popey Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 I recently felt like I maybe wasn't giving enough effort towards my bf's overall happiness, and decided that I would put my mind to it more. So tonight we had plans to go out to dinner (which he doesn't dislike, but really its my pleasure. He could just as soon eat at a tavern type place, or just order in.) After working late I realized that I wouldn't be ready to go until later, and he gets very hungry. So I called him at 6:30 and told him and offered to skip dinner. Suggesting that he could go to his buddy's bar (he loves it. I do not.) And have dinner there with his friends, and then come over and watch a movie around 8:30. He was pleased. Then at 8:00 I called him and he said he was having fun with lots of friends there. So I said that I was relaxed and fine, so if he wanted to stay longer and watch some of the game, that's fine. Come around 9/9:30. Then at 8:45 he called to check on timing. I said, I did not feel sleepy at all, and I'm fine, so if he's enjoying himself, its fine with me if he would like to stay a little longer. We can watch the movie around 10/10:30. At 9:40 he calls me and says "Can I stay down here tonight?" (we live about 1/2 hour apart, and the bar is about 10 minutes drive from him.) He doesn't understand why I'm pissed. If we didn't have plans, TOTALLY different story. (btw- nothing special about his friends being there. He will be in that very bar, with those very friends tomorow like he is every sunday during football season.) WE had plans. I tried to be accomodating to him, and as a result, he now doesn't even want to come here?! wtf is that?! I really don't understand. I don't want to be like this, but it really feals like if I make an effort for him, I get slammed for it. I am hurt, that as a consequence of me encouraging him to enjoy his friends, and stupid bar; I'm made to feel irrelevant and 2nd priority. wtf just happened?
Lyssa Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 Ooh that's pretty shady, sorry to say. You have made an effort, in fact you even suggested the bar to him knowing that you don't like that place. When something like this happens, for some guys - it's hard for them to comprehend why we are pissed. Did you tell him that he made you feel like a 2nd priority?
curiousnycgirl Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 Wait a minute, yes you had plans, but YOU were the one who changed/canceled them. Once you turned the plans into fly by the seat of your pants, vs. something set in stone (or at least in pen) - you made your expectations very unclear. Sorry I don't think you are being fair here. If you really wanted to do something he would like, then why not join him at the bar with his friends vs. expecting him to come watch movie with you? Had you not been running late, would you still have changed/canceled your plans with him? Feels to me like it was just convenient to you to suggest something he would like - because you wouldn't have made the original plans anyway. Also had he been drinking at the bar watching the game? If so perhaps he wasn't in the best shape to drive to the half hour to your house. Perhaps I am misreading what you wrote above, but frankly I don't understand why you are angry.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 To Lyssa: absolutely. He kept insisting that he doesn't understand the big deal, b/c he thought I was ok with it, and b/c if the roles were reveresed he says he wouldn't mind at all, and would just want me to have a good time. Here's what kills me: he says he noticed and appreciated my effort, and after calling one time and me saying "I'm cool, stay later since I'm not sleepy, and we can start the movie later." He went back into the bar lauding to his friends how awesome I am being so cool and all. AND THE RESULT IS: I appreciate her so much for considering that I'd like to hang with friends at the bar a bit that it makes me want to stay at the bar with my friends ALL NIGHT and not even go to her at all?! I honestly don't get that.
