I asked him to stay and pretend while I get back on my feet...

[janedoe123]

hello.

 

I read some of your thread and just want you to know that I've felt that way before. In my head I just thought how much easier it was to sleep if he was laying beside me, how I could get up and actually accomplish things during the day if he pretended to be around again, because I was addicted. It was seriously like a drug that I wasn't ready to stop taking and the worst part was I NEEDED him. If he was around, I felt strong, then he would dissapear again and I would hit rock bottom. Not to mention the whole time I KNEW in my heart that he wasn't into it and it was taking away from my self esteme every day.

 

I am telling you that if you start having faith in yourself that you are a strong person and start living your life without him, you will be happy again, only this way, in the future, you won't 'need' someone to make you happy. And eventually, someone will come along that will want to be with you as much as you want to be with them - this will never happen if you keep your ex around, I promise that it will eat away at you every day if he is around because it is a constant reminder of him not being 100% sure, and that isn't fair. You deserve more than that.

[hot123]

 

Thanks 'hot123' for your breadth of vision and depth of wisdom.

 

He doesn't walk around 'hating' my children, he's very kind to them actually. He is not a monster because he doesn't want to be family guy. He is just a bit of a wimp for taking so long to figure it out and really really hurting me and the girls in the process.

 

But, having him around did help me get myself together over the weekend until my girlfriends could come to hang out with me.

Im sorry your right youre the visionary here -so deep and so wise...ffs gimme a complete BREAK!

[datingmum]

Thank you for your input. I appreciate your points of view. If I were a visionary, or knew it all, I wouldn't be posting on this site. I am, however, honest about my feelings. I suppose I take offence at your facile leap from the feelings I am having (which have nothing to do with my children being at harm or even feeling unloved in any way) to likening me to susan smith. In fact, it points up a lack of maturity on your part, and shows that you have not borne children - otherwise you would understand the offensive nature of your post.

 

 

This board is for gathering opinions of the general public - that is true, but it is also for sharing a common human wisdom. It is not about narrow, tiny minds making tiny, flippant remarks. When they are made, we all

[datingmum]

Just for those of you out there who were wondering.

 

I downloaded that Homer McDonald book "Stop your divorce" and read it before our 'pretend' hanging out Friday night. Man, those techniques worked so quickly. Hilarious, in a sick way.

 

In the end, I may find it boring to have to play cat and mouse for the rest of my life, gently coaxing a 'scared little animal' out of the corner. But at least it gave a boost to my self esteem. He kept bringing up WHY we were breaking up, and I kept agreeing with him ("We want different things (me: family, comittment, etc/him: 'freedom') and it was impossible to reconcile") then he kept defending me and going back on his words.

 

He said "Oh, it's not that we don't want the same things (marriage/family), i just don't want to be bullied into it." How crazy is this guy? He's been saying he didn't want to settle or 'have a family' every time we get into an argument or any of the times he's broken up with me! It seems the hurdles always change and the end game is always different.

 

Or maybe he has a valid point. Perhaps I was too dogmatic about marriage early on because I have two girls. Alphamale, ages ago, questioned this tendency in me, questioned why it was necessary. I suppose that I want to be with him in that way and I want him to honour me in that way too? Jesus, it's complicated. And when he didn't appear to 'commit' to the relationship, in many ways - not just the obvious 'getting married' - my insecurities starting acting up and I started becoming jealous and generally unhappy.

 

But the book helped me to see that I was doing myself no good, and that I was not doing the potential for fixing the relationship any good. I just need to 'stop working', accept myself as I am - nothing is wrong with wanting to make our relationship work, make our relationship healthy, make our relationshiop a real partnership, etc. My methods may have been wrong, but my sentiments are the same.

 

He's now begging me to 'just pretend' and I'm holding out, guys. I don't know what I'm holding out for.... ideas?

[Kasan]

What is it that you really want? I think if you really think about what you want, you know the answer.

 

Can you find it with him? Again you know the answer. There is no magic pill that is going to make this easy for you....but you know that too.

 

Should you choose him what is it going to take for him to be your partner and father to those girls? Should it be this hard? Do you want to work this hard? How much time are you willing to spend on this? What impact will this have on your girls?

 

Sorry about all the questions, it's kinda of my thing. I do it to myself all the time.

 

But I am awfully glad to hear that you are feeling better!!!! And I do believe that you really do know what you want to do!!!!

[hot123]

Thank you for your input. I appreciate your points of view. If I were a visionary, or knew it all, I wouldn't be posting on this site. I am, however, honest about my feelings. I suppose I take offence at your facile leap from the feelings I am having (which have nothing to do with my children being at harm or even feeling unloved in any way) to likening me to susan smith. In fact, it points up a lack of maturity on your part, and shows that you have not borne children - otherwise you would understand the offensive nature of your post.

