How do you forgive, if he never admits it?

[cj1988]

You all know me by now, if not look at my posts. The problem I am having now is getting past something and trying to forgive my H when I still have so many unanswered questions. In a nut shell, he still claims he is innocent of my accusations and I am definitely NOT allowed to bring it up and act as if I believe he was unfaithful. How can you forgive someone when they do not act as if they ever did anything and is not remorseful at all?

 

I feel like I am betraying him for not being able to believe him and get past it all and I am betraying myself for listening to what might be a sack of lies because HE CAN NEVER CONFESS. My story is different, if you know mine by now. But, even if he cannot confess, you would think he would act as if he feels bad.....is it all a cover or was I wrong?

 

I want my marriage to work, but it is hard if he did do something, in my heart he is no longer mine anymore and that is what tears me up inside.

 

MEN, if you did something (affair) wife cannot prove it, but YOU know you did, you love your W and want it work, how would act? A little remorseful? Or would you still claim you have never touched, kissed or slept with anyone ever and tell your W you can sleep at night knowing that? How if you are guilty? Is it all lies? Remember I have a tape, STAMAX in the trick, cell phone bills with calls all day long for months and caught them under the dock TALKING at 2AM.......read my other posts if necessary I want to get past this one way or another, I am doing a lot better, but know that last step one way or another is right around the corner......GUILTY MEN please be honest and tell me what you think....

[Krytellan]

Well, as far as I can tell, you have no proof that he has slept with anyone. His lying might be the truth, but just not what you want to believe.

[cj1988]

Wow, only one answer here.....I guess you all are tired of my whinning, sorry....cant talk to him, thought poeple that have been on both sides could help....to all that have answered this one and others, thank you very much.....you all are great and I hope everyone finds happiness somewhere !

[whichwayisup]

Because you don't know for sure yet all that know does point to 'something' happening between him and his 1/2 sister. Whatever happened was inappropriate, and they're not seeing or talking to eachother because of it. Let's assume they fooled around....Or at best, touched and kissed abit. Either way, you KNOW it was an emotional thing, they got TOO attached to eachother and it was unhealthy.

 

All you can do now is focus on what he does and says NOW, pay attention to the efforts he's making to show you he loves you and wants to gain your trust again.

 

I still suggest marriage counselling...Also, you'd benefit from going to individual counselling to help you cope better as well.

[Lizzie60]

Remember I have a tape, STAMAX in the trick, cell phone bills with calls all day long for months and caught them under the dock TALKING at 2AM.......

 

Why the need for more proofs..you already got them?

 

You just want him to admit to his cheating.. well this is not going to happen.

 

So, if you want your M to work.. you HAVE to move on... otherwise you will always be miserable.. because HE WILL never admit to his cheating... trust me on that one...

 

I've heard many stories about this... One MM got caught by his wife (she got all our emails).. he called me so I would NEVER say we had sex..cause he told her nothing happened between us... she never called.. They went on MC...

 

You have a choice here.

[prfrogkisser]

Wow I havent been at this site for a long time so forgive me if im a little bit rusty.

Based on what i read you are upset because he wont admit he did something wrong and your heart tells you he did. Until he admits you are right on your suspicions you wont rest or give it up. Once you loose trust you loose everything. People sometimes dont realize how hard it is to start all over again once the trust is gone and dobts, recentment, disapointment is now occupying your heart and mind. Words of advice and concern wont be enough for you at this time. You are looking for an answer when deep inside you know which one it is. You just need his validation so you can decide. I know there is still a part of you that wishes that this wouldnt bother you but we are women; full emotional beings and these important things affect us and our life.

 

My suggestion will be based on my experience. My ex never admitted he cheated. I decided I needed to make the change it all. I had two choices to suck it up and go on with my life with him or let him go because I was hurting inside and the pain was unbearable. No matter what, you are the only one who knows what is best for you. You cant continue to torture yourself or the people around you. Spend some time meditating and thinking about what will be the best for you right now. Its gonna be tough no matter what you decide but you should be your priority:D.

[cj1988]

I have been going to counseling for months now. Yes, I do know that this is NOT about me, I just hate NOT knowing.