Timberlane Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 Popey, you practically led your boyfriend into that situation by suggesting the bar and basically canceling your plans for dinner with him. To be pissed now is not right. Next time don't fudge the plans and give him outs. Of course both of you need to develop the plan. Sounds like you gave permission to have a night out without you. But the heart of the matter really is this, you wish he would have preferred to spend the night with you rather than just stay with his bar buddies. I would feel the same way.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 Wait a minute, yes you had plans, but YOU were the one who changed/canceled them. Once you turned the plans into fly by the seat of your pants, vs. something set in stone (or at least in pen) - you made your expectations very unclear. Sorry I don't think you are being fair here. If you really wanted to do something he would like, then why not join him at the bar with his friends vs. expecting him to come watch movie with you? Had you not been running late, would you still have changed/canceled your plans with him? Feels to me like it was just convenient to you to suggest something he would like - because you wouldn't have made the original plans anyway. Also had he been drinking at the bar watching the game? If so perhaps he wasn't in the best shape to drive to the half hour to your house. Perhaps I am misreading what you wrote above, but frankly I don't understand why you are angry. I think I was unclear. I wasn't running late, the time wasn't set. I just knew that this would cause us to have to go to dinner later, which he would do, but not he does get hungry. I would still go to dinner, but it just was less of a priority at this point, so I figured let him go with his friends for awhile. We DID have set plans, after they changed, which was for him to go to the bar for awhile and then come to my place to watch a movie. And those expectations were discussed. As for him drinking too much to drive, that seems like a pretty ****ty thing to do to your gf for her being thoughtful and offering first, before coming over to watch a movie. If you can't control your alcohol intake when going to the bar, then I guess you ought not go to the bar when you have committed to drive somewhere else after, no? and as for going to the bar with him, I do this a couple times a month. Its not like I do not. Does this make more sense now?
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 Popey, you practically led your boyfriend into that situation by suggesting the bar and basically canceling your plans for dinner with him. To be pissed now is not right. Next time don't fudge the plans and give him outs. Of course both of you need to develop the plan. Sounds like you gave permission to have a night out without you. But the heart of the matter really is this, you wish he would have preferred to spend the night with you rather than just stay with his bar buddies. I would feel the same way. yes, that is ABSOLUTELY the heart of the matter, but not the only matter. I have no problem with the fact that sometimes, he really does want to be at the bar with his friends. Of course that's SO normal, and I have the same wants with my friends. But basically, what happened here is I'm being told in so many words, that if I feel like the opportunity for him to spend a little time with them BEFORE our plans; I can't offer it, b/c the result is: give me time with beer and buddies, and I will never want to leave for you?! I was honest, sincere and happy he was enjoying himself all along. Did not mind if he wanted to stay a little longer (expressing "since i'm not feeling like I"ll get too sleepy to watch the movie a little later). Just when it turned into: I want to stay down here tonight.
Timberlane Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 If your BF is one to overindulge with the beer at the buddy get togethers, then no, you don't want him going there first before seeing you. Nothing like a drunk wandering in late smelling of alcohol. I had a GF back in college that did that. Blah.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 he can over indulge or not. seen him do both plenty. It seems to me like Timber and Curious are suggesting that I am in the wrong for offering to him that he can meet up with his friends for a bit first if he likes, and still expecting him to show up for the movie like planned. Am I getting you guys right? this seems crazy. "If you want your man to show, don't give him any flexibility girl. Keep that leash tight!" I don't want that. Does anyone?
