Should I Stay With Him?

[shadowplay]

Perhaps some of you have been following the ups and downs of my new relationship (it's been about 2 1/2 months). In a lot of ways it's been the first healthy relationship I've had; in others I feel increasingly insecure and fearful. I just visited him this week for a few days in NY. We hadn't seen each other in a week. Things were awesome the first night. We couldn't keep our hands off each other, he seemed really into me and we had a great time.

 

But I started to feel insecure the second day. The thing that triggered it had nothing to do with him. I have a lot of insecurities concerning my body (I've been diagnosed with body dysmorphia disorder) and since I arrived in NY I had been overeating since there's so much good food everywhere. By the second day I was with him, I was already starting to feel really bloated and could see the difference in my body when I looked in the mirror. Walking around with him that day I felt unattractive and undesirable, especially compared to the gads of beautiful, skinny girls passing us everywhere in Manhattan. I know he thinks I'm beautiful -- he says it quite often -- but I feared that he would change his mind or compare me to others and decide I wasn't so great. So that took a toll on my spirit and I started to feel pretty uncomfortable around him. Then he seemed to get a bit more distant. That night we were supposed to watch a movie together. We sat in his living room and he turned the movie on, but he fiddled with his cellphone during the WHOLE movie and hardly paid any attention to me. That really pissed me off but I didn't say anything. He's never done anything like that before. He's always very attentive. I started to feel like he must be not feeling that attracted to me because I had gained a couple pounds since the day before.

 

The last morning we were together I finally said something to him about my insecurities. I brought something up that he had said a few weeks ago which really disturbed me at the time and still haunts my thoughts. We had had a great weekend and were lying in his bed. I said to him that he's a bit hard to read at times and we got on the subject of how emotionally guarded he was. Then he said "I wonder if I'll ever fall in love with anybody." WTF. I got upset and he said he's just really cautious when he feels like love might be possible because he has trust issues. He also fell head over heels for two girls in high school he didn't even know, and promised himself after that painful experience he would never pine away again. He said he's very closed off emotionally because if he let himself feel he would be miserable all the time since his family situation is so messed up. I asked him if he loved his last gf (the only other gf he's had). He said he did in a way but he wasn't really "in love" with her. He also said he's wondering if he's falling in love with me and the short answer is "yes" but at first I was confused and said "yes to what?" and he said "it's too embarrassing to say."

 

One of the things that upset me was two weeks before that talk he sent me a few emails proclaiming his passion for me, saying he felt "love was afoot" and saying he was "fighting his desire for me" etc etc, but then he seemed to cool off. Maybe it was because we finally had sex after?

 

So, yesterday morning I said to him I was still sort of upset about that discussion. He said "Well, I'm not really sure how true it is." He paused for a minute and then added "If it makes you feel any better I feel like I'm slowly falling for you." I said, "I feel like you don't care about me." And he said surprised "What makes you think that?" I said "I don't know." And he said "I do care about you." He said he was confused the last few days about why I had been distant.

 

What do you guys think? Should I be concerned that he's only falling for me "slowly"? I mean if his feelings for me at this point aren't that strong, will they ever be?

 

I'm in love with him, but so scared of getting hurt. I can't seem to be myself around him because I like him so much, and I"m scared he won't fall in love with me until I feel comfortable...so it's sort of a Catch 22. I feel like there must be something lacking about me if his feelings aren't stronger. I keep on obsessing about how to act around him to make him love me.

 

I really need some input on this, thanks. Try not to be too harsh, because I'm pretty sensitive about this topic.

[shadowplay]

Just wanted to add that he has always been the initiator. He was the one who pursued and asked me out, he had a crush on me before I liked him, etc. That's why it feels weird to have the tables turned where I'm in the position of feeling more for him than he does for me.

[Saxis]

I keep on obsessing about how to act around him to make him love me.

 

This really set off a red flag for me while reading your post. This just isn't possible. You can't "make" him love you. You NEED to be yourself. If you had insecurities about the way you looked that day, I'm sure he would've reassured you immediately if you brought it up. He probably had NO idea what you were thinking. He probably even would've even payed extra attention to you just to keep reminding you throughout the day!

