Just Friends....

[KATANYA]

I have been reading a lot of posts lately where there has been the recommendation for the OW to go NC. Understandably, there are times when that must be the case because of the strong emotional ties, inability to let go, etc. But, I'm wondering after reading a couple of posts if there are any instances where the A has ended and the OW and MM or OM and MW have stayed friends?

 

As many may know, I have been in a relationship with a MM for two years. I have not expectations or commitment issues with this man and definitely do not want him to leave his wife/family for me. My MM and I have gone for long stretches of time without seeing each other on a romantic level yet we work together and see each other every day. He is one of my dearest friends and truly has been that for much longer than we have been involved in the A. Over the years, we have grown to care for each other very much and I know I hold a special place in his life and he in mine. He was my absolute rock during a very difficult time in my life. Likewise, I have been a very good friend to him through some very difficult times in his life........long and short is we were friends before the A started, are friends now, and even if the A ended tomorrow I truly believe we would still be able to be friends. As a matter of fact, we have both said the same thing - we could take the A being over but would certainly both be lost without our friendship.

 

So, just wondering and wanting to here from others. Is it ever the case that people end the A but have stayed friends?

[precious1357]

Does his wife know? And if, so, is she okay with it?

[whichwayisup]

You CARE for him, the feelings are still there. You're emotionally attached to him.

 

Let's put it this way. You call him one day...Leave a message on the phone for him...He doesn't call you back...A week goes by...No call. Another week...No call back. How do you feel now that it's been 2 weeks and no return call from him? Are your feelings hurt? Do you cry? Do you wonder if he hates you, or do you think his wife has told him SHE doesn't approve of the friendship?

 

NO. You two cannot be friends. By keeping intouch, HE is making a fool of his wife. The friendship is NOT a happy, healthy and caring friendship...It's a self serving and selfish one.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

I don't know of any personal instances Katanya, although I don't think it is impossible.

 

It probably all depends on how the affair ends, and if you both respect each others friendship enough and no resentment has built up, I do think it is possible.

[KATANYA]

Hi Precious. No, his wife does not know and I would never want anyone to know and take great care never to do anything which would cause the A to become known. It was never my intent for the A to begin but things just evolved over time and we share very deep feelings for each other....My MM has been married for over 26 years and his wife is very much dependent on him for everything -although she works and is, in my mind, intelligent, she is like a child and he treats her as such, doing everything for her and his family - and I do mean EVERYTHING. He does the cooking, the cleaning, the child rearing, takes her to her doctor's appointments, hair appointments, etc, etc, etc....Don't get me wrong here, I am not jealous or envious as I am the complete opposite of that. I am very independent and self sufficient and have never needed anyone to "take care" of me in that kind of way. His wife is aware that he has had "flings" in the past and she has continued to stay and come back to him every time despite her knowledge of these relationships. Before me, he had one other "long term" relationship that was, inevitably exposed by the OW when things ended. Ironically, his W has always said she could accept the flings but the long term relationship was the one that bothered her. In all, I find it somewhat sad that they both live a lie, he staying for many reasons including guilt, love, commitment and obligation; and her because of financial comfort and neediness. I think she feels she is too old to start over and someday he will just settle down and I think he feels that he made a promise to take care of her and must honor that promise -even though it does not fill all his needs and never has. They have times when things are great and times when things are not good at all. At first they both stayed for their kids and now I think out of "routine" or comfort...who knows.

 

I am not a threat to their marriage in that I expect him to leave or expect our relationship to go beyond what it.......he fills a need in my life in many ways and I fill a need in his life that existed long before he and I became close.

[OWoman]

But, I'm wondering after reading a couple of posts if there are any instances where the A has ended and the OW and MM or OM and MW have stayed friends?

 

Hi Katanya,

 

Yes. A couple of my xMMs and I have stayed friends after I ended the A. One is still with his W, who is still unaware of the A. Another left his wife (after I ended the A) and now has a fulltime GF. And the other, well, I don't see him very often as he moved soon after I ended the A, though he visits often on business (without his family). We have several friends in common, and that tends to be where we see each other. I suspect he still has unfinished business, from oblique things he's said, though he knows for me over is over and that I'm now involved in a different way with someone else. Friendship in this last case might not be such a good idea unless he can move on, but with the other two it works pretty well.

[frannie]

I think it would be theoretically possible, in the same way as it's possible for any exes to remain 'friends'. i.e. if both parties are happy in their own hearts that it's over, and hold no hope of reconciliation or getting back together in future.

 

I am friends with several of my exes, and it really only works if that's the case, I think. If either wants more or hopes for more, it just makes for discomfort for both parties.

