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Am I totally insane?


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Posted

When you discuss important decisions, how does the discussion go? Paraphrase one discussion, for example, how much money to put away for the retirement vs college.

 

Also, when the two of you get into a fight, do either one of you raise your voices?

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Posted

When we discuss important decisions, she usually comes to me with all her facts laid out pretty logically. And if it makes sense, I'll tell her to just go ahead and do it (why re-invent the wheel, or re-do the work if she's done it). If it's something I disagree with, I'll usually tell her why or tell her I need more time to come up with an alternative to consider. I think we're both pretty logical. Maybe.

 

Likewise, I (also) like to have all my ducks in a row before discussing something with her. So (I think) over the years we've both learned to avoid confrontation by not getting into something, until all the details have been worked out. Is that what you are driving at?

 

When we were first married, we argued terribly sometimes. She wanted things one way, I wanted things differently. We've grown to become very agreeable on most things. I used to raise my voice often (especially before I stopped drinking). Until I saw my kids do the same thing, and realized they were learning from me. She would also raise her voice, but only rarely, not until she was completely frustrated.

 

I'm at the point where I don't want to rock the boat anymore. If she wants to do something/buy something, etc I'm not going to disagree or stop her.

Posted

This is going to sound very cruel: My home life has become another place of business...bring home the money so bills can be paid. Run errands, pick up, drop off, clean.

I guess that makes your 4 kids, what....corporate assets? Liabilities?

 

Marriage is a package deal. You're not only cheating on your wife, you're cheating on your family by investing love, affection and emotional energy that should go to them in your OW.

 

I second the good advice you were given here - print out your first post, give it to your wife and work on it from there. You may feel that you no longer owe her committment, love or affection but, after 20 years and 4 kids, she's at least owed the truth...

 

Mr. Lucky

Posted

As I'm reading through this whole thing, I'm uncertain why you have all this accumulated resentment against your wife. Keep in mind that not only did she raise your children, she also took care of the household/child related finances, all your domestic needs and stayed with you through your drinking.

 

Talk to your wife again. I agree with the other members that she will be more open to MC, if she knows about your affairs.

Posted

well lets narrow this down a tad.your wife is a self-centered cow with no regard for her hubby.she takes no pride in physical appearance and disregards all of her husband's concerns. and then she'll wonder why he cheats a few years down the road crying and sulking looking for pity claiming hubby to be villain. if you cant satisfy a man (which is a very easy job considering all of the crap he's done for you for years), for crying out loud, dont get married.

Posted
well lets narrow this down a tad.your wife is a self-centered cow with no regard for her hubby.she takes no pride in physical appearance and disregards all of her husband's concerns. and then she'll wonder why he cheats a few years down the road crying and sulking looking for pity claiming hubby to be villain. if you cant satisfy a man (which is a very easy job considering all of the crap he's done for you for years), for crying out loud, dont get married.

 

We both really let ourselves go too, both gained weight and basically floundered. Depressing.

You might want to read what the OP has posted. Apparently, they're a matched pair...

Posted

"Additionally, I've lost a LOT of weight, and business is really picking up."so there is currently one cow in the relationship who hides underneath covers when a problem arises. i think i see who the problem is here.

Posted

The weight loss only happened after he started the affair. Funny that, isn't it?

 

But anyways...more importantly, since physicality is the least of the OPs worries...when he's got four teenagers and a marriage gone south, to be concerned about...

Posted
I'm at the point where I don't want to rock the boat anymore. If she wants to do something/buy something, etc I'm not going to disagree or stop her.

 

why does this not surprise me?her matters are addressed and agreed upon by you, but your serious matters are stuck in limbo because she runs to the bedroom for cover (literally). um, so she gets what she wants and you are stuck with dirt. if i were you, i would not feel guilty whatsoever. you tried to discuss the issue and she has countlessly passed over it. since she is this passive and unconfrontational, it would also not surprise me if she was one of those people who would think "if an affair happens, i dont want to know about it". spare her the pain and just continue what you're doing if it keeps you in the relationship until the kids are in college and slowly come to terms with the reality that you both are no longer in love.