 

Things just sound way too fast for only 2.5 months. Maybe you both need to back off a bit, it sounds kinda pushy. I think it should start slowly. I never really fell in love with my X until we'd known each other for 3-4 years, and then about another 6 months of dating. Of course, my 3 year failed marriage is nothing to compare too...

[shadowplay]

Thanks for the input, but I don't know if 2.5 months is too fast. It seems to me that if you're going to fall in love with somebody, it would generally happen within the first couple of months. Perhaps it varies from person to person. Anybody else with any insight/advice? Is this guy 'just not that into me'? Should I stay with him or give things more of a chance to develop?

[Krytellan]

All of these creative statements that men say along the lines of:

- I fell hard once, I won't do it again

- I fell in love and had my heart broken so I'm being cautious

and any variation thereof is (in my experience, as I have said these things) are complete crap. What is really being said is "I don't want the commitment". The confusion you're feeling is spot on because he is trying to keep himself distant from you. You have a LTR right? What a great situation for him, random romantic encounters and free to live his own life otherwise. You can let him drag you along in a neverending cycle of confusion if you want, it's your life.

 

As far as your insecurities, his behavior is feeding your insecurities. Do you think that's a good thing?

[shadowplay]

All of these creative statements that men say along the lines of:

- I fell hard once, I won't do it again

- I fell in love and had my heart broken so I'm being cautious

and any variation thereof is (in my experience, as I have said these things) are complete crap. What is really being said is "I don't want the commitment". The confusion you're feeling is spot on because he is trying to keep himself distant from you. You have a LTR right? What a great situation for him, random romantic encounters and free to live his own life otherwise. You can let him drag you along in a neverending cycle of confusion if you want, it's your life.

 

As far as your insecurities, his behavior is feeding your insecurities. Do you think that's a good thing?

 

Well it is LDR at this point. We dated for about a month and a half and then he moved to NY (he had been planning the move for awhile before he met because he's going to school there). To his credit, he was really hoping I would come to NY with him this fall, begged me several times to run away with me, and he knows I'll be there in the spring. He also takes a four hour bus frequently to see me.

 

But maybe you do have a point. It's good to hear a guy's opinion. Do you think he'll ever open himself up completely to me or is that just wishful thinking? Also, do you think it's something about me that doesn't make him fully commit? Like if I was different in some way...more confident, whatever, he would feel differently?

 

I don't know...should I talk about this further with him or will he just see that as needy? Is it better to just break him loose? I feel like sending him an email and just totally being direct about everything that's worrying me, but I don't know.

[Krytellan]

Do you think he'll ever open himself up completely to me or is that just wishful thinking? Also, do you think it's something about me that doesn't make him fully commit? Like if I was different in some way...more confident, whatever, he would feel differently?

 

I don't know...should I talk about this further with him or will he just see that as needy? Is it better to just break him loose? I feel like sending him an email and just totally being direct about everything that's worrying me, but I don't know.

 

The chances of him opening up any more are slim IMO. If he hasn't yet, then he is unlikely to. There are those rare occurences when someone becomes more and more into someone they are with, but pretty rare. I don't necessarily think it's anything about you per se, just that he would want all options available to him... all options outside the realm of you. If you think that anything you can do can make him commit more to you then all you are doing is succeeding at stripping away your own values and self-worth. Do you want that? Is any man worth that?

 

The way I see it, I think the sooner you bring this to a head the better. If he's going to pull away from you from being needy, wouldn't you rather have it happen 2.5 months in rather than 8 months or a year?

 

Also, I say this til I'm blue in the face but I don't think anyone ever agrees with me... is a 2.5 month relationship really worth all of this grief. Shouldn't this be the best and most electric time of the relationship. If you're already having these difficulties, you're establishing a bad precedent.

[oppath]

All of these creative statements that men say along the lines of:

- I fell hard once, I won't do it again

- I fell in love and had my heart broken so I'm being cautious

and any variation thereof is (in my experience, as I have said these things) are complete crap. What is really being said is "I don't want the commitment". The confusion you're feeling is spot on because he is trying to keep himself distant from you. You have a LTR right? What a great situation for him, random romantic encounters and free to live his own life otherwise. You can let him drag you along in a neverending cycle of confusion if you want, it's your life.

