complicatedlife Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 In regards to my thread yesterday, we have an upcoming weekend wedding to go to that is away. We have both decided to be platonic because he want to try and work things out - do you think we can REALLY be platonic during that weekend?
GreenEyedLady Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 In regards to my thread yesterday, we have an upcoming weekend wedding to go to that is away. We have both decided to be platonic because he want to try and work things out - do you think we can REALLY be platonic during that weekend? I guess it's up to you...I personally don't see it happening just because I'm pretty cynical now... And I thought this got lost in the shuffle... Are you wanting it to be platonic or not?
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 Nope. I think you know in your heart that if he gets you alone, takes you in his arms, and kisses you passionately, that 'platonic' would fly right out the door (not that it was ever really there to begin with). It sounds like you are confusing 'platonic' with 'we aren't actually having sex'. Platonic is what you feel when there are no romantic or passionate feelings, latent, denied or otherwise. What you and MM have is far from platonic. Whether or not you end up in a moment of passion is up to you. If he tries, will you say no? The answer to that is your answer.
jesssica Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 Nope. In cases like this, there is no middle ground, no platonic "just friends," no moderation. It's all or nothing. Full-on-blinding-ecstasy or absolutely-no-never-ever-contact. Do you both have the willpower and strength? If he doesn't, then it's even going to be hard if not IMPOSSIBLE; you need to get out of this situation... NOW and FAST. Or else you'll just fall back into the cycle and be everything that you have always feared.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 GreenEyedLady, I have mixed feelings about the platonic thing. I want to do that because it's the right thing to do, but of course, I do still care about him in a non-platonic way, and I'm sure he feels that way, too...but we both feel that we care about and respect each other enough to try and do our best in support of what is right.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 Nope. I think you know in your heart that if he gets you alone, takes you in his arms, and kisses you passionately, that 'platonic' would fly right out the door (not that it was ever really there to begin with). It sounds like you are confusing 'platonic' with 'we aren't actually having sex'. Platonic is what you feel when there are no romantic or passionate feelings, latent, denied or otherwise. What you and MM have is far from platonic. Whether or not you end up in a moment of passion is up to you. If he tries, will you say no? The answer to that is your answer. Lucrezia: you may be right. The physical part of our relationship is over. He is in support of being friends more than I am - I would like to be friends but I am thinking that he needs space to give what he is trying to do the best chance. I don't think he will try anything as he is very aware of his feelings and physical attraction towards me; he says we should try to not be together as much during the weekend so that we are dealing with less temptation.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 Nope. In cases like this, there is no middle ground, no platonic "just friends," no moderation. It's all or nothing. Full-on-blinding-ecstasy or absolutely-no-never-ever-contact. Do you both have the willpower and strength? If he doesn't, then it's even going to be hard if not IMPOSSIBLE; you need to get out of this situation... NOW and FAST. Or else you'll just fall back into the cycle and be everything that you have always feared. Jesssica: Actually, I think we both have a lot of will power and strength.
OWoman Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 GreenEyedLady, I have mixed feelings about the platonic thing. I want to do that because it's the right thing to do, but of course, I do still care about him in a non-platonic way, and I'm sure he feels that way, too...but we both feel that we care about and respect each other enough to try and do our best in support of what is right. CL I think you're going to find that "platonic", while you're still in the throes of passion, just heightens the passion stuff. The same way that sex therapists tell couples to keep their hands off each other when they're having problems, until the attraction goes through the roof and they just can't anymore? You'll sit there and look at each other with desire smouldering in your eyes, and even if you manage to last out the weekend, you'll be chewing through your wrists with frustration.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 CL I think you're going to find that "platonic", while you're still in the throes of passion, just heightens the passion stuff. The same way that sex therapists tell couples to keep their hands off each other when they're having problems, until the attraction goes through the roof and they just can't anymore? You'll sit there and look at each other with desire smouldering in your eyes, and even if you manage to last out the weekend, you'll be chewing through your wrists with frustration. OWoman: Hmm..I agree, but I am not feeling very "passionate" towards him these days. I still have my emotional attachment, but the physical part, for me, is buried under regret, trying to do what's right, a little touch of anger, and a little bit of resentment.
