Involved with a MM

[Ariadne]

Hey,

 

Agreed... They would rather stay (and have EMAs) than rock the boat...no matter how unhappy they are.

 

Yes. Men are made with some "put up with anything" bone or something.

 

Is very hard for a man to walk out on a woman. No matter how horrible his life is, he'll think of something nice, like, that day when she was having icecream and said something cute.

 

Something about endurance and sacrifice and loyalty to the cause.

 

Ariadne

[GreenEyedLady]

I speak from experiece right now. My H is not happy and I believe he had an affair and may be in love with her. No matter what, he will not leave unless I make it happen. He will stay in our pretend world and act like an ass to me rather than stand on his own two feet and leave.

 

Let the wife find out, she will eventually leave him. Not right off the bat and you may loose your MM when he realizes she wants out. But in time, she will leave, too hard to live with cheating a-- holes !

 

You know, I actually think is very true in a lot of R's...

[Onelife]

He may leave his wife, he may not - but understand this: chances are he won't leave and he will say that he can't leave "because of the children". Here are a few things to consider.

 

When a MM considers leaving, these fears (and I word them in the way that their worst fears interpret them) loom large in his mind:

 

1. That he will be demoting himself down to a part time parent. No parent wants to voluntarily walk out of their children's lives for any reason.

 

2. That their children will come to think that Dad felt that a piece of strange p*ssy was more important than being in their lives full time.

 

3. That Mom will tell the children #2 above, along with stuff like "if Daddy loved you, he wouldn't have left you", and the children will believe it.

 

4. That their own parents, family and peers will look down upon him and ostracize him for being a marital failure, a failure as a parent, and abandoning his children for a piece of ass.

 

5. That Mom will meet a man, and this man will replace him as Daddy - that one day at his daughter's wedding, she will pick that man to give her away at the wedding and not the Dad who walked out of her life for another woman - that one day his son will be thanking people at an award ceremony and he will thank this man for 'being there like the father I never had' (and so on - stuff like this are a departing parent's worst fears).

 

6. That his children will turn on him, and turn on his OW and refuse to accept the new relationship.

 

7. Child support and alimony. He will lose the lifestyle to which he is accustomed to be with you, and you will help foot the bill to support the wife and children that he left to be with you.

 

8. That his children will suffer in school, and subsequently in life - and become dysfunctional because their father broke their home, and walked out on them for another woman.

 

9. That Mom will prevent him from seeing his children ever again.

 

He may love you. He may want to be with you. But know this - when it comes to the idea of him breaking up his own family, love may not be enough. My guess? He'll keep you around as an OW for a long as possible and when you put the screws to him to leave, he'll simply let you walk away. Don't overestimate your place in his life, or underestimate his children's place in his life. Right now you are just an option, not a priority and you'll just have to accept that. Will you be a priority to him one day? Maybe, maybe not.

 

Sometimes they do leave, but they will not if there is even a faint possibility of any of the scenarios happening above. The scenarios above seem exaggerated, but since you aren't a parent you will never understand just how excruciating the process is in leaving. These scenarios may never happen, but trust me: it doesn't stop you from being afraid that they will.

 

Thank you LB for your nice summing up. Wow! You put it in words in the most realistic way. I will print this out and keep it for my reading. FWIW, it helps me rationalize my MM's actions.

Yes sometimes love is just not enough. In this situation anyway.

[OpenBook]

I speak from experiece right now. My H is not happy and I believe he had an affair and may be in love with her. No matter what, he will not leave unless I make it happen. He will stay in our pretend world and act like an ass to me rather than stand on his own two feet and leave.

 

I think a lot of men are like that. They'd rather the W divorce them then they come right out and say it!

 

You know, I actually think is very true in a lot of R's...

 

This is the part I don't get. Why Oh Why would any woman with an ounce of self-respect stay with a H who treated her like that??

 

Let the wife find out, she will eventually leave him. Not right off the bat and you may loose your MM when he realizes she wants out. But in time, she will leave, too hard to live with cheating a-- holes !

 

Then why are you still with yours??

[whichwayisup]

This is the part I don't get. Why Oh Why would any woman with an ounce of self-respect stay with a H who treated her like that??

 

And why oh why would any woman who is an OW with an ounce of respect want to BE with a man who treated his wife like that??

 

Goes both ways....

[Onelife]

Glad to hear that, at least. If my MM had never told me he loved me, promised me he would leave, said he would marry me, etc, it certainly would have been a lot less painless, in fact, I wouldn't have expected anything from him at all. He even told me that he'd told his W he was leaving. I don't believe he did to this day.

