lost4ever Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Ok, I haven't been around in awhile,What happened? here I am trying to catch up on the OW post(s) and all I see is a flood of people giving view points on the OW (key point: YOUR VIEW POINT) Even the "nice" ones come over here and there post----He is scum, leave him, he is lying, leave him, He loves his wife, not you, leave him...........and if the question is about a MW having an A, with a MM....you are both scum---divorce.... This is getting old, let me state again what this forum is for----TO GIVE ADVICE AND DISCUSS being on the "other side" telling the OW/OM any of the above is not a discussion: for a discussion you need Vaild, sound points and/ or arguments, (this means at least experience and the way it relates to said thread) to have a discussion, and it is not advice (please see VAILD, SOUND, ARGUMENTS) we are not your children or your project from saving humanity from all evil women thank you 1
forbidden fruit Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Amen to this post. If i have one more person tell me I am the lowest form of a human and I should get a divorce. Or better yet how can I look at myself in the mirror. What would these people like me to do leave the planet. My situation is what is , like alot of ow and I am here for sound advice and i am not looking for affirmation,but I am certainly not looking for bashing. I feel like I am in a bad place right now and not sure what I did was the right thing. I miss my xmm and the pain is about the same with him in my life and not being able to have him and him being out of my life. I am in NC under the advice of everybody,but I am still not sure if this is what I want to do. I know I am not scum, but just someone who has made mistakes and guess what will continue making them until I have learned my lessons. Afterall even though I MW who had a A with MM we are not the devil reincarnated.
lindya Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 My situation is what is , like alot of ow and I am here for sound advice and i am not looking for affirmation,but I am certainly not looking for bashing. I feel like I am in a bad place right now To get the best you can out of this board, I'd suggest that every time you read a post that does nothing but bash and condemn, you put the poster who wrote it on ignore. Don't engage with them. It may well be that in their own way, they're in just as bad a place as you are - and if you're on opposite sides of the debate you'll just end up feeding off eachother in the worst possible way. Debate can be fun, and if you're in an okay place it's possible to remain quite detached and objective - even with people who are out to pick a fight with you. If you're in a bad place, as you are just now, then getting embroiled in any of that might give you some temporary venting relief, but ultimately it will keep you down and prevent you from making progress. As you're feeling low, you're bound to be hyper-sensitive to criticism. It might be that even some of the more balanced, well-intended posts will hurt if there's an excess of "tough love" in them. Those posts can help some people, but if you're very vulnerable they might be more than you can take. Little steps of progress are best at a time like this. Focus on the supportive posts, and aim to build your resilience up towards being able to consider some of the more challenging, but helpfully intended, points of view that get expressed here.
Art_Critic Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 I have always thought that this post from the mods that is pinned at the top sums up the forum and this kind of behavior the best.. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t54546/ By the way.. great post Lindya
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 To get the best you can out of this board, I'd suggest that every time you read a post that does nothing but bash and condemn, you put the poster who wrote it on ignore. Don't engage with them. It may well be that in their own way, they're in just as bad a place as you are - and if you're on opposite sides of the debate you'll just end up feeding off eachother in the worst possible way. Debate can be fun, and if you're in an okay place it's possible to remain quite detached and objective - even with people who are out to pick a fight with you. If you're in a bad place, as you are just now, then getting embroiled in any of that might give you some temporary venting relief, but ultimately it will keep you down and prevent you from making progress. As you're feeling low, you're bound to be hyper-sensitive to criticism. It might be that even some of the more balanced, well-intended posts will hurt if there's an excess of "tough love" in them. Those posts can help some people, but if you're very vulnerable they might be more than you can take. Little steps of progress are best at a time like this. Focus on the supportive posts, and aim to build your resilience up towards being able to consider some of the more challenging, but helpfully intended, points of view that get expressed here. Amen to that, great post Lindya
Trialbyfire Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Ok, I haven't been around in awhile,What happened? here I am trying to catch up on the OW post(s) and all I see is a flood of people giving view points on the OW (key point: YOUR VIEW POINT) Even the "nice" ones come over here and there post----He is scum, leave him, he is lying, leave him, He loves his wife, not you, leave him...........and if the question is about a MW having an A, with a MM....you are both scum---divorce.... This is getting old, let me state again what this forum is for----TO GIVE ADVICE AND DISCUSS being on the "other side" telling the OW/OM any of the above is not a discussion: for a discussion you need Vaild, sound points and/ or arguments, (this means at least experience and the way it relates to said thread) to have a discussion, and it is not advice (please see VAILD, SOUND, ARGUMENTS) we are not your children or your project from saving humanity from all evil women thank you Both the bolded phrases and sentences are valid points in a debate.