Trimmer Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 CL - Is the wedding friends of yours or his, or both? Might any other friends of yours or his be there, ones who might mention you to his wife? ( I take it she is not aware of you? ) Regardless of how "friend-like" you are acting and how much he is trying to do the right thing and protests that he didn't separate because of you, just the revelation that he attended a wedding escorting a woman would probably provide some serious fireworks at his next counseling session. And don't underestimate the emotional impact that being at a wedding together may have on you. The ceremony, the ritual, the intensity of the feelings - it may all amplify whatever feelings you are having at the time. You may slump down into your regret and anger, or you may be stirred by your passion. A long time ago, my wife and I went to a wedding some time after she ended an affair, and we both ended up sitting there crying during the service, because it exposed both of our still very raw feelings about our relationship... he says we should try to not be together as much during the weekend so that we are dealing with less temptation. Is there a compelling reason that you both have to go and expose yourselves to this temptation together, as opposed to the "less-connected" one of you bowing out, or just not going at all? If your relationship as lovers is just recently over, and he's still doing counseling with his wife, then this is proabaly an especially difficult time to cultivate a friendship - everything is just too raw.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 CL - Is the wedding friends of yours or his, or both? Might any other friends of yours or his be there, ones who might mention you to his wife? ( I take it she is not aware of you? ) Regardless of how "friend-like" you are acting and how much he is trying to do the right thing and protests that he didn't separate because of you, just the revelation that he attended a wedding escorting a woman would probably provide some serious fireworks at his next counseling session. And don't underestimate the emotional impact that being at a wedding together may have on you. The ceremony, the ritual, the intensity of the feelings - it may all amplify whatever feelings you are having at the time. You may slump down into your regret and anger, or you may be stirred by your passion. A long time ago, my wife and I went to a wedding some time after she ended an affair, and we both ended up sitting there crying during the service, because it exposed both of our still very raw feelings about our relationship... Is there a compelling reason that you both have to go and expose yourselves to this temptation together, as opposed to the "less-connected" one of you bowing out, or just not going at all? If your relationship as lovers is just recently over, and he's still doing counseling with his wife, then this is proabaly an especially difficult time to cultivate a friendship - everything is just too raw. Trimmer: The wedding we are attending is for my friend - he knows them now through me, and there's a sort of "budding" relationship between the groom and him (I am friends with the groom). I highly doubt that he would bring up the fact that he escorted me in his MC session- and I know that everything is now supposed to be about honesty, which makes me wonder if he will tell her about me. I don't think so, but I wonder... The wedding is far away - meaning there are airline tickets in hand - money spent, etc. We do WANT to go together, but we are also aware that with the fact that because he starts counseling this week, it very well may not be appropriate, even though he no longer lives at home. We're both not sure what to do. One of my girlfriends said, "Just because the two of you will be in separate rooms doesn't mean 'nothing' can and/or will happen."
OWoman Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 Trimmer: The wedding we are attending is for my friend - he knows them now through me, and there's a sort of "budding" relationship between the groom and him (I am friends with the groom). I highly doubt that he would bring up the fact that he escorted me in his MC session- and I know that everything is now supposed to be about honesty, which makes me wonder if he will tell her about me. I don't think so, but I wonder... The wedding is far away - meaning there are airline tickets in hand - money spent, etc. We do WANT to go together, but we are also aware that with the fact that because he starts counseling this week, it very well may not be appropriate, even though he no longer lives at home. We're both not sure what to do. One of my girlfriends said, "Just because the two of you will be in separate rooms doesn't mean 'nothing' can and will happen." If he really wanted to be your friend, he'd hand over the tickets to you and suggest you ask someone else to go along with you. OK, maybe I'm naive, but it would be easy enough for him to make his excuses politely to the groom and bride, and for you to bring on a last-minute substitute in view of the "sudden urgent crises" that came up for him. He stands to lose nothing by doing that. And possibly gain your respect, and your trust in him as a REAL friend.
Trimmer Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 I highly doubt that he would bring up the fact that he escorted me in his MC session- and I know that everything is now supposed to be about honesty, which makes me wonder if he will tell her about me. I don't think so, but I wonder. No, I doubt it too, but I was wondering if there was any possibility that any other mutual friends would be there who might tell it to his wife. It doesn't sound likely, if the wedding folks are friends of yours who live far away, and your MM knows them only through you. So I take it that she doesn't know anything about his past or current relationship with you?
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 If he really wanted to be your friend, he'd hand over the tickets to you and suggest you ask someone else to go along with you. OK, maybe I'm naive, but it would be easy enough for him to make his excuses politely to the groom and bride, and for you to bring on a last-minute substitute in view of the "sudden urgent crises" that came up for him. He stands to lose nothing by doing that. And possibly gain your respect, and your trust in him as a REAL friend. OWoman: Well, maybe I should be the one to do that. But I cannot be dishonest - I do WANT to go with him. I was trying to figure out a way to do it to cause the least amount of harm, but I'm not sure if that's possible.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 No, I doubt it too, but I was wondering if there was any possibility that any other mutual friends would be there who might tell it to his wife. It doesn't sound likely, if the wedding folks are friends of yours who live far away, and your MM knows them only through you. So I take it that she doesn't know anything about his past or current relationship with you? Trimmer: No, his wife would never know as they are all my friends. And, no, she doesn't know. He was going to tell her, but he asked my opinion, and I told him not to do it because of his custody arrangement.