 

I hope you continue to be happy with your MM if that's what you want. When you find you can no longer cope with the not knowing, then is the time to get out!

 

Glad to hear that also. Living with the broken dreams and promises is the hardest thing. It would be easier if there were no talks of having "ours". Well....pain pain pain....for all party involved I might say. In a way, I am glad that it is what it is today. The love is still here but no more dream and promise so it won't be broken .

[LikeNoOther]

Glad to hear that also. Living with the broken dreams and promises is the hardest thing. It would be easier if there were no talks of having "ours". Well....pain pain pain....for all party involved I might say. In a way, I am glad that it is what it is today. The love is still here but no more dream and promise so it won't be broken .

 

LOL - yes.. you got that right! I'd rather dream of that new BMW 3 series - at least I know for a fact I can get it!

[LikeNoOther]

But to get back to the topic - LNO apologies for my misreading earlier (it's been a hectic day!) If it's HER third marriage than my points are invalid!

 

Hey no worries, OW! I thought that must be the case!

 

But given her age she's likely to cling, and not let him go easily. After three marriages, and with children, she probably knows her chances of landing someone for the long run are reduced if she lets this one go.

 

I don't think she'd let him go easily, yes. The thing is she has also told a few of our friends that she things are not the same and that she really isn't bothered to do anything about it. She lives for the kids and that's about it. So, sometimes I just wonder, why hang on to it? MM has suggested years ago to migrate somewhere and she said, he can go ahead - she's not going anywhere.

 

That said, it's not impossible that he leave. I've had a couple of As where MM have done exactly that, using the A as an escape hatch from an unhappy M, especially where they see they can attract a younger, more attractive woman than the current wife. If that's what you want?

 

I know, I have known a few MM who have been caught having As (apparently they wanted to be caught) and now they are happily married with their OW. If that happened to me, great... but if it doesn't then it's not the end of the world.

[LikeNoOther]

Big surprise was my agreeing to M in the first place

 

:lmao:

[LikeNoOther]

And why oh why would any woman who is an OW with an ounce of respect want to BE with a man who treated his wife like that??

 

Goes both ways....

 

Oh yes it does go both ways!!

[PoshPrincess]

Hey,

 

Agreed... They would rather stay (and have EMAs) than rock the boat...no matter how unhappy they are.

 

Yes. Men are made with some "put up with anything" bone or something.

 

Is very hard for a man to walk out on a woman. No matter how horrible his life is, he'll think of something nice, like, that day when she was having icecream and said something cute.

 

Something about endurance and sacrifice and loyalty to the cause.

 

Ariadne

 

Ariadne, I think they just enjoy playing the martyr. I said that to MM once but he didn't know what a martyr was!!!! Hmmm, remind me why I love him again.......?

[OpenBook]

And why oh why would any woman who is an OW with an ounce of respect want to BE with a man who treated his wife like that??

 

I really don't think you want to know the answer to that...

[frannie]

And why oh why would any woman who is an OW with an ounce of respect want to BE with a man who treated his wife like that??

 

Goes both ways....

 

I suppose if it's another woman (his W, who he's supposedly 'grown apart' from) he's doing it to, and it's not you, then there's the difference.

 

I personally would find it a lot harder on my self-esteem to stay with a man who had cheated on me, than I do to be with a man who is cheating on another. That doesn't mean to say I'm enthused about the way he's behaving, AT ALL. Nor am I in any way excusing it. But while it 'cuts both ways', it doesn't cut equally. Not from my point of view.

 

Then again, while I personally don't believe I'd stay with someone who cheated on me, many women with self-respect do exactly that. And often, guess what, it's because they want the family to be intact. Not because they think they can't do any better, or 'have no self-respect'.

 

There's an awful lot of accusations of 'having no self-respect' thrown around on LS. It comes down to being a way of kicking people who make choices that you THINK you wouldn't make yourself. Plain and simple.

[frannie]

He may leave his wife, he may not - but understand this: chances are he won't leave and he will say that he can't leave "because of the children". Here are a few things to consider.

 

When a MM considers leaving, these fears (and I word them in the way that their worst fears interpret them) loom large in his mind:

 

1. That he will be demoting himself down to a part time parent. No parent wants to voluntarily walk out of their children's lives for any reason.

 

2. That their children will come to think that Dad felt that a piece of strange p*ssy was more important than being in their lives full time.

