Why I'm not an OW...

[everynameistaken]

I'd like to add in my ten cents worth if I may. I'm a single female, never been married, no kids, not dating anyone right now. I recently had a friend of mine who has been married for about 15 years indicate to me he wanted to "work something out" in the sex department with me, basically. Let me tell you, from my perspective, why I'm not going to be an OW...

 

I met Ted (we'll call him that) 20 years ago right out of h.s. and we fooled around a few times. We were both single and young, so why not. I liked

him a lot, but was so young (he's a little older), we were not compatible at the time I think, and then I moved far away while he stayed put in our hometown. He got married, had kids. He married his h.s. sweetheart. We kept in touch on and off over the years. Sometimes more off than on. It wasn't until about 6 years ago that we kept in touch more regularly and realized we had a lot in common and struck up a friendship (by email at the time). The more we got to know each other, the more our friendship grew. He's a great guy. Really like him as a person. Then I began to hear the downlow about his marriage...almost got divorced before the kids, but then she got pregnant so they tried to work it out. Two kids in two years and that was over 10 years ago. From what he says, they've both been unhappy for about 15 or so years now. They are committed to their kids so they sleep separately, maintain appearances, and try to be good parents.

 

From what he tells me, they have sex a couple times a year. This has gone on for years and years. She never, ever wants it. They've tried counseling, separation, etc. but nothing changes. I'm not friends with the wife and can't comment on her issues. I'm sure there's much more to it (obviously!). He is so sexually frustrated that he just can't deal with it anymore. As a friend, I have tried suggesting so many things to help him find a solution inside his marriage. He has tried them all, he says. He just accepts it'll always be this way. He is resigned to watching his kids finish school and then leaving. He says he stays for the kids. He has not had an affair - ever. He just masterbates a lot. hahaha So we joke about that - we both do it and it's funny to joke about. We've always been able to talk openly. There has always been an attraction between us, but we have never acted on it because it's just not an option! I tell him about my ex's, I almost got married once, etc. like any normal friendship. But then something changed...

 

Fast forward to now. I am back in my hometown after 15 years of being away. Moved back a few years ago. My friend, after all these years, is suddenly seeing me as someone who can possibly be a substitution for masturbation I guess. Partly my fault for the types of conversations we have, I know that now, because I probably put that in his head by discussing sex in general. My mistake. I'm not dating anyone/getting any, he's dying for it, and we're very attracted to each other, so I think he is at the point where he figures let's just relieve each other and be done with it. This is only an evasive comment he made, nothing has actually happened. The thing is, like a lot of posters on here, I really do have deep feelings for my friend. I know that if he were single, we would probably be together and have a fantastic relationship. I care for him deeply. However, the thing is, you have to remind yourself, this person ISN'T single. They do have a wife at home who, despite whatever situation they are in, would probably be devastated and hurt to find out their spouse cheated. They have kids. They have a life. As much as I believe it would be so great to be with him, we can't be together - period! It isn't gonna happen! So I have always compartmentalized him as unavailable in my mind and he will always stay that way as long as he is married. It would also be a shame for me to waste away my life hoping he would leave her. Life is too short! Go out, have fun, date those single guys, and enjoy!! It can be very hard when you connect so deeply with someone, but no amount of desire is a good enough reason. If he's unhappy, he needs to sh*t or get off the pot. Either make a go of it or separate. Either way, I don't want to be in the middle of it. It's a NO WIN situation.

 

As far as my friend, I've decided to not discuss certain topics with him. Obviously it took our friendship in the wrong direction and I don't want to lose his friendship, and since we've known each other so long, we'll be fine. You have to have boundaries and I failed to establish them recently, I guess, and he felt tempted, and before it even STARTS to go anywhere, it should STOP. I was just very shocked that after all this time it is suddenly an issue. I feel that it is my responsbility as the friend to say hey, we are just friends, you are married, and let's keep it that way. He's obviously feeling weak and if I'm the trigger of that weakness, I need to put a stop to it. So that's my solution. It should really be the only solution for anyone in this position.

 

I'm not looking for a reply that beats up on this man, or our friendship. I don't need a lecture about emotional cheating, my friendship with him, his situation, blah, blah, blah. I just wanted to share that there are some women out there that have the common sense not to go down this road. And I think that he won't unless I ENCOURAGE IT and it is my reponsiblity NOT to encourage it! Ladies, you have to realize you do bear that responsibility!!! I do care others are involved, I do want better for myself, and I do believe that there's someone out there for me who is SINGLE. No amount of love makes it okay to do this in my opinion. If it's that freaking special, he'll look you up when he's divorced. And no matter how bad they say the relationship is, they still stay...so obviously you're not getting the full story. TRUST ME...there's probably so much you don't know. Let them work it out on their own. Don't be a reason for things going one way or the other.

