Cobra_X30 Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 I will NEVER EVER agree with this: Having an affair, making 'time' for you is just stealing him away from his children when they need him most. Having an affair, DOES NOT steal anything away from the children or even the W... Even the best parents are not with their children 24/7... come one.. Please reconsider this idea. To a child when you strike my mother you strike me, when you hurt my father you hurt me. I tell you from experience that in so many cases you are incorrect!
corky Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 terminal illness so im guessing she doesnt have long to live.and he's worried about getting his d34k wet? ( pardon my french)wow, i would at least hope that someone loved and respected me enough that they would spend my last moments on earth with me and caring for me with their heart and soul mine completely.. i mean at least until the wake (sarcasm).. geezus, that too much to ask?
4whatItsWorth Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 wow, i would at least hope that someone loved and respected me enough that they would spend my last moments on earth with me and caring for me with their heart and soul mine completely.. It's alright...if he does it to you too if you become sick and ill and you just say "oh it's alright, love. Remember, you did the same to your first wife with me? I understand." I would never ever want to be with a man who wanted to have an affair in the middle of the death of his wife!! "If he dreamt of this before - then he could wait just some more". Tell him you're interested in supporting him in a friendly way, but that you just can't do to another woman what you wouldn't want her do to you.
lovernotafighter Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 he defiantly is hurting and needs support, but you can be a caring friend with out a affair. I have a feeling you wouldn't be able to live with that. so then don't
Author mauropodo Posted September 17, 2007 Author Posted September 17, 2007 Thank you al girls (and boys?) for you input. No, I could notlive withmyself if I took someone´s dad away from them when they needed him the most, nor if I took time a very sick´s woman time away form her husband. But this is a horrid, horrid disease, it affects you cognitively, motorly, affectionately, and I´ve a feeling he just wants to disappear and resart his life, and yes he is terribly worried that his kids would inherit it, but I guess all he wants is to dream a bit... to get away from it all a bit...and btw, we are not amercian so our culture is a bit different, he is able to afford a great housekeeper and more help, so even before the wive´s illness he wouldn´t be around much, in fact he´s much more around right now, but I guess I just wanted to know how really wrong this is, even if he would want out, I know he´d never leave, it´s his responsability and he does face up to it, but it´s also like a prision term to him...in sickness and in health back in the days, usually did not mean such long illnesses, this could be 15 to 20 YEARS, really I am not defending him, nor am I not deeply compassionate for her, but what struck me the most of all you've said is that I´d better not get sick or think about waht he´d do to me...so I guess I´d better not see him again.
bish Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 I will NEVER EVER agree with this: Having an affair, making 'time' for you is just stealing him away from his children when they need him most. Having an affair, DOES NOT steal anything away from the children or even the W. What planet do you live on?? the hell it doesn't steal anything away from the children or the H/W. Tell that to someone like me who always stayed home with the kids while she went out f#cking around.
nakedredhairs Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 Time is stolen if its that to be taken. So its not stolen just waiting to be savedOh isnt that the cutest statement. My new friend Moe told me after the fruit festival sunday
Author mauropodo Posted September 18, 2007 Author Posted September 18, 2007 Should he just give up life as a man, a sex life, a romantic life, a life made up of plans for the future, of dreams of a second home, of traveling, to stay next to a person that keeps detiriorating everyday and hardly ever realizes what's going on? He's still very much her husband , hasn't cheated yet, he's just wondering what will happen to him and if he'll have to spend whatever good years he has left with no magic in his life as a man...as a father of course he'll make up for it, but as a husband as a man? My heart goes out to all of them , especially the children. So what can I do? LEave? Add insult to injury? I will not get involved with the children ever, until their Mama has passed and after tht only after a long time...what to do?
Author mauropodo Posted September 18, 2007 Author Posted September 18, 2007 Should he just give up life as a man, a sex life, a romantic life, a life made up of plans for the future, of dreams of a second home, of traveling, to stay next to a person that keeps detiriorating everyday and hardly ever realizes what's going on? He's still very much her husband , hasn't cheated yet, he's just wondering what will happen to him and if he'll have to spend whatever good years he has left with no magic in his life as a man...as a father of course he'll make up for it, but as a husband as a man? Should he be resigned to being the carer, and only the carer, which he has been so far, and what about everything else. This might be exaggerating but it sound to me like the long version of the ancient Hindu custom of the sati, where widows where expected to be immolated with their husbands... My heart goes out to all of them , especially the children. So what can I do? LEave? Add insult to injury? I will not get involved with the children ever, until their Mama has passed and after tht only after a long time...what to do?