Posted
The weight loss only happened after he started the affair. Funny that, isn't it?

 

But anyways...more importantly, since physicality is the least of the OPs worries...when he's got four teenagers and a marriage gone south, to be concerned about...

 

yes it is. but then, it doesn't seem like his wife has any standards, so why would he lose weight for her. what woman would accept the type of relationship they are in? lets get serious. it's not even a real relationship anymore. they are just like two people working at a daycare.

Posted
yes it is. but then, it doesn't seem like his wife has any standards, so why would he lose weight for her. what woman would accept the type of relationship they are in? lets get serious. it's not even a real relationship anymore. they are just like two people working at a daycare.

I think you need to look at both sides of this. Is she the one dragging in a third party to their marriage? Is she the one lying and cheating? Did she go out and get herself a lover that she needed to lose weight for? Tell me what she's done that he hasn't already done and more?

Posted

she's complacent and doesn't think that marriage requires any work on her part to keep it together. if anyone was being rejected in regards to affection and sex for years, we really don't know when we might SLIP and take up another offer when it pops up. apparently he felt he would eventually be able to piece this pos marriage back together but this other woman came into his life unexpectedly. best thing he can do now is tell his wife and get a divorce. although his wife might be needy and just accept it. we really dont know her character but he cant go on living a double life forever because he is devaluing his own character and self-respect. the point is that i can see how he got wrapped up in this mess, but now it's time for him to stand up and accept the dire straits of the marriage and heave ho. he probably is too cowardly at this stage to do this though because it would make him look like the "bad guy" in societial and familial situations. not the first time i've seen a mother-in-law give their son-in-law a good azz whoopin. usually that is the case when men talk about their "obligations". but men still have all of those same obligations with their children whether they are married or divorced. just because you divorce your wife doesn't mean you have to divorce your children too.

Posted

And I've told her things like "I'm not sure if I'm IN love with you." Jeez, I know that's so hurtful. She gets very upset and usually runs off and cries in the bedroom when these conversations begin, so they don't last long, and they never reach a conclusion, either.

 

17 years, four children, a spate of drunkenness and at the end of the day, he tells her he's no longer in love with her. Yup, she deserves the heave-ho, because she didn't have an affair and had to lose weight for her lover...

 

As for him asking for a divorce, I agree with it, as long as they have equal joint custody of the kids or she gets everything, with him paying support and alimony.

Posted
17 years, four children, a spate of drunkenness and at the end of the day, he tells her he's no longer in love with her. Yup, she deserves the heave-ho, because she didn't have an affair and had to lose weight for her lover...

 

quote]

 

um, why are you so focused on her weight issue as if it is the only issue? do you have weight problems yourself or something? because i sense some insecurity there. that is one of many of the problems i've already stated that you choose to ignore. this ongoing marital issue has been ignored once too often with no care on her part. im afraid there is no other alternative other than divorce if current conditions remain.

As for him asking for a divorce, I agree with it, as long as they have equal joint custody of the kids or she gets everything, with him paying support and alimony.
lol. that's all nice warm and fuzzy, but im sure the judge will care less about your stipulations.

 

 

in your mind, only one person - the big bad cheater - breaks down a marriage. it takes two and what she has done i believe is actually much worse than his cheating. constant rejection and no affection by a spouse without trying on any count to repair or keep the marriage intact. she destroyed the marriage imo. the man has been nothing but a doormat. it's all subject to perception.

Posted
um, why are you so focused on her weight issue as if it is the only issue? do you have weight problems yourself or something? because i sense some insecurity there. that is one of many of the problems i've already stated that you choose to ignore. this ongoing marital issue has been ignored once too often with no care on her part. im afraid there is no other alternative other than divorce if current conditions remain.

It appeared to be your main focus so I was working with it...