 

Anyway, just my opinion.

[JackJack]

and it is my reponsiblity NOT to encourage it!

 

Very true. So whenever you both are talking, and he brings up the subject about sex, make sure that subject is one that you both stay away from. Also it might be a good idea to stay away from the subject about his wife and their marriage. Its a touchy subject, and one that can lead to possibly other things, because, even though his story might be true, what it is he has told you about his marriage, and the infrequent sex, and seperate beds etc and playing on your emotions and wanting a pity party, sounds like the classic story that translates into, "Can I get in your pants, because my marraige/sex life sucks."

 

Do you feel if the subject of sex and his marraige were avoided, you both would still have other things left to talk about?

[everynameistaken]

Thanks for the reply, JackJack. Really appreciate it. I agree with everything you said (and would still be appreciative if I didn't). Yes, we have TONS to talk about besides sex. We have a lot in common. Funny, because the marriage/sex talk hasn't really been a topic of conversation until recently. Maybe he is extra horny, I don't know? LOL

 

I think he is trying to do the right thing. Whenever it feels that we are getting closer (we talk more, really connect), he pulls away. I will hear from him maybe a few times a week, we'll have great conversations, and then he disappears. When he reappears, it's usually back to normal (without all the sex talk). I think he is struggling to not make a mistake and luckily for him I won't go down that road.

 

You are so right on about the pity party. God, I play right into that!! I have even told him how nuts I think it is his wife won't sleep with him. Personally, being single, I don't get it! I didn't realize that was a mistake and I'm glad you pointed it out. I get it now!!

[LucreziaBorgia]

I had 'friendships' like this too, and justified them in the exact same way. You aren't an active OW, but I would say that you are a passive one. You may not be putting yourself in the role of OW, but I can certainly tell you that he sees you that way, and if his wife knew she would see you that way too. You may not realize it, but being passive in this situation is no less damaging to his marriage. The only difference really, is that its one sided on his end. He is taking time and energy he should be putting toward strengthening his marriage and funneling it to you - which is weakening it.

 

You are doing well not to encourage it, and I can see why you would want to hold on to a friendship - but I really don't think that this guy sees you as friendship material so much as he does sexual material.

 

It sucks to have a guy friend pull that on you, regardless of whether he is married or not. I've lost many male friends because of that. Once they see you in a sexual way, there's no point really in trying to be friends in the true sense anymore.

[JackJack]

I have even told him how nuts I think it is his wife won't sleep with him.

 

I do believe there are "sexless" marriages don't get me wrong. But for some reason, when I hear or see someone mention how someone they know, has said that their spouse wont have sex with them, it reminds me of a book I read awhile back, where it mentioned that sometimes, NOT ALL the time, but SOMETIMES, when they tell someone how bad the marriage is, OR how their wife/husband wont have sex with them, it was usualy and excuse plus a lie and that alot of the times they are infact having sex with their spouse, more so than what they lead others to believe. I'm not saying your friend isn't being truthful when he tells you of his marriage/sex problems, but for some reason I'm just reminded that it can be a lie to get others to feel bad for them too.

[luvmy2ns]

Thank you to the OP for the refreshing attitude toward screwing married men. This forum needs more people like you.

[PandorasBox]

I know this guy is your friend, and I understand you care about him. However, I really don't think he sees you as just a "friend". I think it's obvious he wants more from you.

 

I think, as long as you're in the picture at all, wheather their is sex talk or not, I think he will continue to try to pursue this "friendship" until he finally get's what he wants from you. With you being there for him, to lean on in his time of need really serves no purpose because he wants something different from you than you might want or are willing to give because he is married. For you to remain in his life, is almost like a tease for him, a reminder of what he can not have. JUst like you wont be his OW in a sexual way, why do that to yourself or him? I'm not saying you are purposly teasing him, I'm just saying it might come across that way to him as what he can not have.

 

I'm sure him and his wife have had, or are having their share of problems, but for some reason, I have a feeling its not as bad as he might be making it out to be.

[everynameistaken]

My friend never asks me much about my dating life, but out of the blue he started asking me these really serious questions. Usually he lets me be. Am I lonely? Don't I want to be with someone? What am I looking for in a man? At the end of this conversation he asked me if I would ever sleep with a married man (jokingly). I said "no" within less than a second. Of course telling him how lucky his wife is to be able to sleep with him cuz he's hot was probably not a good comment to add, but I was trying to give him an ego boost and didn't mean to encourage him. I realize now I shouldn't have said that. Hard not to say something nice when you see a guy's ego and confidence suffering. I am a sucker. I feel like he is suffering from serious self-esteem issues and I am the type to want to build people up. Sometimes I'm too honest. I emailed him to ask him about that comment (was he serious?) and his reply was that it was no more than two friends catching up and not to think anything of it. He really blew it off as nothing. He sends me a lot of mixed signals and so I guess all this time I've chosen to believe that he enjoys mild flirting, means nothing by it, etc. It's jokes. He called me last weekend to say he missed me (we say stuff like that - always have). I guess I just always blew it off as a close friendship. Was I wrong? Why now, after all these years, is he suddenly being this way?