whichwayisup Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Let's put it this way. 10 years from now - Can you see yourself with him? Maybe being step mom to his kids? DO you want to have your own children? Does he want more? He has to be there for his family and unless you're willing to wait quietly on the sidelines (which I don't think you should do, as you'll be wasting your life waiting for a man who's life is very much in the midst of confusion and alot of pain) for years to come until he can officially become 'yours'.
whichwayisup Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Let's put it this way. 10 years from now - Can you see yourself with him? Maybe being step mom to his kids? DO you want to have your own children? Does he want more? He has to be there for his family and unless you're willing to wait quietly on the sidelines (which I don't think you should do, as you'll be wasting your life waiting for a man who's life is very much in the midst of confusion and alot of pain) for years to come until he can officially become 'yours'.
child_of_isis Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 As a "man" he should honor his vows to his wife and marriage. Be they be fair or man made or not. He stood before his god, his family and friends and vowed "till death do us part". Unless someone held a gun to his head, he took those vows willingly. Your best bet is to detach yourself from this man. He shows lack of character and he is weak. Should he just give up life as a man, a sex life, a romantic life, a life made up of plans for the future, of dreams of a second home, of traveling, to stay next to a person that keeps detiriorating everyday and hardly ever realizes what's going on? He's still very much her husband , hasn't cheated yet, he's just wondering what will happen to him and if he'll have to spend whatever good years he has left with no magic in his life as a man...as a father of course he'll make up for it, but as a husband as a man? Should he be resigned to being the carer, and only the carer, which he has been so far, and what about everything else. This might be exaggerating but it sound to me like the long version of the ancient Hindu custom of the sati, where widows where expected to be immolated with their husbands... My heart goes out to all of them , especially the children. So what can I do? LEave? Add insult to injury? I will not get involved with the children ever, until their Mama has passed and after tht only after a long time...what to do?
norajane Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Should he just give up life as a man, a sex life, a romantic life, a life made up of plans for the future, of dreams of a second home, of traveling, to stay next to a person that keeps detiriorating everyday and hardly ever realizes what's going on? He's still very much her husband , hasn't cheated yet, he's just wondering what will happen to him and if he'll have to spend whatever good years he has left with no magic in his life as a man...as a father of course he'll make up for it, but as a husband as a man? Should he be resigned to being the carer, and only the carer, which he has been so far, and what about everything else. This might be exaggerating but it sound to me like the long version of the ancient Hindu custom of the sati, where widows where expected to be immolated with their husbands... Perhaps you disagree, but I always believed that when you marry, you commit to going through life with your partner, regardless of what life throws at you, be that illness, financial troubles, fertility problems, car accidents, unemployment, whatever. That's the whole point of marriage - that you want to go through life with that person. Certainly, you should anticipate that life may not be all sunshine and roses. A commitment is worthless if it's made only with the thought of everything going well, and then all bets are off if something goes wrong. If he's the kind of man who can't maintain his vows when something goes wrong, do you really want to be with a man like that? "Everyone wants to ride in the limo with you, but what you need is the one who will share a seat with you on the bus"
serial muse Posted September 18, 2007 Posted September 18, 2007 Perhaps you disagree, but I always believed that when you marry, you commit to going through life with your partner, regardless of what life throws at you, be that illness, financial troubles, fertility problems, car accidents, unemployment, whatever. That's the whole point of marriage - that you want to go through life with that person. Certainly, you should anticipate that life may not be all sunshine and roses. A commitment is worthless if it's made only with the thought of everything going well, and then all bets are off if something goes wrong. If he's the kind of man who can't maintain his vows when something goes wrong, do you really want to be with a man like that? "Everyone wants to ride in the limo with you, but what you need is the one who will share a seat with you on the bus" That was beautifully said, NJ. I couldn't agree more.