 

As far as your insecurities, his behavior is feeding your insecurities. Do you think that's a good thing?

 

Agreed but "it takes me more than a couple months for me to be in love" is NOT crap. For me, I can't say I love you until we've endured a couple fights, until after we've seen each other struggle in parts of our lives (and together), and I can look at that person with no contempt and absolute endearment.

[shadowplay]

Thanks again for all the input, guys. I still feel undecided. Part of me feels like I shouldn't put up with this...but part of me also feels like maybe if I just shut out my insecurities and tried to enjoy the relationship things would naturally evolve. In the past when I've tried that approach, we've gotten closer and had a good time. It seems like he only gets distant when I start to let my insecurities take control and affect my demeanor. He also tells me that is feelings for me are increasing the more time he spends with me, and I do get that sense. So I don't know? Am I just being impatient or sabotaging myself? Yes, things should be going swimmingly at 2.5 months for most people, but I'm extremely neurotic and it may be the case that any relationship would give me grief. This certainly has been much healthier than past relationships I've had. So I'm feeling kind of fifty fifty about this.

 

What do you think? Should I send him an email and be direct about what's bugging me, or would that completely sabotage any chance of success we have?

[Krytellan]

What I think happens is that you are able to block out your insecurities (which will always only be a temporary fix until you address the underlying issues there, but I digress) for a short time. In response, you get more satisfaction in the relationship and are able to enjoy it more. However, in getting this little bit of improvement, you find yourself starving for more. After a bit you wonder why you aren't getting more and you naturally arrive back to your insecurities.

 

You seem really undecided, so I have an idea that might work for you. Have a talk with him, if not in person then on the phone, NOT over Email. Lay it out to him, that you feel like he's kinda standoffish and that you feel like at this point you need to know where this relationship is heading. you can add that the "luke warmness" of the situation makes you feel insecure and that you don't want that for yourself. And in order for you to move on comfortable and true to yourself, you need him to put aside his generic lines and tell you what he feels.

 

If in this conversation he cannot stray away from his generic template statements about being afraid blah blah blah, then he is undeniably telling you that he does not want a committed relationship with you. But get it out there, make it come to a head, it may be the only way for you to hit this issue and move on accordingly. You won't be able to handle this if it stays on its present course.

[shadowplay]

here are excerpts from two emails he sent me a month ago:

 

don't know if you've read my former email; it was sloppy and perhaps it confused you. The last two nights have stirred up my emotions and I'm trying not to overreact to the sudden torrents of excitement and anticipation. I think I am just adjusting to not being a voyeur (even though I've been in relationships before). Whatever.

Earlier email he was referring to:

 

I suppose I should also express how much I appreciate your company.

Seldom do the heavens introduce me to others that share so many

interests (and disinterests). Even more seldom are those individuals

female, stunningly intelligent, and jaw-droppingly beautiful. I

confess that I am currently fighting my desire for you (I have had

several hurtful pining experiences). I take careful steps when love

is afoot, and I hope that you do the same. I hope to have a

relationship with a bounty of passion with little obsession. Perhaps

you too suffer this malady, perhaps I am just neurotic.In any case, it feels natural being close to you; I hope that you feel the same. What are your thoughts on Tuesday's activities?

 

This is what confuses me...where did all this passion go? I don't get it. It makes me sad to read this...

[Krytellan]

I take careful steps when love

is afoot, and I hope that you do the same. I hope to have a

relationship with a bounty of passion with little obsession. Perhaps

you too suffer this malady, perhaps I am just neurotic.

 

Honestly this right here sounds like he's roundaboutly trying to tell you he wants to have an uncommitted (FWB) relationship with you. Maybe others that disagree with me can chime in, but this sounds like a vague and indirect attempt at that. When do you ever tell someone you have feelings for to guard their feelings unless you don't want them to fall for you? That makes things messy.

 

I get a sense you are just going to do what you're gonna do and that no amount of wrods will change that.

 

No one talks to someone about feelings in this way and then turns around and says, 'but I can't commit... I'm afraid." The feelings are there or they aren't. I may be alone, but the more I hear the sleazier this guy sounds. The effort he's putting in to keep you around and to try to manipulate you for sex is really very disturbing. I hope I'm readin him wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

Good luck though. I would HIGHLY recommend putting the sex away if you want to find out who he really is. I hope it's better than what I see.