 

According to my therapist he has family issues and thought she was the one that could solve them all. You are right, they got too close and not growing up in the same house, they may not have seen each other as siblings....that does not excuse the behavior.

 

My problem is that I have been lavishing him for months with love, sex and attention and when I get my feelings hurt or a little inpatient with his response or attention to me, HE tells me that I should not expect everything to be JUST PEACHY again so quickly after what I DID (the accusation) and that I act as if everything I DID is just washed away now and we are just happy happy happy! Now you see why I am upset???? He has not once acted as if he was or is guilty and I was the BAD guy when I accused them of bad behavior......So, the man I have known for 12 years would never cheat, but my GUT tells me different......my therapist said the GUT is not always a good thing to rely on....I do not know what to believe.

[ookla_2]

cj - he is turning this around on you, and that is not right and it is not fair.

 

If you choose to stay with him, you may have to figure out how to forgive him without ever getting a confession. Some people never own up to what they did. For some people, it's just almost impossible to admit. I think, given who the other person is in this equation, that's probably what's going to happen here. If something did happen, he wouldn't allow himself to admit it to you....what if you left him for it? And not only left him, but in your anger, told EVERYONE why you left him? He would be mortified to know that people know that about him. I'm sure these are all thoughts he is having.

 

However...he has admitted that some of their behavior was inappropriate, yes? So, all he has to stand on is that you accused him of taking it even a step further...and that's not really anything to hold over your head.

 

Stand up for yourself, girl! You didn't do anything wrong, other than voice your concern!! He is not considering you at all...and he needs to start!!!

[whichwayisup]

Is he in therapy? If not, ENCOURAGE him to go because his issues, his past need to be dealt with so you two can live a healthy life together. Maybe some therapy will help HIM understand why he allowed himself to become unhealthily (is that a word? lol) attached to his 1/2 sister. Something is still 'off' about your husband and until he fixes himself, your marriage IS going to be rocky. All the sex, affection and spending time together isn't going to solve that unless HE deals with what's going on inside him.

[cj1988]

I know it is going to eat me alive if I do not get a hold on this. It just seems as if her were guilty in some way he would be more attentive to me now in more ways than he is now. You know what I mean? If I were in his shoes I probably could not admit it either, they will loose everything, spouse, kids, other siblings and maybe the parents.

 

That is why is whY I am confused. If I were him again and I was innocent I would be mad and shocked and resent him too......but if I were guilty I woudl try everything in my power to make it up to him. I would NOT still call her and give it my all. He just keeps saying, calm down relax and let us happen, what you did to me and the hurt I feel does not go away just because you are ready to make it work NOW. He said you told my OWN MOTHER I was screwing my sister, how far can you go and I am expected to just say "Ok baby, I love you and it is all hunky dory"? He cried a lot and said you paid attention to me and knew me as well as I do you and have you for the last 12 years this would have never happened because you would KNOW me and that I do not cheat !

 

I said, I thought I did know you and then heard the tape, he said "IT IS MY SISTER and I love her, you never heard me telling her I could not wait to screw her, touch her, kiss her etc.....you heard 2 poeple that love each other and have a deep sibling connection....no more than that, you are not going to make what you heard perverted period. So, you see, he has never been a girl watcher or a flirt, he has been all about ME all this time. But, he has never talked to another woman that way but me either....I hate all this and wished I could sleep or make it throug one day without all this doubt and questions !

[cj1988]

He was such an A** last night....I was on my way home and a little late so he calls me and asks where I was....I told him I was going to be a little late that morning, he did not listen. Then when I got there I went to kiss him, he turned his head and said you smell funny (meaning he was checking to see if I had beer on my breath) I said what is wrong with you, he said it takes you 2 hours to get home etc....I went to bed he came to bed an hour later i was being sweet, he was still an A**, I said look I have had a bad day. He told he came in there to watch TV, you could have talked to me earlier...being a **** ! I said the doc called with crapy news, I started and the meds are giving me the craps ! He then realized I was NOT with someone and was a bit nicer to me.....what a crock of crap. He was real jealous before her (has been for years) but for the few months they were talking a lot, he was not jealous at all, for the first time. He did not care where I was going with my friends (not normal) he said why worry, if you are going to do something me worrying will not stop it....well now that we are better, he is back to his jealous stages again.....what the h--- is going with him !

