hollaxatholly Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 I'm new here. First, I want to say that I know what I involved myself in was a bad idea, and was wrong for the most part. I never planned on it but it happened and I fell in love and blah blah blah.... I just wanted to get some other opinions on my situation because I've been going a little crazy with myself. I'd like to hear from people who have been in a marriage, or any relationship I guess and how you feel now, honestly. I was seeing a MM. He was planning to leave his wife, well, really he was planning on her leaving him, then she got suspicious about us and now really seems to be holding on to him. So, basically, he kind of ended things between me and him because he didn't want to keep me waiting and she didn't seem to be going anywhere and he said he wanted me to have a better life. Now...I did the, "mature" thing (ok, not so much) and lost my control and told his wife we were together for a year now and we got married( they are muslim, and i told her me and him got married at the mosque) and some other details of our relationship. She always kind of suspected it and gave him trouble for it. I worked for them and she tried to get him to fire me for a year and he fought with her so badly to keep me there. Of course denying the affair. Basically, he put her through hell. So anyways, I just completely confirmed her suspicions. I did it in a "nice" way. This was about a week ago. I never heard from her, I heard from him and he was pretty upset and thanked me for making his life hell and he said he hoped I was satisfied. Then my mother called him( about other things, not me) and she called back and said to stop calling him and how they were fine and happy now and she didn't even care what happened with us because they were having a happy life now. She also said they used me like a servent and if he married me, he wanted to get his green card and that was it. So, I went off on her and told her alot of things. She called me names, I called her some names, the whole deal.... This is getting long so I'll just ask this.....I just want to hear it from someone who has BEEN cheated on, maybe even someone whos husband, or wife has had a long affair. Would you be okay with it? I can only imagine them sitting over there having a good time. I know it can't be true but she sounds fine....my mom tells me OF COURSE she would want me to think that. She wants to hurt me any way possible but they will never be fine, she will never forget it. Is that true? Can you have a completely happy relationship, after your spouse has cheated on you? had a relationship with another woman for over a year? Can you forget that, or could you not even be upset over it? I'd really like if I would hear from someone from egypt...or of the muslim religion, because I believe they have some different beliefs on things and I'm just curious? I know they can't be happy...atleast not so quick. According to him, I caused a big problem and she hates him. According to her, she doesn't care and they have a happy life now because he is still with her...What do you all think?? I'm miserable here...
DazedandConfused66 Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 I know enough people who have been thru affairs to say this with conviction. Yes, a marriage can survive and even prosper after an affair. But it has nothing to do with the affair itself...that's just the catalyst. It has everything to do with the individuals involved and how they respond to the situation. People have survived rape, incest, terrible crimes, etc and turned their lives into positive and even motivational paragons for others to follow. Affairs aren't any different. People survive, some prosper and others become stronger from the ordeal. Married couples who truly love one another and make the EXTREME effort to reconcile (and it is seriously difficult in even the best of situations) can come out of it stronger than before the affair took place. Keep in mind, for an affair to take place, there is already a problem with the relationship. Maybe not a spoken or acknowledged issue, but a problem already. The affair only makes the problem worse. But ending it, and reconciling, and trying to fix the marriage thereafter....yeah, then you are talking about creating a REAL marriage and humbling yourself before one another and really investing in one anothers' happiness, putting your own selfish nature to the side. So in a whacked out kind of way...you may have just ended up making their long-term prospects as a happy couple BETTER. Yet one more reason to stay away from affairs with MM or MW....there are seldom any winners in the outcome, but if there is, it's almost never the OM/OW.
Cobra_X30 Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 Why did you get involved with a guy like that anyway? It seems kinda obvious he knew his wife wouldnt leave. I mean wives just cant do that in his culture! The more thought you put into this the more miserable your going to be! Stop thinking about him and try to start moving on.
