people judge me coz i take my clothes off for a living. drives me nuts.

[halfarock]

Having been around strippers, (my ex-girlfriend was one) they don’t just make their money off of getting naked in front of strangers. The strippers who are most successful tend to be social butterflies. That is to say that they spend a lot of time talking with their customers. Many of their regulars tend to be lonely men who go in just for the chance to talk to a pretty girl. Even the married men are there to get an interaction that maybe they aren’t getting at home with their wife.

 

Unfortunately we live in a society where too many people can’t see past sex, or the possibility of sex in every interaction between men and women.

 

Of course there are those men who go to strip clubs only to look at naked women. My ex used to say that those types would tend to stare at her crotch which was okay with her because she really didn’t like talking to them or even necessarily looking at them. As long as they kept giving her dollars, they could look all they wanted.

 

Touching, especially when naked, is always prohibited. It gets guys thrown out and girls fired. What you watch on television or in the movies or play in your imagination isn’t necessarily reality.

 

People used to ask me why I didn’t get jealous because of the all guys my girlfriend interacted with. I knew what she did, I’d go in and watch her from time to time. I always thought, on the balance, everything considered, the world was made better by what she did. She made a lot of people happy, men and women.

[popey]

Having been around strippers, (my ex-girlfriend was one) they don’t just make their money off of getting naked in front of strangers. The strippers who are most successful tend to be social butterflies. That is to say that they spend a lot of time talking with their customers. Many of their regulars tend to be lonely men who go in just for the chance to talk to a pretty girl. Even the married men are there to get an interaction that maybe they aren’t getting at home with their wife.

 

Unfortunately we live in a society where too many people can’t see past sex, or the possibility of sex in every interaction between men and women.

 

Of course there are those men who go to strip clubs only to look at naked women. My ex used to say that those types would tend to stare at her crotch which was okay with her because she really didn’t like talking to them or even necessarily looking at them. As long as they kept giving her dollars, they could look all they wanted.

 

Touching, especially when naked, is always prohibited. It gets guys thrown out and girls fired. What you watch on television or in the movies or play in your imagination isn’t necessarily reality.

 

People used to ask me why I didn’t get jealous because of the all guys my girlfriend interacted with. I knew what she did, I’d go in and watch her from time to time. I always thought, on the balance, everything considered, the world was made better by what she did. She made a lot of people happy, men and women.

 

are you suggesting that for some of the male visitors of the club, there is nothing sexual about the experience? b/c I've heard this suggestion, and my question to that is: then why aren't the pretty girls wearing pjs or suits and reading poetry or conducting a sports talk radio type of show? why are they naked or near-naked, dancing sexily, and pushing their cleavage together or bending over to encourage your tip? (not trying to be combative, truly exploring the issue and different view points or mind sets.)

[halfarock]

I don’t know about elsewhere but all of the strip clubs that I’ve ever gone to, all the ones that my ex-girlfriend worked at were in essence neighborhood bars. Most of the customers just came in for an after work drink, to see a few familiar faces, to play pool, to waste their money in the state owned gambling machines. The strippers are almost an after thought, more for ambiance than central to the experience of being there. Many people would go in and never tip the strippers, never even look at them except in passing.

 

Some of the girls would complain about a group of men sitting at their rack and just talking among themselves, mostly ignoring the girl. Most girls wouldn’t say anything as long as the guys were tipping. (a “rack” is what strippers refer to as that little bar like thing that surrounds the stage, where people sit their drinks and lay their tips.

 

On Friday and Saturday nights most customers are groups that are bar hopping. They’re loud, they’re crude, and they’re drunken fools. I’m sure there is some sexual thoughts going on but it doesn’t seem to be any more sexual than with a good looking, friendly, busty waitress at a restaurant.

[Aintayankee]

The industry is probably full of healthy and normal people, and that is good or whatever. But is seems so vain for guys to pay for that, just to get a hot woman to 'tease' them as far as evolution goes. People that are attracted to each other should hook up, not be spun into economics. I guess the stippers aren't attracted to most of their clients.

