traingirl Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Let me start by saying please don't judge me. My husband has been my best friend since we married nearly 10 years ago, which is wonderful, but means that I really don't have anyone non-invested to talk to about my marriage. So here is the thing and bear with me, because it's about to get explicit and there are multiple issues: When I had our daughter, there was A LOT of damage, if you take my drift. My husband is not a very patient lover and is well-endowed girthwise. This meant great sex during the pre-child years. Now, when we have sex, it feels like someone is scraping me with a knife. I am not kidding here. We have tried to work on this, seen doctors, etc., but it just hurts - honestly (and I cannot believe I am saying this), he is just too big. I have tried "coaching" him, but it always ends up with my just gritting my teeth until its over. I swear if I could send him to sex lessons I would. But it's really more me anyway - I need to be *eased* back into sex by someone who is not trying to bang me through the wall. So it hurts, and we had sex less and less, so that when we did it hurt even more, etc. It has become an obstacle in our marriage - the big white elephant. When it is compounded with house payments, girl scouts meetings, work deadlines, etc., it just makes me want to cry. I do want sex! But KNOWING that it will hurt has killed my desire for my husband. I have been thinking for several months that if I could have sex with someone else that I trust who will be gentle and patient, it might help overcome my physical limitations, and now mental, limitations. And so of course: I met a man recently that I am very attracted to physically, and I believe he would be open to this, if I can actually bring myself to talk to him about it frankly without falling apart. For the first time in YEARS, I want sex. More to the point, I want sex with this man. He is the ONLY man I have met in years that I would even consider this with, seeing as how Orlando Bloom doesn't live around here. I don't want to leave my husband, but basically I want to have an affair. I can't see myself falling in love with this other guy - talk about different worlds! He is also married, so I don't want him falling in love with me either, so obviously there would have to be some discussion about this. I can't believe I am saying this - I just want to have an affair with him until I feel better and then go home and have fantastic sex with my husband and pay my bills and go to work. I don't want this other man to leave his wife, and I don't want emotional entanglements. I know that I would be selfish asking this other man to have an affair, but as long as he understands why and where the boundaries are, could it possibly work? Is this possible? Has ANYONE out there every had a therapeutic affair, and NOT had it end up as a full-blown affair or a disaster?
reboot Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 You should ask your husband how he feels about it.
Jinnah Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Try asking your husband and his wife if they think it would be therapeutic before proceeding. I think this is a bad idea... no a horrible one that's going to blow up in your face. Try reading the other threads on this forum and also the infidelity one and then tell me if you still feel this way. Your husband has the right to have you (his spouse) work with him without cheating on him. He has the right to be with you (after making an informed choice)... if you cheat and he has no clue then he is tricked into staying with you... understand? Affairs/adultery is devastating! On the "Why?" thread (infidelity forum),a woman said when she told her husband she was thinking about cheating, he realized he needed to change some things. Good points were made on "To the BS, don't blame the OW (OM/OW forum)" that might make you rethink this. Talk to your husband! Tell him what you told the readers here on LS... if you will tell a bunch of strangers, doesn't your husband mean more... shouldn't he be informed as well? Good luck.
lost4ever Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 How long ago did you have your child? You stated have sex with someone you trust....that says a lot. My H and I had this problem in the bed room before my A, and I had the same thoughts about not falling in love / MM also, someone will always fall in love.
Lizzie60 Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 I don't get this: I just want to have an affair with him until I feel better and then go home and have fantastic sex with my husband ... Why would this guy makes the penetration any less painful with your husband. The pain is probably due because of his size... the affair won't make it shrink... I don't understand... sorry. I don't want this other man to leave his wife, and I don't want emotional entanglements. This is exactly the type of A I want... I know that I would be selfish asking this other man to have an affair, but as long as he understands why and where the boundaries are, could it possibly work? Is this possible? Trust me IT IS very possible... I think he will be delighted. Has ANYONE out there every had a therapeutic affair, and NOT had it end up as a full-blown affair or a disaster? I have them all the time... not for me but for them... LOL and it does work... I do believe in therapeutic affairs.
