tanbark813 Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Due to physiological and societal situations I dont think your comparison here is completely correct. Men and Women relate to sex in a slightly different way, if you approach the topic like both are the same your going to be dissapointed. It's not my comparison. I was answering TBF's question.
Krytellan Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 How old are you? You should know how to pick up on these things by this point in life. Women arent that hard to get. I'm 33 and so sorry I didn't acknowledge your expertise. I will back out now as I am obviously in the presence of a superior being. I bet you know less than you think.
Cad Rake Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 keep thinking like this cad and all you're gonna get are the ''whores''. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, that simple. Hehe I can only hope! I only date "sluts"... the "good girls" want nothing to do with me, as you can imagine. Nor I them.
Cobra_X30 Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 I'm 33 and so sorry I didn't acknowledge your expertise. I will back out now as I am obviously in the presence of a superior being. I bet you know less than you think. Ahem... I know where my issues are! I suppose I am the way I am because of those issues. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. I understand I dont have all the answers. I'm just suprised because you seem more emotionally mature than that. Typically that means you can see through it when a girl throws up a fake front. Are you good at reading body language?
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 I'll assume dodging the question means, "yes". Nope. It makes no sense in being emotionally invested when someone else is only interested in physicality. For many guys, it takes time to discover who they are, instead of who they purport to be... Of course not. Just as when women emotionally connect with, and open up to, a man it doesn't necessarily mean she's "in love" with him. He might just be a good, platonic friend of hers. It's far easier to move on from a strictly non-invested position, when both your goals are not compatible.
Cobra_X30 Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 It's not my comparison. I was answering TBF's question. Actually I think it relates directly to your answer. The assumption that a woman cannot place a heavy emotional attachment to you without sex is not exactly correct. If I read your line correctly, its your thought that waiting is the same as withholding and that its an emotional test? However, could it not also be said that emotional attachment and trust take time to build, and differing amounts of time for different people? So why jump into something physical with the hope that the trust and emotional attachment will eventually catch up? The horse goes in front of the cart so to speak.
JamesM Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 And test drive the car... gimme a break. Car looks great from the outside, you drive it around for a while... then you find the odometers been rolled back... Passenger seat is broke... Funky smell once the air freshener wears off... and some other dudes baggage takes up the whole friggin trunk! Avoid this by learning a little about cars! I like this analogy. BTW, if sex is an expression of love, should it not wait until love has been realized and expressed verbally? Why is it necessary to have sex as a requirement of love? Yes, sex is a vital part of a long term relationship, but when someone is concerned that if she doesn't "put out" when two people just are getting to know each other, how can it then be an expression of love? Does it then become a requirement to show that she "loves" because HE wants it rather than an expression that she "loves" because SHE wants HIM? If a deadline is given whether implied or said, then sex cannot be freely given. It becomes a payment for an evening out.
tanbark813 Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 It makes no sense in being emotionally invested when someone else is only interested in physicality. The problem is that you're assuming a guy who wants sex is only interested in physicality and that's simply not true. I know for a fact that some men want sex and a long-term relationship because I'm one of them. Actually I think it relates directly to your answer. The assumption that a woman cannot place a heavy emotional attachment to you without sex is not exactly correct. I agree. I wasn't making that assumption. I was saying that an action taken to prevent additional emotional investment is another form of being emotionally unavailable. If I read your line correctly, its your thought that waiting is the same as withholding and that its an emotional test? Well, it can be. In previous posts TBF has stated that she not only waits to prevent additional emotional attachment but as a test to weed guys out. However, could it not also be said that emotional attachment and trust take time to build, and differing amounts of time for different people? So why jump into something physical with the hope that the trust and emotional attachment will eventually catch up? The horse goes in front of the cart so to speak. Sure. I'm not saying a woman has to jump into bed on the first date. Nor does the guy have to wait around for 6 months for the girl to alleviate her suspicion of the guy's motives. My ultimate point is that women's needs are no more important or noble than men's needs. If women want their needs respected and catered to they should do no less for men and not dismiss them as being the needs of a "boy".