[shadowplay]

Honestly this right here sounds like he's roundaboutly trying to tell you he wants to have an uncommitted (FWB) relationship with you. Maybe others that disagree with me can chime in, but this sounds like a vague and indirect attempt at that. When do you ever tell someone you have feelings for to guard their feelings unless you don't want them to fall for you? That makes things messy.

 

I get a sense you are just going to do what you're gonna do and that no amount of wrods will change that.

 

No one talks to someone about feelings in this way and then turns around and says, 'but I can't commit... I'm afraid." The feelings are there or they aren't. I may be alone, but the more I hear the sleazier this guy sounds. The effort he's putting in to keep you around and to try to manipulate you for sex is really very disturbing. I hope I'm readin him wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

Good luck though. I would HIGHLY recommend putting the sex away if you want to find out who he really is. I hope it's better than what I see.

 

No, your advice is really swaying me on this. I'm feeling more and more like I may need to break things off. I appreciate the help you're giving me.

 

Could you be more specific about him sounds sleazy to you? I've never gotten a sleazy vibe from him, but perhaps I'm just being naive. I do often feel like our relationship is mostly sexual. He gives me a ton in the way of physical affection...even in public to the point of sketchiness at times...but I rarely get any emotional affection from him. He also asks for a lot of sex when we see each other -- 3 times a day at least. To be fair, though, we do a lot more than have sex...he takes me on a "date" and to different events every day when we're together.

 

The reason I'd rather send him an email explaining all this is I clam up in person and over the phone. I find it nearly impossible to express what I'm feeling unless I write it out.

[shadowplay]

One random thing he once told me that I found mildly disturbing. He was talking about his ex gf and he said he found her annoying because she would corner him whenever he did something she didn't like and say "why didn't you call? am i just some girl to you?!" He did this impression of her with a Brooklyn accent, describing her as a loud New Yorker. He said that he felt bad but all he could do is laugh when she did that because she was such a stereotype.

I don't know...there's something that just struck me as a bit callous about that.

[Krytellan]

No, your advice is really swaying me on this. I'm feeling more and more like I may need to break things off. I appreciate the help you're giving me.

 

Could you be more specific about him sounds sleazy to you? I've never gotten a sleazy vibe from him, but perhaps I'm just being naive. I do often feel like our relationship is mostly sexual. He gives me a ton in the way of physical affection...even in public to the point of sketchiness at times...but I rarely get any emotional affection from him. He also asks for a lot of sex when we see each other -- 3 times a day at least. To be fair, though, we do a lot more than have sex...he takes me on a "date" and to different events every day when we're together.

 

The reason I'd rather send him an email explaining all this is I clam up in person and over the phone. I find it nearly impossible to express what I'm feeling unless I write it out.

 

Come on now, do you think even FWB situations can't involve dinner sometimes? The frequency of the sex makes me even firmer in my feelings about the matter.

 

What make shim sleazy? Well, I have to use my recent foray into the world of FWB to illustrate. When I am "seeing" someone that I don't really want more than a sexual relationship with, I avoid ALL talks of intimacy with that person. I don't talk about feelings or passions, I talk about likes and about behaviors (e.g, I have a lot of fun with you, not I feel great about being with you or whatever). I don't allude to love in these situations. Why? Well, first and foremost I think this form of a reltaionship should be mutual, and for me to throw any of those aspects into would do nothing but confuse the person I'm with. I also don't want the person falling for me because unreciprocated emotional attachment makes me uncomfortable. I've always had a hard time in situations in which someone liked me and I didn't feel the same. Also, out of respect for the other person.

 

Now this guy seems to be going the distance with his expression of feelings and passions to the exclusion of saying the "L" word. I say sleazy b/c anyone who can say these things to someone they only want a sexual relationship with is not playing fair, and in your situation, is down right cruel and deceitful. He is totally playing with your heart, and seems to have no reservations about it.

 

Do you see now why I say sleazy?

[shadowplay]

Ok, I see where you're coming from now. I'm sorry if I"m being a bit block-headed about this but it's really hard for me to see the situation objectively. The only thing is...what makes you think he's just interested in a sexual relationship? Is it the thing where he told me that I should "be careful", implying not to fall for him?