 

I just don't see the point/what would incline a woman to choose that field, do they really just like dancing exotic. I dunno. If I found out someone was an exotic dancer, I wouldn't think badly of them. I dunno, I don't understand sex, so they are kinda different than normal women, but not really. I dunno.

 

Anyway, are you still angry emmaUK? Dunno how our posts would help you.

[Trialbyfire]

And thats your choice but everybody doesn't feel the same way that you do. I have never been a stripper but getting paid to be objectified is better than giving it away for free. Women and Men are objectified everyday in advertising, magazines, television, etc. Any job that sells a product or service requires convincing people to give you their money as opposed to someone else.

 

Emma is in the entertainment industry and obviously there is a lot of consumers for that type of business because there are so many stripclubs.

This is Emma's choice. Having said that, to expect respect for dancing nude in public or being a porn star, has its burdens to bear. If you don't like the prevailing attitudes that follow the porn industry, why do it? There's so many alternatives for bringing food to the table. No one is holding a gun to the head of strippers and forcing them to dance.

 

What I can respect about Emma is that she does care about her daughter and tries to be a good mother. Also, she is working towards a career change.

[glittergurl]

I don't care. We can be friends if you want lol

[nittygritty]

This is Emma's choice. Having said that, to expect respect for dancing nude in public or being a porn star, has its burdens to bear. If you don't like the prevailing attitudes that follow the porn industry, why do it? There's so many alternatives for bringing food to the table. No one is holding a gun to the head of strippers and forcing them to dance.

 

What I can respect about Emma is that she does care about her daughter and tries to be a good mother. Also, she is working towards a career change.

 

Tbf, We are all human people and to view someone as less than that simply because their job title is "stripper" rather than actress/model/dancer/waitress/performance artist, doesn't seem fair to me. If Emma were executing puppies down at the pound, I might understand all the fuss but not dancing naked to support her kid and herself.

 

Emma says she likes what she does and the money she makes but not the judgement she sometimes endures because of the stereotype, basically. Emma is looking at her alternatives for bringing food to the table but her number one job is raising a 3 year old daughter by herself.

 

I guess I can relate to Emma because of what it feels like being a single parent and having the total responsibility of raising a child by yourself. I may be wrong but I think that society sometimes judges women more harshly than men.

 

Nobody is walking in Emma's moccassins but Emma. It wouldn't take someone holding a gun to my head to see that if I could make more money dancing a few hours naked and be back home to take care of a young child than I could working 60-70 hours a week making a minimal amount to pay for and put my child in childcare and only scrape by, what the logical solution would be, temporarily. It sounds like Emma has been doing the best she could under the circumstance and is working towards a career change. I respect that about Emma as well.

[Trialbyfire]

Tbf, We are all human people and to view someone as less than that simply because their job title is "stripper" rather than actress/model/dancer/waitress/performance artist, doesn't seem fair to me. If Emma were executing puppies down at the pound, I might understand all the fuss but not dancing naked to support her kid and herself.

 

Emma says she likes what she does and the money she makes but not the judgement she sometimes endures because of the stereotype, basically. Emma is looking at her alternatives for bringing food to the table but her number one job is raising a 3 year old daughter by herself.

 

I guess I can relate to Emma because of what it feels like being a single parent and having the total responsibility of raising a child by yourself. I may be wrong but I think that society sometimes judges women more harshly than men.

 

Nobody is walking in Emma's moccassins but Emma. It wouldn't take someone holding a gun to my head to see that if I could make more money dancing a few hours naked and be back home to take care of a young child than I could working 60-70 hours a week making a minimal amount to pay for and put my child in childcare and only scrape by, what the logical solution would be, temporarily. It sounds like Emma has been doing the best she could under the circumstance and is working towards a career change. I respect that about Emma as well.

To turn that around on you, would you let your children play with a porn star's children? Would you personally want to be bosom buddies with a porn star? If not, why not?

[NYCmitch25]

 

Anyway, are you still angry emmaUK? Dunno how our posts would help you.

 

She's venting, she is waiting for posters to express disdain and then promptly attacks them.

