Too much to ask?

[DumpedButFighting]

First off, thank you everyone who's posting man-up support messages on these boards, that helps so, so much.

 

Wife dropped the 'want to be independent' bombshell a couple of months ago now, as seems the norm here, out of the blue, to me at least.

 

I can see why, I think. I've worn myself pretty thin over the past few years, been supporting her emotionally and financially as she switches jobs and goes on courses trying to find job that she finds rewarding. I've been encouraging her and trying to build her self-confidence. Meantime I've been trying to learn a new language and a new country and working hard to get us a house of our own. So effort paid off she got a good job, which she loves, loads of travel around the world. We got a house, one that needs a lot of work, but will be nice. I'm just thinking, at last, I can relax a bit I can do something for me, maybe I can lean on her a bit now and do a course myself to get out of my current job .... bang, bombshell dropped.

 

I don't know whether there is an affair in the mix, or she just turned into career woman or what, finding I don't really care, what hurts is that she's leaving me high and dry and now her new work friends are encouraging her to think about how much she can cash the marriage in for.

 

With help from my Dad and these forums I've just about kept myself together after initially being floored. I've made sure she's the one who's leaving our current place. I've spent a ton of cash on myself and doing stuff I love again. I'm being polite to her, but not doing her any favours and ignoring demands, it feels great most of the time. All of that is starting to have the predicted effect but she told everyone she's leaving and has paid a deposit so she's moving out in the next few days.

 

I questioning now whether I would want her back even if she did turn around. My question is to the wealth of experience on these boards is, have I brought this on myself by giving to much and not looking after myself enough? I figured, wrongly, my effort would be appreciated. Are there women out there who stand by you even if they see you looking worn out or would this happen every time no matter who the woman is?

[Missy27]

Off to work so can't stop long ~

 

Most women check out of a marriage LONG before it's actually over ~ and to be honest ~ they usually have someone else on the sidelines waiting for them before actually up sticks and leaving ~ sounds like your W may have started gettin a little puddin from one of the guys at this new job she loves ~

 

She's watched you slug your guts out supporting her for years and then drops this one on you ~ ? ~ See a lawyer straight away ~ I'm assuming from your thread that there are no kids involved which is a blessing ~ but find out where you stand in legal terms and then serve her with divorce papers ~ pronto ~ if she's serious about leaving you then show her you're serious about getting her to sign on the dotted line.

 

If my Husband did anything like that to me ~ ? Well the others on here know what I'd do ~ and it wouldn't be pretty ~ Pack his ***** up, dump it outside and tell him to go make like helicopter ~ AND stick to it ~ That's me though and I dont got time for half a$$ed efforts at relationships ~ ~ If my H said he was done with me after I'd just spent years supporting his backside, he'd be served with divorce papers quicker that you could say "call my attorney" ~ Fortunately or Unfortunately as the case may be ~ men seem to be able to stick at things better than women these days ~ alot of women seem to plagued by what Gunny calls FBS (Flakey Broad Syndrome) ~ and their walking out on men left right and centre ~ its a sad job ~ it really is.

 

You'll get some good advice from some GREAT women on here ~ and the guys who've been through this will hopefull chip in and help you ~ I would suggest taking a look at some of the threads from them on here ~ (I've got some I can dig out for you somewhere ~ but haven't got time now)

 

For now ~ keep yourself wired together and get some sleep ~ you gotta hell of a ride going on and you need to look after yourself if you're gonna make it through.

[Woggle]

Be glad to rid of her because she is not worth one teardrop and get yourself a pitbull lawyer. Prepare for battle and fight for your rights. There are women who will stick by your side but they few and far in between. I must say I respect Missy for being honest about how many women are. A lot of women get offended when you point out the truth but I can respect who can face the truth about how many of her fellow female are just not worth it.

[Ladyjane14]

....have I brought this on myself by giving to much and not looking after myself enough? I figured, wrongly, my effort would be appreciated. Are there women out there who stand by you even if they see you looking worn out or would this happen every time no matter who the woman is?

 

If you type into your browser, "why women leave men, marriagebuiders", you'll find an article there which can provide you with some insight.