 

I do know of some OW who are friends with their xMM, but in each case there was a period of NC or extremely limited contact, which allowed healing and 'moving on'... and I think that's probably the only real way to do it..? I'm just guessing though.

[CAMAYPARK]

Hi Precious. No, his wife does not know and I would never want anyone to know and take great care never to do anything which would cause the A to become known. It was never my intent for the A to begin but things just evolved over time and we share very deep feelings for each other....My MM has been married for over 26 years and his wife is very much dependent on him for everything -although she works and is, in my mind, intelligent, she is like a child and he treats her as such, doing everything for her and his family - and I do mean EVERYTHING. He does the cooking, the cleaning, the child rearing, takes her to her doctor's appointments, hair appointments, etc, etc, etc....Don't get me wrong here, I am not jealous or envious as I am the complete opposite of that. I am very independent and self sufficient and have never needed anyone to "take care" of me in that kind of way. His wife is aware that he has had "flings" in the past and she has continued to stay and come back to him every time despite her knowledge of these relationships. Before me, he had one other "long term" relationship that was, inevitably exposed by the OW when things ended. Ironically, his W has always said she could accept the flings but the long term relationship was the one that bothered her. In all, I find it somewhat sad that they both live a lie, he staying for many reasons including guilt, love, commitment and obligation; and her because of financial comfort and neediness. I think she feels she is too old to start over and someday he will just settle down and I think he feels that he made a promise to take care of her and must honor that promise -even though it does not fill all his needs and never has. They have times when things are great and times when things are not good at all. At first they both stayed for their kids and now I think out of "routine" or comfort...who knows.

 

I am not a threat to their marriage in that I expect him to leave or expect our relationship to go beyond what it.......he fills a need in my life in many ways and I fill a need in his life that existed long before he and I became close.

 

OMG, how similar most things are, with only certain execeptions. I do believe that there are certain circumstances in which MM and OW can be friends.

[whichwayisup]

Hi Precious. No, his wife does not know and I would never want anyone to know and take great care never to do anything which would cause the A to become known. It was never my intent for the A to begin but things just evolved over time and we share very deep feelings for each other....My MM has been married for over 26 years and his wife is very much dependent on him for everything -although she works and is, in my mind, intelligent, she is like a child and he treats her as such, doing everything for her and his family - and I do mean EVERYTHING. He does the cooking, the cleaning, the child rearing, takes her to her doctor's appointments, hair appointments, etc, etc, etc....Don't get me wrong here, I am not jealous or envious as I am the complete opposite of that. I am very independent and self sufficient and have never needed anyone to "take care" of me in that kind of way. His wife is aware that he has had "flings" in the past and she has continued to stay and come back to him every time despite her knowledge of these relationships. Before me, he had one other "long term" relationship that was, inevitably exposed by the OW when things ended. Ironically, his W has always said she could accept the flings but the long term relationship was the one that bothered her. In all, I find it somewhat sad that they both live a lie, he staying for many reasons including guilt, love, commitment and obligation; and her because of financial comfort and neediness. I think she feels she is too old to start over and someday he will just settle down and I think he feels that he made a promise to take care of her and must honor that promise -even though it does not fill all his needs and never has. They have times when things are great and times when things are not good at all. At first they both stayed for their kids and now I think out of "routine" or comfort...who knows.

 

I am not a threat to their marriage in that I expect him to leave or expect our relationship to go beyond what it.......he fills a need in my life in many ways and I fill a need in his life that existed long before he and I became close.

Read your post again and again. You will find the answers of "why" you cannot be "just friends" with him.

 

Hello! You are INLOVE with the guy and waiting for his marriage to fall apart so you can swoop in and BE with him, marry him, make him your own.

 

You call your friendship with him a relationship.

You fill eachothers needs.

You are putting down his wife - This woman who carried his children. You are jealous of what they have, what he does for her.

 

How many women do it all? Many do while husbands don't lift a finger. He obviously has taken that role and there's nothing wrong with it. Just keep in mind you are hearing things from ONE side, what he wants you to know. I highly doubt she sits on her ass eating bon bons, while he does it all...

 

They have times when things are great and times when things are not good at all.

 

That is life! That is marriage! Hello, NO MARRIAGE is perfect, with both people happy 24/7.

 

There is no way you can be 'just' friends with him.

[KATANYA]

Read your post again and again. You will find the answers of "why" you cannot be "just friends" with him.

 

Hello! You are INLOVE with the guy and waiting for his marriage to fall apart so you can swoop in and BE with him, marry him, make him your own.