 

It's a shallow argument - expecting cultural norms to instantly be shattered for something that DOES have shady moral standing is stupid. If I said I'm in preditory lending or a sleezy car selling business, it indicates I have put money before principals. Conversely there are millions of humans suffering at the cost of just being born. (eyes roll)

[johan]

Emma,

 

I am not a judgmental person under most circumstances. And I've decided I will not make any judgments at all until I've seen you in action. And chances are I will be very accepting. So, chin up!

[lindya]

She's venting, she is waiting for posters to express disdain and then promptly attacks them.

 

It's a shallow argument - expecting cultural norms to instantly be shattered for something that DOES have shady moral standing is stupid. If I said I'm in preditory lending or a sleezy car selling business, it indicates I have put money before principals.

 

Unless Emma herself thinks it's unprincipled to make money out of stripping then she isn't putting money before principles. Except, perhaps, other people's principles which she has no obligation to abide by so long as she isn't causing them harm. My main thought about someone who was doing that for a living would relate to the subculture she was probably exposed to.

 

I tend to see strip-clubs as being the legal, glamorous (to widely varying degrees) face of an industry that makes a lot of its money through vice. I'm not sure how easy it is for anyone to work in that business and not have exposure to an unsavoury subculture, and I'd be very dubious if Emma claimed that none of her colleagues table-dance in order to fund a habit.

 

Like Emma, I live in the UK. I think Emma's working class, and probably hasn't been through the higher education system. It sounds as though she has plans to change that in the future, but for the moment the people who are likely to be closest to her in terms of background are also the people who, unless they're also involved in her line of work, are liable to be the most noisily and insultingly judgemental about her being a lapdancer.

 

Women who are higher up on the socio-economic scale might think what she does for a living sounds like a blast. Unlike the girls at the bottom of the socio-economic pile, their background results in them feeling less aware of, or vulnerable to, that subculture she inevitably has some associations with (as much as she might try to dissociate herself from it). They can afford to take a liberal stance....but ultimately these aren't women who Emma's likely to have much in common/create any kind of genuine connection with.

[rainfall]

Tbf, We are all human people and to view someone as less than that simply because their job title is "stripper" rather than actress/model/dancer/waitress/performance artist, doesn't seem fair to me. If Emma were executing puppies down at the pound, I might understand all the fuss but not dancing naked to support her kid and herself.

 

.

 

Not everyone agrees with stripping. Some people don't think it should even be around as a job for someone to have. To expect those people to not view the stripper as less is wrong. If someone does something I view as wrong no matter the reason I will think less of them.

Sorry, thats just the way it is. If Emma wants people to not view her this way she should find a job that doesn't involve getting naked for strangers.

[Road Rage]

rainfall

 

You said "If Emma wants people to not view her this way she should find a job that doesn`t involve getting naked for strangers"

 

But I say she should just get on with stripping and not concern herself with what others think. I don`t think anyone should change themselves for what others think.

 

Sooo....I guess I come on a wee bit strong by reminding someone that they and their profession are not unique and most if not all people at some point are judged by others.

 

And then Emma had a hissy fit:o

 

But I am not down on her stripping. I say strip away and I wouldn`t mind checking her out myself:D She may make a few bucks.

 

But I sure wouldn`t let on who I was;)

[allina]

I feel bad that your friends have turned on you due to your job. Though I don't personally know any strippers I would not discriminate against having a friend that did this type of work.

 

However if I was a mother I would not feel comfortable sending my kid to a friends house if the mother was a stripper. It's bias but that's how it goes.

[nittygritty]

To turn that around on you, would you let your children play with a porn star's children? Would you personally want to be bosom buddies with a porn star? If not, why not?

 

I wouldn't let my child go over and play at anyone's house that I don't know without me being there. It doesn't matter to me if the parents are doctors, lawyers or porn stars and I would never tell my child that they can't be friends at school with another child because their parents are porn stars or try to steer them from a school friendship for that reason.

 

As far as I know I don't know any porn stars but I do have a neighbor friend that used to be a stripper that I met through our kids school friendship. She is a responsible parent and a good person, does that count?