 

Based on what you've posted here, it's impossible to know if she's cheating or not. I've noticed that when men leave, there's usually another woman waiting in the wings, but not in every case. More often than not, a guy who's not cheating but still wants to leave is being sorely mistreated within the marriage. For a man like that, it's usually a VERY bad situation and any outside party witnessing it can SEE that it's bad.

 

But as stated in the article... women tend to leave when they feel neglected, sometimes they're cheating, sometimes they're not. And the situation doesn't have to be so bad that it would be obvious to anybody observing the dynamics of the relationship... it only has to seem bad to the woman who's leaving.

 

You can do EVERYTHING right... but when it comes to emotions, the truth is in the eye of the beholder. What actions you might have taken to help her feel encouraged and self-confident are meaningless unless she sees it the same way you do. If she doesn't, your intentions aren't her "truth".

 

Anyway, just because this woman flaked out doesn't necessarily mean you won't eventually find a more stable one. Sometimes it's just not possible to fulfill a partner emotionally to the extent they don't feel emotionally neglected. Individuals vary on what makes them feel fulfilled, and some people are just soooooo darn needy that nothing you do will keep them happy for long.

 

So, no... I don't think this happened because you provided too much to her or because you were too giving within the relationship. I think it's more likely that for reasons beyond your ken, she found the marriage to be less than fulfilling in emotional terms and has abandoned it, either to find fulfillment in her career or with another guy. Impossible to say which.

[DumpedButFighting]

Ladyjane, the article makes sense, I'm guilty of railroading some decisions when I've not had much argument, will remember the enthusiastic agreement thing for the future (whoever that may be with). There have been times in the past when she's gone 'quiet' and I've managed to wean the problem out of her and find out its something so small and simple for me do to me I can't believe it caused so much drama or else a basic misunderstanding. She does communicate stuff on occasion but it's hard to figure what's just a niggle and what's a real rub. She's a bottle-up and blow-up type, not just with me, with friends and previous jobs. The new job she has, has been long hours and lots of travel to every corner of the world from the start, so I guess with that and me being worn out, I've just not picked up the warning signs.

 

There is definitely something between her and her (married) boss who she does all the travelling with, whether that's just 'emotional' or gone further I can't prove either way so its a moot point.

 

Anyhow, no-one said it would be plain sailing and we both have to make mistakes and learn things along the way, which is where you need sticking power, which she clearly doesn't have much of.

 

Whatever the root cause, whether she's cheating or not, from what I've read and been told, the best course of action for everything seems to be look after yourself and let them experience exactly what its like without you and let the rest play itself out.

[LakesideDream]

If you type into your browser, "why women leave men, marriagebuiders", you'll find an article there which can provide you with some insight.

 

Based on what you've posted here, it's impossible to know if she's cheating or not. I've noticed that when men leave, there's usually another woman waiting in the wings, but not in every case. More often than not, a guy who's not cheating but still wants to leave is being sorely mistreated within the marriage. For a man like that, it's usually a VERY bad situation and any outside party witnessing it can SEE that it's bad.

 

But as stated in the article... women tend to leave when they feel neglected, sometimes they're cheating, sometimes they're not. And the situation doesn't have to be so bad that it would be obvious to anybody observing the dynamics of the relationship... it only has to seem bad to the woman who's leaving.

 

You can do EVERYTHING right... but when it comes to emotions, the truth is in the eye of the beholder. What actions you might have taken to help her feel encouraged and self-confident are meaningless unless she sees it the same way you do. If she doesn't, your intentions aren't her "truth".

 

Anyway, just because this woman flaked out doesn't necessarily mean you won't eventually find a more stable one. Sometimes it's just not possible to fulfill a partner emotionally to the extent they don't feel emotionally neglected. Individuals vary on what makes them feel fulfilled, and some people are just soooooo darn needy that nothing you do will keep them happy for long.

 

So, no... I don't think this happened because you provided too much to her or because you were too giving within the relationship. I think it's more likely that for reasons beyond your ken, she found the marriage to be less than fulfilling in emotional terms and has abandoned it, either to find fulfillment in her career or with another guy. Impossible to say which.

 

Congrat's LJ, that was one of the most lucid posts I've every read!

[Gunny376]

Not to "water down anything that's been posted alredy, but when women cheat? Its more times than not some joker they meet through work and/or someone the DH is at least aquainted with.

