Why I'm not an OW...

[underpants]

Life is too short! Go out, have fun, date those single guys, and enjoy!! It can be very hard when you connect so deeply with someone, but no amount of desire is a good enough reason. If he's unhappy, he needs to sh*t or get off the pot. Either make a go of it or separate. Either way, I don't want to be in the middle of it. It's a NO WIN situation.

 

As far as my friend, I've decided to not discuss certain topics with him. Obviously it took our friendship in the wrong direction and I don't want to lose his friendship, and since we've known each other so long, we'll be fine. You have to have boundaries and I failed to establish them recently, I guess, and he felt tempted, and before it even STARTS to go anywhere, it should STOP. I was just very shocked that after all this time it is suddenly an issue. I feel that it is my responsbility as the friend to say hey, we are just friends, you are married, and let's keep it that way. He's obviously feeling weak and if I'm the trigger of that weakness, I need to put a stop to it. So that's my solution. It should really be the only solution for anyone in this position.

 

I just wanted to share that there are some women out there that have the common sense not to go down this road. And I think that he won't unless I ENCOURAGE IT and it is my reponsiblity NOT to encourage it! Ladies, you have to realize you do bear that responsibility!!!

 

I do care others are involved, I do want better for myself, and I do believe that there's someone out there for me who is SINGLE. No amount of love makes it okay to do this in my opinion. If it's that freaking special, he'll look you up when he's divorced. And no matter how bad they say the relationship is, they still stay...so obviously you're not getting the full story. TRUST ME...there's probably so much you don't know. Let them work it out on their own. Don't be a reason for things going one way or the other.

 

Anyway, just my opinion.

 

You are no alone.

 

Integrity and respect are a nice character traits to have in your bag.

 

You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and the foresight to prevent a bad situation.

 

I will also add that if your mere interaction with him is a threat to his marriage, that may be a cue to back off from even the friendship.

 

Inspirational post.

[everynameistaken]

Thanks, Luv. I'm glad somebody understood why I posted! I think people here are so bitter that they just project their situations on others. I could never in a million years imagine sitting at home waiting for some married dude to call me and spend ten seconds with me and "sneak" away. ICK! How second rate would I view myself? Very sad. Will have a talk with him if he brings up sex again. Otherwise, I'm just gonna ignore the situation. I hate drama. I was just very confused about his recent comments. I'm a very busy girl anyway. Part of me thinks he really envies my freedom. He does tell me how lucky I am not to be married and to wait as long as I can. I told him that's a crappy thing to say and that my idea of marriage is nothing like what he's living in. I'm scrappy (in case you can't tell) so I do tell him how it is.

[JackJack]

It speaks volumes because nobody likes to be called a whore, Pandora. Especially people who aren't. To me OW = whore. No offense to anyone else out there.

 

 

You said you didn't want others to label you, but you just labled others when you said OW to you = whore. There are right many OW on here btw. Plus I went back and re-read the posts and what Pandora was meaning or her point was, that OW can also be there for someone in a emotional way, not just in a OW sexual way.

 

 

JackJack...can you offer some input? If this guy really does see me as you say he does, what do I do? I don't want to have a "come to Jesus" talk. Too deep. Should I just become less available for conversations? Should I invent a boyfriend? LOL Tell him I got laid and it was great? This sucks. I've had this friend for 20 years! How do I turn back time?

 

I'm really not sure what to tell you to do. I think it has to be your call. What do you feel you might need to do about the situation?

[everynameistaken]

Good piont, underpants. Maybe I do need to back off even tho we don't exactly talk frequently now. Probably best.

[luvmy2ns]

I'm scrappy too!

[everynameistaken]

JackJack - point taken. Will not use "whore" again, will just think it.

[everynameistaken]

JackJack - please clarify...Doesn't an OW have to know their an OW to be one and want to be one? I'm lost. You say I can be one emotionally, so does that mean EVERY friend who is supportive of their married friends' situations emotionally, by encouraging them, is an OW? Wow! Lots of us out there then! I'll have to let all of my friends know that we are secretly the "other woman" to men we have no idea we are???? Sorry for my stupidity. Seriously, this line of logic isn't registering.

[everynameistaken]

Wish you all a fantastic weekend. I'm gonna go have a pint or two and talk to single guys. LOL Thanks for your feedback - all of it - regardless if I agreed or not.

 

Cheers!

[JackJack]

JackJack - please clarify...Doesn't an OW have to know their an OW to be one and want to be one? I'm lost. You say I can be one emotionally, so does that mean EVERY friend who is supportive of their married friends' situations emotionally, by encouraging them, is an OW? Wow! Lots of us out there then! I'll have to let all of my friends know that we are secretly the "other woman" to men we have no idea we are???? Sorry for my stupidity. Seriously, this line of logic isn't registering.