 

In my early 20's, I briefly dated a guy that was a personal trainer and stripper to pay for his college education. I went to watch a few of his shows and even helped him out by taking his picture with customers for his tips. His job was not that different than any other job in the entertainment or service oriented industry. He didn't have sex with customers or do drugs or even drink alcohol.

 

I have waited on a lot of tables in my life and I have on occasion experienced firsthand the difference in treatment by some customers who treat those in the service industry disrespectfully and I'm disgusted when a rude customers treatment towards me changes if they find out by chance that I'm an owner waiting the table.

 

I'm also a single Mom. I can relate to what Emma's experiencing and I think its wrong that people treat other people that way simply because of their job title.

 

As a parent I wouldn't let my daughter go to spend the night over at a friends house because both parents were alcoholics. The parents were also Doctors but that does not impress me as to who they are as people and parents.

[Trialbyfire]

I wouldn't let my child go over and play at anyone's house that I don't know without me being there. It doesn't matter to me if the parents are doctors, lawyers or porn stars and I would never tell my child that they can't be friends at school with another child because their parents are porn stars or try to steer them from a school friendship for that reason.

 

As far as I know I don't know any porn stars but I do have a neighbor friend that used to be a stripper that I met through our kids school friendship. She is a responsible parent and a good person, does that count?

 

In my early 20's, I briefly dated a guy that was a personal trainer and stripper to pay for his college education. I went to watch a few of his shows and even helped him out by taking his picture with customers for his tips. His job was not that different than any other job in the entertainment or service oriented industry. He didn't have sex with customers or do drugs or even drink alcohol.

 

I have waited on a lot of tables in my life and I have on occasion experienced firsthand the difference in treatment by some customers who treat those in the service industry disrespectfully and I'm disgusted when a rude customers treatment towards me changes if they find out by chance that I'm an owner waiting the table.

 

I'm also a single Mom. I can relate to what Emma's experiencing and I think its wrong that people treat other people that way simply because of their job title.

 

As a parent I wouldn't let my daughter go to spend the night over at a friends house because both parents were alcoholics. The parents were also Doctors but that does not impress me as to who they are as people and parents.

You didn't directly answer my question. Would you befriend a porn star or would you allow your children to be friends with a porn star's child/children?

 

Btw, I tip well and am friendly to people in the service industry. Since I don't frequent strip bars or support anything to do with the porn industry, I could be considered hostile to it. My personal opinion on porn of any kind, including stripping, is that as long as it doesn't affect me, I could care less...but...it's not going to have any....exposure...in my life or any future child's life. If I had a partner who indulged in it, I wouldn't care as long as it has no impact on myself or a future child's.

[nittygritty]

You didn't directly answer my question. Would you befriend a porn star or would you allow your children to be friends with a porn star's child/children?

 

Btw, I tip well and am friendly to people in the service industry. Since I don't frequent strip bars or support anything to do with the porn industry, I could be considered hostile to it. My personal opinion on porn of any kind, including stripping, is that as long as it doesn't affect me, I could care less...but...it's not going to have any....exposure...in my life or any future child's life. If I had a partner who indulged in it, I wouldn't care as long as it has no impact on myself or a future child's.

 

I don't know what your definition of a "porn star" is but if it is someone who has sex for money in X-rated films. No, I wouldn't befriend them nor would I allow my children to be friends with their kids outside of school.

 

I reread my other post and your right, it does matter to me if someone is a porn star and I see your point about the stigma attached. Sorry bout that : )

[NYCmitch25]

Unless Emma herself thinks it's unprincipled to make money out of stripping then she isn't putting money before principles. Except, perhaps, other people's principles which she has no obligation to abide by so long as she isn't causing them harm. My main thought about someone who was doing that for a living would relate to the subculture she was probably exposed to.

 

I tend to see strip-clubs as being the legal, glamorous (to widely varying degrees) face of an industry that makes a lot of its money through vice. I'm not sure how easy it is for anyone to work in that business and not have exposure to an unsavoury subculture, and I'd be very dubious if Emma claimed that none of her colleagues table-dance in order to fund a habit.