Darkzen Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 You're being overly sensitive here. My ex went out drinking on her birthday a couple years ago and I had made plans for dinner, but didn't tell her because I wanted it to be a surprise. She didn't call and tell me she was going drinking with friends from work. She got home way too late to go to dinner. I was disappointed in the situation, but didn't get mad at her... although, she would bring up every little instance that she was disappointed/mad. In-fact, on one such argument she wanted to bring up a few things that I did to hurt her feelings... any idea what she did when I told her about the many times that she hurt my feelings, doing the same exact things? She shut her mouth. Understanding and communication is the key to a good relationship. Be understanding, put yourself in his shoes for a minute (without your rose-colored glasses). You wanted attention and got mad when he didn't drop everything to give it to you... I'm sure you've done the same thing to him before. He offered to see you when he was done, you didn't want to see him unless it was on your terms. Otherwise, you'd have made the effort to compromise. So yes, you're being a baby IMHO. You cry when you don't get what you want, the way you want it. An adult would have made it happen. If I'm thirsty, I don't complain about it... I go get a drink.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 You wanted attention and got mad when he didn't drop everything to give it to you... I'm sure you've done the same thing to him before. He offered to see you when he was done, you didn't want to see him unless it was on your terms. Otherwise, you'd have made the effort to compromise. NO, you're not getting it. THAT'S just it. HE DIDN'T offer to see me when he was done. THAT IS THE VERY POINT. And it WAS an effort to compromise... 3 times... "go see your friends till 8, then come over... ok stay till 9 , then come over... ok stay till 10:30, then come over no problem." And then he called saying he didn't want to come at all. And its not like he had plans to be with them, and I just wanted him to come over. IT WAS US WHO HAD PLANS. Sometimes he has plans with his friends, and says he'll be coming home early, I might say, "cool, if so we'll get together then." If he ends up not wanting to leave early, I DO NOT get mad at that. TOTALLY different scenario. Here, I am punished and dismissed for having said, on the night we have plans, "its ok with me if you want to meet up with the guys for a bit first." I HONESTLY can't understand why it makes me a baby, or unreasonable for being hurt/pissed when the response to that ends up, "I'd rather stay with my friends all night then keep my plans with you." seriously, if someone can make my understand what I"m not getting, that would be great. I'd rather figure out that I am wrong here, then have to remain under the conclusion that my bf is selfish and thoughtless.
Timberlane Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 he can over indulge or not. seen him do both plenty. It seems to me like Timber and Curious are suggesting that I am in the wrong for offering to him that he can meet up with his friends for a bit first if he likes, and still expecting him to show up for the movie like planned. No, just don't be ambiguous like you were. Tell him, "Hey, I want you to have fun with your friends, but I sure would like to see you tonight and not too late." If he chooses then to stay out, then he's being a jerk I would say.
sb129 Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 I think you should let this one go. You should choose your battles re:what you fight about, and you have given your BF mixed messages regarding this situation. I have been in the situation where I was out catching up with a few friends over drinks and it got a little later and then a little later, and I made sure I let WB know what was going on and he was cool with that. He likes to go out with his buddies, sometimes I go, sometimes I don't, sometimes I meet up with them later, or go with him and leave him there and go do something else. If you want to be flexible, you need to be prepared for the other person to change plans too- you changed the plans first, your BF got the message that plans for that night were different to the original plan, so he probably thought it would be OK for him to change them a little too. Personally, I would let this one go, otherwise you are going to "undo" all the good work you did by being cool with him to go to the bar instead of out to dinner, he will start to think that you aren't actually flexible after all. I know how you feel- but there needs to be a bit of give and take and allowance for loosely made plans to change sometimes. If it had been a fixed date, or a wedding, or a dinner party or something he was trying to get out of then that would be different.