 

You call your friendship with him a relationship.

You fill eachothers needs.

You are putting down his wife - This woman who carried his children. You are jealous of what they have, what he does for her.

 

How many women do it all? Many do while husbands don't lift a finger. He obviously has taken that role and there's nothing wrong with it. Just keep in mind you are hearing things from ONE side, what he wants you to know. I highly doubt she sits on her ass eating bon bons, while he does it all...

 

 

Thank you for the thoughts but I need to correct you on a few things...understandably not all info. can be ascertained from my post.........I absolutely do love this man in many ways but I am very certain, in all matters and at all times, that I do not want to marry him and I do not want to, as you say, "swoop in and have him for my own". I feel that our friendship (relationship as it is) is our own and I am and have always been, comfortable with it exactly as is. Contrary to how you interprete my analogy of his wife, I am not jealous of her and yes, I know her and the entire family very very well. I have known his wife for many years as well and, although we are very different kinds of people, have always felt that she deserved more out of her life in so many ways but she has to want that too and I never could understand how any woman, regardless of the financial comforts, would want to be completely dependent on any man????(I think the same thing of men who do little and allow their wives to run all matters, make all decisions, etc..) Their home life is exactly as I described it, right down to him picking out and purchasing her hair dye and under garments - of course he has chosen this role and if it works for them, that's fabulous and nothing to do with me. Personally, I like picking out my own things, I like the freedom to decide what I do and when I do it, and I very much like to know that I am capable and able to look after myself and my children without ever fearing that if there was not someone there to do it all for me I would not have a clue how to do it! I know a lot of women who cater to their husbands in the same fashion and that is a choice people make......its just not for me. Personally, I will not marry again (not my MM for certain nor any of the other men I have dated or may date) but I think each person has their own views and own needs that either lead them to want to be married (regardless of how good or bad things are) or want to stay single.

 

My relationship with my MM started as a very strong friendship that was ongoing for more than 10 years before the A began. It is, to this day, still very much a friendship with none of the many issues I see raised in other A situations whereby I expect his calls, textmessages, visits, etc...........that has never been our focus or the immediate need. We have NEVER discussed being together forever romantically, even though he has often told me he wished he were in a position to be there for me and my kids during our tough times. He is very close to my children and that too has always been the case, even before the A began.......there were never any promises or commitments to these statements - simply a comment that he wants to make sure we are always safe, taken care of and want for nothing. When he can do for us, he does out of his own wants, never because I ask. Likewise, he knows I would do what I could for him and, yes, even his wife or children, if he asked. I do love this man and am most certainly in love with him in some ways but I would not change one thing about our relationship or our friendship and feel if either of us had to chose today between being in the A or being friends, we would both choose friends.

 

I know perhaps this is very different from other A's and relationships involving MM and OW but that is our relationship. If I meet a man that I want to date, I do, with no secrets about it and no regrets that I am "cheating" as it were on my MM. I don't have my life or thoughts on hold waiting for MM to suddenly be "available"...God, that would be such a terrible way to live. We may go for months without any physical contact but never stop being there for each other, talking daily, sharing situations, etc. I can't explain it any better other than we very much both love and respect each other as people knowing each others flaws and faults and limitations-and, somehow, it just works.

[whichwayisup]

I know her and the entire family very very well. I have known his wife for many years as well

 

Then if this is the case, then why not let her know how close you and her husband are? Why not include her with you two...Why do you share so much with HER husband, without her knowing? See, that is deceiving and not honest. A real, truthful and healthy friendship between a man and a woman (married or not) do not cross the lines, or talk about feelings, or tell intimate details of their sex lives, their marriages with eachother. IT IS JUST inappropriate behaviour for a married person to have such a close and emotionally intimate friendship. If you cannot understand this, then wait until you are married and your husband has a female friend, an emotional relationship with her, and see how you feel about it.

 

Sadly, you still don't get it...An emotionally involved friendship with a married person IS dangerous and you two cannot be so loving, caring and into eachother as 'just friends' after an affair. Especially since you both are still deceiving his wife.

[KATANYA]

My question was generalized about others and whether they managed to keep friendships after the A was over....not really intending to deal solely with my issue. However, to answer your questions/comments:

 

1.