Lizzie60 Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 She wants to hurt me any way possible but they will never be fine, she will never forget it. She will never forget it for sure..but she can forgive him.... that's a possibility. Can you have a completely happy relationship, after your spouse has cheated on you? I don't know about that.. never been there... but I suppose you can... everything is possible I guess. Can you forget that, or could you not even be upset over it? Forget it...no never.. but she can forgive him and close her eyes on the affair..yes definitely. Maybe she's not that upset about it... I don't know how long they were married but I remember with my first ex... I would have closed my eyes on an affair... I even wanted him to have one... I would probably be with him still... LOL According to him, I caused a big problem and she hates him. According to her, she doesn't care and they have a happy life now because he is still with her... You're the one who's being played here... this guy has no spine... he has made his choice... he chose her. Why would you want this jerk anyway. I don't get it. Don't you have any self-esteem? Of course he will tell you that... he doesn't want you to cause any more trouble... and she's almost laughing at you by saying they're happy now... I wouldn't say that they are happy now... but maybe they're OK... my bet is that you won't get him ... so my advice ... move on... leave them alone... he's not worth your energy. I would NEVER EVER make a fool of myself being a 'doormat OW' I am just too proud plus I have no patience with this kind of losers.
silktricks Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 Yes, a marriage can really recover after an affair. Forget? No, you never forget. That would be like saying you forget a head-on collision. But it doesn't come to mind. It isn't a presence in your life. As Dazed said, though, it depends on the couple. If the married couple really works out their problems and views the occurence as a catalyst for change, then the marriage can be better than it ever was.
Molson Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 Not to be cruel, but you are being extremely naive. I married into the Muslim culture myself, and while I got lucky, I have since seen a LOT of hair-raising situations when it comes to Muslim men "dating" western women. I am not speaking of abuse or coercion toward conservative norms, as some might assume. I am speaking of deception. I might take a lot of grief for saying some of this, but understand that I am not a person of conservative leanings, and while I'm not speaking of ALL people of the culture, nevertheless the broader culture is so strong that most never truly abandon the norms of behavior that have influenced and shaped them from childhood. Deception is a normative behavior in this culture, in such a way that is very hard for westerners to understand. But if you consider the rigid hierarchies of many Muslim families and societies, where individual expression can be strongly suppressed, and conformity highly encouraged, then it becomes easier to see how young people there (especially young men who have more freedom) become accustomed to living dual lives from a young age: one at home, and another outside the home, where they can seek a degree of personal freedom and expression. Double lives are, frankly, par for the course for many (of course not all). It has been said that western cultures operate on an "innocence/guilt" axis, while Muslim cultures operate on an "honor/shame" axis. The difference is clear when you consider that in the latter, as long as personal behavior remains secret, and therefore cannot bring shame on the extended family, then it is de facto acceptable. There is of course no shortage of liars or philanderers in western society. But I would argue that such behavior is viewed harshly (especially lying) on the basis of an idea of inherent wrongness for which one should feel "guilt," whereas some elements of eastern culture are much more tolerant of this behavior so long as it doesn't become public, thus shaming the extended family. Truth is a more ambiguous virtue, in practice. This man has taken you to the mosque and "married" you to exploit a religious loophole and to cover himself in the eyes of his religion. He is entitled - and feels perfectly entitled - to four wives in his religion, so you were made one according to the letter (but not the spirit) of the law, so he could justify using you for his own sexual pleasure. This is very common. Did he ever do ANYTHING to indicate that he took the "marriage" seriously in any other way? Did he ever ask to meet your family? Did he ever legitimate his intentions in any way? Sorry, but you have been seriously deceived, and not just in terms of this man's intentions, but in terms of who he really is. I know it's not easy to hear. But I've seen a hundred times. You see a charming, caring man that makes you feel extremely sexy and protected. You see a man that tells you what you want and need to hear. You see a man that appears to be a completely open book, even as you notice a few inconsistencies or cracks in the story here and there; but in other ways he seems so open and honest that it's easy to brush those worries aside. (Again, the double life is rarely hung up by a feeling of personal guilt.) I will tell you what he sees: an "illegitimate" woman that satisfies his ego and his sexual needs, and was ripe for the picking. Sure, he's probably fond of you on a personal level, but if you imagine that he respects you or envisions an open, equitable future together, think again. This man will never, ever leave his wife as his and her families will make his life total hell. His social status depends on it. His wife will most likely never, ever leave him as her social status depends on it. I will tell you why his wife said that you were just an avenue to a green card for her husband: because that's what he told her. That's an explanation that makes perfect sense to her, and you should be asking yourself why. That's also more common than anyone would like to think. And "using you like a servant"? Where do you think she got that from? Huge red flag. Stop arguing with his poor wife. You are the one who has made a very lucky break. She will never be free of this lying, manipulative man who will cheat and hurt her for as long as he is breathing, since his actions show entitlement and no remorse whatsoever. Break contact with them both and never look back. Start seeing this as a real learning experience in life. There's no need let your hurt make you cynical, but you do need to wise up so you can make better, happier decisions in the future.