Darkzen Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 NO, you're not getting it. THAT'S just it. HE DIDN'T offer to see me when he was done. THAT IS THE VERY POINT. And it WAS an effort to compromise... 3 times... "go see your friends till 8, then come over... ok stay till 9 , then come over... ok stay till 10:30, then come over no problem." And then he called saying he didn't want to come at all. And its not like he had plans to be with them, and I just wanted him to come over. IT WAS US WHO HAD PLANS. Ok, misread your first post. I thought he asked if you'd come down to him, no that he was asking permission to not see you. I HONESTLY can't understand why it makes me a baby, or unreasonable for being hurt/pissed when the response to that ends up, "I'd rather stay with my friends all night then keep my plans with you." You're being a baby because you're not being understanding. You want what you want, when you don't get it... you get pissed off. Sure it would have been nice, but you turned it into something it wasn't. You sent him mixed messages and then when he didn't answer the "right" way, you blew up at him. seriously, if someone can make my understand what I"m not getting, that would be great. I'd rather figure out that I am wrong here, then have to remain under the conclusion that my bf is selfish and thoughtless. A) You weren't open with what you wanted from your BF. B) He responded in a manner that wasn't how you wanted him to and got mad at him for not being a F-ing mind reader. C) You don't seem to be a very understanding person, based on this situation and how you've responded to what some people have said. D) Put yourself in his shoes, he didn't do it intentionally to be a jerk-off... he just isn't a mind reader. E) Say what you want next time, be more direct and open... otherwise, you have no justification if you're disappointed in the results.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 A) You weren't open with what you wanted from your BF. 3 times I was OPEN to pushing the time back on our plans so he could stay with his friends longer. I'm not open minded if I don't say, "ok, no problem. whatever you want." to anything he might suggest no matter what? B) He responded in a manner that wasn't how you wanted him to and got mad at him for not being a F-ing mind reader. what mind reading? I said clearly "sure, stay longer. I definitely want you to come over, but 10/10:30 is fine with me." what requires mind reading? I said what I meant. C) You don't seem to be a very understanding person, based on this situation and how you've responded to what some people have said. I understand that he enjoys going to the bar with his friends. I understand that he goes every sunday, because he looks forward to it. I sometimes go there with him sunday or otherwise, and sometimes not. He goes to this bar with his friends at least twice a week ALWAYS. And I understand. I understood that he would rather go there then go to a fancy restaurant with me, so since it wasn't a big deal- I said go there first and then come over. This points to a person who is not understanding? Not saying I deserve a medal, but labeled a person who is not very understanding because I think it was wrong to cancell our plans? D) Put yourself in his shoes, he didn't do it intentionally to be a jerk-off... he just isn't a mind reader. I did put myself in his shoes. I gave it much thought, and it turns out that I've thought of everytime I stopped with friends prior to meeting him for our plans. Everytime, I was having a good time, and at the appropriate time said, "time to go guys. I have plans with SO." Its common courtesy and respect I think. E) Say what you want next time, be more direct and open... otherwise, you have no justification if you're disappointed in the results. I keep trying to tell you, I SAID WHAT I WANTED AND WAS DIRECT. I was fine with him going for a while, and fine with postponing the time for our plans, and also said clearly and distinctly, "I'm fine with making it later, but I still want you to come over."
Darkzen Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 I keep trying to tell you, I SAID WHAT I WANTED AND WAS DIRECT. I was fine with him going for a while, and fine with postponing the time for our plans, and also said clearly and distinctly, "I'm fine with making it later, but I still want you to come over." That's direct, open and honest... that's not what you described originally. What you said, initially, can be left open to interpretation. You were indirect, based on your first post. He interpreted it not the way you wanted and that is what I call, wanting him to read your mind. I understand that he enjoys going to the bar with his friends. I understand that he goes every sunday, because he looks forward to it. I sometimes go there with him sunday or otherwise, and sometimes not. He goes to this bar with his friends at least twice a week ALWAYS. And I understand. I understood that he would rather go there then go to a fancy restaurant with me, so since it wasn't a big deal- I said go there first and then come over. This points to a person who is not understanding? Not saying I deserve a medal, but labeled a person who is not very understanding because I think it was wrong to cancell our plans? This right here is the perfect example of why you're not understanding. **** happens. This doesn't mean you have to like or accept things that happen, just that you don't have control over them. He called and asked if he could stay home right? You could have told him that you really wanted to see him, rather than biting his head off. If he still would have wanted to stay home, giving you reasons why. You telling him "no problem", would be understanding. You wanted something and it didn't happen, so you lashed-out/complained... that's what babies and/or children do. Need any further explanations?