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 tan, in your wisdom, how does a woman weed out the non-acceptables, who 9/10 pretend they want a relationship?
tanbark813 Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 tan, in your wisdom, how does a woman weed out the non-acceptables, who 9/10 pretend they want a relationship? Gut instinct. That's what I use for weeding out women. I'm sure it works the other way around. It's just that the method of, "Ok, if this guy can hold off for 3 months then he's really interested," just seems far too simplistic to me. It's even a little counterintuitive in that players will probably have an easier time waiting than a good guy who's genuinely interested who hasn't been laid in quite some time.
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Gut instinct. That's what I use for weeding out women. I'm sure it works the other way around. It's just that the method of, "Ok, if this guy can hold off for 3 months then he's really interested," just seems far too simplistic to me. It's even a little counterintuitive in that players will probably have an easier time waiting than a good guy who's genuinely interested who hasn't been laid in quite some time. Gut instinct many times gets muddied when strong emotions come into play, which is why players get what they want. Chicken and the egg, tan.
tanbark813 Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Thought may be muddied but guts are smart motherf*ckers.
Touche Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 In my experience, players and shallow/selfish men never wait. No way. It's an EXCELLENT tool for weeding out the bad ones. Always worked for me anyway.
oppath Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 tan, in your wisdom, how does a woman weed out the non-acceptables, who 9/10 pretend they want a relationship? Plenty of dudes have been burned by women not wanting a relationship...even those that pretend they do, though it's probably more 3/10 women who will pretend they are available. It's just that the method of, "Ok, if this guy can hold off for 3 months then he's really interested," just seems far too simplistic to me. It's even a little counterintuitive in that players will probably have an easier time waiting than a good guy who's genuinely interested who hasn't been laid in quite some time. A "good guy" who hasn't gotten laid in a while will probably jump to the conclusion he is doing something wrong or the woman isn't attracted to him. His self esteem will take a hit, because he'll think "anyone else good be receiving affection from this girl by now. I should just become a player." Ok, so actual "good guys" don't think that way, but plenty of men will start to think along those lines. I have a two month window, because while that is not a long time to date someone, for me, it is long enough to know if I want things to develop towards a relationship. If things aren't going that way, sex included, I need to protect my own emotional and financial (I'm a grad student, I need a return on my $ pretty quickly) investment and bail.
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Thought may be muddied but guts are smart motherf*ckers. See, if you're like myself who invests when I get to the point of physicality, it sometimes takes awhile for me to listen to my gut instincts. It's easy to justify anything, if you want it bad enough. In my experience, players and shallow/selfish men never wait. No way. It's an EXCELLENT tool for weeding out the bad ones. Always worked for me anyway. Moi aussi, Madam. C'est vraie.
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Plenty of dudes have been burned by women not wanting a relationship...even those that pretend they do, though it's probably more 3/10 women who will pretend they are available. I won't argue with any of that. At least you're being realistic about women being a little more upfront about emotional availability. There are far more players in the male gender than females. A "good guy" who hasn't gotten laid in a while will probably jump to the conclusion he is doing something wrong or the woman isn't attracted to him. His self esteem will take a hit, because he'll think "anyone else good be receiving affection from this girl by now. I should just become a player." Ok, so actual "good guys" don't think that way, but plenty of men will start to think along those lines. I have a two month window, because while that is not a long time to date someone, for me, it is long enough to know if I want things to develop towards a relationship. If things aren't going that way, sex included, I need to protect my own emotional and financial (I'm a grad student, I need a return on my $ pretty quickly) investment and bail. Each person has requirements. I'm honest with myself and have realized I need a very strong and confident guy, in order for things to work well. If he gets intimidated or withdraws, due to insecurity, I'm not the best person for him. As for bang for the buck, if you're always paying, you need to find more financially solvent women who are willing to anty up too.
hotgurl Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 wow I feel like I am one of the only ladies who doesn't believe in holding out. If I am diggin' a guy and we are having fun together than I will have sex with him. and if we are sexually compatable great! If he sucks in bed not so great. I understanding waiting for a little while to get to know each other ect... but no more than 2 months. That is plently of time to decided whether you want to try a ltr. Plus not all relationship are serious some are just light and fun and what's more fun than sex. Plus It is nice to know if a guy has some sexual issue that could be a deal breaker. Like not giving oral or being bad in bed. oh ps JAMESM not all women say no to pregnacy sex I was super horny for 9 months I couldn't get enough.
tanbark813 Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 See, if you're like myself who invests when I get to the point of physicality, it sometimes takes awhile for me to listen to my gut instincts. It's easy to justify anything, if you want it bad enough. Ahhh, well then maybe you just need to be burned a few more times. After repeatedly ignoring my gut in previous years and getting burned by bad women I learned quickly to start paying attention and abiding by it.