 

 

I guess OW can mean different thigns to different people. You even stated what you felt it meant to you. I do think IMO though, if a woman is talking to a man about intimate details of his life/marriage/sex etc and spends time together than others may not know about,(or vice versa) then more than likely there is going to be some kind of emotional bond that forms, because there is a certain amount of trust there, as far as letting another person in on the things going on in their lives. But what it might mean to you, might mean something different to soemone else.

[norajane]

JackJack - please clarify...Doesn't an OW have to know their an OW to be one and want to be one? I'm lost. You say I can be one emotionally, so does that mean EVERY friend who is supportive of their married friends' situations emotionally, by encouraging them, is an OW? Wow! Lots of us out there then! I'll have to let all of my friends know that we are secretly the "other woman" to men we have no idea we are???? Sorry for my stupidity. Seriously, this line of logic isn't registering.

 

Here is an article for you on Emotional Affairs that might help you understand.

 

http://www.relationship-institute.com/freearticles_detail.cfm?article_ID=156

 

What is less understood however, and at times can be even more threatening to a long-term relationship than a physical affair, is an emotional affair. An emotional affair occurs when one member of a relationship consistently turns to someone else for their core, primary emotional support in life. It often develops slowly, even innocently, as a friendship with a co-worker or friend. There may or may not be a romantic/sexual attraction initially accompanying this budding friendship. But when the primary relationship is experiencing ongoing hostility, conflict and/or distance, and one member of the relationship pulls away from their partner and consistently turns to their 'friend' for companionship, support and sharing of deep personal material, an emotional affair has begun.

 

For many people, the emotional affair is a great source of relief and comfort during relationship difficulties. But the danger is that there is a finite amount of intimate emotional energy to go around, and when one begins to regularly invest significant amounts of their emotional energy in someone outside the primary committed relationship, the primary relationship can be seriously compromised.

 

Frequently, an emotional affair will deepen through consistent contact through in-person discussion and/or numerous email and voice mail messages.

[LucreziaBorgia]

If you read my original post, you'd know that I'm NOT going there. Period.

 

Why would someone assume that it was going there? Simple. I wish I had a dime for every OW whose affairs started this way. Some OW held out for YEARS playing the 'friendship' game before they allowed it to go further. You say you are a 100% certain you won't go there. I've seen plenty of people say the same thing before they became OW and had the same vitriolic hatred of OW that you do. Then they became one. How many posts I've seen over the years that started just like this one, and ones that start "I never thought I'd be an OW"... Nearly every person who has replied to this thread has seen the same posts I have. How would you expect them to react differently when it is seen so often?

 

So you want the benefit of the doubt... I can understand that.

 

No OW ever thinks she is 'going there'. Well, a few do and do so deliberately ... but what I'm getting at is that regardless of how innocent you see the situation, there is nothing innocent about his intentions, and if his wife knew she wouldn't see anything innocent about them either. In fact, she would want to know why you were pursuing a friendship with a married man that you KNEW wanted to sleep with you. You don't see yourself as the OW. Let's say no one here does either - it still won't change the fact that HE sees you as one, and his wife will too.

 

I'm not accusing you of anything - just giving it to you as others are going to see it if you continue down this path. If you see OW as 'whores' then hey, that's your prerogative. No one here is calling you a whore or insinuating that you are one. Just that you are not seeing the situation for what it is: a married guy using 'friendship' as an excuse to pursue more. Is it your fault that he is pursing you? No. Is it your fault that he is damaging his marriage by doing so? No.

 

However.... you know he wants to sleep with you regardless of what sort of history you had as friends. You know he does not want to be 'friends'. You know that pursuing someone outside of the marriage damages it. You may not be responsible for any of this, but you know the harm that your very presence is doing - and you are doing nothing about it but enabling the situation further by remaining 'friends'.

 

For example:

 

I really hope he give his marriage 100% and works on it like hell because I really believe they could work things out.

 

As long as you are in the picture, he will not give his marriage 100%. How can he when he is taking a part of that percentage away and focusing it on you? Again... that is not your fault that he is doing this. But you know that he is doing it, and you know what effect that can have on a marriage. His marital happiness is not your concern or your responsibility - but... when you know you are part of the problem regardless of how active or passive you are about it then you walk away. You refuse to walk away.

 

I think that is what people are reacting to in this case.