outofdarkness Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 from Egypt or Muslim, but I WAS cheated on by my H for 10 years..No, it is never the same, no, you never completely forget, and yes, it's hard to forgive..BUT, you CAN build a new R built on a healthy foundation...Some on LS believe that the M must have been bad to begin with for one spouse to stray, I think that each situation is very unique..No two R's are the same. After the cheating all comes out, the R can heal, but IMO, both parties have to be very willing to do anything to do it. There must be love on both sides, and all contact must be cut with the OW/OM. Hope that helps...ood:)
Author hollaxatholly Posted September 21, 2007 Author Posted September 21, 2007 We aren't really married, I just told her that to make her mad. I'm sure he told her some things but I don't think he would of told her we were married for a green card because we wouldn't be legally married, in the U.S., because they are married. We aren't really married though, thank god, I would be way more upset if it went that far. I know I am the lucky one here, I just don't feel it now, but if she did win, what did she win? a man that doesn't really love her? I don't know...the whole situation is a mess...She always comes up with things like this though, saying bad things about me that wouldn't even make sense for him to tell her. So, I don't blame him so much for them. This whole thing is his fault though. Her mother pretty much knows about this, and also alot of their egyptian/muslim friends, so I'm pretty sure they are "ashamed" in front of them. I don't know, I didn't mean to do that so much but their beliefs and the beliefs of here are different and it's hard for me to understand them sometimes. Not understand, but to "know" them. Not to be cruel, but you are being extremely naive. I married into the Muslim culture myself, and while I got lucky, I have since seen a LOT of hair-raising situations when it comes to Muslim men "dating" western women. I am not speaking of abuse or coercion toward conservative norms, as some might assume. I am speaking of deception. I might take a lot of grief for saying some of this, but understand that I am not a person of conservative leanings, and while I'm not speaking of ALL people of the culture, nevertheless the broader culture is so strong that most never truly abandon the norms of behavior that have influenced and shaped them from childhood. Deception is a normative behavior in this culture, in such a way that is very hard for westerners to understand. But if you consider the rigid hierarchies of many Muslim families and societies, where individual expression can be strongly suppressed, and conformity highly encouraged, then it becomes easier to see how young people there (especially young men who have more freedom) become accustomed to living dual lives from a young age: one at home, and another outside the home, where they can seek a degree of personal freedom and expression. Double lives are, frankly, par for the course for many (of course not all). It has been said that western cultures operate on an "innocence/guilt" axis, while Muslim cultures operate on an "honor/shame" axis. The difference is clear when you consider that in the latter, as long as personal behavior remains secret, and therefore cannot bring shame on the extended family, then it is de facto acceptable. There is of course no shortage of liars or philanderers in western society. But I would argue that such behavior is viewed harshly (especially lying) on the basis of an idea of inherent wrongness for which one should feel "guilt," whereas some elements of eastern culture are much more tolerant of this behavior so long as it doesn't become public, thus shaming the extended family. Truth is a more ambiguous virtue, in practice. This man has taken you to the mosque and "married" you to exploit a religious loophole and to cover himself in the eyes of his religion. He is entitled - and feels perfectly entitled - to four wives in his religion, so you were made one according to the letter (but not the spirit) of the law, so he could justify using you for his own sexual pleasure. This is very common. Did he ever do ANYTHING to indicate that he took the "marriage" seriously in any other way? Did he ever ask to meet your family? Did he ever legitimate his intentions in any way? Sorry, but you have been seriously deceived, and not just in terms of this man's intentions, but in terms of who he really is. I know it's not easy to hear. But I've seen a hundred times. You see a charming, caring man that makes you feel extremely sexy and protected. You see a man that tells you what you want and need to hear. You see a man that appears to be a completely open book, even as you notice a few inconsistencies or cracks in the story here and there; but in other ways he seems so open and honest that it's easy to brush those worries aside. (Again, the double life is rarely hung up by a feeling of personal guilt.) I will tell you what he sees: an "illegitimate" woman that satisfies his ego and his sexual needs, and was ripe for the picking. Sure, he's probably fond of you on a personal level, but if you imagine that he respects you or envisions an open, equitable future together, think again. This man will never, ever leave his wife as his and her families will make his life total hell. His social status depends on it. His wife will most likely never, ever leave him as her social status depends on it. I will tell you why his wife said that you were just an avenue to a green card for her husband: because that's what he told her. That's an explanation that makes perfect sense to her, and you should be asking yourself why. That's also more common than anyone would like to think. And "using you like a servant"? Where do you think she got that from? Huge red flag. Stop arguing with his poor wife. You are the one who has made a very lucky break. She will never be free of this lying, manipulative man who will cheat and hurt her for as long as he is breathing, since his actions show entitlement and no remorse whatsoever. Break contact with them both and never look back. Start seeing this as a real learning experience in life. There's no need let your hurt make you cynical, but you do need to wise up so you can make better, happier decisions in the future.