 

To the OP, you could go out and find yourself another woman and do the same thing that you did with the DW, and even more ~ and they would be like: "Where have you been all my life?!"

 

Along with what LJ and Missy have posted its really not just about your being a man and how much you gave, nor about her being a woman and how much she took and used & abused you.

 

Some people are just naturally self-centered and selfish, incapable of the same level of committment that you are.

 

Personally? I think she's gotten to the "jet-set" life along with company paid expense accounts. She's living in a face paced life, that in the end really doesn't have a great of deal to return emotionally. Oh sure its fun and exciting in the beginning ~ but it gets damned old quick, fast in a hurry like.

 

What I would recommend you do is declaring your emotional independecnce. That core within you that "wants" a compainion ~ but doens't need one. That enjoys "valadation" from another ~ but doesn't require it!

 

Identify and come to terms with your emotional needs, and fill them yourself. It possible to do, but it requires a very strong sense of self! And it requires work.

 

Is there someone out there that can and will appreciate you for you? More than likely ~ yes! But, if not? Who cares. Its not just about what you have to offer someone ~ but what they got to offer you ~ and I'm very selective about who I let enjoy what I have to offer. And I have a lot to offer the right woman. In fact I know for a fact that I have more to offer most women than most women have to offer ~ and that's not just some stuck-up Jarhead talking ~ its because I've studied relationships, men & women, sex, seducation, romance, and continue to do so. That seeking knowledge is what brought me to LS to begin with! And, I've learned a lot since I've been here!

 

None of us were born with what we needed to know to make a relationship/marriage work! NONE of us! Most of our parents and relatives are poor examples! We're not taught it in HS nor College. In fact? You could have a PhD in why marriages fail ~ and still not know why yours failed! Look at "Dear Abby!" She to ended up divorce court!

 

Look at Ted Turner and Donald Trump? If a couple of billion dollars can't get you to "here and forever after?" What can?

 

Did you give it and her your best? Did you do all that you could do, and knew to do at the time? If so ~ let it go! Just let it be!

 

Granted! For the experience ~ in the future you'll do better. For now? Quit beating yourself up about it! Quit sticking at it with a sharp pointed stick to see if its alive or dead.

 

Learn from it! Grow from it! Turn it in a postive! Be pro-active in your life. Learn what the "Life-traps" are!

Learn how to identify "red-flags" Learn that "sex" too early in the relationshp is a killer of LTR.

 

The next LTR you get into ~ you've got to get it in her head that just because you touch her, hug her, hold her hand, kiss her ~ doesn't mean you want sex, but that you love her, admire her, cherish her, appreciate her!

 

Mind you! That's a fine line ~ a razor's edge you have to walk. Its called building "trust" and "confidence"

 

You have to build a relationship ~ just like a house! To do so? You've got to lay a good solid foundation! That means being friends, then good friends, then best friends, then exclusive best friends, the best friends!

 

Friendship is what hold you together when you "fall out of love" and its because that friendship is so rare, and so hard to find that you fight to hold onto it!

 

You've got to look at this from a woman's point of view?! From the time they're born, some joker's trying to get into their pants ~ for many even before they sprouted their first pubic hair! They're degraded to being a VLSS ~ a Vaginal Life Support System ~ a piece of meat! That's why child molestation is so vile ~ why rape is so vile! It reduces you to less than a piece of meat! Less than a person! Less than a human being!

For the sexual gradification of sub-humans!

 

You want to control a woman? Get to know her, understand her, appreciate her, admire her, valiadte her not just as a woman? But as a person, as an individual!

As part of the human race! Get her to do the same! Get her to understand ~ to comprehend that she is a person of worth, of value, that makes a contribution to the human race, for being here, Hell! Just for showing up!

 

And then do the same for her! Surrender to her!

 

They've got a word for it? Its called "TRUST!"

[VIP]

You've got to look at this from a woman's point of view?! From the time they're born, some joker's trying to get into their pants ~ for many even before they sprouted their first pubic hair! They're degraded to being a VLSS ~ a Vaginal Life Support System ~ a piece of meat! That's why child molestation is so vile ~ why rape is so vile! It reduces you to less than a piece of meat! Less than a person! Less than a human being!