whichwayisup Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Let me start by saying please don't judge me. My husband has been my best friend since we married nearly 10 years ago, which is wonderful, but means that I really don't have anyone non-invested to talk to about my marriage. So here is the thing and bear with me, because it's about to get explicit and there are multiple issues: When I had our daughter, there was A LOT of damage, if you take my drift. My husband is not a very patient lover and is well-endowed girthwise. This meant great sex during the pre-child years. Now, when we have sex, it feels like someone is scraping me with a knife. I am not kidding here. We have tried to work on this, seen doctors, etc., but it just hurts - honestly (and I cannot believe I am saying this), he is just too big. I have tried "coaching" him, but it always ends up with my just gritting my teeth until its over. I swear if I could send him to sex lessons I would. If your husband isn't willing to go either marriage counselling or sex therapy with you to work through this, then consider getting a divorce, or, talk to him about having an open marriage. So, basically what you're saying is, you let your husband hurt you while having sex. Does he know how much it hurts you? And, if so, why would he knowingly have sex with you when it hurts you so much? All that does is cause resentment and turn you off... But it's really more me anyway - I need to be *eased* back into sex by someone who is not trying to bang me through the wall. Okay, it sounds like it is your issue as well. Your husband's size isn't going to change. You say you need to be 'eased' back into sex by 'someone'. That isn't going to fix the problem, it will only MAKE more problems in your marriage. So it hurts, and we had sex less and less, so that when we did it hurt even more, etc. It has become an obstacle in our marriage - the big white elephant. When it is compounded with house payments, girl scouts meetings, work deadlines, etc., it just makes me want to cry. I do want sex! But KNOWING that it will hurt has killed my desire for my husband. I have been thinking for several months that if I could have sex with someone else that I trust who will be gentle and patient, it might help overcome my physical limitations, and now mental, limitations. By not having intimacy with your husband (And I take it no sex also means you aren't cuddling, kissing, holding hands, having intimate moments together) IS making you feel less attached to him emotionally. Everyone has stresses, daily life, the crap thrown at you...Somehow you two need to learn to turn all that off and spend time together as a couple, as husband and wife. And so of course: I met a man recently that I am very attracted to physically, and I believe he would be open to this, if I can actually bring myself to talk to him about it frankly without falling apart. For the first time in YEARS, I want sex. More to the point, I want sex with this man. He is the ONLY man I have met in years that I would even consider this with, seeing as how Orlando Bloom doesn't live around here. Then I suggest you tell your husband about this other man now. Do you know crazy selfish it is to consider having sex with another man? How would you feel if your husband did this to you? It won't work. If you do this, it will be the beginning of the end of your marriage! I don't want to leave my husband, but basically I want to have an affair. I can't see myself falling in love with this other guy - talk about different worlds! He is also married, so I don't want him falling in love with me either, so obviously there would have to be some discussion about this. I can't believe I am saying this - I just want to have an affair with him until I feel better and then go home and have fantastic sex with my husband and pay my bills and go to work. I don't want this other man to leave his wife, and I don't want emotional entanglements. I know that I would be selfish asking this other man to have an affair, but as long as he understands why and where the boundaries are, could it possibly work? Is this possible? Has ANYONE out there every had a therapeutic affair, and NOT had it end up as a full-blown affair or a disaster? That cannot happen. This is real life, not fantasy. You can't have your cake and eat it too!! I mean, if you got very fat, and your husband wasn't sexually attracted to you - HOW would that make you feel? Again, what if he wanted to go bang a thin woman, but still stay married to you? No strings attached, JUST SEX. On paper and in your mind you think all this could work out, but it WON'T! People's emotions get involved, feelings grow and innocent people like your husband, this other man's wife, and YOUR DAUGHTER get hurt by selfish choices...AKA having an affair. Are you prepared to lose everything that you're comfortable with now for sex? What if your husband had cancer, or if he couldn't have sex ever again because of illness...Would you consider having sex with another man? Sorry to sound harsh, but you need to open your eyes and THINK of your daughter, your family and life as you know it. GO to therapy with your husband. Communicate everything that you feel to him, what you said here and let him decide if he wants to allow you to have sex with someone else. Who knows, maybe he'll agree to it and want to have sex with another woman. Anyway, I hope you do some serious thinking before you decide to make the biggest mistake of your life. Choosing to cheat on your husband because his penis is too big is NOT right.
Cobra_X30 Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 It's good that you are putting some real thought into this before you go and do it! It seems like your in a really tough spot. I don't think that it is anything that open communication can't solve. You may have to really just level with him and slap him in the face with how you feel to wake him up. Do you understand what happens if you actually go through with this? What happens if things dont work the way you imagine they will?
whichwayisup Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 But Lizzie, you aren't married. You are a single woman. Why would this guy makes the penetration any less painful with your husband. The pain is probably due because of his size... the affair won't make it shrink... Exactly. Having an affair will not make your sex life better with your husband. If anything, it will make it worse. So, why don't YOU go to a sex therapist and see if they can help you, instead of another man.