[KATANYA]

My question was generalized about whether OW/OM managed to keep friendships after the A was over....not really intending to deal solely with my issue. However, to answer your questions/comments:

 

1. His wife does know that he and I are close friends. At one time, before there was actually a PA, she was quite jealous of me and I was very respectful and careful to keep my distance and not threaten anyone's comfort zone. She and he do not share the same interests and hobbies. He has joined activities that she likes to do in order for them to spend time together (she likes bridge so he joined even though he does not really enjoy it - but he takes her each week, he plays each week, and she has a wonderful time-so he is happy! She likes going to spas and weekend trips shopping; he hates to shop but dutifully plans each trip and carries the bags without a word) - On his part, he does take her to any of his functions and events she will attend but she says she does not enjoy being in a crowd, does not like to dress up, can't stand to cook for guests and does not like entertaining and his job is very much one that involves being in the public. She is invited to and encouraged to come on any trips that he goes on-not just by him but by other spouses, co-workers etc. Sometimes she does and we are all together (along with others) but most times she prefers to stay at home, hang with her friends, go out with her group, etc. If she is present, she is included and welcomed by all, including myself, and I believe seems to have a good time. She does not like when he needs to work but that is because she says she is bored waiting in the hotel room and won't go out until he or one of us is free to go out with her.

 

I would not tell her of any intimate involvement with MM nor would I put either of them in the position that our friendship would be seen as a threat to their relationship.........if you can begin to understand this, my relationship with MM and her relationship with her H are two very separate things. MM and his W have been together for going on 27 years.....they married whe she was very young and have four children who are all but grown. They have both strayed in the past and both stay in the relationship for reasons only the two of them will ever truly know....my guess is comfort???? I do not try to analyze why because it does not matter to me and does not involve me. I do not think they have been "in love" in a very long time. But, in all fairness, I don't know of many couples that have been together a long time that would use the term "in love" anyway. I think both have hurt each other over the years - as happens in any relationship. Who knows, maybe she doesn't want to take part in his life because when he is away she has someone else as well....and good for her if she does.

 

A real, truthful and healthy friendship between a man and a woman (married or not) do not cross the lines, or talk about feelings, or tell intimate details of their sex lives, their marriages with eachother

 

I'm sorry I disagree with you on this comment. I have friends (women and men) who certainly do talk about things like feelings and sex lives and I don't think they do so to be inapproriate but to share thoughts and feelings and get support - just like women and women or men and men do. I happen to work with three men and we travel a great deal together. There have been many times that the men have vented their frustrations, feelings over situations etc. with me simply to get a female opinion. I don't see anything wrong with that kind of friendship. And just like my friendships with women, what they tell me I keep in confidence.

 

Finally, and not that it really matters, I have been married twice. Once very young to a man who did cheat on me and once for many years to a man who turned out to be extremely abusive to both myself and my children. I have learned the very hard way how to take care of myself and my children and have promised myself that I would always be able to care for myself, regardless of where relationships take me in the future. In this particular case, I am not saying my A with a MM is in any way acceptable and I am not trying to convince anyone else that it is either......my friendship/relationship is one that has grown over many years, that I did not anticipate or expect, but one that is based on a very deep caring and love for each other - and with neither of us wanting to see the other hurt any more that each has been. And yes, if the A ended tomorrow, by either of us, I truly believe we will continue to be friends because we have been friends for a very long time and, not unlike a marriage, we have a great deal of memories and history together - most of which have nothing to do with the A or the intimate relationship that has developed in the last two years.

[whichwayisup]

I would not tell her of any intimate involvement with MM nor would I put either of them in the position that our friendship would be seen as a threat to their relationship.........

 

So, instead you two hide it.

I'm sorry I disagree with you on this comment.

 

Again, you two hide it. Disagree all you want, fact is, this woman has NO idea that you and her husband had an affair. Sure, she thinks the friendship is and has been totally innocent and platonic. You both know it hasn't and even right now it isn't just platonic. The feelings are there and continually grow.

 

If his wife were to find out you two had an affair, and it ended, then you two continued to BE friends, close friends like you are now - Damn right his wife would be making him choose between you and her, rightfully so. You may not look at your 'friendship' with him as a threat to their marriage, but it is.

 

If the situation was reversed, you better believe that he wouldn't want some OM being close with his wife after the affair ended and she chose to keep the friendship going.

 

Anyway, it's your life, you're going to do what you're going to do.

[OpenBook]

I also disagree with wwiu. The W knows her H strays. And she chooses to stay with him. He loves her well. Katanya accepts the situation for what it is, and gets a lot out of their friendship. All parties are happy with the way things are. Why rock the boat?

[LucreziaBorgia]

All parties are happy with the way things are. Why rock the boat?

 

Accepting something that you feel you have no power to change and being happy about it are two different things. I don't expect the W is happy staying with her H while she thinks he is out f*cking around. I expect that she accepts that he probably is, and stays with him IN SPITE of this, not because she is happy with it.