Krytie TV Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 Popey, this thread is just another of many examples where you simply want to be told you're right. I disagree with the fact that he is in the wrong. But I won't go any further because you're obviously not interested in anyone's thoughts that are different from yours. He checked up hourly and you said fine every time. You want him to change his behavior, be fair to him by not expecting him to read your mind. Argue away.
spookie Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 I get your side of it, I really do, and I have been in your shoes countless times with my ex-bf, but it really sounds like one motivation for your overreaction is that you WANT to get mad at him for something because you want to feel victimized or because you're craving drama. You can argue that you were understanding all you want, and though it looks like it's true, in my opinion you still insisted on getting what you want or getting mad. You wanted him to come over - so you "compromised" on the unimportant details (time) but still got pissed when you didn't get your way. On top of that, I think you did send mixed messages. First you changed the plans yourself - indicating that they were flexible. Then you acted like it was alright that he not come over right away - which was true, but from his POV it's easy to read that as "it's no big deal if I stay here tonight and hang out with her tomorrow." Even if you were being clear that you wanted him to come over, by compromising 4 times on the time you indicated to him that you were in a compromising mood, and he thought coming over or not was up in the air as well (which wasn't the case since time was irrelevent to you and you just wnated him to come over at some point). Don't get mad at your bf for this. It sounds like you really want to have a reason to - but this really isn't a good one. If there's something else bothering you, have a go at that - but don't just create problems where there aren't any. That's not a healthy way to build a relationship with someone.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 That's direct, open and honest... that's not what you described originally. What you said, initially, can be left open to interpretation. You were indirect, based on your first post. He interpreted it not the way you wanted and that is what I call, wanting him to read your mind. FIRST POST: ... called him at 6:30 and offered to skip dinner. ... have dinner there with his friends, and then come over and watch a movie around 8:30.... at 8:00 I called him and he said he was having fun with lots of friends there. So I said that I was relaxed and fine, so if he wanted to stay longer and watch some of the game, that's fine. He can come around 9/9:30..... 8:45 he called to check on timing. I said, I did not feel sleepy at all, and I'm fine, so if he's enjoying himself, its fine with me if he would like to stay a little longer. We can watch the movie around 10/10:30. What is indirect or unclear? You need to be a mind reader to know that when I say on EVERY call, "We will watch the movie later" That my expectation is that we will "watch the movie later?" What?! This right here is the perfect example of why you're not understanding. **** happens. This doesn't mean you have to like or accept things that happen, just that you don't have control over them. No, but HE had control over it. Are you suggesting that the only times I can count on my expectations being met by my partner are those in which I have sole control to prevent possible deviation? He called and asked if he could stay home right? You could have told him that you really wanted to see him, rather than biting his head off. You are right. I see your point here. Had I said that, I think he would've said, ok then. I'll leave in a bit. I was just very hurt by the whole juxtaposition I think (for me anyway.) I offered for him to see the friends FIRSTand then come to me, and really was not upset when the calls for delays came in. And I was happy that I felt I was succeeding at my intended desire; AND really believed that when he came over he would be really happy because of the added levity and flexibility he was afforded. (we've been fighting alot lately, if you can believe that one ) So the call asking to not come at all truly felt like a slap in the face, and honestly, I still feel it was; as he said that he noticed and appreciated my effort (on the heels of fighting and all)... so IMO, had he thought at all about it, he would conclude, "that was nice. now let me get over there and enjoy her." If he still would have wanted to stay home, giving you reasons why. You telling him "no problem", would be understanding. yes, I comprehend that this would be the most understanding stance one could take in the situation. But is it really the only reaction one can have w/o being determined a "not understanding person?" Seems awfully draconian, no? You wanted something and it didn't happen, so you lashed-out/complained... that's what babies and/or children do. I may have not handled it the best way possible. But, if you voice dissappointment when your expectations are dismissed, that means you are immature? Keep quiet and take what your given, or else your just an over-demanding baby? Need any further explanations? Yes! as if you didn't know. (phew)