Author hollaxatholly Posted September 21, 2007 Author Posted September 21, 2007 I don't know, I was stupid, I guess. He was just someone I trusted and respected. I believe she told him many times that she was planning to leave him, and he believed it, supposedly. I think she would like to go back to egypt. Why did you get involved with a guy like that anyway? It seems kinda obvious he knew his wife wouldnt leave. I mean wives just cant do that in his culture! The more thought you put into this the more miserable your going to be! Stop thinking about him and try to start moving on.
Lizzie60 Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 I know I am the lucky one here, I just don't feel it now, but if she did win, what did she win? a man that doesn't really love her? And if YOU win... you win what? A loser... a spineless jerk! Wow... impressive! You should move on.. leave this jerk alone... he doesn't deserve your energy.
Author hollaxatholly Posted September 21, 2007 Author Posted September 21, 2007 I So in a whacked out kind of way...you may have just ended up making their long-term prospects as a happy couple BETTER. Possibly, but I'm pretty sure not...because she wanted to leave him, before this affair pretty much so I can't imagine this would help. Yet one more reason to stay away from affairs with MM or MW....there are seldom any winners in the outcome, but if there is, it's almost never the OM/OW. Yeah, I know...I definitely learned my lesson!! wow, I will never come close to a situation like this again, I'd rather someone just shoot me! lol This was my first relationship really and I guess my lack of experience and just a need for love and the fact that i trusted this man got me in a mess
Author hollaxatholly Posted September 21, 2007 Author Posted September 21, 2007 I know I am the lucky one here, I just don't feel it now, but if she did win, what did she win? a man that doesn't really love her? And if YOU win... you win what? A loser... a spineless jerk! Wow... impressive! You should move on.. leave this jerk alone... he doesn't deserve your energy. True....I know this, so bad but my heart isn't up to speed yet I'm trying...I just feel so hurt. we had alot of fun together and it hurts that he's the one who bailed out on me..when i still loved him.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 Deception is a normative behavior in this culture, in such a way that is very hard for westerners to understand. But if you consider the rigid hierarchies of many Muslim families and societies, where individual expression can be strongly suppressed, and conformity highly encouraged, then it becomes easier to see how young people there (especially young men who have more freedom) become accustomed to living dual lives from a young age: one at home, and another outside the home, where they can seek a degree of personal freedom and expression. Double lives are, frankly, par for the course for many (of course not all). I went to college with a number of Muslim students and saw the dual lives you describe first-hand. And not just for men but for women, too. I can only imagine the pressure involved in trying to live up to familial expectations while partaking of some pretty intoxicating freedoms. There were a couple of students that literally disappeared overnight when their families discovered some of their activities and whisked them back to the Middle East... Mr. Lucky
justpassingthrough Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 The wife knows you never married simply because he never consulted with her first. In the Egyptian culture, although a man can have as many as four wives, it rarely happens that he has more than one. Culturally there has to be a reason, i.e. the first wife is barren and cannot give him children. Even so, that doesn't mean there will be a divorce. Instead the first wife remains and retains that status. Divorces are usually reserved for situations where either the husband or wife is a really bad parent, not so much that they're a really bad spouse. He was planning on her leaving him? Heh. Good luck with that - he'll need a buttload of money because, as a Muslim woman, she's entitled to monetary support/compensation if the marriage doesn't work. Plus she gets to go home and tell her brothers about how her husband treated her. Your MM is going to have problems no matter which way he runs. Her mother pretty much knows about this, and also alot of their egyptian/muslim friends, so I'm pretty sure they are "ashamed" in front of them. I'd bet the farm aaaaaall of the girls know what went on.
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