Jinnah Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Wow:rolleyes:... so you wouldn't understand the complexities of marriage and therefore are not in the position to give realistic advice in this scenario. You always tell MW/MW/BS to stay out of the OW/OM issues... shouldn't you follow your own advice if you want to stand by it?
norajane Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 I do want sex! But KNOWING that it will hurt has killed my desire for my husband. I have been thinking for several months that if I could have sex with someone else that I trust who will be gentle and patient, it might helpYou can do that without having an affair. By a dildo. Or several, of varying sizes. And use lots of lube. Put on some music, start touching yourself, and masturbate as gently and patiently as you need. And tell your husband what you're doing so maybe he starts to understand that he is causing you pain and you need something very different to get back into the physical part of sex. And maybe, while you're at it, the two of you can try to bring a little romance back into your lives...like planning dates, kisses, holding hands, and touching each other without it leading to sex. You are heading toward divorce if you get into an affair. I don't understand why doctors can't help whatever your problems are, but having sex with another man while you are married is only going to add to the problems in your marriage - it's not going to fix anything.
norajane Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 If the dildo physical therapy doesn't work, maybe you could go to a plastic surgeon for a consult. They can repair coochies to be as good as new these days. It might be expensive, but it's possible insurance could cover it as reconstructive surgery if you were really damaged during childbirth. If they don't, it might still be worth the price. Certainly less expensive than a divorce.
lost4ever Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 Ok, thats a bad idea, If it hurts because H is too big; she would go into surgery to loosen it up? I'm sorry I don't think I love anyone that much
norajane Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 Ok, thats a bad idea, If it hurts because H is too big; she would go into surgery to loosen it up? I'm sorry I don't think I love anyone that much No, that's not what I meant! Something happened during childbirth that made sex painful, where it was pleasurable before and not painful - same sized dick before childbirth as after. Childbirth doesn't tighten vaginas, right? So, what happened? Maybe there's some scarring or tissue that didn't heal properly that's getting in the way and causing pain.
lost4ever Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 LOL, I know what you meant, I just couldn't pass it up!
reboot Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 I know that I would be selfish asking this other man to have an affair, but as long as he understands why and where the boundaries are, could it possibly work? Is this possible? Trust me IT IS very possible... I think he will be delighted. I keep seeing women, you amoung them, in this thread and others, saying things like this, like all married men will cheat, all you have to do is offer. Piece of cake. Obviously you don't really know any real men.
Author traingirl Posted October 5, 2007 Author Posted October 5, 2007 Thanks to everyone for your replies. H and I have been to a doctor - they told us that they could scrape away the scar tissue, but in 95% of the cases in comes back, with additional scar tissue. Not helpful. I didn't go into all the details before and I won't too much now, but due to EXTENSIVE damage during childbirth (I didn't see my daughter for three hours because I was in emergency surgery, and I can't have any more children), my vagina is not only much smaller, but shaped differently as well, to the point that H has actually noticed it. I have worked on this with a dildo, with and without H, and it will seem better, but when we try again, the pain is there. We have tried different positions, different lubricants, nothing works. I have talked with H about this. In the city that we lived in when my daughter was born, there were sex therapists, that would talk, counsel, one or both partners, up to and including actually getting in there and demonstrating. However, we now live in the Bible belt, and the last doctor I saw here basically told me to deal with it (after all, sex is for procreation not recreation, right?). H and I talked again about this last night. We have not made love in a year and half because he is unwillingly to hurt me and I am unwilling to be hurt. Imagine trying to pleasure yourself with a large dildo surfaced like a cheese grater, and that would pretty well describe the situation. We are going to try to find some other doctors - I read about a doctor in CA, I think, who had tried injections to basically permanently anesthetize the affected area. I guess feeling nothing in better than being in pain. As far as I know, there is no such thing as a penis reduction, so any medical solution will have to be on my side. After the doctor, we are going to look for a sex therapist in our area, though I have looked into this before and met stunned faces even in the medical community when I ask about it. If that doesn't work, he and I are willing to try other options, including open marriage. I actually am surprised that he has not gone elsewhere before now - though he may have and I really can't blame him. We are still intimate in other ways, and I enjoy being with him more than anyone else in the world, but masturbating and oral sex is just not doing the trick any more, for either of us, even when we do it together, but it just underlines the point that we are not having sex. The last time we tried anything, it ended up in hurt feelings and tears, because I was trying to "coach" and he was just so thrilled to be getting laid that it ended badly. And also the man I mentioned - it occurs to me that I don't know if he is married or not. I just assumed he was because I know that he has grown children. So my original question I guess should have been phrased - has anyone out there taken a lover (for lack of better terminology) as part of sex therapy? And let me say this - if I could send H to someone who would be disease-free and not show up 6 months later and boil our bunny, in order to help him as well, I would do it in a heartbeat.