[Krytellan]

what makes you think he's just interested in a sexual relationship? Is it the thing where he told me that I should "be careful", implying not to fall for him?

 

That's exactly what I think, yes. No one tells somebody they want a relationship with to be careful. Could you ever imagine telling someone that?

[shadowplay]

Sometimes I stay in unhealthy relationships out of insecurity, because I'm hoping that if they don't like me enough at first maybe I can find some way of changing their mind. For example, if I were to leave him now I'd feel terrible about myself and have to accept the fact that I just wasn't good enough for him. But if I stayed on perhaps there's some hope I could make him change his mind, or so I tell myself. I'm so scared of feeling rejected and not good enough. I guess what I"m asking is...how I do I leave him without feeling a huge blow to my self esteem and interpreting the way he treated me as something wrong with me?

[Krytellan]

By you leaving him you take control of the situation and of your feelings. What's more powerful than that? He's the one that's going to be wishing you didn't leave. How is it bad for your self-esteem to leave him wanting more?

 

You need to decide what's acceptable... acceptance in the form of sex or emotional pain in the form of withheld love? When you finally you decide you don't need either of those things in your life, you'll make the right decision for yourself.

 

Take it from someone who committed in relationships at the drop of a hat until 32... there is SO much fun to be had out there. There is no excuse for someone to go through these kinds of situations if they don't want to. Someone leaves your life and someone enters, and it will always be that way. Ending a relationship does not doom you to loneliness.

[shadowplay]

I think you're right. Thanks again for your insight. I will send him an email and be totally blunt about my dissatisfaction. I'll let you guys know how things go from there.

[shadowplay]

I'm in the midst of writing that email, but curious to hear other opinions in the meantime. Anyone?

[Trialbyfire]

The only thing I'll say is that I find his text over-the-top. While you maybe all the above, the sincere ones rarely flatter and cover meaning/emotions in that flowery manner. I don't like his duck and weave.

[shadowplay]

I don't like his duck and weave.

 

What does this expression mean? I agree with you about his over-the-top writing. All of his emails are flowery/formal like that. Here's a more recent email he sent me three weeks ago after we spent some time in NY together:

I may as well confess that over the last few days I've had several "is this really happening" moments. Many moons have passed since a person loathes and loves as I do. It seems that we operate on the same wavelength and have found ourselves in similar boats, both in terms of college and world-view. I found it especially pleasing to wake up next to you, and I enjoyed having visions of you drift back and forth between the conscious and unconscious. The surplus of tender kisses also echoes through my memory. I enjoy our pastime of kissing at red-lights. I suspect that if New Yorkers became accustomed to the tradition the "Don't Honk $350 Fine" signs would become unnecessary. But for now, the pastime is ours to have, theirs to covet.

 

He's a sweet-talker for sure.

 

And then a week ago after he visited

This weekend has been surreally swell thanks to your company.there is something really powerful about lying naked outside with such a beautiful like minded soul.

 

 

It irritates me that he'll be so effusive online, but not verbally affectionate in person. Do the rest of you guys get a sleazy vibe from him?

[shadowplay]

Also wanted to add that he comes from a really messed up family. His mother is bipolar and would periodically go crazy when he was little which has given him a lot of emotional scars and problems trusting people. He said he was totally neglected as a child. I met his mother and she is indeed crazy.

[BlueEyedGirl]

I wouldn't be breaking this off just yet. From the way you describe yourself and how you come across in your posts, I think that you would feel deeply insecure in ANY relationship. It's not a reflection on how bad a relationship is. We all very rarely get a chance to have a shot at a relationship with someone we truly like (I assume that you are not one of those people that fall for just anyone). I think that he is not after FWB's arrangement, he is going through too much effort for that, unless he is the most devious man on the planet. His feelings have probably not crystalized yet, but he is certanly on the right track. If you hang in there for few more months, the answer will most likely become clear to you. If you break things off now, you will come off as someone who is freaking out and overacting, and you will most likely lose him forever. You will also have to live with regrets and "what ifs..". Just hang in there and let things run its course whatever that might be. If you do email him, try not to sound TOO dramatic, you will only push him further away.