JamesM Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 I have a two month window, because while that is not a long time to date someone, for me, it is long enough to know if I want things to develop towards a relationship. If things aren't going that way, sex included, I need to protect my own emotional and financial (I'm a grad student, I need a return on my $ pretty quickly) investment and bail. So if the relationship IS going good...sex NOT included, then do you bail or do you hang in there? Do you keep asking/hoping for sex or do you relax and know that it will come in good time (pun not intended..but hey it will work)?
Touche Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Moi aussi, Madam. C'est vraie. Voulez vous couchez avec moi? Uhm, no sucker..not until you prove yourself worthy!
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Ahhh, well then maybe you just need to be burned a few more times. After repeatedly ignoring my gut in previous years and getting burned by bad women I learned quickly to start paying attention and abiding by it. I learn from my mistakes, therefore, am taking actions to accommodate my own flaws...
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Voulez vous couchez avec moi? Uhm, no sucker..not until you prove yourself worthy! Ce soir, ma petite... But only if you're emotionally available...
Touche Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Ce soir, ma petite... But only if you're emotionally available... And I don't French kiss on the first date either, so don't be getting any ideas! Ok, you're seriously cracking me with your French over here. Hotgurl, you said you understand waiting to get to know each other first but at the same time you say you don't hold out. I'm not sure what you're saying. If you're not holding out and you're having sex with a guy right away, is that working for you? If not, maybe try waiting a little longer and getting to know the guy first.
oppath Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 So if the relationship IS going good...sex NOT included, then do you bail or do you hang in there? Do you keep asking/hoping for sex or do you relax and know that it will come in good time (pun not intended..but hey it will work)? It's never been an issue. When the relationship is progressing, sex has always happened. It is difficult to extrapolate outside of my experiences. I have a hard time imagining that I could feel a relationship is progressing without sexual progression. But in general, no, if everything is good in a relationship EXCEPT sex, then the relationship is not good or going well. As for bang for the buck, if you're always paying, you need to find more financially solvent women who are willing to anty up too. That is one of the things I really look for. Within the first 3 dates, I kind of expect the woman to anty up. Given my status, it is appropriate, but I usually opt for air hockey and a slice of pizza on the first few dates anyways. Each person has requirements. I'm honest with myself and have realized I need a very strong and confident guy, in order for things to work well. If he gets intimidated or withdraws, due to insecurity, I'm not the best person for him. So if someone gets intimidated or withdraws sexually, due to insecurity...I'm just saying . It happens, and sometimes men are treated like yoyo's. I know you PERSONALLY are upfront, and I could handle that, but I've had women become intimidated or withdraw sexually on me. How is that different than withdrawing emotionally? I am fine waiting an undefinable "a while" for sex, but only if I understand the woman's values and why she feels that way. Rarely is that communicated even if I inquire.
hotgurl Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 And I don't French kiss on the first date either, so don't be getting any ideas! Ok, you're seriously cracking me with your French over here. Hotgurl, you said you understand waiting to get to know each other first but at the same time you say you don't hold out. I'm not sure what you're saying. If you're not holding out and you're having sex with a guy right away, is that working for you? If not, maybe try waiting a little longer and getting to know the guy first. well I date a little differently than most people. Almost all the guys I have dated I knew as friends or co-workers beforehand. yes I did sleep with my BF the first date and we are getting married this July. I have also slept with guys quickly compare to other peoples standards and I have never had a problem with that. That being said I do understand waiting a to get to know someone before having sex. Esp if you're blind dating but I really am with tandbark on this where I wouldn't wait more than a month to have sex. I don't agree with waiting for an extended period of time. 1 month or 2 should be long enough. But personally if I don't want to have sex with someone after a month or really a couple of weeks than it is time to move on. Obviously if you are a virgin or have a religious reason to wait than that is different.
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