Ariadne Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Oh, ---- ~ After he left I texted him that I had awesome time (but of course, the guy was on the road probably) ~ he said Me Too.... (what can you do) ~ I called and left a VM to let me know how his Dr's office visit goes. (that same night..) ----- Ariadne
garnet Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Ariadne, Lovelace is seeking constructive advice, not to get kicked while she's down. There's a way to offer advice without coming across as a total B**** . Nice.
shadowplay Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Ariadne, Lovelace is seeking constructive advice, not to get kicked while she's down. There's a way to offer advice without coming across as a total B**** . Nice. I agree. Ariadne is totally out of line.
BlueEyedGirl Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 I agree with Ariadne 100%. There is no sense in sugar coating things.
garnet Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 There's a big difference between not sugar coating something and calling someone's behavior "crap" who is trying hard to make a relationship work and doesn't mean anyone any ill will. It is just plain disrespectful and rude, and she doesn't deserve that.
Star Gazer Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 There's a big difference between not sugar coating something and calling someone's behavior "crap" who is trying hard to make a relationship work and doesn't mean anyone any ill will. It is just plain disrespectful and rude, and she doesn't deserve that. I totally agree with Adriane's points (admittedly Adriane's posts are a little hard to understand, the way she italicizes instead of quotes confuses me sometimes). Whether you call it "stuff" or "shenanigans" or "sh*t" or "crap," it is what it is: needy, clingy, passive-aggressiveness. This guy is NOT ready to date, and LL is expecting and wanting WAY too much WAY too soon. Adriane's post points out how LL is now acting clingy and naggy and just...not like someone he would want to be around. The way Adriane broke it down made it almost painful to read, but not any less true. This is exactly what happens when you rush things.
garnet Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 The "crap" is in the first line of the post. I've been saying the same thing that the guy isn't ready to date, and I'm not disagreeing with that. Up until this point, HE has been the one pushing, and she has gone along with it. Yes, it's a bad situation. But having been in her situation and knowing how confusing it is, the LAST thing she needs is people saying things in a tone like that. There's a way to offer advice that isn't mean, that's all I'm saying.
oppath Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Hmmm, I don't know as if LL's behavior is clingy, needy, or nagging. I've had gf's do far worse and I didn't care so much. But his behavior HAS changed, and I agree it is too much too soon (I'm in a similar boat and I really didn't like the pace at times). This is the problem that always occurs when something starts FAST; as soon as behavior changes a little, the other person flips out. I'm in this same situation, LL, but my girlfriend and I decided that she was still dealing with her breakup. It is a problem because it is too fast in some ways, but too slow in others. She needs to be done with the old before moving on to someone new. So we're breaking up because she is not ready. In your situation, you REALLY REALLY need to be cool, because your guy is going through a lot. Your behavior isn't needy or nagging at all to someone who is ready for a relationship, but for someone who is struggling with a breakup or a divorce, it could push him the wrong way. This isn't your fault at all. I don't find fault with your behavior. I find fault with the situation.
shadowplay Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 I agree with Ariadne's post too. It's not what she said but the way she said it. I got the feeling she was chiding the OP, which wasn't necessary.
norajane Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 It may not have been the most elegant way to say it, but I think Ariadne's posts very effectively lay out the reality of the situation. Consider this guy's phone list: Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Dave Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace All in the span of a couple days. And I don't know about everyone's cell phone, but every phone I've ever had works just fine while it's charging, both inbound and outbound. Lovelace, I know it's after the fact now, but please dial it back a notch or two. You don't have to keep trying to contact him if you've already tried once. He knows you called; he knows you left a text. He'll call or text when he's ready. Continuing to contact him isn't going to do anything but make you feel bad. You increase your own anxiety levels when you keep racking up the contacts. It goes from, "Well, I left a message and he hasn't called back yet" to "Dammit, I left 27 messages and he STILL hasn't called!!!" You are adding to your own anxiety when you do that. Also, give this guy space, but you don't have to TELL him NC for two days! Remember what I said about not telegraphing your moves (that whole, "we need to talk" business, instead of just coming out and saying what you need to say when you see him). Same thing here. If you want to give him a breather, then just don't call for a couple days. He'll feel the relief of not being pushed, without having to worry that you're mad at him or about to break up with him or whatever. Telling someone to not call for two days is just plain anti-social behavior. What if he wanted to talk to you, but now won't call because you told him NC? Is that what you really want? Finally - and most important - do not keep assuming that his every breath and sigh and fart is about you. He is an individual with his own issues, and if he's in a bad mood, or if he's quiet, or if he's whatever, it doesn't mean that it's your fault or has anything to do with you or your relationship so don't take responsibility for it! Why do you automatically assume he's upset with you and must be ready to break up with you just because he's quiet or whatever? Aren't you ever in a bad or sad mood and it has nothing to do with the person you're having dinner with? Let him deal with his issues without putting so much pressure on yourself!!