[everynameistaken]

Pandora, I think you're right. The thing is, we had a great friendship for so many years that I really think it can go back to that. It hasn't gone over the edge, so to speak, so it can be set straight. I think he is just seeking attention and I'm giving him enough to keep him wanting more. I need to stop that. Didn't realize I was doing that! The feedback is helpful. I agree, probably not so miserable at home as he leads on. Totally agree. I'm a sucker I guess!

[everynameistaken]

JackJack - don't think he's lying about the sex. Has made this comment for ten years. really think it's on the up-and-up. But I agree people DO LIE. Maybe he is just hitting a wall and tired of it? No idea why it's suddenly an issue.

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. I guess I just always blew it off as a close friendship. Was I wrong?

 

2. Why now, after all these years, is he suddenly being this way?

 

1. Yup. Given what you just wrote, there is no doubt that he does not see this as a friendship. He sees it as a potential relationship. You may not think of yourself as the OW, but he has already put you in that role like it or not.

 

2. I don't know that its a matter of sudden interest, so much as it is you just now picking up on it. Perhaps he was waiting for a receptive moment, and he is at a vulnerable enough time to go for it.

 

As for you... I'm not sure how long you can continue this "I am not OW" train of thought. Its fairly apparent that before too long, you'll be on here posting about how the two of you hooked up finally after he wore you down, and how its not your fault that the two of you hooked up since you weren't the one pursuing, etc. As long as you remain 'friends' its only a matter of time before your passive role as OW becomes an active one.

 

You may as well own your part in this now rather than deny it. Its your only way out, if you truly want to walk away from being an active OW. Denial only paves the way to a quicker route there.

[PandorasBox]

I emailed him to ask him about that comment (was he serious?)

 

By you asking, if he was serious, that says to him you're interested in his comment.

 

At the end of this conversation he asked me if I would ever sleep with a married man (jokingly).

 

I doubt it was joking. Although he wanted to pass it off that way.

[everynameistaken]

Really disagree with this point...very unfair.

 

"You may not realize it, but being passive in this situation is no less damaging to his marriage."

 

I'm willing to take responsibliity for some things, but don't even begin to compare my friendship with him in the same light as someone f*cking a married man. Come on....be sensible.

 

Yeah, you are probably right that I guess he doesn't see me as just a friend. I really thought he did - honestly! Because he has NEVER acted on anything, we've always talked openly, and it has been this way for years. Over the years I've even joked about being his long-lost sister. God, I feel naive!!! I must be a complete dunce. Sorry!!

[everynameistaken]

Pandora,

I asked him about his comment because it stunned me. Literally. And I told him that. I was literally stunned. I was clear about why I was asking. Should have added that. Sorry. I even told him to just go home, grab his wife, kiss her passionately, and ravage her.

[everynameistaken]

Don't group me with everyone else. Really unfortuante for you to take what Im' saying, stereotype me, and hang me out to dry. Maybe you are spaeking more for yourself or you are suffering from something you are INJECTING into my situation. Please don't do that. I'm not you. This comment was really, really out of line. If you read my original post, you'd know that I'm NOT going there. Period. I do want feedback, but don't need someone accusing me of something I have no intention of doing nor assuming I will. Very out of line! I'm sure you mean well, but I don't need a "talking to."

 

"As for you... I'm not sure how long you can continue this "I am not OW" train of thought. Its fairly apparent that before too long, you'll be on here posting about how the two of you hooked up finally after he wore you down, and how its not your fault that the two of you hooked up since you weren't the one pursuing, etc. As long as you remain 'friends' its only a matter of time before your passive role as OW becomes an active one. "

[PandorasBox]

Really disagree with this point...very unfair.

 

"You may not realize it, but being passive in this situation is no less damaging to his marriage."

 

I'm willing to take responsibliity for some things, but don't even begin to compare my friendship with him in the same light as someone f*cking a married man. Come on....be sensible.

 

Yeah, you are probably right that I guess he doesn't see me as just a friend. I really thought he did - honestly! Because he has NEVER acted on anything, we've always talked openly, and it has been this way for years. Over the years I've even joked about being his long-lost sister. God, I feel naive!!! I must be a complete dunce. Sorry!!

 

 

Please don't feel I'm bashing you, becasue I'm not. I hope I don't come across that way its not my intention. I think people are just trying to help, you give you their 2 cents on what they feel might really be happening here with him.