 

3. That Mom will tell the children #2 above, along with stuff like "if Daddy loved you, he wouldn't have left you", and the children will believe it.

 

4. That their own parents, family and peers will look down upon him and ostracize him for being a marital failure, a failure as a parent, and abandoning his children for a piece of ass.

 

5. That Mom will meet a man, and this man will replace him as Daddy - that one day at his daughter's wedding, she will pick that man to give her away at the wedding and not the Dad who walked out of her life for another woman - that one day his son will be thanking people at an award ceremony and he will thank this man for 'being there like the father I never had' (and so on - stuff like this are a departing parent's worst fears).

 

6. That his children will turn on him, and turn on his OW and refuse to accept the new relationship.

 

7. Child support and alimony. He will lose the lifestyle to which he is accustomed to be with you, and you will help foot the bill to support the wife and children that he left to be with you.

 

8. That his children will suffer in school, and subsequently in life - and become dysfunctional because their father broke their home, and walked out on them for another woman.

 

9. That Mom will prevent him from seeing his children ever again.

 

He may love you. He may want to be with you. But know this - when it comes to the idea of him breaking up his own family, love may not be enough. My guess? He'll keep you around as an OW for a long as possible and when you put the screws to him to leave, he'll simply let you walk away. Don't overestimate your place in his life, or underestimate his children's place in his life. Right now you are just an option, not a priority and you'll just have to accept that. Will you be a priority to him one day? Maybe, maybe not.

 

Sometimes they do leave, but they will not if there is even a faint possibility of any of the scenarios happening above. The scenarios above seem exaggerated, but since you aren't a parent you will never understand just how excruciating the process is in leaving. These scenarios may never happen, but trust me: it doesn't stop you from being afraid that they will.

 

This is a fabulous post, with an awful lot of good sense talked in it. I'd like to see it pinned at the top of the forum for 'information'... (although obviously no MM contemplating divorce will be doing it for 'strange p*ussy')

 

... of course not many people would take notice of it, since it's not all about whether he 'loves me enough to leave'. On the contrary, it's about some of the things that men actually worry about when they have children. These are the reasons that men 'stay for the kids'... Some of them are certainly fears that my MM has voiced to me, knowing they're 'irrational'... doesn't make them disappear.

 

That's true of (1), (4) and (8), although obviously he doesn't refer to me in the derogatory sense LB mentioned here. But even if the OW were the love of his life, more virginal than Mary, etc, etc, the points about abandonment, shunning, and fear of rejection by his kids loom large.

 

And in (7), LB you missed out the fact that reduced income means the kids themselves will have less, which is also a huge factor when considering leaving.

 

But overall, good points that OW should consider when wondering whether a man is going to abandon his W and C for a new life... no, most men don't want to do that. It looks wrong, it feels wrong. Completely different situation than a woman is in in facing divorce (generalising, of course).

[sadbuttrue]

I suppose if it's another woman (his W, who he's supposedly 'grown apart' from) he's doing it to, and it's not you, then there's the difference.

 

I personally would find it a lot harder on my self-esteem to stay with a man who had cheated on me, than I do to be with a man who is cheating on another. That doesn't mean to say I'm enthused about the way he's behaving, AT ALL. Nor am I in any way excusing it. But while it 'cuts both ways', it doesn't cut equally. Not from my point of view.

 

Then again, while I personally don't believe I'd stay with someone who cheated on me, many women with self-respect do exactly that. And often, guess what, it's because they want the family to be intact. Not because they think they can't do any better, or 'have no self-respect'.

 

There's an awful lot of accusations of 'having no self-respect' thrown around on LS. It comes down to being a way of kicking people who make choices that you THINK you wouldn't make yourself. Plain and simple.

 

 

very well said frannie, as always

[OpenBook]

Hey,

 

Agreed... They would rather stay (and have EMAs) than rock the boat...no matter how unhappy they are.

 

Yes. Men are made with some "put up with anything" bone or something.

 

Is very hard for a man to walk out on a woman. No matter how horrible his life is, he'll think of something nice, like, that day when she was having icecream and said something cute.

 

Something about endurance and sacrifice and loyalty to the cause.

 

Ariadne

 

Oh don't make me LAUGH. He's thinking about endurance, sacrifice and loyalty while he's sneaking around and lying to you and having sex with an OW??

[LikeNoOther]

I know a number of people from a broken family (parents divorced) who came out tops in class and also have professional careers.