 

How do you change his mind? When a man gets it in his head that he wants to sleep with you, then that is first and foremost what is in his mind. What comes right along with that is emotional attachment. I don't think this guy is interested in just getting in your pants. I think he wants an emotional connection with you as well - one that he probably isn't getting at home. Can you stop it? Can you change how he feels? Nope. That is something he has to do, and as long as he is not happy in his marriage and has you in the picture as an emotional and potential sexual surrogate - he won't change how he feels, or even try to.

[EnigmasMuse]

Really good post NJ! I think that was the point that was trying to be made.

 

To the OP, I think people we sharing with you the fact that, even though its not sexual, and even though you say you wouldn't do anything with a married man, and you probably wouldn't, I think they were saying it CAN happen. It happens alot to people who say they would NEVER do this or NEVER do that. Most of the time is starts out in an emotional way too, and can esculate from there.

[JustBreathe]

So... after reading your initial post... the gist of what you're saying is "Hey gals, you CAN say no." Yes. So true. It is a falsehood that "you can't help who you fall in love with" - you most certainly can help it. If the person is committed to someone else, you simply say NO. It's that simple. I've done it myself. It is not hard to do. It requires only one thing - a conscience.

 

Thanks!

[PandorasBox]

Why would someone assume that it was going there? Simple. I wish I had a dime for every OW whose affairs started this way. Some OW held out for YEARS playing the 'friendship' game before they allowed it to go further. You say you are a 100% certain you won't go there. I've seen plenty of people say the same thing before they became OW and had the same vitriolic hatred of OW that you do. Then they became one. How many posts I've seen over the years that started just like this one, and ones that start "I never thought I'd be an OW"... Nearly every person who has replied to this thread has seen the same posts I have. How would you expect them to react differently when it is seen so often?

 

So you want the benefit of the doubt... I can understand that.

 

No OW ever thinks she is 'going there'. Well, a few do and do so deliberately ... but what I'm getting at is that regardless of how innocent you see the situation, there is nothing innocent about his intentions, and if his wife knew she wouldn't see anything innocent about them either. In fact, she would want to know why you were pursuing a friendship with a married man that you KNEW wanted to sleep with you. You don't see yourself as the OW. Let's say no one here does either - it still won't change the fact that HE sees you as one, and his wife will too.

 

I'm not accusing you of anything - just giving it to you as others are going to see it if you continue down this path. If you see OW as 'whores' then hey, that's your prerogative. No one here is calling you a whore or insinuating that you are one. Just that you are not seeing the situation for what it is: a married guy using 'friendship' as an excuse to pursue more. Is it your fault that he is pursing you? No. Is it your fault that he is damaging his marriage by doing so? No.

 

However.... you know he wants to sleep with you regardless of what sort of history you had as friends. You know he does not want to be 'friends'. You know that pursuing someone outside of the marriage damages it. You may not be responsible for any of this, but you know the harm that your very presence is doing - and you are doing nothing about it but enabling the situation further by remaining 'friends'.

 

For example:

 

 

 

As long as you are in the picture, he will not give his marriage 100%. How can he when he is taking a part of that percentage away and focusing it on you? Again... that is not your fault that he is doing this. But you know that he is doing it, and you know what effect that can have on a marriage. His marital happiness is not your concern or your responsibility - but... when you know you are part of the problem regardless of how active or passive you are about it then you walk away. You refuse to walk away.

 

I think that is what people are reacting to in this case.

 

How do you change his mind? When a man gets it in his head that he wants to sleep with you, then that is first and foremost what is in his mind. What comes right along with that is emotional attachment. I don't think this guy is interested in just getting in your pants. I think he wants an emotional connection with you as well - one that he probably isn't getting at home. Can you stop it? Can you change how he feels? Nope. That is something he has to do, and as long as he is not happy in his marriage and has you in the picture as an emotional and potential sexual surrogate - he won't change how he feels, or even try to.

 

Thank you LB, as always you know how to word things the correct way.

 

everynameistaken, it was not my intention to bash you, and I'm sorry. I can not say that enough. That is not how I was trying to come across at all. I was trying to share what had happened in my experience, and NO it doesn't mean it would happen in yours. I was simply saying it could.

 

As far as me being bitter about my situation like you said, sorry that is not my case at all. Dumping my cheating h was the best thing I ever did. I became the happiest I ever was after I kicked him out. Just becasue someone shares an experience or gives you their 2 cents, doesn't mean they are always bitter.