 

Like Emma, I live in the UK. I think Emma's working class, and probably hasn't been through the higher education system. It sounds as though she has plans to change that in the future, but for the moment the people who are likely to be closest to her in terms of background are also the people who, unless they're also involved in her line of work, are liable to be the most noisily and insultingly judgemental about her being a lapdancer.

 

Women who are higher up on the socio-economic scale might think what she does for a living sounds like a blast. Unlike the girls at the bottom of the socio-economic pile, their background results in them feeling less aware of, or vulnerable to, that subculture she inevitably has some associations with (as much as she might try to dissociate herself from it). They can afford to take a liberal stance....but ultimately these aren't women who Emma's likely to have much in common/create any kind of genuine connection with.

 

Well you are right, what really matters is what she thinks about it. However, she is pitching her complaint on what other people think of lapdancers which is why I've implied that it's their cultural perception which she is expecting to instantly change. But she isn't trying to change anyone, she just is tried of being judged (rightfully) and it's evident in this thread; five people state that they think she is cool and don't have any such hangups and the one person who does is promptly lambasted.

 

You've stated that : "but for the moment the people who are likely to be closest to her in terms of background are also the people who, unless they're also involved in her line of work, are liable to be the most noisily and insultingly judgmental about her being a lap-dancer." which I'm sure is true. And WRONG. I'm not saying that cultural norms or traditions are a good thing here, I'm saying it's par for the course. The British seem to be big on hierarchy from their empire days, even fighting a bloody war of the Falklands. geesh. In fact poor white Americans in previous centuries used poor blacks in the same fashion which was largely ironic since it actually was a great detriment to themselves - they should shook up the establishment instead of listening to it.

[popey]

I think some folks are taking the worthy ideal of "don't judge" a little far here.

 

I believe in Emma's right to strip. I don't conclude that the choice is necessarily a correlated variable to bad parenting. But I think that it would be a negative factor in the whole picture of wether she is someone I want to befreind or not. Why is this necessarily judgemental? She makes a choice I don't readily agree with. If a woman chooses to be with a man who treats her like garbage, or is always preaching god and religion, or is against gay marriage or immigration rights for that matter, or is pro-war.... these things are also her right, and still things I would view as a negative factor in determining if she was someone who's friendship I could enjoy or value and if she is someone I want my kids (hypothetical kids) to have much exposure to.

 

I'm not sure I see what's wrong with that.

[NYCmitch25]

Unless Emma herself thinks it's unprincipled to make money out of stripping then she isn't putting money before principles. Except, perhaps, other people's principles which she has no obligation to abide by so long as she isn't causing them harm. My main thought about someone who was doing that for a living would relate to the subculture she was probably exposed to.

 

.....

 

Like Emma, I live in the UK. I think Emma's working class, and probably hasn't been through the higher education system. It sounds as though she has plans to change that in the future, but for the moment the people who are likely to be closest to her in terms of background are also the people who, unless they're also involved in her line of work, are liable to be the most noisily and insultingly judgemental about her being a lapdancer.

 

Women who are higher up on the socio-economic scale might think what she does for a living sounds like a blast. Unlike the girls at the bottom of the socio-economic pile, their background results in them feeling less aware of, or vulnerable to, that subculture she inevitably has some associations with (as much as she might try to dissociate herself from it). They can afford to take a liberal stance....but ultimately these aren't women who Emma's likely to have much in common/create any kind of genuine connection with.

 

Well you are right, what really matters is what she thinks about it. However, she is pitching her complaint on what other people think of lap-dancers which is why I've implied that it's cultural perception and thus inevitable. She isn't trying to change anyone, she just is tried of being judged (rightfully), it's evident in this thread; five people state that they no such hangups and the one person who does is promptly lambasted.