For the sexual gradification of sub-humans!

 

You want to control a woman? Get to know her, understand her, appreciate her, admire her, valiadte her not just as a woman? But as a person, as an individual!

As part of the human race! Get her to do the same! Get her to understand ~ to comprehend that she is a person of worth, of value, that makes a contribution to the human race, for being here, Hell! Just for showing up!

 

I don't think women think about themselves as of a piece of meat. No, absolutely not. More often than not women think about men in these terms. They also don't think about themselves as not having worth or value.

[Ladyjane14]

I don't think women think about themselves as of a piece of meat. No, absolutely not. More often than not women think about men in these terms. They also don't think about themselves as not having worth or value.

 

I don't think Gunny's saying that women view themselves as "a piece of meat", I think what he's saying is that they sometimes view the men in their lives as treating them as if they were. It's a matter of perception. If you view a guy as treating you like a VLSS, he may as well be for all the difference it makes, because that's how you SEE him and that's how you'll react to him.

 

A guy who's intent has been misinterpreted by his partner, has often run up against a preconceived notion which was set in girlhood... that men just want to get in our pants. A good man who just wants healthy emotional and sexual intimacy with his partner can easily end up "paying" for the crimes of some callow boy who just wanted to get laid.

 

To disarm a woman who's in that mindset, a good man needs to make sure she's getting the message that he values her as an individual. If I'm understanding correctly, I think that's all Gunny's telling us.

 

 

(Thx Lakeside. )

[Woggle]

It is damn near impossible to disarm a woman in that mindset. If a woman is determined to make me pay for what some other man did to her she is not worth the drama.

[Ladyjane14]

It is damn near impossible to disarm a woman in that mindset. If a woman is determined to make me pay for what some other man did to her she is not worth the drama.

 

You've never been there though, Wog. You're not a woman.

 

Societally, we give girls this message... "boys will USE you for sex if you allow it". And then, boys run right out and prove the truth of it over and over again.

 

What are you going to tell your daughter if you have one?

Are you going to warn her that boys are learning about their own sexuality and practicing on girls? ..That if she's not careful she will be objectified for the sake of another's sexual gratification. Because often enough it's true, particularly among youths.

 

There comes a point in life though, where boys become men and girls become women, and everybody's supposed to grow up and behave responsibly toward one another. But still, there's that leftover programming to deal with, a societal hypnosis that no longer holds water in a healthy and loving relationship. Worse yet, there's occasional reinforcement of it in less than healthy relationships.

 

It seems to me, that the solution to overcoming this programming is to establish that the relationship really IS "healthy and loving" in it's intent.

 

The answer isn't always to just cut and run, Wog. Not if one values the person they're with.

[Woggle]

I am not a woman and I am not saying cut and run is always the answer but my view is that if a woman is intentionally causing me pain and strife I don't need her in my life. If a woman is putting thoughts in my head that are not there it is no use even trying to reason with her. I am willing to answer for my actions but I am not willing to answer for a woman's paranoid delusions. If I even think about marrying a woman she is a lot more than just a sex object to me. It looks this guy's wife just wants to live the single life and thinks that the grass is greener. She also might be having an affair or her friends are influencing her. When a man's wife starts hanging out with a bunch of single and divorced women that is a red flag. If I were him I get a great lawyer and say good riddance to a no good woman.

[Chrome Barracuda]

First off, thank you everyone who's posting man-up support messages on these boards, that helps so, so much.

 

Wife dropped the 'want to be independent' bombshell a couple of months ago now, as seems the norm here, out of the blue, to me at least.

 

I can see why, I think. I've worn myself pretty thin over the past few years, been supporting her emotionally and financially as she switches jobs and goes on courses trying to find job that she finds rewarding. I've been encouraging her and trying to build her self-confidence. Meantime I've been trying to learn a new language and a new country and working hard to get us a house of our own. So effort paid off she got a good job, which she loves, loads of travel around the world. We got a house, one that needs a lot of work, but will be nice. I'm just thinking, at last, I can relax a bit I can do something for me, maybe I can lean on her a bit now and do a course myself to get out of my current job .... bang, bombshell dropped.