Trialbyfire Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 I fall on the other side. I see evidence of wanting to control the situation, regardless of the attempt at flexibility. Either you remove the collar or not. Removing the collar but then, telling him to heel, makes no sense at all.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 Popey, this thread is just another of many examples where you simply want to be told you're right. I disagree with the fact that he is in the wrong. But I won't go any further because you're obviously not interested in anyone's thoughts that are different from yours. He checked up hourly and you said fine every time. You want him to change his behavior, be fair to him by not expecting him to read your mind. Argue away. Being wrong would be my preference. Its FAR less burdensome to be wrong, then to think your loved one is dismissive of you. (for me.) Debating does not imply disinterest with the opinions of the other debaters. Simply b/c I debate through stuff, and don't just say, "oh. some of you see it totally different then me? Then I must just be totally wrong, and should stop thinking. Some one with a different opinion than me has an answer. let me just run with that then." My desire to debate the matter with people who see it differently results in your concluded and asserting that you know what I want, and what I think, and what I disregard. Pretty Arrogant. Believe it or not, I actually appreciate the various responses, including - for instance Darkzen who i've been debating with back and forth. I find it all helpful, and consider it all quite a bit. But if your preference is to assess, judge and dismiss. your call.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 I get your side of it, I really do, and I have been in your shoes countless times with my ex-bf, but it really sounds like one motivation for your overreaction is that you WANT to get mad at him for something because you want to feel victimized or because you're craving drama. What would cause this in a person? (Seriously asking, not challenging.) I have a very competitive job which affords me plenty of outlet for excitement, strategy, and competition. My point being, that if I do do this, its not out of boredom. thing is, I know I over-reacted, but I was reacting to my genuine feelings.
Darkzen Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 What is indirect or unclear? You need to be a mind reader to know that when I say on EVERY call, "We will watch the movie later" That my expectation is that we will "watch the movie later?" What?! Seriously, watching the movie wasn't important, you wanting to spend time with him was. You didn't express this directly. In your jaded opinion (perspective), it might have been clear as day to you. That doesn't mean it makes sense to anyone else. I'm guilty of the same thing quite a lot myself. Probably why I get along with women more than other guys. No, but HE had control over it. Are you suggesting that the only times I can count on my expectations being met by my partner are those in which I have sole control to prevent possible deviation? No. I'm saying that if someone doesn't know what you expect... you cannot hold that against them. Besides, he wasn't disrespectful. He called and asked for permission to cancel. You are right. I see your point here. Had I said that, I think he would've said, ok then. I'll leave in a bit. I was just very hurt by the whole juxtaposition I think (for me anyway.) I offered for him to see the friends FIRSTand then come to me, and really was not upset when the calls for delays came in. And I was happy that I felt I was succeeding at my intended desire; AND really believed that when he came over he would be really happy because of the added levity and flexibility he was afforded. (we've been fighting alot lately, if you can believe that one ) So the call asking to not come at all truly felt like a slap in the face, and honestly, I still feel it was; as he said that he noticed and appreciated my effort (on the heels of fighting and all)... so IMO, had he thought at all about it, he would conclude, "that was nice. now let me get over there and enjoy her." Were you doing this for him or your own desires? I can also see why you guys fight a lot... the communication sucks. Like I said, you're expecting him to read your mind. Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't see things the same way you do. It's possible that he shows his appreciation for your effort, in other ways. In-fact, If you came at me the way you did him, I'd think you were being manipulative/controlling. That you were only being nice to get something out of me. People are supposed to do nice things for one another without seeking a reward. yes, I comprehend that this would be the most understanding stance one could take in the situation. But is it really the only reaction one can have w/o being determined a "not understanding person?" Seems awfully draconian, no? Draconian? LOL. There are no degrees of understanding, either you understand or you don't. How you react is a totally different animal. I.E. You do not understand this situation and it influenced you to react completely irrational. You're looking at things through your own perspective, how can you possibly understand why he didn't feel like coming over? You think it's because he's selfish and a jerk... I think it's because you didn't express your desire to see him clear enough (although, I haven't ruled out your outlook either). I don't know this person and won't judge him based on one side of the story. On the other hand, from what you've shown me thus far... I think you're over-dramatic and a bit of a child. I may have not handled it the best way possible. But, if you voice dissappointment when your expectations are dismissed, that means you are immature? Keep quiet and take what your given, or else your just an over-demanding baby? Voicing disappointment isn't one and same as getting mad at someone. Adults would talk about things, a child will become irrational and throw a tantrum. I never implied that you shouldn't speak up for yourself. Merely that the way you chose to do so was immature. Yes! as if you didn't know. (phew) Is that better or do I have to break it down even further? Maybe I can try baby-talk, if that will help.