 

 

This board is for gathering opinions of the general public - that is true, but it is also for sharing a common human wisdom. It is not about narrow, tiny minds making tiny, flippant remarks. When they are made, we all

I think that your involvement with someone who does not accept your children speaks volumes...nuff said

[datingmum]

is that he's gone back and forth. Clearly, I am walking and would always walk away from a relationshp where a man says he does not want to be a father like figure in my girls' lives. The problem is, he comes back and says "No, I really do want all these things... it's just that you x, y, z..." It's always back and forth.

 

The 'pretend' phase I was feeling earlier was just that, a phase where I felt that I needed him to hold me at night, to still 'love' me enough to help me practically in the ways that I thought I needed. See, I misunderstood that I don't actually need him, I just preferred that he wanted to be a part of my life. That, and my own insecurities arising from childhood, led me to feel distraught and devastated.

 

The pretending has worked to help me feel better, and now, I'm at home in my house feeling better, on my own.

[datingmum]

Hey, that was a great post. Good questions.

 

What do I want? A happy, stable, loving, romantic, exciting partnership/marriage with a man that loves, accepts and wants to nurture himself, me, and my children.

 

Can I get it with him? Truthful answer: I don't know. Is he right about my jealousy pushing us apart? I used to freak out because I'd catch him in little white lies about chatting with his exgf. I knew it was just the detritus of an old love, that his friendship with his ex was probably a good sign, but my big old ego got in the way. Then I started snooping for 'evidence' and I was 'proven' right. I started acting out, basically. So perhaps this did play a 50% part in our difficulties. Until I stop behaving in that way...

 

Or what about how I always let him know that "if a guy doesn't know he wants to marry a girl in 1 year, then she should walk away!" I was very 'sure' of in my cocky, naive views. I think I was obcene in a way, in how I used to present my case. Obcence because it belied my own insecurities - not pretty!

 

 

Which leads to how much work will it entail, should it be so hard, and what impact will it have on my children...

 

Just sitting here believing in myself, trying to be positive, trying to understand the part I played in the relalationship breaking down has made me feel immensely better. I am not experiencing anxiety attacks when I think of him leaving. I am not ANGRY that he is leaving. I feel as if a great weight has been lifted - the weight of my own fears. If he truly doesn't want to commit to my family, then this is the best thing. If he does want to commit, then he will overcome his issues and he and I will take a step toward one another.

 

Whatever the answer, it will involve work. I have learned one very important thing so far in my life: you meet people for a reason & you carry your problems wherever you go. i had the same pressure/insecurity issues in my first marriage. I thought it was too much 'hard work' to stay and overcome them and that it 'shouldn't be that hard'. I drew up a checklist of all the things I wanted ina new partner. I got those things with this guy. Except, i still brought my own crap. I still had lessons to learn. These are the lessons. Learn them now, or continue them over and over ad infinitum.

 

Don't know... maybe too much wine... (girls are at dad's for the night! )

[datingmum]

I was able to resist his request to be together the last few nights. He ended up coming over, running through all the reasons we'd broken up again. Rather than argue my perspective, I just agreed with him. These feelings are, for him at least, very real.

 

And to be honest, I could see how I'd played a big part in eroding the trust between us through being jealous, creating a divide in our partnership through irrational fears etc. He felt that he couldn't handle that on top of a stressful job, the challenges of a family, and personal issues with anxiety.

He said that he never really meant that he didn't want to spend the next 15 years raising my girls, to be a 'free spirit', etc. but he just wanted the pressure and the conflict and the pain to stop.

 

When he asked me to hang out, I didn't know what to do. I agree with him on some levels, but he also contributed significantly to our problems. Is this guy a commitment phobe, or is he a strong guy who's not willing to settle for something that is less than what it should be? I don't know if by not testing the waters again with him that I am punishing him or doing the right thing to heal me....

 

Even when I read my old posts, I can see how I pushed, how I wanted to be with him fully before he was ready. But does that mean I was wrong, or just that I wanted something he did not?

 

So many questions.

[Kasan]

Which leads to how much work will it entail, should it be so hard, and what impact will it have on my children...

 

Whatever the answer, it will involve work. I have learned one very important thing so far in my life: you meet people for a reason & you carry your problems wherever you go. i had the same pressure/insecurity issues in my first marriage. I thought it was too much 'hard work' to stay and overcome them and that it 'shouldn't be that hard'. I drew up a checklist of all the things I wanted ina new partner. I got those things with this guy. Except, i still brought my own crap. I still had lessons to learn. These are the lessons. Learn them now, or continue them over and over ad infinitum.