[frannie]

I know a number of people from a broken family (parents divorced) who came out tops in class and also have professional careers.

 

No one said it was rational of the MM to think that way.

 

However, from what I've read, it seems that children often do better after divorce and have a better view of marriage, IF the marriage was rocky, there were arguments in front of the children, etc. It's not as simple as divorced vs. not divorced parents.

[sadbuttrue]

ob, i think MM do actually see themselves as sacrificing, enduring, and being loyal to the W by not leaving her for the OW. they are (in their minds) putting the W's needs before their own. i know that sounds strange, but i do think some feel this way. and a lot of men see lying to the W as protecting her from something that may cause her pain or any woman for that matter. men like to be protectors by nature.

[LucreziaBorgia]

the derogatory sense LB mentioned here.

 

That's why I was careful to put in bold that the wording is how your worst fears will taint them. People who are in a situation like that tend to beat themselves up, and think that others will beat them up over it too - and the wording is how the MM thinks others will perceive it, and that's how they'll think it of themselves. MM won't think of his OW as a piece of tail, but he will be afraid that others will and he will think in terms of the worst that people will think of him and his OW, and that will add to the fear as well.

 

I agree on that financial aspect - that is a big one, too.

 

I am going through a completely amicable uncontested divorce and getting ready to move in with my SO soon, and had those same fears, even though they were COMPLETELY unfounded, and still are. It didn't stop me (and stbxH as well) from having those thoughts creeping in when it came time to split to our separate apartments. After a few months, it is apparent that having those fears was a waste of time. I don't know how that would change for people facing nasty contested divorces, though. I expect those fears would be even greater. I don't envy anyone who has to make a decision like that. I completely understand why when faced with a decision, they either don't make one, or fall back down on the marriage side of the fence.

[Ariadne]

Hi,

 

Oh don't make me LAUGH. He's thinking about endurance, sacrifice and loyalty while he's sneaking around and lying to you and having sex with an OW??

 

Some may cheat, some may not.

 

But you see it on this board all the time, all the crap men put up with and never think of leaving.

 

They are being treated worse than dirt at times, or be in a miserable relationship, but think they are going to lose some prize if she leaves or dumps them.

 

And they seem in love even because of some thing they liked about her at some point.

 

Then they end up in a good relationship that makes them happier and realize the deal they had, but they never get there by themselves.

 

Ariadne

[MistressORToy]

I too am involved with a MM...we have been seeing one another for almost a yr He has said he wants to leave his wife..did in fact tell his W this back about 10mths ago and yet he is still at home And when I have seen the out in public his W seems to be as happy as she ever was...no indication of what i know he told her mths back. The W seems to be her usual smiling and happy to be with her H person she always was. Could she know of things and is "acting" this part because I do think she knows, and she knows who I am...yet she gives no outward signs of this, I just instictively feel she knows whats what.....How can he want to be with me and yet still be home after all this time and how is it his wife seems to be the same al always. I know he did not tell her of his A with me, yet somehow I think she knows...should I be alert to the "bomb" dropping and my world falling apart one day soon. Should I give him an ultimatum and see what he does?

[LikeNoOther]

Should I give him an ultimatum and see what he does?

 

How is he when he is with you? I don't think giving him an ultimatum would work. If I am not mistaken I did read your thread - I'm sorry to say this but from what you have written, it didn't look as if he would leave...

 

I suggest you ask him out right and if he really isn't leaving, then YOU should LEAVE him!! He has left you hanging far too long...

[reboot]

Do you really think advice in someone else's thread will be better than the advice in your own?

[TogetherForever]

I too am involved with a MM...we have been seeing one another for almost a yr He has said he wants to leave his wife..did in fact tell his W this back about 10mths ago and yet he is still at home And when I have seen the out in public his W seems to be as happy as she ever was...no indication of what i know he told her mths back. The W seems to be her usual smiling and happy to be with her H person she always was. Could she know of things and is "acting" this part because I do think she knows, and she knows who I am...yet she gives no outward signs of this, I just instictively feel she knows whats what.....How can he want to be with me and yet still be home after all this time and how is it his wife seems to be the same al always. I know he did not tell her of his A with me, yet somehow I think she knows...should I be alert to the "bomb" dropping and my world falling apart one day soon. Should I give him an ultimatum and see what he does?

 

 

MOT,

We are all giving you advice on this matter but you don't seem ready to accept it. You ask the same questions over & over on different threads.

I don't know what anyone else could possibly say to help you.

TF

(It is not always the way HE tells you it is)