NoIDidn't Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 "This particular forum is focused on discussing the problems and experiences of those who are in relationships with people who already have commitments to other partners. It is certainly appropriate for people whose partners have been unfaithful to them to offer their insight to posters here; however, it is only appropriate if it's done in a respectful and helpful manner. "Respectful and helpful" does not mean that you must condone or encourage a poster. It does not mean that you must agree with the poster." I feel very much for those here who are in pain and hypersensitive as another poster put it. The MODs have been relatively fair and respond quickly before threads get out of hand (as witnessed in the BS Blame thread). Personal views are welcome by the creators of LS as long as they are respectful no matter which side of a debate or situation you are on. For a one-sided discussion of your A, you may have to find another forum or PM other OPs that post in this forum.
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Both the bolded phrases and sentences are valid points in a debate. Yet "He is scum" is not. We all know the type of posts, I agree constructive criticism is brilliant and an insight of the other side of the coin is great too. It all depends on the motives of the poster IMO
Trialbyfire Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Yet "He is scum" is not. We all know the type of posts, I agree constructive criticism is brilliant and an insight of the other side of the coin is great too. It all depends on the motives of the poster IMO Motive is inapplicable. Reality is applicable.
Woggle Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Cheating men are scum and other women are either suckers or opportunists exploiting a bad situation.
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Motive is inapplicable. Reality is applicable. Thats your opinion. The motive of a poster does count IMO. If they genuinely want to help, share their knowledge, offer their view fair enough. If they want to represent the wrongs that have been carried out by another person with someone on an anonymous forum, thats different.
Trialbyfire Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Thats your opinion. The motive of a poster does count IMO. If they genuinely want to help, share their knowledge, offer their view fair enough. If they want to represent the wrongs that have been carried out by another person with someone on an anonymous forum, thats different. If the core information is the same, it doesn't matter why someone wants to make a difference. What you want is someone who condones infidelity, which common sense dictates, isn't the most healthy style of relationship.
Author lost4ever Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 [ Quote: Originally Posted by lost4ever Ok, I haven't been around in awhile,What happened? here I am trying to catch up on the OW post(s) and all I see is a flood of people giving view points on the OW (key point: YOUR VIEW POINT) Even the "nice" ones come over here and there post----He is scum, leave him, he is lying, leave him, He loves his wife, not you, leave him...........and if the question is about a MW having an A, with a MM....you are both scum---divorce.... This is getting old, let me state again what this forum is for----TO GIVE ADVICE AND DISCUSS being on the "other side" telling the OW/OM any of the above is not a discussion: for a discussion you need Vaild, sound points and/ or arguments, (this means at least experience and the way it relates to said thread) to have a discussion, and it is not advice (please see VAILD, SOUND, ARGUMENTS) we are not your children or your project from saving humanity from all evil women thank you "Both the bolded phrases and sentences are valid points in a debate" No not really, sentence can not be valid and they are Non-indicative...but not my point.... "Respectful and helpful" does not mean that you must condone or encourage a poster. It does not mean that you must agree with the poster. Agree, however; Helpful does mean to be advantageous, obliging, cooperative, supportive and BENEFICIAL.....respectful does mean deferential, polite, courteous, and considerate... If it is too emotionally challenging to give input on a situation, in order to benefit the persons well being, maybe...and this is just a thought, some should stay off this forum... There is always a benefit from divergence, but it needs to be done with INSIGHT and TACT YOU ARE A SLUT, is only a derogatory opinion...save it for another forum
Trialbyfire Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 No not really, sentence can not be valid and they are Non-indicative...but not my point.... Non-indicative, in what way? Many times these phrases/sentences are wrapped with more text. If anything, to pull a phrase/sentence out of context and then complain about it as being non-indicative, seems to be a way to negate the common sense displayed within both these points of "contention".
Author lost4ever Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 "Many times these phrases/sentences are wrapped with more text. If anything, to pull a phrase/sentence out of context and then complain about it as being non-indicative, seems to be a way to negate the common sense displayed within both these points of "contention". My point with this thread was to directly point out how many people have left a comment stating ONLY You are scum, divorce your husband and let him get on with his life without having a slut for a wife This is not in any way "common sense" If they feel they can not adequately submit a post with at least a reasonable amount of helpful insight, then do not post, we are not here for jabs.... again, I do not mind comments from people who give "tough love", I do not mind when they express that they do not agree with what I did (hell, I don't even agree with what I did) but making a vague statement does no one any good...lets have an example (Darth, hope you don't mind) He does not agree with my actions at all, he does not agree with my choice, my countinued choices, or my conclusion....however, he ALWAYS answers the thread with, why did you do this: did you consider this: Oh, by the way..your actions make you a slut.....that is fine, his opinion is accepted, becuase he is overall, trying to help
Trialbyfire Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Don't you think that it's controlling to want to dictate how someone phrases advice? Some are succinct, others are verbose. If someone wants to post advice that says "he's lying, leave him", it seems pretty straightforward to me since all MMs involved in affairs have lied, unless the two spouses have an open relationship.