 

This to me is huge....you do drag the old stuff along with you if you don't resolve the issues. How can you start working on theses? You are right though, if this current relationship doesn't work out, you need to take some time out to learn these lessons.

 

Ahhhh....marriage is so freakin hard, it takes a lot of strength, courage and humility to stay involved in a marriage or even a long term relationship. You know that! So knowing that you have trust issues, why does your boyfriend tell you white lies? Don't men get the fact that if they tell you white lies why would you believe them on the important stuff? I can see why you react the way that you would.

 

I think you are assuming more of the responsibility of the relationship problems then you should. Has he admitted what he has contributed to the problems?

 

How long have you been with him again?

[datingmum]

A reasonable amount of time. Half my youngest daughter's life.

 

Yes, he has admitted lots of mistakes and personality problems as well. In fact, we focused alot on that before, maybe I deflected responsibility for my own stuff by concentrating on his issues. I don't even know anymore.

 

He tried to ring me about 6 times today. I didn't answer. He finally got me on the home phone, said he'd ring back...never did. Curious behaviour. I felt much better about this breakup when it appeared he wanted me back. Ha ha. I suppose that's the way it is.

 

I appear to have lost our engagement ring as well... wonder what that means?

[Kasan]

I appear to have lost our engagement ring as well... wonder what that means?

 

I am sorry you sentence made me laugh. I am sure that it is somewhere in your house renovations and you will find it soon.

 

So what is the issue of the white lies? You said that you snooped and was proven right. What is this about? Is the ex in the picture?

[datingmum]

If you go back and read my old posts, it's explained better. But basically, he'd been engaged before, but the relationship ended. he'd cancelled the wedding, she fell out of love with him, then he decided that he was lovelorn, and then was single for nearly 4 years. he's only had three serious relationships, including me. One in school, one in university, then me. So he was attached. This ex was from a small town where he lived, their mums still worked together, she still sat 2 rows behind him at the rugby games, still txted him like it was no big deal. Eventually, when I said I was uncomfortable, he introduced me to her. But it did no good. She was lonely and single at the time and kept wanting to jerk his chain to see if he'd react. First it was "oh, i have endemetriosis" then "oh, I have heart palpitations". Or just random **** at inappropriate times, when she KNEW we'd be together. I tried to say "stop this right now" but he just started working to hide the contact. I suspected it, because he starts twitching when he lies, so I looked at the phone/phone bills. Then I started setting snares to catch him in lies. This was wrong, but....

 

I knew in my heart that nothing serious was going on, just remnants of a relationship that had finished with no closure or understanding and he was lonely and sad after nearly 4 years on his own, romanticising the past before he met me. I knew in my soul that he was in love with me a little while after we met, but it killed me that he just wouldn't break it off and/or be honest. So, the final straw was that after he went to her house to tell her they could no longer be 'friends' - at my request of course, as a solution - we enjoyed 6 months of no contact with her. Until the night that he proposed to me. She knew he was bringing me to Venice to propose because she still drops by his brother's house (unbidden adn unwanted) and my partner's sis-in-law let slip where we were. She then txted, rang in teh morning etc. My partner didn't tell me, told me it was his best mate calling - ignored the call. But remember, he has a hard time telling a lie and always has a nervous tick when he feels uncomfortable. later, when he was holding his phone beside me, I saw her name. I flipped! I HATE being lied to! Yes, I would have been grumpy that she contacted him, but I would have gotten over it! We were just engaged! In Venice! Instead, he decided to 'protect' me, by telling a little white lie. It was very damaging. Our engagement was spoiled in that way. Neither of us was mature enough to deal with it, or get over it. So...thereafter, i started getting more and more paranoid. etc

 

It's not as simplified as I'm painting it, but you get the idea. Now, i would handle it differently. i would have just ignored it, been happy with him and I, and just focused on the positives, the love I knew I felt between us, not on my fears (oh my god, he still loves her). Now, they don't speak ever - but the irony is, I still talk to my ex as friends (i have no feelings for him whatsoever in that way) but we do have children.

 

double standards.

[datingmum]

Well, my ex rang last night to ask again if we could hang out. I said "Best not" and when he asked why I just stated that "we want different things" and that I'm always going to want to marry him etc because I love him in that way. I also addressed the issues I have, which do arise (severely at times), particularly so when I feel that the relationship is threatened/unstable.

 

He says that he only ever said all of these things about 'not wanting to raise children' etc in the heat of the moment, to get away and now regrets them.

 

He even rang me at 2am to say he couldn't sleep and ask, again, if he could just come and stay here. I said "no" again.