 

As for me having a weight problem...nope...not even close. Not now or in the past. Between genetics, healthy eating and assorted physical activities, not an issue at all.

 

As for the problem being ignored, it's why most of the members are suggesting that he provide his wife with the full picture, affair included, and an opportunity of counseling, therefore reconciliation.

Posted
in your mind, only one person - the big bad cheater - breaks down a marriage. it takes two and what she has done i believe is actually much worse than his cheating. constant rejection and no affection by a spouse without trying on any count to repair or keep the marriage intact. she destroyed the marriage imo. the man has been nothing but a doormat. it's all subject to perception.

If you look back on his post, she wasn't the only person doing the rejecting. They were both exhausted.

Posted
17 years, four children, a spate of drunkenness and at the end of the day, he tells her he's no longer in love with her. Yup, she deserves the heave-ho, because she didn't have an affair and had to lose weight for her lover...

 

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to clarify, i never said she "deserved" anything. but divorce at this point is the right thing to do unless you feel she deserves to be cheated on without her knowledge continuously for the next decade. i hope she takes some responsibility for her lack of action but i doubt it. people are not robots but i guess some women wish their men were. stepford husbands are for emotionless women who think life should exclude sex and any type of intimacy.

Posted

The bottom line here is that LW doesn't love his wife anymore, not the way a husband should. They haven't even had sex for more than 2 years. This marriage is dead and he doesn't want to be in it anymore. It doesn't matter whose fault it is anymore. No amount of brow beating him is going to change that. He has a right to leave and find happiness in his life else where.

 

Sometimes marriages end. It happens every day. No one should be forced to stay out of guilt. If the marriage is dead it needs to end, for eveyone's sake.

Posted
If you look back on his post, she wasn't the only person doing the rejecting. They were both exhausted.

 

I think its clear from his post he wanted to work on it but she didn't see it as a problem.

 

Lack of sex in a marriage will kill a relationship faster than anything.

Posted
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to clarify, i never said she "deserved" anything. but divorce at this point is the right thing to do unless you feel she deserves to be cheated on without her knowledge continuously for the next decade. i hope she takes some responsibility for her lack of action but i doubt it. people are not robots but i guess some women wish their men were. stepford husbands are for emotionless women who think life should exclude sex and any type of intimacy.

 

well lets narrow this down a tad.your wife is a self-centered cow with no regard for her hubby.she takes no pride in physical appearance and disregards all of her husband's concerns. and then she'll wonder why he cheats a few years down the road crying and sulking looking for pity claiming hubby to be villain. if you cant satisfy a man (which is a very easy job considering all of the crap he's done for you for years), for crying out loud, dont get married.

 

Here you go corky. Sounds like you feel she deserves poor treatment.

Posted

Well Long Winded, once I was able to sift through all the morality job being offered here in the way of advice, I can only conclude that the big picture has surpassed any form of morality issue you may be hit with (rightly so) I am sure you have dealt with the moral aspects of what is driving you to contemplate the decission you are about to face. What you are now faced with is a much harsher reality that shadows over morality.

 

Personally after having read everything you have stated here the situation seems clear. Your needs are no longer being met, on either parts, never mind all the emotional needs that are not being met on both parts, you have the physycal needs as well. And yet gaining a lot of weght, disregarding your outward appearance, not having proper higiene and having excuses to not engange in sexual relations within a marriage are very much needs that are part and parcel for the the whole deal to thrive in a healthy manner. It is a deal, marriage is a deal indeed. I don't see how you could try to repair this, you are unwilling to work at something that no matter how hard you were to try your counter part is incapable of filling the understandable needs that you require to feel a certain level of happiness within your relationship.

 

I don't see why you are contemplating this any more, you need to sit your W down and tell her you want to move on. I would not tell her about the OW there is no need for her to get hurt like that given that you will go on to make your own life anyway regardless of this OW. And I can caution you that some BSs that have gone through the D processwill prob urge you to tell your W. Don't, it's a ploy to have your W take you to the cleaners (if you are outside Canada here infidelity does not affect a D)

You are clearly don't love your W anymore and you have not been for a very long time, don't think about it anymore. Think that no matter what awaits you outside, ie EVEN if things with the OW never pan out the way you want them to, your emotional health is far more important than an agreement you made that was on a good track at some point but it has lost it's way beyond recovery now.

