, in which case he would probably be more trouble than he's worth anyway.

 

Keep playing the field, and hope he comes around. Don't play games, but don't hide the other guys from him either.

[Kerewin]

I really like what someone said about the "ticking clock"---that makes total sense. Also makes sense that it's easier (and safer) to let go emotionally with someone who's moving cause there's no follow-thru. So, where I stand--I love him, but won't wait for him. After reading everyone's posts this morning, I figured that as long as I was online I'd post on a dating site. Got quite a few responses and answered some. I figure that it's best to keep busy and give myself plenty of reminders that he's not the only man in the world, even if my broken heart insists he is. It's rough though---kills me cause we have SO much in common. I almost wish one of these "perfect" exes (who both had MAJOR issues, as he describes them) would come back into the picture and then maybe he'd see that infatuation doesn't last. Or at least it would kill all hope in me and maybe I'd be able to let go.

[ls3360]

to Is3360

he's been there for me through the loss of a family member).

 

Boy you're ringing a lot of bells when it comes to my analogous relationship. This also happened with us.

 

 

And while I HOPE things will change, I'm not EXPECTING them to. I care for him, but I'm not going to make him a priority if I'm not a priority for him. So, yes, I'm going to keep seeing him, but I'm also making plans with friends and asking them about any single, compatible guys they might know. In my 20's, I probably would have said "He's making a HUGE mistake" as a show of bravado and then taken to my bed for months, waiting for the phone to ring. In my 30's, I say "He's making a HUGE mistake"--and I know it's true. And I'm not waiting around. Still though, I love him.

I think you're mark on. It must also feel good to realize that you're taking a healthier approach than you would have a decade ago.

 

Here's a thought that might help: Maybe he didn't make a mistake. Maybe there is somethiing about him or the two of you that would have made things impossible for you two to be more than friends. If that's the case, you probably never had a future. Perhaps focusing on that can make the transition easier.

 

So, I guess I'm just asking for advice on how to "hedge my bets"--if I'm less available to him, making other plans, etc., do you think he might realize he misses me? Has anyone been in a situation where that was the case?

 

I wouldn't hedge. If you value remaining friends, remain friends. I think a watched pot won't boil though, so don't be friends to "hedge you bets". And don't do things to make him jealous. Just be friends and appreciate that while you move on in the area of romance.

 

 

 

After reading everyone's posts this morning, I figured that as long as I was online I'd post on a dating site. Got quite a few responses and answered some. I figure that it's best to keep busy and give myself plenty of reminders that he's not the only man in the world, even if my broken heart insists he is.

 

I think you're learning a lesson many of us have. Reading and helping here can be cathartic. :-)

[Fancee]

Tell me how do you get so involved to the point of daydreaming his kids and everything when he is way over there and you way over here. How do you

do it? Why you so busy consume with your feelings and not paying attention to

if he is feeling you? I will tell you how.

This guy I liked he was the balm and sexy built and everything. I like his voice

and just everything. We laughed and I met his mother but something wasn't clicking with him. I couldn't feel him feeling me like that. He say he liked me with all manner of expressions. I knew he was just not that into me. We text sometime and hi but thats it. I don't answer any phones from him. I couldn't allow myself to be played

like that my ego is to big. I know he probably got girl who has his heart and love.

If he told me that he better mean it cause it will be the last time he would get to let me know he feel. But you got those girls out there that just keep on being around and the guy keep using her and sometimes she comes out a winner. Esp. if she is there

for him when the going get rough. I have told they called the love they earned.

Anything is possible when you love someone.

[birdie]

I think the lesson there is that there are no right or wrong answers a lot of the time, you have no control over another person, they don't have control over themselves. things change, people fall in and out of love. sometimes they just deal with their baggage and allow themselves to move on and build healthier relationships.

 

I don't stick around a guy if I don't see much of a future with him but there is a girl I know who is much more persistent and she finally moved in with the man she chased after for years. anything is possible like you said.

[lindya]

he "doesn't hurt when I'm not around" like his buddies do for their new sweethearts. He says he's only felt that "hurt" twice before--both in cases where the relationships were short-lived and doomed from the start because the women in question were moving shortly.

 

Three indicators of problem areas packed into two sentences there.

 

1. He thinks love should hurt

2. He uses his buddies' relationships as a model for what he should have

3. He's giving you a "you're not special to me, because I don't feel infatuated by you" message.

 

You sound like a pretty level-headed person, Kerewin. It would be a pity to start letting your mind get in any way messed up by a guy who won't regard you as special unless you bring drama, doom and pain into the relationship. Just for fun (I don't expect you to take my advice here) this is what I'd love you to do.

 

1. Buy a small picture of some mask-wearing, whip-wielding dominatrix. If you can find one that resembles you slightly, all the better.

2. Scribble "happy hunting. Love Kerewin :)" on it. Wrap it up in pretty paper.

3. Meet him for coffee. Tell him you've been having a think about things and you feel it's a pity that he can only regard a woman as special when the situation with her is causing him some kind of pain. That if you ever find yourself with the urge to don a pair of spiked stilletoes and walk up and down his back in them, you'll be giving him a call. Then chuck him the wrapped up domme picture, get up, put your coat on and walk away for good.