Trialbyfire Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Slow it down LL. You've only known each other for 5 weeks. Regardless of the fact that he initiates discussions about your future together, just slow down, relax and enjoy the now.
Star Gazer Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 I agree with Ariadne's post too. It's not what she said but the way she said it. I got the feeling she was chiding the OP, which wasn't necessary. I didn't see it that way. I saw it as this: Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Dave Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace All in the span of a couple days. And an explanation of what he was likely thinking/feeling each time she made contact. LL, this is an important piece of advice...read it again and again: Continuing to contact him isn't going to do anything but make you feel bad. You increase your own anxiety levels when you keep racking up the contacts. It goes from, "Well, I left a message and he hasn't called back yet" to "Dammit, I left 27 messages and he STILL hasn't called!!!" You are adding to your own anxiety when you do that. Also, give this guy space, but you don't have to TELL him NC for two days! Remember what I said about not telegraphing your moves (that whole, "we need to talk" business, instead of just coming out and saying what you need to say when you see him). Same thing here. If you want to give him a breather, then just don't call for a couple days. He'll feel the relief of not being pushed, without having to worry that you're mad at him or about to break up with him or whatever. Telling someone to not call for two days is just plain anti-social behavior. What if he wanted to talk to you, but now won't call because you told him NC? Is that what you really want? And this: Slow it down LL. You've only known each other for 5 weeks. Regardless of the fact that he initiates discussions about your future together, just slow down, relax and enjoy the now.
Ariadne Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Ah, It seems like between the: ~ "U feel okay?".... ~ "Ok I guess" was his response. ~ I left a voice mail then to call me with a timeline so that I can tell our friends what's going on ~ Finally he pulls up in front of my place around 12:30pm. --------- There was another VM. So, chalk one up Norajane: Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Dave Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace Lovelace ----- Ariadne
oppath Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 You know, I see it a little different. That call list from Lovelace...he could have cut it in half himself if he had just said "I'll be there around noon tomorrow." He claimed he wasn't feeling well, and she was concerned about him, so she called. I do agree it appears a bit much, but I only feel that way because of his situation.
Author LoveLace Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 There's a big difference between not sugar coating something and calling someone's behavior "crap" who is trying hard to make a relationship work and doesn't mean anyone any ill will. It is just plain disrespectful and rude, and she doesn't deserve that. Thanks. By the way Adriene, not only was he "cheery" Sunday morning but he started saying that he wanted to stay with me an extra night (I did not even ask him to or say I wanted him to) and rent a movie, etc. That hardly sounds like he couldn't wait to leave. But I told him to only stay if he was sure because he had a Dr's appointment the next morning and a 2 hour drive. He decided he didn't want to deal with that and I wouldn't either. Also, the reason I "alarmed" (and they are not HIS friends, they were actually MY friends before he even KNEW them)....is because we made plans with THEM for that day, they planned it 3 weeks in advance to hang out with us, and arranged a babysitter and everything, so when the guy lives 2 hours away and it's NOON and we're supposed to meet him at 2PM, but he's not returning anyone's call, we all sord of wanted to know what was going on, get it? And the night before he was "sick" we talked as usual before bed and everything was fine. The guy is going through stuff right now and I think he's wrong about not needing anti-depressants anymore and just does not realize it. However, I know from experience that there is a form of selfishness with depression, and I think he's being selfish right now at this moment by not calling me. Sometimes depressed people will have someone in their life who will run to be there for them, but they will not do the same because they are caught up in their issues....and don't want to take responsibility for how they are hurting others. But you know what I don't have time to deal with this crap cuz I have a lot of sh*t going on. I don't have time to beat the truth out of somebody. If he doesn't call very soon I am just going to tell him it's over and get on with my life. He's a wonderful guy but I don't think he's ready to devote himself to someone. I haven't called him since yesterday morning, and when I told Jenny the voice mail I left, she said "That sounds like your breaking up with him! You have to call him!"....I said no I refuse to call him anymore. If that's how he interpreted the message, then fine. It was really me giving him the option to shove me aside for a while if he wants, (to get through divorce) but at the same time said I just want us to enjoy things together. So since he isn't calling, maybe he's taking that offer, but it would be more respectful of him to tell me that. So I'm not giving him much longer to do something. Great guy, but I woke up this morning and thought "This sucks and it doesnt even have to be this way....dumping him would make it all go away"....