Bobby NoBrains Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 I've been thinking about this thread for the last 2 days, and I still don't have a definite solution to offer. Some of the posters are on one side of the argument, some on the other, but most are black or white. And this issue has so much gray in it, it's not just a simple black and white answer. In view of the wife's deterioration, is it cheating if the man, while caring for his wife and family would also *want* to have some small level of comfort for himself with another woman ? Imho, no. He has every right to be selfish also. If he were to neglect his wife and kids for the affair it's wrong, but if he's able to balance the two and if mauropod is able to handle the sharing of him, maybe it's not wrong. On the other hand, he did take his vows, too, and he should keep to them in spirit and in deed. Unless he's very strong and so deeply religious enough to deprive himself of physical and emotional comfort to dedicate his life to the care of a sick spouse, he will become wayward sooner or later. Which also brings to mind what some posters have pointed out, what happens if mauropod becomes ill ? Will he "dump" her, too ? It's really not a simple question and I suspect there are no straight-forward answers to this one. It's wrong, but it's not. It's right, but it's not. I wrote in another post about the things that make up love, and consideration, accomodation, courage and sacrifice are some of them. He has shown those so far. But love also includes affection, desire, and respect, and in the current situation it is impossible for the man to feel those for his wife. Over time he is bound to stray. Would it be easier if he went off and had relations with call-girls or some such for his needs ? Would we all judge him any different if that was the case ? Is it only the emotional attachment that he is guilty of here ? One cannot honestly expect the spouse to dedicate every waking second of their life to making their SO and kids happy. In fact, many of us advocate that happiness resides inside ourselves, and that each person should find that first. If he continues to be unhappy and resentful he will never be able to do justice to his wife and his kids. At the end of the day, he is not perfect, and neither is mauropod. Neither are any of us. A good man deserves better, the affected lady deserves better, mauropod deserves better. Who decides what each one gets or whether it *is* better for them ? At best I can advise that she follow what her soul tells her to do, for better or worse. Just my two bits .. Bobby
PoshPrincess Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 I agree with Bobby that this is not black and white. I used to be on the side of those who say that he should not cheat WHATEVER, that he married his W for better for worse, in sickness and in health, etc but unless someone you have loved has had a disease such as this then I don't really think you know. My Uncle and Aunt were childhood sweethearts, married at 18. By the time she was in her 20s she had been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. They had one daughter who spent most of her childhood helping to care for her sick mother, who deteriorated fairly rapidly (some people with this condition can be fine for years) and my uncle eventually gave up work to care for my aunt full-time (as well as her disabled elderly mother). Anyway, he nursed her for over 30 years until she died a few years ago. His life was really tough and he has spent the best part of it being someone's carer. In the last several years of my aunt's illness she couldn't do anything for herself and wouldn't have know what day of the week it was. He never once looked for love elsewhere (I guess he just isn't that kind of bloke anyway) but looking back now, I don't think I would've blamed him if he had done. Yes, men (and women) do have needs and he was not getting any of the needs met that one hopes for from a partner. I know even his daughter (who's now grown up with kids of her own) would have liked him to have a bit of 'comfort'. However, what he did was extremely commendable and maybe he will be rewarded in the next life, if you believe in that sort of thing! I totally agree with Scared in Love. If I found out I had a terminal illness there is absolutely no way I would expect or even want a partner to have to be my carer. That is NOT what you commit to someone for. I would hate for someone to see me like that, would hate to have to rely on anyone, and yes, given the choice I would go for voluntary euthanasia, were it illegal. My aunt asked my uncle to help her take her own life (she was incapable of doing it herself) but he could not bring himself to do it. This all just reminded me of a movie I saw once. The wife found out she was dying so she brought a woman into the house to live with them under the impression that he would marry her after the wife passed on. I think I saw that film. You've got to admire someone who would do that. I wouldn't mind my husband/partner being with someone else but I would find it VERY hard to think of someone else being a mother to my child. The woman in the film did it exactly the right way. She wanted to ensure that her kids would be in safe hands when she was gone.
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 I guess given my recent circumstances, I'm seeing this from the other side. I am thinking of myself being bald, in pain, incapacitated in bed, unable to care for myself and the thought of going through that while my SO is thinking of how he can manage to get himself laid during that makes me sick. I know that my daughter would be sick to know that her mother is seen as nothing at this point but a dying cockblock for her SO and some deathwatch OW waiting on the sidelines. Yes, I understand that the W is incapacitated mentally as well. I'm sure on some level she is still in there, though... Had I seen this post even a month ago, my answer may have been different but I can tell you for sure that I see it differently now.