[everynameistaken]

I've spoken with all my guy friends about sex. Always have. I've always been viewed as one of the guys, so to speak. I've learned some great tips this way also!! This is the first time it appears to be a problem. My best friend is a guy. I've never shagged him, nor would I ever shag any guy friend. If they're a friend, it means I don't want to date them or can't and in my mind, I don't even consider them an option. I'm a very open person about sex and as far as having his wife in the room, no problem for me! I've got nothing to hide. Let's talk it up! I talk to my guy friends about sex with their girlfriends there and we all join in. I'm just open like that. I think what I've learned from this thread is that if I want to have a friendship with this guy, I can't talk sex, marriage, or anything intimate at all because he associates that with a relationshp with me??? I never saw that coming, but I guess I missed the mark on this one. Shame because that's a really false friendship if you can't be real about things. But I guess if he wants to shag me, that's a problem!!!

 

To the person who said it CAN happen (and it will with me because obviously I'm the same as everyone else, right?). Sure it CAN happen. Believe it or not, I don't think like the herd. Life is too short to shag some married man who can't make you happy. What a waste! Never will understand people who do it. Just me.

[Tomcat33]

What's the point of this thread? Praise? A trophy for good morals, for values, for personal stength? I don't see what the point is?!?!? Validation, yes that must be it, validation for something that "should"come naturally to most people and it does to 70% of society (to give it a %).

 

 

You know setting an example for a community that struggles with moral choice can prove to be quite effective in the realm of correcting a social mindset.

 

Nothing would set an example more clearly to a community that struggles with the path to take when contemplating stealing than to stone to death a person infront of a whole community just to prove a point about what could happen to someone who does cross the line of ethics, even if said person were 100% innocent of the crime. That person would send a message loud and clear, and an entire society can benefit from their assasination example. Question is what innocent bystander is willing to give up their own life to correct the unethical mindset of a whole social community? Gees, some poeple are just so damned selfish aren't they!!

 

I thought we did right for our own well being, not to gain some abstract popularity points from society.

 

Since we are all sharing opinions and all...

[underpants]

I've spoken with all my guy friends about sex. Always have. I've always been viewed as one of the guys, so to speak. I've learned some great tips this way also!! This is the first time it appears to be a problem. My best friend is a guy. I've never shagged him, nor would I ever shag any guy friend. If they're a friend, it means I don't want to date them or can't and in my mind, I don't even consider them an option. I'm a very open person about sex and as far as having his wife in the room, no problem for me! I've got nothing to hide. Let's talk it up! I talk to my guy friends about sex with their girlfriends there and we all join in. I'm just open like that. I think what I've learned from this thread is that if I want to have a friendship with this guy, I can't talk sex, marriage, or anything intimate at all because he associates that with a relationshp with me??? I never saw that coming, but I guess I missed the mark on this one. Shame because that's a really false friendship if you can't be real about things. But I guess if he wants to shag me, that's a problem!!!

 

To the person who said it CAN happen (and it will with me because obviously I'm the same as everyone else, right?). Sure it CAN happen. Believe it or not, I don't think like the herd. Life is too short to shag some married man who can't make you happy. What a waste! Never will understand people who do it. Just me.

 

I think you sound like a good friend and a positive influence.

 

Friendships evolve and change over time with life experiences. It is good of you to know when to step away or where to distance yourself when obstacles present themselves. You recognize that you are responsible for your choices before making them or even before embarking on a bad road. I find it commendable.

 

I also like that you are open and honest with both genders this (I think) is a good trait. Nothing to hide is...nothing to hide. I will temper this with the fact that some girlfriends/wives might find it offensive. However, you know your friends and hopefully know their thresholds/boundaries for such. Just be open to know that in life sometimes the lines move and just prepare yourself to walk accordingly in keeping with your own sense of self.

[MrsHellnoFire]

JackJack - please clarify...Doesn't an OW have to know their an OW to be one and want to be one? I'm lost. You say I can be one emotionally, so does that mean EVERY friend who is supportive of their married friends' situations emotionally, by encouraging them, is an OW? Wow! Lots of us out there then! I'll have to let all of my friends know that we are secretly the "other woman" to men we have no idea we are???? Sorry for my stupidity. Seriously, this line of logic isn't registering.

 

 

Didn't you say that you both talk about a lot of sexual things? Maybe you get some thrill out of having an admirer or creating some sort of sexual tension between you two. I don't know, but you get a kick out of it.

[Tomcat33]

. I don't know, but you get a kick out of it.

 

Of course she does! There is this attitude that she expects a pat on the back from everyone because she is technically not crossing any lines. The truth is that if she truly wants to set a moral standard for everyone, as it appears she wants to do by posting this topic, then she would go all the way and truly act selflessly and cut all ties with this guy who is A) not just a friend, not from his side of things at least because he clearly stated he sees her as more and wants more and B) a true "friend" does not allow a "friend" to potentially destroy their rel. over another "friendship"

 

Yeah sure they are not doing anything that crosses the boundaries of acceptance but as long as this guy is hanging on to this friendship with his "secret admired" and she faciltates this, they are both hindering the wellbeing of his marriage.