Ariadne Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Oh, Now is "his" fault: ~ The guy is going through stuff right now ~ he's wrong about not needing anti-depressants ~ there is a form of selfishness with depression ~ he's being selfish right now at this moment by not calling me ~ they are caught up in their issues.... ~ don't want to take responsibility for how they are hurting others ~ He's a wonderful guy but I don't think he's ready ----- So, that's what it is. Ariadne
Author LoveLace Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 So he just sent me a text message out of the blue that said "Going to work...talk to you later"....but I'm not going to respond. It either means he will call me tonight or he's just trying shut me up temporarily. Guys will say sh*t like that to keep you happy for a minute. I know from experience! But his plan is probably to call and break up with me. Oh well at least I'm prepared.
Author LoveLace Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 Aridane or whatever your name is, I don't know anything for sure. But I do know that when I try to consider what he's going through and just want to be there for him, I get called passive-aggressive. But when I try to think about ME for once and decide that I don't have to be treated any way that I don't want to be treated, either way your a smart a$$. Whatever he's going through is NOT his fault, but it's not MY fault either and I'm not here to pay for what someone else did to him or any guy for that matter. Leaving him alone to deal with things would not be calling it his fault. It would be better for us both. And there IS selfishness involved with depression and I know it because I've been there. But it isn't like I was aware of it at the time, it isn't like I knew I was hurting people, I just didn't care, all I cared about was poor little me. In some cases we need to realize that friends are friends because they liked you in the 1st place; when you shut down all the things they liked about you, they might not want to be there anymore when you need them. Anyway he just texted and said he will call later so we'll see.
Ariadne Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 No, But I do know that when I try to consider what he's going through and just want to be there for him, I get called passive-aggressive. But when I try to think about ME for once... This is you... pest pest pest pest pest pest Oh, I love you honey, are you ok? pest pest pest pest pest And then you have a justification for "everything" under the sun. Everything has a reason that is completely unrelated to you in any way. I'm sure this is at work, with friends (if you have any), with the roomate, etc etc. And then, oh, but I'm just LL. I didn't "do" anything. I'm so nice... Ariadne
Author LoveLace Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 From here on out I consider any post by ariadne to be completely mindless and insignificant and therefore will not bother to read. I bet you just have a billion friends yourself cuz your so sweet. Your only here to try and p*ss me off and it's not working, so you might as well stop exaggerating "everything" I say under the sun. Go ahead and post all day and attack me to the best of your ability. Come on, we're all waiting to see what else you got. Keep going. And watch me not give a f*ck. Your a total stranger and anything you say is worthless to me.
shadowplay Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 No, I'm sure this is at work, with friends (if you have any), with the roomate, etc etc. And then, oh, but I'm just LL. I didn't "do" anything. I'm so nice... Ariadne Uh, anyone who still thinks Ariadne is just "trying to help" and "tellin' it like it is" needs to get her head checked. :rolleyes:I love how Ariadne's signature is a series of cute hearts.
spookie Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 No, But I do know that when I try to consider what he's going through and just want to be there for him, I get called passive-aggressive. But when I try to think about ME for once... This is you... pest pest pest pest pest pest Oh, I love you honey, are you ok? pest pest pest pest pest And then you have a justification for "everything" under the sun. Everything has a reason that is completely unrelated to you in any way. I'm sure this is at work, with friends (if you have any), with the roomate, etc etc. And then, oh, but I'm just LL. I didn't "do" anything. I'm so nice... Ariadne Wow... that's completely uncalled for. It doesn't sound like you did anythign particularly wrong LL. When you meet a guy who is really into you and wants the same things and isn't screwed up in the head by his ex-wife, he's going to return your calls and be straight-forward about what is going on when you have plans, so you won't have to call him 20 times just to figure out if he's still going. Next time, though, take the hint, even if you don't want to. Don't call 20 times no matter what. I think your calls and texts that day were a little over the top just because, thanks to HIM, you misinterpreted where you stood with him. You thought, since he wants to get serious, he must like you a lot and want to hear from you. So, it's ok not to play games. It's ok to pursue him for info. When in reality, he had begun to view you as a chore that day, and you should have stopped at call 1. It's tricky, balancing "not playing games" (doing what you feel like, contacting when you feel like it) and "not acting in such a way that can be perceived as needy". I think when you meet the right person, it'll fall into place and stay in that place. You won't have to worry about either. As far as with this guy, I think your last couple of posts were very reasonable. There's nothing you can do now but wait, if you want to. Personally, to me it sounds like this is all too soon for him and it'll be a LONG while, if ever, before he is ready to be in a healthy serious relationship (and I thought this when I read your first, happy, post, before the weekend even came into play), but if you feel he's worth it, I guess you can give it some more time.