GreenEyedLady Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 OWoman: Well, maybe I should be the one to do that. But I cannot be dishonest - I do WANT to go with him. I was trying to figure out a way to do it to cause the least amount of harm, but I'm not sure if that's possible. I really think you're torturing yourself because you don't want the R to end but you don't want to feel like a bad person... If you continue seeing him on a platonic level, you're going to fall...You'll wind up back in the A... If you truly don't want to be with him while he's R his M, you shouldn't see him at all...Even though that hurts, that's better than torturing yourself by being faced with him everyday...The lesser hurt, IMO... And there's always the choice of just being with him, no matter what...I know that's probably the scariest choice of all...Then you have to acknowledge alot of things you thought you knew about yourself...And I know that, because I've done it...Know your strengths, your weaknesses and what you can live with and without...It's different for everyone... Just be honest with yourself...We'll support you no matter what you choose... GEL
Trimmer Posted October 8, 2007 Posted October 8, 2007 No, his wife would never know as they are all my friends. And, no, she doesn't know. He was going to tell her, but he asked my opinion, and I told him not to do it because of his custody arrangement. Understood. Do you know how he will explain being out of town? (Not that it's your job to be concerned, I'm just trying to get a feel for how much he is having to keep you under wraps in his life...) Do you believe he is really giving reconciliation an honest try, or is he just showing up to say that he did it? If you continue seeing him on a platonic level, you're going to fall...You'll wind up back in the A... Remember what I said about the emotional intensity of a wedding. You can't even be sure which direction it will take you, but they can rub any raw nerves you have out there. Plus, you are physically far away, so you will feel somewhat disconnected from that other life you live, back home. If you are worried about "temptation", this is probably one of the most dangerous venues you could put yourself into. Just be honest with yourself... Very important; always very good advice.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 I really think you're torturing yourself because you don't want the R to end but you don't want to feel like a bad person... If you continue seeing him on a platonic level, you're going to fall...You'll wind up back in the A... If you truly don't want to be with him while he's R his M, you shouldn't see him at all...Even though that hurts, that's better than torturing yourself by being faced with him everyday...The lesser hurt, IMO... And there's always the choice of just being with him, no matter what...I know that's probably the scariest choice of all...Then you have to acknowledge alot of things you thought you knew about yourself...And I know that, because I've done it...Know your strengths, your weaknesses and what you can live with and without...It's different for everyone... Just be honest with yourself...We'll support you no matter what you choose... GEL GEL: I don't want it to end, but for now, until he gets off of his rollercoaster emotional ride, that's what's best for me. Am I naive to believe that we can't go back to being platonic? We were just friends for many months before we became involved. And true..I might fall, but I don't think he will. He's pretty strong in that way. Well, I hope he doesn't! He really is one of my best and closest friends - I don't know if in actual reality I want to give that up. But the emotional aspect, as well as the moral one, makes it really hard.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 8, 2007 Author Posted October 8, 2007 Understood. Do you know how he will explain being out of town? (Not that it's your job to be concerned, I'm just trying to get a feel for how much he is having to keep you under wraps in his life...) Do you believe he is really giving reconciliation an honest try, or is he just showing up to say that he did it? Remember what I said about the emotional intensity of a wedding. You can't even be sure which direction it will take you, but they can rub any raw nerves you have out there. Plus, you are physically far away, so you will feel somewhat disconnected from that other life you live, back home. If you are worried about "temptation", this is probably one of the most dangerous venues you could put yourself into. Very important; always very good advice. Trimmer: Out of town- he told me that he told her he was going out of town to visit some friends and he needed to get away for a few days. She was annoyed with it but told him to do what he needed to do. Reconciliation- that one is hard. She had been asking to go to MC when he told her he wanted to leave months ago. He kept saying no. Then he went from "no" to "maybe it's the right thing to do because she is asking" to "maybe I moved out too soon, now I'm not sure how I feel about her but it still may not work but I miss my children too much". All of those feelings happened over the course of 12 days! I couldn't deal. In my honest opinion, I think the guilt he feels towards her, combined with the split custody outweighs his need to do what he needs and should do to be happy. Which is not even having a relationship with me, but having some true space from her, from me, and some alone time. Because...if he REALLY was 100% sure he wanted to reconcile, wouldn't he lose all contact with me?
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