 

That way, you'd giving him a taste of the drama he gets off on - and you're also walking away with dignity intact....and in a better frame of mind to meet someone who appreciates you just the way you are, without the need for games and drama.

[jophil28]

Three indicators of problem areas packed into two sentences there.

 

1. He thinks love should hurt

2. He uses his buddies' relationships as a model for what he should have

3. He's giving you a "you're not special to me, because I don't feel infatuated by you" message.

 

You sound like a pretty level-headed person, Kerewin. It would be a pity to start letting your mind get in any way messed up by a guy who won't regard you as special unless you bring drama, doom and pain into the relationship. Just for fun (I don't expect you to take my advice here) this is what I'd love you to do.

 

1. Buy a small picture of some mask-wearing, whip-wielding dominatrix. If you can find one that resembles you slightly, all the better.

2. Scribble "happy hunting. Love Kerewin :)" on it. Wrap it up in pretty paper.

3. Meet him for coffee. Tell him you've been having a think about things and you feel it's a pity that he can only regard a woman as special when the situation with her is causing him some kind of pain. That if you ever find yourself with the urge to don a pair of spiked stilletoes and walk up and down his back in them, you'll be giving him a call. Then chuck him the wrapped up domme picture, get up, put your coat on and walk away for good.

 

That way, you'd giving him a taste of the drama he gets off on - and you're also walking away with dignity intact....and in a better frame of mind to meet someone who appreciates you just the way you are, without the need for games and drama.

 

This is reply is ranting paranoid nonsense borne from that famous female 'victim' mindset.- the guy is merely telling you that his INTEREST LEVEL is dropping to somewhere around 4 on a scale of 1 to 10. This is not a character defect or a criminal offense .He is entitled to feel whatever he feels. Tough break- but it happens to all of us sometime.

Demonizing the guy is pathetic .

[lindya]

This is reply is ranting paranoid nonsense borne from that famous female 'victim' mindset.- the guy is merely telling you that his INTEREST LEVEL is dropping to somewhere around 4 on a scale of 1 to 10. This is not a character defect or a criminal offense .He is entitled to feel whatever he feels. Tough break- but it happens to all of us sometime.

Demonizing the guy is pathetic .

 

What a ridiculous over-reaction. Grow up.

[Kerewin]

I like what a lot of you are saying, especially the bit about him being someone who thinks "love has to hurt". That REALLY rings true. He's told me in the past that a lot of his exes are "crazy". I jokingly said "lots of crazy exes says more about you than them, I think". And he agreed, but also added "that's in the past, I've figured out that's not the way to go". I told him I was happy about that, because I wasn't going to "skip any skillets at your head to satisfy your need for crazy". He was also really critical of his mom's behavior in her relationships with men: "She'll do anything to make sure you feel like you love her and need her". He thought that behavior was manipulative, and yet, when he finally tells me what he's looking for, it's a variation on the same thing! As far as the "love hurting thing". Well. I've been calling friends --men and women-- a lot (to keep from calling him) and since many of them are happily married, I asked how they knew their partners were "the one". ALL of them said it was when they found someone where there was no drama and real friendship. The kind of comfortable, solid place I thought WE were in. I asked about the "hurt" thing, and one friend said "I finally learned that butterflies in my stomach is a sign of fear, not love!" Kind of where my head was at too, but still, it was SO good to get confirmation. As far as the dominatrix suggestion goes, I laughed myself silly over that (tho I won't do it)---so thank you for the smile! At this point, tho, my head and heart still don't agree. My head says, "you can't change anyone", my heart says "he'll HAVE to realize he's making a mistake". So, hearing from folks on this board is a REAL help. Thank you.

[Krytie TV]

I just think people make a habit of putting the blinders on and trudging in relationships that frankly don't seem to warrant it. It's only been 4 months... that's nothing. Why the need to hold on tight and work so hard at something that really doesn't get any easier? Why do we so often settle for these kinds of situations when there are so many better ones that require much less convincing?

[Kerewin]

Well, Kyrtie, (or is it Krytie?, apologies for any misspelling). What your saying is coming from a "head" place, and that's not where I am--yet. I'll get there, sure. But it's not something one can be talked into. I'm doing what you're supposed to do to try to get over him-- keeping busy, trying to think of his negative traits instead of focusing on his positive ones, trying to meet new people, looking for support in staying positive. But still, I need to honor my feelings too. Also, I know from my own romantic history, the length of the relationship hasn't been a factor for me in how long it takes to get over things. Some long relationships have taken a long time to get over; others not. Some short relationships have taken a moment to get over; others not. While he was letting me know where things stood with us, a little voice in me said "This one's going to hurt like hell." And part of that hurt is that powerlessness, knowing that if we'd met at a different time, when he'd had a chance to play out that infatuation thing with another girl until it ran it's course, this might not be happening (NB: I said "might", I know there's no guarantee.). The most desperate part of me still fights the temptation to create the kind of drama that sparks his interest; the rest of me, that knows that's NOT the kind of love I want long term, won't let that happen. So, again, I appreciate people's interest and support; it's been immeasurably helpful (and helps keep me from bugging my friends endlessly).

[Phateless]

One of my favorite ideals about love comes from a hip hop song. Common - The Light. The line is "I want to be the one who makes you the happiest and hurts you the most"

 

That always resonated with me...