 

Your children will always be your children and you must ensure to NEVER leave their site or to relinquish your duties as their father in EVERY way not just financially they need you emotionally as well they need the father presence more than ever after a D. Yes they may hate you at first for destroying the family unit, not knowing your wife I am not sure if she is the type who would pit them against you for her own pain and suffering, but someday when they are old enough to understand that two people cannot have a healthy tie if they don't commit to what GIVING LOVE entails,they will understand that you are better off apart than together.

 

I hope you have been honest in your claims here, because you would only be cheating yourself if you were not. You have a long road ahead of you of many changes if you do decide to make the leap, but long roads of hardship always end in growth and a better place. You owe yourself that, and you owe it to your W even if she does not understand why you are doing that today. I also hope you are not exaggerating your views simply because you are in love with someone else. To me it does not look that way, but sometimes appearances can be fake.

 

I think the question you ask re. grass is greener is something you need to figure out on your own, you don't need us telling you that. If you are certain that everything that has lead you to this point is as it is, this should not be a mid life crisis this must be a real turning point, and really only YOU can determine that. Ask youreself would you do this if the OW were not in the picture?

Posted
So (I think) over the years we've both learned to avoid confrontation by not getting into something, until all the details have been worked out.

 

Lovely. Not one, but count 'em... TWO conflict avoiders. :eek:

No wonder you weren't communicating properly or having sexual relations at regular intervals.

 

Listen... there are probably quite a few things going on here. First off... I think you already know that you bear some responsibility for tolerating the lack of emotional and sexual intimacy in your marriage for 18 years. Even though you and your wife might have discussed it, argued over it, or whatever... in the end, you put up with it. You shouldn't have. You should have left her before you became a monk within the confines of your own marriage.

 

I'll be honest... no matter HOW much my husband and I argued in the past over sex, no matter WHAT my misunderstandings on the subject, (and there were many :o )... we've never gone longer than 3 weeks that I wasn't either giving birth or sick enough to be hospitalized. He'd have NEVER tolerated it. He'd have walked first. He didn't get married to become celibate.

 

So, that's on you. You should have bitched, moaned, groaned, seen an attorney, and checked into the Motel 6 before you consented to being emasculated within your own marriage. You're not a neutered cat. Don't put that off on her if YOU didn't stand your ground.

 

Another factor could be your age. You've been married 18 years... you're old enough for midlife changes. These changes, I've become convinced, are largely physiological in nature, affecting the neurotransmitters and most particularly seratonin levels. Often, mild to moderate depression can result, which can color a person's outlook and leave a man open to a subconscious search for the dopamine band-aid. Hence the little red sports cars and extramarital affairs which have become such a cliche in our society.

 

And we've already discussed the effects of Infatuation. I think if you're honest with yourself, you already KNOW that "infatuation" is playing quite a role here.

 

Now, you've come here to LS... and posted to the Infidelity section. What that tells me is that you're not quite as sure of yourself as you THINK you are. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here looking for answers.

 

If you REALLY want to know... 'yes', it's completely possible to revitalize a marriage of 20 years or more. I know. My husband and I are enjoying a completely reconciled marriage today of 25 years. :love:

 

You lived with this woman for eighteen years. And it's not until you've involved yourself with someone else that your marriage has suddenly become intolerable. What does that tell you? :confused:

 

What it ought to be telling you is that the EMR has been your impetus to leave the marriage... and that THAT is not a good enough reason. You leave a marriage when it's no longer viable, and after you've EARNED your way out.

 

Your kids are NOT going to buy into the whole "we just met" scam, you know. Your wife isn't going to buy it either. It wouldn't take TEN MINUTES on a site like this one before somebody straightened her out. So, the "grand plan" isn't going to work anyway. You're busted any way you slice it.

