everynameistaken Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 This thread is about a friend. Yes, a friend, not me. Shocking, but true. Has cheated on every woman he has ever been with and continues to do so with current girlfriend. Travels a lot and has opportunity. I think he will be getting engaged soon. He is in his early 40's and in that time of life, so he says, to marry. Love him to pieces in all aspects but one. My question is, how do you convince someone that marriage really is a time in life where all this nonsense stops? Probably can't be done, but is there any way to help him see the light? I suppose it doesn't help we are in the UK, where cheating seems to be more acceptable than in the States (lived in both). I consider his g/f a friend and struggle with her situation. She has no idea. Also, he doesn't want kids. She says she doesn't care, although I know this is only to pacify him so that he'll marry her. She's only 32. Irish Catholic. You get the idea. Just sensing impending disaster. How do I get through to him, or do I? I worry for her more than him. She deserves better. Hate to say that about him, but she does. Guys out there...anybody have this attitude earlier in life? Anything a friend can do to help?
MrsHellnoFire Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 so he says it's time to get married for him but wants to make no effort in quitting the affairs? wow.. also, if he doesn't want kids (which im surehis wife WILL ), what exactly is the point in marriage? Just for social + familial acceptance??
Tomcat33 Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 When we are posed with the question of what to do to help out a friend in a touchy situation it's good to determine what that friend would prefer. The g/f in question might be one of those people that knows, but just doens't wish "to know" if you get what I mean. SO when posed with this complex crossroad ask yourself, what would SHE prefer, would she prefer to know or not to know. Sometimes we think we are doing good by doing something that is based on our personal preferences and we neglect to see what is BEST for the other. If what is best for her, given her personal preferences is to know, then tell here, if she does not then I say let sleeping dogs lie. As to changing your guy friend from being a cheater, unfortunately we don't have that kind of power over people, people can only change themselves.
underpants Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 He might be your friend but do you respect his behaviour? How good of a friend do you consider him? For me the answer is simple. Honesty. I would let the intended bride know what she is getting into and let the chips fall where they may.
Author everynameistaken Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 I don't know the motivation of his marriage other than his AGE. It seems when he hit 40 recently, he just decided it's time. NO rationale other than that. I agree she'll want kids, definitely. She's kidding herself! It's so sad to watch. I am not in any way going to approach her with this. Totally not my right. Not gonna do the 'chips will fall' scenario at all. He is a very, very good friend. Been through thick and thin together. Do I approve of his behavior? Isn't my posting an obvious answer? Of course not. He's like a brother to me. The debate isn't over my lack of respect for him in the area, it's over how to make him see he is being selfish and unfair. By the way, he hasn't actually proposed yet, but am certain he will soon. She is worthless to reason with - have tried on other points concerning him - doesn't work. I don't expect a miracle answer. I was wondering if any GUYS OUT THERE have been this way, or known another guy who has, and if so, what are your suggestions on how I can help (or maybe I just sod off and let it go?)? I just worry for the girl mostly and it is completely inappropriate and senseless for me to try and talk to her about it. I'm more interested in how to get my guy friend to see it differently.
underpants Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Well, If that is the case it might be best to 'sod off'. Personally for me I find it difficult to stay close with people who display IMO irreprehenable behaviour. You don't worry about her too much if you are not willing to sit her down and tell her what she is in for. However, you may not be too close to her and she might have her blinders on. I also don't think ...even as a close friend, that you can reason someone out of a known pattern of behaviour or convince them to see the light. It might be time to re-evaluate your friendships and make sure they are in line with your values. Sometimes you have to know who to align yourself with and who to let go of. Good luck.
Author everynameistaken Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 I understand your point, but I don't cut people off because they do something I don't like. I stand behind my friends. He knows I think his cheating is sh*tty, I've told him, but I don't know how to get him to see this as well. He has been such a good friend to me for so long, better than my own family, so I am willing to get off my high horse to try and remain his friend no matter what. He is seriously someone who would do anything for me and vice versa. Like a true brother. I'm vocal to him, but just want to know is there any way to get him to have an "ah ha" moment. I'm guessing not. He'll do what he's going to do I guess. I'm most interested in replies from men who have felt this way about women or who know someone who has, to try and understand what is going on in his brain. Don't men usually outgrow this childishness much earlier?