[bish]

In answer to your question, how do you forgive if he never admits it...the answer is.....you don't.

 

Even if he admits it, you will never trust him again. You might start trusting him a little...maybe 90%...who knows.

 

But once someone has cheated, they don't deserve your trust. They deserve to be dumped.

[cj1988]

I know and that is what I am afraid of....I do love him, but the unknown is killing me and he does not want to talk about it at all. If we do it becomes heated and he gets upset and tells me that I have unresolved issues and insecurities and if I do not get them fixed we will not make it. He said you have thought for years off and on I was doing something and I was not. We split up (we not married, but lived together 8 years, he left) and a month later you were screwing someone NOT ME. He said I will not live with all your investgations the rest my life, I have been living it for years.

 

I have never cheated, you have and you are NOT going to TRY and make something that was not true because you have done it to me. He said I can sleep at night knowing I have been true to you for almost 13 years, you cannot !

 

So, you see, it is a losing battle with me. He will never admit it and even if I am wrong, I still feel something was there between him and the new found 1/2 sister. He was obessesed with calling her and being around the same way he was me. She was perfect and could do no wrong. He convinced her I was jealous and insecure and he has been through hell and back because if that, she fell for it.

 

Then recently he got drunk she saw the side I have been telling her about (the ugly talking side) and he saw he SWINGER side and they have not talked much since. Weird, yes? They talked everyday since June 6th of last year and in the last 3 weeks he has called her once and she has called him 2 time. They have talked less in 3 times than they use to in 1 morning......either the newness of the NEW family is wearing off of it was a lie and both realize that it was all a BIG mistake and now have to clean up their lives. BUT the only one paying a price is ME. They are not in trouble, her husband does not know any of it, except I have a tape, does not know what is on it. I am not allowed to let him hear it, he said I am not going to bring his family into my mess......they lives are just fine, mine is a f---- wreck !

[whichwayisup]

He will never admit it and even if I am wrong, I still feel something was there between him and the new found 1/2 sister. He was obessesed with calling her and being around the same way he was me. She was perfect and could do no wrong. He convinced her I was jealous and insecure and he has been through hell and back because if that, she fell for it.

 

Okay, with that being said, let's assume the worst case senario...They had sex. Either way, he has lied to you about it, downplayed it. You know it, they know it and we all know it through what you've said in your posts. Now, it's up to you to decide if you want to trust him, want to work through this with him...BUT, if he is unwilling to do HIS part in this to make things better, there's not alot more you can do except figure out if you want to stay with him.

 

If your H talks to her without you knowing, or tries to see her again, THEN go to his 1/2 sis's husband let him know what has been going on.

[cj1988]

Hello Whichway....I know I must decide and I am trying as hard as I can without convivting what maybe an innocent man. regardless of what happened between them, that is not the issue at hand. The issue is how is treating me now.

 

The husand of the sister knows about the tape, but has not heard it. My H told me if I ever play it for him and mess with his new family we are through. Then again he has told me PLAY it for him I do not care, but he would, trust me. Her H is a cheater as well, so he does not care of does not want to know because he sucks too ! He would sleep with me in a heart beat and has admitted to me he slept with my sister last year (long story, and his wife knows) it is all messed up.

 

My head tells me it will never work, he has betrayed me in the worst way (with a freakin family member) and my heart tells me the man I have known and loved all these years could and would not do that ...I have copied an e-mail (just one of many from the sister) that she sent to me after the night I found them UNDER the floating dock "Talking" This is why I am so confused........ tell me what you see !