Author popey Posted October 7, 2007 Author Posted October 7, 2007 Were you doing this for him or your own desires? I can also see why you guys fight a lot... the communication sucks. Like I said, you're expecting him to read your mind. Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't see things the same way you do. It's possible that he shows his appreciation for your effort, in other ways. In-fact, If you came at me the way you did him, I'd think you were being manipulative/controlling. That you were only being nice to get something out of me. People are supposed to do nice things for one another without seeking a reward. See your point(s) here. I definitely tried to put myself in his shoes, and gave it deep consideration, but still was literally considering what I would think if in his shoes. If he had my brain in his body, then his actions were thoughtless. But I think what you're suggesting is that I think, that if something he does hurts my feelings... first step should be to try to think like with his brain. And then think about if it still seems thoughtless and hurtful. That's hard, but a worthy point. As for the "reward" point. No, I wasn't doing it, expecting a reward, but rather felt punished for it, b/c my night was totally cancelled b/c I offered that he spend a little time with his friends first. The consequence it seems is that I now know that if I suggest its cool to meet with his friends before our plans, I have to be prepared for him not wanting to be with me that evening at all as a result. I think that's kind of sad. Draconian? LOL. There are no degrees of understanding, either you understand or you don't. How you react is a totally different animal. I.E. You do not understand this situation and it influenced you to react completely irrational. You're looking at things through your own perspective, how can you possibly understand why he didn't feel like coming over? You think it's because he's selfish and a jerk... I think it's because you didn't express your desire to see him clear enough (although, I haven't ruled out your outlook either). I don't know this person and won't judge him based on one side of the story. On the other hand, from what you've shown me thus far... I think you're over-dramatic and a bit of a child. The not understanding part addressed above. The irrational reaction was an involuntary mistake. Plain and simple- its a flaw. I'm very emotional, which comes out in positive ways too, but obviously negative ways as well. It's a personal flaw/challenge that I keep working on. Really don't think I crave drama, its just the emotional wiring I think. As for the childishness you suggest. Not sure, actually never have been told that before, so I have to give that more introspection. Maybe ask some friends. Is that better or do I have to break it down even further? Maybe I can try baby-talk, if that will help. Was this really necessary? And we were getting along so well.
Darkzen Posted October 7, 2007 Posted October 7, 2007 I was being facetious with my last comment. As for asking around, unless you have honest friends... I doubt they'll tell you that you act childish. Why would you feel punished for doing something, out of the kindness of your heart? Think that over a bit more, it really sounds like you're just twisting logic to me. You should feel pleased that he had a good night out with the boys, not punished because he chose not to see you afterwards. One is selfless and the other is selfish. The act of giving should be selfless. I'm a very direct person, I hate playing word and mind games (although I know quite well how to manipulate if I have to). I say what I mean and mean what I say. If you wanted him to come see you and spend time with you, ask him and I'm sure he'll comply. Don't skirt the issue and hope he picks up on your hints. That's not communication, it's playing games. I'm sure he's thinks this way also, based on the fact that you guys argue a lot. He cannot read your mind, nor does he think like you... this means that he probably doesn't pick up the hints you toss around. Then to him, "you bite his head off", coming from somewhere in left field. It all makes perfect sense to you though. Learn to communicate, I will guarantee that things get better between the two of you (or at least you'll find out sooner if you're meant to be together). It's love after all, not politics.
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