Tomcat33 Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 I don't know the motivation of his marriage other than his AGE. It seems when he hit 40 recently, he just decided it's time. NO rationale other than that. I agree she'll want kids, definitely. She's kidding herself! It's so sad to watch. I am not in any way going to approach her with this. Totally not my right. Not gonna do the 'chips will fall' scenario at all. He is a very, very good friend. Been through thick and thin together. Do I approve of his behavior? Isn't my posting an obvious answer? Of course not. He's like a brother to me. The debate isn't over my lack of respect for him in the area, it's over how to make him see he is being selfish and unfair. By the way, he hasn't actually proposed yet, but am certain he will soon. She is worthless to reason with - have tried on other points concerning him - doesn't work. I don't expect a miracle answer. I was wondering if any GUYS OUT THERE have been this way, or known another guy who has, and if so, what are your suggestions on how I can help (or maybe I just sod off and let it go?)? I just worry for the girl mostly and it is completely inappropriate and senseless for me to try and talk to her about it. I'm more interested in how to get my guy friend to see it differently. If it were that easy to make someone see that what they are doing is wrong, this board would not even exists. Life wouldn't even get to this point. I mean look at all the people who cheat and get themselves in situations torn between two people they say they love etc. and they cannot see the light. The other thing is even if you blow his cover with this girl ok fine he won't marry her but he will continue to do it to other women because it sounds like he is determined to be this way. So the question is do you want to save him or her? you can save her doesn't sound like you could save him. The sad truth is we really don't have that kind of power to change other people, even the ones we love. Some cheaters are like drug addicts they will keep doing it until they hit a wall. That's really what it comes down to the proverbial "wall" your friend is not going to stop until he hits his wall. The wall could be losing everything, the woman he loves, the respect and admiration from his friends and family and seeing himself in a very lonely dark place. But it might take a very long time for that to happen. I don't think you should tell his g/f if you don't feel it's your place to do that. A lot of times what ends up happening is nothing gets resolved and the two people you thought were your friends end up seeing you as public enemy #1. That's why I said feel out what his gf is about, if she is the type that woul want to know then take the leap. But it sounds like you have more of a friendship with him than her and have already made up your mind on that. If you are put in situations where you have to cover for him tell him you won't cover for him anymore, that could be a way to show him your dissatifaction in his choices. Unless you want to tell him flat out, "look I don't think what you are doing to X is fair, are you going to tell her or am I?" then really there is not much you can do.
Trialbyfire Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 How badly do you want to shut this down infidelity down? I'm no guy but I can give you my perspective from someone who's been cheated on aka your female friend. Ensure you have hard proof of indiscretions. Tell her but before you do, tell him you're going to do it but you want to give him the opportunity to tell her himself. If he's a rat, he will lie to her about everything. If you have hard proof, you can combat it. Make sure you're prepared to lose both friends because more than likely, you will by getting caught in the middle. You decide how far you're willing to go, to make things right.
norajane Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 You can't make a chronic cheater stop cheating. You can't even make him see that what's he's doing is damaging to everyone, including himself. He has to come to that realization on his own, or through the help of a therapist. But he won't seek help, because he doesn't think there's anything wrong with him or what he's doing. He's 40 going on 14 - trying to get away with whatever he can.
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 My question is, how do you convince someone that marriage really is a time in life where all this nonsense stops? Honestly, you can't. I was like your friend. The only person who could convince me of that was myself. Eventually I got there, but it wasn't due to any outside influence. It is more of an internal adjustment. Perhaps a subconscious stumble up the Maslow ladder? Not sure. Whatever the case, it happened. No 'knight in shining armor', no 'epiphany'... just a switch flipping quietly in the dim recesses of my mind somewhere. It happens for some people, and never for others - and its never too late for anyone. So... lets hope your friend gets there. If not, then the best you can do is continue to be his friend under the current circumstances.
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 This may give some insight, I dunno. Past cheater thread
JackJack Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 You can't make him stop cheating. Besides, at some point, what he is doing, will eventually catch up with him at some point anyway.
annieo Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 I know you requested responses from guys (and I'm female) but here goes... I cheated in my first long term relationship (repeatedly, and for which I am extremely ashamed and sorry - it was a hurtful waste of time). I left my first husband (with whom I had a very difficult relationship and with whom I have two children) for another man, to whom I am now married. So I guess you could say I don't have the greatest fidelity record. But things have changed, within me, largely due to my "learning" experiences and the value I place on my relationship with my current husband. While the temptation has occassionally been there (both for me and for him I would imagine) I don't want to screw things up this time. I think that I have realized that I didn't really "get away" with anything. the guilt I feel (particularily about my first serious boyfriend, who was a doll and who I still think of fondly) is with me to this day. Does your friend have a conscience? Does he ever express to you that he wants to change, to be a better person than he has been? Or is he kind of smug about his conquests? If he has never expressed any remorse, then good luck to his future wife.
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