PoshPrincess Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 I guess given my recent circumstances, I'm seeing this from the other side. I am thinking of myself being bald, in pain, incapacitated in bed, unable to care for myself and the thought of going through that while my SO is thinking of how he can manage to get himself laid during that makes me sick. I know that my daughter would be sick to know that her mother is seen as nothing at this point but a dying cockblock for her SO and some deathwatch OW waiting on the sidelines. Yes, I understand that the W is incapacitated mentally as well. I'm sure on some level she is still in there, though... Had I seen this post even a month ago, my answer may have been different but I can tell you for sure that I see it differently now. Yeah, it's funny how circumstances can totally change one's viewpoint!
Author mauropodo Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 First, thank all of you for your replies. Thank you Bobby, especially liked your response. I saw this man yesterday. It was awful. We were supposed to have lunch yesterday, had scheduled it a week in advance. In my country lunch is a 3 in the afternoon, and it is the most important meal of the day. Many times these lunches last a very long time, so I thought we would have tons of time to talk about this not progressing. Anyway at 2 45 he calls me, crying, CRYING! that he´s at home and cannot possibly make it because his wife is having an episode. She was in a very bad way and cannot stand, poor thing, to be alone. She did not even want him to go to the bathroom. Fortunatley they have a housekeeper who is there for her when he´s working or out. So this man calls me all upset crying that he jsut can´t take it anymore, that he wants it all to end now, that this life is hell, and why did this have to happen to him , he had the best life. loved his wife and is in general feeling very sorry for himself. And to please apologize him for not being able to make it. Of course I say absolutely no problem, please ,come on, don´t even think about it, etc. So we end up on the phone talking for over an hour, Im trying to console him, obviously not knowing what to say, for what can you possibly say? During this time he starts insisting that I tell him I love him, and care for him, even if just a little bit, that I promise we will be together one day, that I please bear with him, that he really likes me, that I´m so wonderful and so on and so on, and how his own sister has suggested that he have a relationship with me because he talks about me all the time, and ther´d be nothing worng with that , everyone´d understand. I kept trying to change the subject, he kept trying to go back to it. I finally distracted , made him laugh, and he kept going on about how I made him happy and laugh and that it was just what he needed to be distracted and I´m so great at doing that, etc, and finally he asks if he can come see me later, and have a drink about 6, as soon as he has seen to his wife and children and the housekeeper and organized everything. So we agree to meet later, and I am absolutley decided that I want to tell him that we can be friends and that´s it, but by now my head is all messed up and he flattered me to death, and well veeery long story shoer we go out for a drink and he tells me his is now in therapy for he has to deal with 2 losses, he has to grieve for 2 issues, his wife´s illness and... that his girlfiend, oh, yes his girlfiend! (?) of many years, prior to his wife´s illness and parallel, well she left him, poor man, and he just had it all the wife, the kids, the great joba and the grilfriend and now poor thing he´s all alone. I just could not believe my ears, I could not believe he wanted to see me to tell me this things, he´d been so upset, crying , cry ing for heaven´s sake about his wife and now he´s telling me he also had a girlfriend and that her leaving him he was also working out in therapy, and not only that, but since he wanted to be totally sincere with me, he also had some 3-4 "affairs" in the past months, because, well, frankly, he´s a man, and what´s a man to do, but he still believes we should have a realtionship--sex--and would I please refrain from seeing anyone else while we´re at it, and of course, please, he says, if and when we do start our liason, you will of course not sleep with anyone else right? Then he says he´d be ok with the fact that after we started our relationship, I pulled back, he´s understand that I was scared, if I chose to disappear (I´ve chosen so in the past) but to please let him know that I would be doing that. Never have I been more outraged or surprised and there was more to come. He progressively drank more and more, and then he started to tell me that ok, he really, really did not like me that much, that he did not think I was all that pretty, but I was lots of fun, and that he certainly was not and would not be in love with me, but he yeah, kinda liked me and hads tons of fun when he saw me, but had I noticed that I had put on weight since the last time we saw each other? And this is the man that I just recently thought was exactly that, a man, for standing by hiw wife, and being there for his family, and being strong. Oh how idiotic I felt. So I asked him to take me home, and when he left I called him on his cell, which for some reason he did not answer and left this message: You know how u asked me to let u know if I planned on dissappearing? Well I´m letting u know. Now. So bottom line, those of you that said this was really wrong were right. I just did not know how really wrong, but a man who is out looking for sex whilst living thru something like this, and then have the nerve to say that he´s grieving for both wife and girlfriend, I mean, come on... And now I just hate him and want to hurt him and make him feel as lousy and wrong as he made me feel. As unclean, and I swear nothing happened, for whcih I am so grateful. And am left with one burning question: WHY? After he dropped me off
ICallsEmAsISeesEm Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 .....that this life is hell, and why did this have to happen to him?...What a complete and utter A*SSHOLE. What's happened to HIM? He's still got his health and hasn't been reduced to a slow death like his poor wife has. Only a complete A*SSHOLE would make a statement like that. Yup, it's ALL ABOUT HIM, isn't it? Gosh Mauropodo, he's such a PRIZE. Are you SURE you don't want to change your mind and become this jerk-off's masturbatory aid so he can heap even MORE indignity on a woman whose already had her dignity stripped from her by this horrific disease? I admire your sense of COMPASSION. Contrary to others who think it was a 'man-made vow' to stand by someone in sickness or in health and therefore is subject to interpretation, it's still a VOW. What difference does it MAKE whether it's a man-made vow or not??? When you make a promise to someone, you make a PROMISE. Period.