lost4ever Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 You had your child a year and a half ago? it sounds to me like you both thought this throughm good luck and I would like to hear how it turns out
TogetherForever Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 It feels like a large dildo with a cheesegrater on the end of it?? Why not try a condom on your h's penis? They do carry extra large condoms. It's worth a try. TF
Author traingirl Posted October 5, 2007 Author Posted October 5, 2007 We have tried with and w/o condoms. Anything that size (dildo included) feels that way because of the damage. Had my daughter 6 years ago - we tried stuff at first, but after 4 and 1/2 years of trying, we ran out of ideas. I am seeing a doctor next week - a female this time. Hopefully, I will not get another load of BS about my "wifely duty" and "paying the piper". Geez, isn't this 2007? PEOPLE HAVE SEX. And judging from the number of people I commute with and all the freaking traffic and SUVs with DVD players in them, it looks like it is pretty common! I hate this attitude that sex is dirty and wrong and you shouldn't enjoy it. Sex feels good (at least it should!), it's good exercise, it's fun (when done correctly), and if no one ever had sex, we wouldn't all be online talking about it. H joked that I should put a personal add in the paper - seeking man with small penis for straight up sex. I had to laugh - how torn would guys be replying to that ad?
norajane Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 H and I have been to a doctor - they told us that they could scrape away the scar tissue, but in 95% of the cases in comes back, with additional scar tissue. my vagina is not only much smaller, but shaped differently as well, to the point that H has actually noticed it. We are going to try to find some other doctors - I read about a doctor in CA, I think, who had tried injections to basically permanently anesthetize the affected area. I guess feeling nothing in better than being in pain.I would say look for a really good plastic surgeon who specializes in vaginal reconstructive surgery. The numbing thing doesn't sound fun, and scraping away scar tissue doesn't sound like a good solution. I've probably watched too much cable, but if plastic surgeons can work so many miracles on people who have been badly scarred in car accidents (and I've never heard of scraping scar tissue away!), they must be able to do something that can help you. I keep harping on this because the odds are that you will experience pain with any lover you take, if the damage was so severe. And I don't see how a sex therapist will help you with the physical pain that's caused by the scarring, although they can maybe help with the emotional issues.
Author traingirl Posted October 5, 2007 Author Posted October 5, 2007 Thank you norajane, for your thoughtful answer. You are right. Our first solution it to try to find someone that will help us. I know I will need some kind of therapy to get over the sex w/H = pain link in my mind, and he may need some help as well. I mean geez, every time we've had sex in the last six years, I end up wincing and crying - that can't be good for his self-esteem. It's good to know that he is willing to try alternative options as well. I just have not *wanted* sex for a long time - then I met this other man, a lot of feelings arose, and I realized how I missed it! And it just came flooding back so quickly, all at once, it seemed to physically ache! Thanks to everyone for allowing me to sort through all these feelings. I will post back with developments, if there are any.
OWoman Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 Traingirl I'm sorry if this is stating the obvious and you've already tried this, but have you tried @nal? I had a colleague who was from Nigeria, and had undergone female genital mutilation as a child, was hacked open by a dagger on marriage and badly damaged in the process. She ran away, but also developed bad scarring in the process, perhaps similar to yours? She's now remarried to a local guy, and because of physical and emotional issues around penetrative vaginal sex prefers to avoid it. They got around the "how to remain intimate" issues by exploring non-penetrative options, and @nal. It works for them, but I know it's not everybody's thing. On the reconstructive surgery - I agree with norajane, the "scraping away" sounds really crude. Laser surgery should avoid that kind of re-scarring and a good plastic / reconstructive surgeon should be able to advise. If you have a strong relationship with your H, and it sounds like you do, then complicating it with outside others should really be your last resort.
norajane Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 I just did a search on vaginal reconstructive surgery, and it seems there are lot of doctors out there who do vaginal rejuvination, which is not what you're looking for. The Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL, seems to have a department that focuses on major vaginal reconstruction, like for cancer patients. Might be worth your time to look into what they can do. Good luck.
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