 

Yeah she's def getting something out of this, but of course she has everyone wrapped around her finger here because she knows how to "contain herself" :laugh:

 

I say go sell the "good samaritan" act to those who are buying...my pockets are empty.

[whichwayisup]

My only question is, are you as friendly with his wife as you are with him? Does she know about your friendship with her husband? If yes, and she's fine with it, knows the types of conversations you two have, then enjoy the friendship for what it is. JUST friends. Thought just reading my below thoughts, kind of condricts the above, doesn't it??? I dunno, I'm abit tired tonight so sorry if parts of this isn't making sense...

 

My comment is, you say if he was single (you admitted you were attracted to him and had deep feelings for him) you two would be together. That to me is crossing the line. Thought I know you know that now. Lusting quietly after a 'friend', even if you don't admit it to them, same goes for him wanting to have sex with you (FWB), is just asking for trouble eventually. Just don't put yourself IN that situation where something 'could happen'. Not saying you two WILL allow it, but don't cuddle with him, lay down with him, hold hands, be affectionate at all. You can do that with female friends, but not married male friends.

 

I do like your post, it's honest - Though I am not it's a healthy friendship. For either of you. It's hard to be friends with someone once those types of conversations take place, so maybe some space, detaching from eachother so you're not so close anymore would help. You two are emotionally attached to eachother abit too much for being 'just' friends.

[Tomcat33]

My friend never asks me much about my dating life, but out of the blue he started asking me these really serious questions. Usually he lets me be. Am I lonely? Don't I want to be with someone? What am I looking for in a man? At the end of this conversation he asked me if I would ever sleep with a married man (jokingly). I said "no" within less than a second. Of course telling him how lucky his wife is to be able to sleep with him cuz he's hot was probably not a good comment to add, but I was trying to give him an ego boost and didn't mean to encourage him. I realize now I shouldn't have said that. Hard not to say something nice when you see a guy's ego and confidence suffering. I am a sucker. I feel like he is suffering from serious self-esteem issues and I am the type to want to build people up. Sometimes I'm too honest. I emailed him to ask him about that comment (was he serious?) and his reply was that it was no more than two friends catching up and not to think anything of it. He really blew it off as nothing. He sends me a lot of mixed signals and so I guess all this time I've chosen to believe that he enjoys mild flirting, means nothing by it, etc. It's jokes. He called me last weekend to say he missed me (we say stuff like that - always have). I guess I just always blew it off as a close friendship. Was I wrong? Why now, after all these years, is he suddenly being this way?

 

Oh puhhhhleeeease!! Just reading through the thread and at more posts than just the orginal post, this is SO an A waiting to happen. Sorry but you sound TOTALLY smitten by this guy if not flat out in love with him.

 

I commend you on not crossing the line given just how into this guy you are but sorry I don't buy it FOR A SECOND you have no clue what you are doing when you are "making this man feel good" You are totally flirting with him and going out of your way to stroke his ego and you know it. You sound like a smart woman please don't play the coy act with "I had no idea if I told him I can't believe your W won't sleep with you considering how hot you are was leading him on," as if?

[whichwayisup]

Though I am not it's a healthy friendship. For either of you.

 

Oops, sorry about that. That's supposed to read "though I am not sure it's a healthy friendship. For either of you. Tried to re-edit but I couldn't as someone else had already posted.

[Tomcat33]

It speaks volumes because nobody likes to be called a whore, Pandora. Especially people who aren't. To me OW = whore. No offense to anyone else out there.

 

By the way 99.9% of OW or "whores" as you call them, start off in a an innocuous friendship such as yours. Is it safe to conclude you are a whore in the making then?

 

Speaking of being sensible, let's get our adjectives straight now. If being an OW is being a whore, by definition and given how strongly you feel about crossing certain lines that would compromise your own principles, aren't you being exactly that by continuing a friendship with someone you know has interests that you don't sit well with?

 

Given how strongly you feel about your ethical choice, I don't understand how you could entertain the idea of continuing a "platonic" friendship with this man!?!? sorry.

[everynameistaken]

WOW. Sorry I ever visited this site. Terrible bunch of nasty people you are.

[Tomcat33]

WOW. Sorry I ever visited this site. Terrible bunch of nasty people you are.

 

 

So OW are whores, and people who rebuttle your points of views are a terrible bunch of nasty people? Hmmmmm....