OpenBook Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Yeah, it's funny how circumstances can totally change one's viewpoint! Posh, I bet you didn't know how totally right you were! Mauro, by the end of your last post I think I was almost as relieved as you were, that you didn't get physically involved with this - oh how I hesitate to call him a man! God, aren't you glad you found out before you went any further with him?? I think you have a guardian angel. This may take you a few weeks to mull over it and move past it... but there's been no damage done, no long-lasting effects on your life. Thank your lucky stars! In the meantime (while you're mulling)... there HAD to have been signs you missed that this guy wasn't what he appeared to be. Only you know for sure. Maybe there's a lesson in it somewhere for you. Or maybe not. It's your call. But I think everything happens for a reason.
Bobby NoBrains Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 First, thank all of you for your replies. Thank you Bobby, especially liked your response. ... And this is the man that I just recently thought was exactly that, a man, for standing by hiw wife, and being there for his family, and being strong. Oh how idiotic I felt. LOL! I feel the same way, I can only claim ignorance of all the facts I still stand by my post, however, except that, in this particular case, I seem to have been partly wrong. This guy dint deserve the time of day from you, sigh. Good luck to getting over him, as soon as possible ! Just my two bits .. Bobby
Author mauropodo Posted September 22, 2007 Author Posted September 22, 2007 Oh, guys, you are all so right! Yes, what a catch, what a PRIZE! (He actually had the nerve to tell me he was a super package, cause he was sensitive, and considerate, and a gentleman, and made very good money---actually , oh the tackyness--quoted exacly how much) The more I think about this, the more it feels like a bad scene frome a cheap movie. I´ve been thinking of emailing him a very long email stting exactly why it is that I now hate him, but as much as I wanna do it, I won´t, just because this awful, sordid story needs to end with a bit of class on somebody´s part. Also, I am now worried about the poor wife. God only knows how he treats her when no ones´s watching if he dares do all he has done. And yes, of course there were the signs that we chose to obliterate from sight in the hopes of having found that most elusive of ideals, but yes there were many small inconisderate actions, that, after all mean so much. I´m sure I´ll get over him real soon, but for now I j:mad:just wanna rant and rave and be mean and call him and insult him, but I won´t
Bobby NoBrains Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Glad you're already working him outta your system LS is a good place to get help for getting over him also !! Chin up, girl. Glad you got out before it got any worse Just my two bits .. Bobby
norajane Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 ...why did this have to happen to him, he had the best life. loved his wife and is in general feeling very sorry for himself... he tells me his is now in therapy for he has to deal with 2 losses, he has to grieve for 2 issues, his wife´s illness and... that his girlfiend, oh, yes his girlfiend! (?) of many years, prior to his wife´s illness and parallel, well she left him, poor man, and he just had it all the wife, the kids, the great joba and the grilfriend and now poor thing he´s all alone. and not only that, but since he wanted to be totally sincere with me, he also had some 3-4 "affairs" in the past months, because, well, frankly, he´s a man, and what´s a man to do, but he still believes we should have a realtionship--sex--and would I please refrain from seeing anyone else while we´re at it, and of course, please, he says, if and when we do start our liason, you will of course not sleep with anyone else right?I'm just...speechless. Feel glad that you didn't get mixed up further with this guy's mess!
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