 

I don't know whether there is an affair in the mix, or she just turned into career woman or what, finding I don't really care, what hurts is that she's leaving me high and dry and now her new work friends are encouraging her to think about how much she can cash the marriage in for.

 

With help from my Dad and these forums I've just about kept myself together after initially being floored. I've made sure she's the one who's leaving our current place. I've spent a ton of cash on myself and doing stuff I love again. I'm being polite to her, but not doing her any favours and ignoring demands, it feels great most of the time. All of that is starting to have the predicted effect but she told everyone she's leaving and has paid a deposit so she's moving out in the next few days.

 

I questioning now whether I would want her back even if she did turn around. My question is to the wealth of experience on these boards is, have I brought this on myself by giving to much and not looking after myself enough? I figured, wrongly, my effort would be appreciated. Are there women out there who stand by you even if they see you looking worn out or would this happen every time no matter who the woman is?

 

Dude , after reading all of that, why would you want her back?

 

You cannot fix her and her issues are beyond your means of changing them. Woggle is right. If she has baggage and is putting it on your sholders unfairly, why put up with her bull****? You dont owe her.

 

I been with women like this always saying stuff about their ex and talking bout men aint no good I'm an independant woman.

 

Bitch please, that feminist rederich, might play over at the lilith fair but not where I'm from. Either you play fair or not at all. I dont let my past baggage get in the way of a decent relationship. If I meet a woman I use a clean slate. And I do not compare her to others! Women often do that subconsciously , not saying men dont do that but let's be real when alot of chicks got issues. They always seem to be in some form still attached to their ex and a whole lotta BS.

 

Long story short is you need to just do for yourself! forget her. move on.

Why would you even want a woman who's a coward to leave and without even a justification of why she left. It isnt you! It's her!

[Ladyjane14]

I am willing to answer for my actions but I am not willing to answer for a woman's paranoid delusions.

But don't you think it's nice of your wife to put up with yours?

 

After what you've experienced in childhood, you've developed a certain amount of warped thinking regarding women in general, a hypnosis not dissimilar to what we're talking about here. And if your wife weren't willing to have a certain amount of understanding where that's concerned, if she weren't willing to work with you on it... where would you be?

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

It looks this guy's wife just wants to live the single life and thinks that the grass is greener. She also might be having an affair or her friends are influencing her. When a man's wife starts hanging out with a bunch of single and divorced women that is a red flag.

You're right. We're getting off topic. And I agree... there are some red flags here, particularly insomuch as the OP has been able to pinpoint a possible attraction in the form of his WW's boss.

[Woggle]

The difference is I realize that I am wrong when I comare her to what other women have done to me and I vent on this board so I don't do something wrong and unfair to her. I know it is me and not her. On the other hand many womenbuild up all this resentment against a man while his intentions are for the moat part good with her. Unless a man is an abuser, a cheater or an all around ******* for the most part all a woman has to is talk to him. I just don't see why men should even bother with women who could cause them pain and feel no remorse about it. It's just not worth it and I would rather spend my energy on a woman who will truly appreciate it.

[Ladyjane14]

The difference is I realize that I am wrong when I comare her to what other women have done to me and I vent on this board so I don't do something wrong and unfair to her.

 

I'm not talking about this particular situation, Wog... just generalities.

And in general, it's pretty easy for a woman to get it into her head that men are only interested in a woman for the purpose of sexual gratification.

 

We're taught this from the cradle. It's cemented by our early experiences with callow boys, and occasionally reinforced by bad relationships in adulthood.

 

How would a woman KNOW she was wrong about her hypnosis regarding intimate emotional/sexual relationships unless some man took the time to SHOW her differently?

[Woggle]

It is not my job to teach women that good men exist if they don't know it already. These same women love to ditch the good for the ones that use them they don't get very much sympathy from me.

[Ladyjane14]

It is not my job to teach women that good men exist if they don't know it already. These same women love to ditch the good for the ones that use them they don't get very much sympathy from me.

 

I hope your love for your own wife is bigger than that. So that if she ever errs in her thinking that you'll take the time to straighten things out with her.

 

Maybe if you could picture a circumstance in which your own partner might be influenced by misinformation, you'd understand why so many of these guys are willing to at least TRY to reconcile their marriages.