 

Then, this morning, the doorbell rings, I get out of bed and it's him at the door. He looks very sleep deprived and sheepish, but has dressed very well. We decide to pop out and have a coffee. We talked more. He still can't understand why marriage is so important to me. (Hello! He proposed already!!) He wonders why I can't just love him as he is and let it evolve.

 

So now, I'm questioning my own sanity.

 

Thoughts?

[Kasan]

So now, I'm questioning my own sanity. Thoughts?

 

Well, I can certainly see why you are questioning your sanity. This push pull dance that you are both involved in would make me feel the same way.

 

I am going to go and read your original thread.

[datingmum]

Lately, I've really held my ground not contacting him. He has still been calling/txting however. Sometimes I respond, other times I don't.

 

This weekend, he wanted to spend time together.

 

Him (txt) : Perhaps we could spend the weekend together as a way to resolve some of the questions posed...

 

Me (txt) : Has it really been enough time (1 week and a bit of not physically being around me) for you to have made any real conclusions?

 

Him (txt): Maybe...but I know we would have a great time together

 

Phone call: me annoyed, angry that we won't be able to spend time together because clearly, he has come to no resolutions over the issues that are still hanging inthe air (i want to be a family, get married, etc work together as a team)

 

Yesterday:

 

Him (phone msg) I'm sorry about last night, you don't need this negativity in your life. Please call me if you're feeling kind...

 

Me (txt): Hey, got your message. I love you in the most amazing ways, but I don't feel the vibes are right x

 

Him (txt): Thank you baby. You still amaze me all the time and can do things I can only dream of doing (I'm not really sure what he's referring to hear, other than holding my ground about not slip-sliding back into a sort of relationship with him without resolving issues). I just need to get my head, heart and soul to all walk in a straight line x

 

 

Since then, we've had no contact.

 

What does it all mean? Is this positive? Is this just more waffling?

 

I'm so lonely at home this weekend without my children (they're at dad's). All my girlfriends are away and I'm sitting here heartbroken. I SO want to just be having fun with him, but I feel that it could just be prolonging my agony and stopping him from coming to any real conclusions about what we are going to do: be together properly or say a final goodbye.

 

Any thoughts would be welcome....

[Kasan]

How much longer is this push-pull situation going to happen? He is definitely conflicted in what he wants to do.

 

I would help him along with the decision making process. I am wondering why you continue to let him treat this way. He wanted the break, so give him the break!

 

He needs to know what it will feel like to not have you in his life. Not having you available might give him some true clarity.

 

This is not fair to you at all--and I think that you know that. Again, I wonder why you let him do this to you.

 

I know that you love him, but he rejects you and your girls in his confusion. Do you really want to spend anymore time trying to interpret what he is thinking via phone calls and text messages? It is time for him to sh*t or get off the pot. You need to know where you stand so that you can get on with your life whether it's with him or not!

 

It will be alright you know!

[datingmum]

I thought that's what I was doing? By pulling back completely and refusing to hang out with him....

 

I don't understand...please slap me!

[Ssheena]

I don't like the way he is trying to put this on you and make excuses for his behavior.

 

Especially this part..."call me if you are feeling kind"? WTF? You have been nothing but kind to him. Given him who knows how many chances, told him straight up how you are feeling and what you want.

 

What is he willing to do for you and this relationship? "Oh, I really didn't mean it that way"...lovely. I think you are doing the right thing for yourself and I think he is actually showing you his true self right now.

 

You've accepted more than enough responsibility here, why can't he step up and take his share?

 

I know that you are feeling lonely. I'm right in the same boat with you there (except my kids are both gone out of the house and I'm adjusting to empty nest stuff) but I find myself not knowing what to do or where to go or how to go on. Watch movies, clean house, listen to music (that's it.. that always always works for me..put some of your favorite music on and dance around the house).

 

The ball is in his court. Let's see what he does with it besides screaming to the ref that it really was in when it was clearly out...

 

Good job Dating Mum!

[Kasan]

I thought that's what I was doing? By pulling back completely and refusing to hang out with him....

 

I don't understand...please slap me!

 

Here are the 180s from Michele Weiner-Davis, M.S.W. over at the Divorcebusting website. You can obviously change the text to reflect your situation.

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

 

 

 

Good luck!

[datingmum]

to do all of the things in that post. I'd already downloaded the 'stop your divorce' book, which had loads of these suggestions. But I just crave some sort of face-to-face reckoning. A real line in the sand sort of showdown. I guess i just need to change my perception to realise that this is what I'm doing, but in a less obvious way.

 

I'm freaking out today. Yet another day in front of the computer. I'm just so fed up. this is SO HARD !!!!! WHINE