 

Just because you're not sleeping with him doesn't mean he doesn't see you as the OW in an emotional attachment sort of way. You both do share things with each other. He knows right much about you, you him, he shares intimate details about the lack of sex he gets, how his marriage has been etc etc. A OW doesn't have to be for just sex. Even though you might not see yourself as that, doesn't mean he might not. He might feel you are his OW that he talks to about his problems etc.

 

I'm on the other end of the spectrum here. My ex husband had OW. I ended my marriage when I found out what was going on. So from a wife's point of view, I see alot of what your friend has told you, about his marriage and sex life was alot of the same things my ex told the woman in his life too. He played on her emotions until he wore her down and she finally felt bad for him, and it went from "friendship" to a full blown affair.

[everynameistaken]

In addition, you tell me to "own my part." How many times in my posts did I say I realized I had to change our conversations and DID own up to being naive? That I shouldn't have said this or that, that it was MY responsibility to change the friendship, that I may have misunderstood him? Jesus, do you actually READ the posts or do you just read what you want to read and interpret it at will? Pandora, please...stop it already.

[PandorasBox]

In addition, you tell me to "own my part." How many times in my posts did I say I realized I had to change our conversations and DID own up to being naive? That I shouldn't have said this or that, that it was MY responsibility to change the friendship, that I may have misunderstood him? Jesus, do you actually READ the posts or do you just read what you want to read and interpret it at will? Pandora, please...stop it already.

 

 

I'm sorry it was not my intention to upset you. I see a nerve has been hit, which speaks volumes. Once again, I'm sorry. I wish you luck with your situation.

[everynameistaken]

I do feel bashed in a way. I'm realizing through JackJack and others that I really did misinterpret the signs. Feel a bit of an arse. Now I am being told I'm an OW. Good lord! Gimme a break! I thikn ou are wounded over your husband's affair and see my situation as potentially harmful. Point taken, but don't label me an OW and don't stereotype me as some whore. I'm not. I don't know how "Ted" sees me, but the bottom line is, I date single guys, I live a single life, and I certainly only screw single guys (one at a time, in a relationship preferably), not married men, period. That's not gonna change. I'm sorry for what happened to you (honestly) but please don't take your situation and project it on me. I've known him for 20 years. I've been close to him for 6. Never happened, not gonna happen. Hope that clears things up.

[everynameistaken]

It speaks volumes because nobody likes to be called a whore, Pandora. Especially people who aren't. To me OW = whore. No offense to anyone else out there.

[everynameistaken]

JackJack...can you offer some input? If this guy really does see me as you say he does, what do I do? I don't want to have a "come to Jesus" talk. Too deep. Should I just become less available for conversations? Should I invent a boyfriend? LOL Tell him I got laid and it was great? This sucks. I've had this friend for 20 years! How do I turn back time?

[EnigmasMuse]

Wonderful, so you're not the OW, I think you made the very clear.

 

You are his platonic friend. Which is good he can have someone to lean on, because the OW is the one that he is having sex with, while he tells you of his problems with his wife.

 

If he has not had sex in along time and things are soooo bad, like he claims them to be, then chances are he has got him side action before anyway and/or he still is.

[luvmy2ns]

It speaks volumes because nobody likes to be called a whore, Pandora. Especially people who aren't. To me OW = whore. No offense to anyone else out there.

 

Hey, no offense to me, ENIT. I don't sleep with other women's husbands.

 

I also don't see you getting yourself into that situation as others have accused you of being on your way there. When I read your OP, it was very clear to me that you abhor cheaters and those who cheat with them. Just because you want to share your story doesn't mean you're going to go there. I just considered it a story with a moral the likes of which many on this forum would prefer to pretend didn't exist.

[luvmy2ns]

JackJack...can you offer some input? If this guy really does see me as you say he does, what do I do? I don't want to have a "come to Jesus" talk. Too deep. Should I just become less available for conversations? Should I invent a boyfriend? LOL Tell him I got laid and it was great? This sucks. I've had this friend for 20 years! How do I turn back time?

 

Just tell him what you've told us - that while you value his friendship and would like to keep it, that is all it will ever become. He has a commitment to his family, and that's the end of it. That your values prevent you from getting involved with him any further than a platonic friendship.

[everynameistaken]

Enigma, he's not cheated sexually. I'm sure of it. But I think he will considering his recent comments. He's not a horrible person, but I do think he's headed down a road to doing something dishonorable. I agree on that. I worry for him, but I have a life, ya know. If that's what he chooses, that's his demon, not mine. I'm hoping he won't since he hasn't yet. I really hope he give his marriage 100% and works on it like hell because I really believe they could work things out. Grass is always greener, eh?