Author LoveLace Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 Gosh maybe I can post in peace now?... I think you are ALL correct. I pushed him too much over the weekend I know that. But he WAS the one pushing in the beginning, and every time I had to get off the phone he said "Awww maaan..." I started to think he was the needy/clingy one but I gave him the benefit of the doubt cuz I liked everything else about him too much to care. Just the other day he made some comment about me having all week to cheat on him since we're only together on weekends....we're both guilty of having these insecure moments. By the way, we're going on 2 mos. now, believe it or not. And as someone said, he should have been more specific about when he would arrive Saturday, "I'll be there tomorrow" is a little too vague, no matter who's saying it. That was the only day since dating him that I've called him more than twice in one day. Last I heard he was "sick" so I didn't know if he was feeling better and I didn't want him to still come if he wasn't better. I told him that but he came anyway, so I dropped the whole "sick" thing and just had fun the rest of the weekend; by the end of the weekend he was acting as normal as always and was in a good mood, and wanted to stay with me longer. I don't think he's seen or spoken to his ex-wife at all since she left. She attempted to contact him once months ago but he refused to call her back. They have only communicated through lawyers. I think he's having a hard time knowing he'll see her at the trial, naturally. At the same time, he's got me to keep happy which I'm sure can be a bit much for a person. I'm only adding to whatever stress he's dealing with right now and I don't want to be demanding of his attention, which is why breaking up is just probably the better thing to do right now, cuz if I think he's treating me sh*tty I'll get angry and just f*ck the whole thing up even more. But I also care about him a great deal and want to be here for him. I might make a better friend than "girlfriend". As far as wanting too much too soon, he was right there with me until now which isn't surprising. I don't know how many times he said "I want you to be my wife"...I guarantee you I never once said "I want you to be my husband"...but admit I liked being told that. Sunday was when we talked and both agreed it's better to go slower. But later I still felt like something wasn't right, not in a sense that I did something wrong, but in the sense that he'd probably be better off without me right now, so the reality of that freaked me out. After that was when I gave him the option to put me off at least until the divorce is all final. And there's no guarantee he'd come back to me after that, but it's the risk ya take. He said he's calling me later tonight, so it might be to say he's taking me up on the offer. I'd be a little sad but I think I'd feel better too, cuz it would no longer be there for me to f*ck up. He talks about the depression stuff and it makes me feel like I'm walking on eggshells to make sure he doesn't take anything the wrong way. That's not something I'd miss.
Ariadne Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Hi, Uh, anyone who still thinks Ariadne is just "trying to help" and "tellin' it like it is" needs to get her head checked. And that's exactly what I'm doing. I've read enough posts from LL to have that precise impression of her. I may be wrong or not, but that's what I think. And I'm not here to try and help anyone, I'm here to give my perception. If that turns out to be helpful to someone that's fine. Ariadne
norajane Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Sunday was when we talked and both agreed it's better to go slower.You didn't mention that in your previous posts. Or maybe I missed it? What did you say to each other? Is this why you think he's going to break up with you? Because I don't understand why you're preparing yourself for a break up? You had one awkward weekend, and you're ready to break up? If you've been thinking he's someone you could end up with, part of having that kind of relationship is learning how to deal with conflict. Immediately jumping to break up thoughts isn't the way to go about it. Communication is. And I don't mean through voice mails and texts. If you have something important to say, like, maybe we should cool it until after the divorce, that's not something you leave in a voice mail. That offers you no option to hear his thoughts, and he doesn't have the option to ask you what you would really like to do, vs. what you said. At this point, wait for him to call you. But please, don't jump to conclusions without actually having a conversation with him. You have to give each other the benefit of the doubt and discuss things, rather than assuming you know what bug crawled up his ass and what he wants to do about it.
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