 

You've stated that : "but for the moment the people who are likely to be closest to her in terms of background are also the people who, unless they're also involved in her line of work, are liable to be the most noisily and insultingly judgmental about her being a lap-dancer." which I'm sure is true. And WRONG. I'm not saying that cultural norms or traditions are a good thing here, I'm saying it's par for the course. The British seem to be big on hierarchy from their empire days, even fighting a bloody war of the Falklands. geesh. In fact poor white Americans in previous centuries used poor blacks in the same fashion which was largely ironic since it actually was a great detriment to themselves - they should shook up the establishment instead of listening to it.

[tinktronik]

Emma,

I danced for a while . It is definitly a feasable way to get your bills paid your kids fed and a path to a better life .If you use it as such . I agree a certain percentage of people become uncomfortable by it . Thats their make-up , you can't change it . I had long periods of time where noone knew what i was doing for a living it became the ignore or change the subject que in my life and most people respected that .

I found that it also became with many women I knew ...The point in an argument when they were upset or got their feelings hurt ...it went from friend to shes a stripper ...slut... i.e. bad mother morally degraded . But this would only be a point of attack used as defensiveness.

My larger problem was with the comments of men (friends) who were not thinking. "I'd pay you to take your clothes off anytime " is not an appropriate compliment sitting on a patio with a group of friends having lunch. Just insinsitive things.

 

I just learned to become completely and (no pun intended ) nakedly honest with poeople. If a woman ran off . I would respond " I know you are upset right now, but if you have secretly harbored some problem with what I do for a living perhaps you should be more fullfilled in your own life as to not judge others , and if what you have to say is just in anger if you intend to be my friend anytime in the future I would suggest you never make such statements again .Because I will not tolerate a friend or even an aquaintence who says such things about me ."

 

Men I took a different aproach with , I found that men that make discomforting statements towards you, simply need a bit of discomfort themselves. Remind them that inapropriate things hurt feelings .

 

Emma there is nothing you can do about what other people think, I would suggest you simply find a way to make up a fake job heading and description or just don't tell people what you do at all.

[Trialbyfire]

I don't know what your definition of a "porn star" is but if it is someone who has sex for money in X-rated films. No, I wouldn't befriend them nor would I allow my children to be friends with their kids outside of school.

 

I reread my other post and your right, it does matter to me if someone is a porn star and I see your point about the stigma attached. Sorry bout that : )

Not an issue ng. I know myself well enough that if I had my own, I would be fiercely protective of them, since I've always adored children and are somewhat like that with my nephews. As a mother yourself, I'm guessing you could easily relate to it.

[Cobra_X30]

Buying food and shelter for her kid seems healthy. Are you willing to financially provide for her and her daughter until she finds a job you approve of?

 

Emma is making money dancing naked. I can think of a whole lot worse jobs than that. Septic tank sucker, IRS auditor, criminal defense attorney, proctologist, telemarketer, credit collector, etc.

 

 

You just proved that you dont get it!

 

What do you think it teaches you when others only value you based on your sexuality? Do you think that bieng in this profession provides her control over that?

 

Go read some studies about how children of strippers do in life!

[allina]

 

Go read some studies about how children of strippers do in life!

 

That's interesting, what did these studies find?

 

I just can't get over the fact that a mother should not strip. Now I have nothing against the idea of stripping, I don't mind strip clubs but I think that as a mother a woman needs to step her sh*t up. To me it's a similar issue as smoking pot. I don't have an issue with marijuana, I smoke a little once in a while but I think it's one of those things that needs to stop when you become a parent.

 

This is actually an issue I feel really strongly about. I see women who are mothers do all types of things I don't think they should be doing. I really think that if you chose to bring a child in to this world you have zero business taking your clothes off for strangers, doing drugs, sleeping around or being out all night parting. It isn't fair for your kid not to have their mom home at night and for you to be putting yourself in any risky situation.

 

Lastly, I know that no one is perfect and that we all have different life experiences but I feel like most strippers have made some serious mistakes in life and are not the most stable people.

[lino]

People are judged on their occupation all the time. Many people will even choose a partner based on what their occupation is, which is fair enough. For me a woman that's a stripper presents no problems but for many that isn't the case. This is a characteristic of the society we live in & we can't change it. The only thing is to be happy with what you do or change jobs, no other way around it. People will judge you no matter what career you have.