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Don't you think that it's controlling to want to dictate how someone phrases advice? Some are succinct, others are verbose. If someone wants to post advice that says "he's lying, leave him", it seems pretty straightforward to me since all MMs involved in affairs have lied, unless the two spouses have an open relationship. No, I think I'm seeing the gist of what lost4ever is saying and there's a very fine line between controlling phrases and asking for some tact. Hypothetically, if someone didn't agree with a BS taking a WS back after they'd cheated for the third time, it would be okay to say "You're such a loser! Get a life! Wake up! Have you even tried MC???" that would be okay? I dont think it would, because that person is in pain and I would certainly use tact to direct my advice, guidance or opinions to them. But thats just me.
Author lost4ever Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 No I don't think it is controlling, the diffrence between being to the point and not completing your thought is vast. Everyone lies, the premises has no basis for the conclusion, it is invalid unless you provided evidence to your statement: It is the same as saying He drank water; He will Die.... Of course he drank water, and of course he will die....
Author lost4ever Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 [quote=Je Hypothetically, if someone didn't agree with a BS taking a WS back after they'd cheated for the third time, it would be okay to say "You're such a loser! Get a life! Wake up! Have you even tried MC???" that would be okay? I dont think it would, because that person is in pain and I would certainly use tact to direct my advice, guidance or opinions to them. But thats just me. pretty much my point, but not even so much the tact as the people who just post for the one line statement...... BTW, I would like to note for the record, I never mentioned BS's being the one doing this.....I know many people who have not been betrayed that believe what I did was wrong, I do not know which are BS and which have another reason, like trying to claim moral superiority
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 pretty much my point, but not even so much the tact as the people who just post for the one line statement...... BTW, I would like to note for the record, I never mentioned BS's being the one doing this.....I know many people who have not been betrayed that believe what I did was wrong, I do not know which are BS and which have another reason, like trying to claim moral superiority Sorry my mistake lost4ever, I note that that wasn't your intention regarding posts from BS
Darth Vader Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 Hypothetically, if someone didn't agree with a BS taking a WS back after they'd cheated for the third time, it would be okay to say "You're such a loser! Get a life! Wake up! Have you even tried MC???" that would be okay? I dont think it would, because that person is in pain and I would certainly use tact to direct my advice, guidance or opinions to them. But thats just me. People who use these lines use them in an attempt to "wake up" the BS. Although the Loser part is uncalled for, they're trying to use shock and awe to perhaps motivate a person who has been trodden down for so long that the BS doesn't have the strength, or hope that things can be, or will be better for themselves, to either save the marriage, or to Divorce the WS. They are in essance, in a state of limbo in which they cannot escape by themselves.
OWoman Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 Cheating men are scum and other women are either suckers or opportunists exploiting a bad situation. By that token I could argue that BWs are either suckers or wusses with no self-respect to end a bad M. But I won't because I take a more sophisticated view of the world that allows that people and circumstances are different.
Bobby NoBrains Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 To an extent I agree with the OP, in that people who are biased against something will not be able to post anything constructive, esp if they can't be bothered to post anything more than "a = b, b = c, ergo a = c". Everyone knows that or understands that. Just pointing it out again and again is not really much help. However, some have still gotten into this problem without having planned it, and they do need help for being saved from a manipulative MM/MW or from an exploitative OM/OW or simply from a bad situation that they find themselves in. It would be better if we could restrain ourselves to giving constructive advice rather than just saying how useless the poster and/or his/her partner are. Tbh, I've been guilty of it myself (who doesn't like to put in their two bits?) but I will try to do less of that on this forum or any others. Ty for bringing this up again OP. Just my two bits .. Bobby
Author lost4ever Posted October 3, 2007 Author Posted October 3, 2007 Bobby, Great post...this was all I was trying to point out. Thanks for putting it in it's proper form.
Cobra_X30 Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 To an extent I agree with the OP, in that people who are biased against something will not be able to post anything constructive, esp if they can't be bothered to post anything more than "a = b, b = c, ergo a = c". Everyone knows that or understands that. Just pointing it out again and again is not really much help. Just my two bits .. Bobby Bobby, we all come here from a unique place. It's best that we respect that fact. Are we now that thin skinned? Does a persons point of view become invalid if you dont think it is helpful?
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