 

Why not roll the dice? At the worst, you end up divorced... which is, afterall, your intended goal. Check some divorce sites. Sites like divorcenet.com can give you information state by state. These days, a guy can practically f*ck his mistress right on the kitchen table right there in front of his wife, and in most states she can't even put him out of the house. :rolleyes:

You might not have as much to lose in 'telling the truth' as you think you do.

Posted

Deliberating, going back and forth, paralazing yourself from your own doubts that are created when you reach out so much and when you leave YOUR decision in other people's hands is just going to suck the life out of you. And what will happen next is the thoughts of what to do will consume every part of your being only to reach a point that you will want it all to go away, so much so that what you will want to do is opt to stay in an unfulfilling marriage with someone you no longer long for or even love and have no certainty you can even give what they deserce in order to to love again, only to get away from having to decide and to unbruden yourself from this overwhelming process.

 

It's not an easy decision to make but I can tell you it is one that if you listen to everyone BUT yourself on will be dragged out for a long time to come making it very difficult for everyone involved. And eventually the truth will come out. By everyone involved I mean your W, your kids and youself. As far as I see it the OW is not part of your deciding equation, as you assured her this happens independent of having met her, you should face it in such way that she truly HAS no bearings on your decision. T'hat's being honest with yourself and with your W.

 

You have two choices, act on what you know today, or wait around for the a messy situation to become messy beyond repair. You should read MAttym's thread called My Wife found Out. That can give you some insight into what is happening to you, and how it affects many the same way.

Mind you your situation is very different because you seem conviced you no longer want your marriage and you seem determined to want to move on. I don't understand why people are not listening to what you are saying...you don't seem on the fence because you love two women you seem on the fence because of guilt. Guilt can trap you in a situation that will harm you and the people you are involved with for a long time to come. Guilt is parlazing and no good can come of it. It's wasted energy.

 

So you decide to stay out of guilt, because it is morally right then what?

Can you fix your marriage, can you give what you must and open your heart and mind and give 100% what you must to repair the damage that is done? If you have one hair in your body that feels this way I agree, give it a shot otherwise the decision to stay seems futile. It may be the right thing to do, in the eyes of society, but is it the right thing to do for you and your W?

 

you brough up craziness, craziness is to let guilt rule your life.

 

If your family finds out about the other rel. down the line and after you are D, you deal with that when the time comes, otherwise don't let yourself be scared into how you will justify it, after the D is done it won't matter any more it will be your life and it won't matter that you have moved on. The same amount of pain will happen even if you had met your new partner after the D happens, it is always a hard pill to swallow. I don't see the point of introducing that notion unless you want to save your marriage.

 

This this is NOT about what you have with the OW, it is about what you don't and possibly won't have in your marriage.

If you can sperate the two, that is half your battle won right there.

 

And I only say all this in such an extreme slanted way because you sound like you have reached a point of no return you sound repelled by your W and what is the point of leading her on if you truly feel this way? It is not fair to her, and you would do her no good by enabelling her through staying with her out of pitty.

Posted
I think its clear from his post he wanted to work on it but she didn't see it as a problem.

 

Lack of sex in a marriage will kill a relationship faster than anything.

Did you also notice that he minimalized his alcoholism for the first 7 or so years of their marriage? It's no small thing to live with an alcoholic, depending on how functional they are.

Posted
And I can caution you that some BSs that have gone through the D processwill prob urge you to tell your W. Don't, it's a ploy to have your W take you to the cleaners (if you are outside Canada here infidelity does not affect a D)

How do you care about someone enough to marry and share 4 kids with them and then f*&k them over like that? One of two things is true - either your conduct with the OW is wrong and should be stopped (and work on your marriage should be started) OR it's justified and should stand the light of day. Again, the ONLY thing your wife is owed (and maybe deserves, based on some of the things you've posted) is the truth.

 

Mr. Lucky

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