[Missy27]

I'm not talking about this particular situation, Wog... just generalities.

 

And in general, it's pretty easy for a woman to get it into her head that men are only interested in a woman for the purpose of sexual gratification.

 

We're taught this from the cradle. It's cemented by our early experiences with callow boys, and occasionally reinforced by bad relationships in adulthood

 

This is very true - I remember when I was in my teens and started to explore my own sexuality and for the first time "notice" boys ~ the information that was installed into me from a wee babee was that boys are only after one thing ~ it proved to become somewhat of an obstacle for me as I begain to evolve as a sexually active human being because this installment of thinking led me to believe that if I did explore my sexuality, I was somehow breaking a rule and it left me feeling guilty ~

 

Soon got over that though ~ I am a sexual devant with him indoors now ~ :laugh:

 

Anyway ~ back on topic .....

[Gunny376]

I don't think Gunny's saying that women view themselves as "a piece of meat", I think what he's saying is that they sometimes view the men in their lives as treating them as if they were. It's a matter of perception. If you view a guy as treating you like a VLSS, he may as well be for all the difference it makes, because that's how you SEE him and that's how you'll react to him.

 

A guy who's intent has been misinterpreted by his partner, has often run up against a preconceived notion which was set in girlhood... that men just want to get in our pants. A good man who just wants healthy emotional and sexual intimacy with his partner can easily end up "paying" for the crimes of some callow boy who just wanted to get laid.

 

To disarm a woman who's in that mindset, a good man needs to make sure she's getting the message that he values her as an individual. If I'm understanding correctly, I think that's all Gunny's telling us.

 

Nothing more, nothing less

[Gunny376]

It is a man job to teach his SO/Wife, that every time he gives her a hug, a loving touch, a kiss on the neck, holds her hand that he's not just pursuing sex!

 

Many women love the foreplay of sex as much as they do the act itself.

 

If everytime you touch your SO/Wife, you're send the single that all your after is sex, you're just reinforcing a since childhood preconceived conditioning. Why not be loving just for the sake of being loving, carressing, and fulfilling her emotional needs. Why not reinforce that she's a desirable, individual as well as a woman?

[VIP]

This is very true - I remember when I was in my teens and started to explore my own sexuality and for the first time "notice" boys ~ the information that was installed into me from a wee babee was that boys are only after one thing ~ it proved to become somewhat of an obstacle for me as I begain to evolve as a sexually active human being because this installment of thinking led me to believe that if I did explore my sexuality, I was somehow breaking a rule and it left me feeling guilty ~

 

If you are looking to explore your sexuality, you are also after one thing only. If women didn't have sex without first developing a relationship, they wouldn't be used for sex only.

If all men are after sex, then all women are after money, and the second is worse.

[Woggle]

It is a man job to teach his SO/Wife, that every time he gives her a hug, a loving touch, a kiss on the neck, holds her hand that he's not just pursuing sex!

 

Many women love the foreplay of sex as much as they do the act itself.

 

If everytime you touch your SO/Wife, you're send the single that all your after is sex, you're just reinforcing a since childhood preconceived conditioning. Why not be loving just for the sake of being loving, carressing, and fulfilling her emotional needs. Why not reinforce that she's a desirable, individual as well as a woman?

 

Because I am not a knight in shining armor. If a woman after everything still can't see that I care about her that is her problem. Luckily my wife is one of the rare women that enjoys sex for the sake of sex. Most of these so called liberated sexual women still see sex as a weapon against men.

[Missy27]

post deleted

[tinke]

outstanding post gunny!

 

trust is key in any healthy relationship. plus, admiration of ALL qualities, not just a turn-on, but her intelligence, contributions to the relationship and so on.

 

dumpedbutfighting...in my own personal experiences, i would agree that another is not necessarily in the picture IF it is a new relationship. however, i believe in an established one, there is someone else luring them away. if not, i would think at least they would be willing to discuss their discontent and work on issues. as one poster said...it is easier to let go of one branch while holding onto another.

 

think about it....why out of the blue, with all those emotions involved would someone just get up and leave..no talks, no remorse. UNLESS...there is hope and promise of someone fresh and new (a rescuer). sorry. i know this whole situation must be very painful.

 

keep posting, the folks here are a Godsend!