 

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Well our idea of drunk and his idea are probably two different things! It's like I told you on Monday he is thinking of this whole gap between you as some form of rejection from you. He cannot understand that it has nothing to do with him (Kind of like you telling me my husbands problem is not my fault!) I know in my head that I have no control over his moods but in my heart I still feel like maybe it's my fault some how. Your husband is exactly the same way with this, in his head he knows that you love him desperately in his heart he worries that the reason you don't want to be intimate as much as him is somehow because he is deficient in some way or another. I knew it was going south when the subject came up but I just acted like I didn't know. I think the emotions came on because #1 he was drinking, #2 that's the real emotion when he thinks of it, not anger like he normally shows when he brings it up to you, but hurt. I don't even think at this point that he is angry with what happened between you and the other guy when you were apart...I think the real seed of the whole thing is his belief that you don't want him! I know that is hard for you to understand, but as hard as it is for you to understand that is how hard it is for him. I would give anything if I could wave a magic wand and make the two of you meet in the middle! I can tell you from talking to both of you that you both adore the other! Both of ya'll are hard headed! I keep telling him over and over again, it has nothing to do with this fellow from the past!! His question over and over again was why doesn't she want me that way? I tried to explain to him that women for the most part are different than men in their thinking. I basically talked my self in circles and then just let him get it out! I know ya'll have your little nit picky problems but other than that this is the only thing I see that keeps you from being perfect! Have you ever listened to the conversations at the lake, you know just kind of sit back and listen to the people talking? Every other word out of his mouth is YOU and it's a good thing, like : When she (you) or my baby and I were or she knows so and so. Really you ought to try listening sometime. I don't think your mind can comprehend how he really feels about you! I'm sorry it took me so long to write back I'm writing in between working.[/COLOR][/sIZE][/FONT]

[Mustang Sally]

To me, a necessary ingredient for forgiveness is that the offending person repents. And agrees to go forward and "sin no more."

 

Simple, yes, but that is how I see it.

 

Even if nothing really did happen between those two, he has hurt you, and for you to truly be able forgive the hurt, he must be sorry for the hurt he has caused you.

 

If spouses can't do this sort of thing for each other (repent and forgive), no matter whether it is over "I left your car with the fuel tank on empty" or "I cheated on you with my half sister," then there are going to be major problems in the relationship.

[ookla_2]

I agree with Sally. The issue at this point is not even whether or not anything happened, but the horrible way he is treating you NOW. His actions are not those of a man who wants to reassure his wife that he loves her. His actions are extremely defensive and malicious. And for him to continually bring up the past - the time that you were with another man while the two of you were BROKEN UP, then that is just fighting dirty. No wonder you don't stand up to him more.

[cj1988]

I use to be a stronger person and I am working my way back. I let him break me down with the guilt trip he throws at my feet and everyone elses feet and has for years.

 

I know it hurt him that I was with someone else, but he had 8 womens numbers in his truck when got back together ( he a good looking man ) and FINALLY admitted recently that he did call one of them one time and that was it. He had to admit that because I saw her recently and she told me, he denied it for a long time, just like he denied screwing a fat girl before me a long time ago after she told me, he said he was embarassed and did not want me to know.

 

So, why would I belive him now? This would be the MOST humilating thing he could ever possibly admit to me and the FAMILY. If it ever comes out and I think it will one day, they are doomed in so many ways. They loose everything and more.

 

He has stopeed calling her in the last 3 weeks and I guess that could be a posistive thing or a conformation they are not as close as they claim to be as siblings, who knows.

 

I plan on talking to him today about a lot of issues. I told him I look forward to seeing him everyday, but when someone wants to drink they come before me. If I am going to put 100% into him, then I expect the same and if he can't, it is over I am done. I have been second too long, it is all or nothing....I am not afraid to alone, I am afraid of being alone with him anymore.

 

I am an attractive 40 year old, good job and walked with my head high for a long time, that is what he liked about me I was confident. I am now getting that back and when I do, wacth out world, it is play time. My son is about to leave for college and my life awaits

[stace779]

My Fiance just recently had a 3 day bachelor party over Labor Day Weekend. He went to SC b/c his brother owns a bar there and all of his friends flew in ( They are all mostly single). His brother made all of the arrangments. I had serious anxiety about the whole thing. I konw everyone says that "if you trust eachother then there shouldn't be an issue" and he's never given me a reason not to trust him but I have seen him drunk and I was really freaked out!

 

He has told me that he doesn't like strip clubs or strippers (he's too cheap to give them any money) but I also know that when you are drinking, and when the stripper is being paid fory you lot's things that you "might not normally do" are not so bothersome when you are drunk. I have seen my finace drunk and I have seen him belligerent and it's not pretty. I guess you can say that I don't trust him when he is drunk.

 

Maybe I have seen too many movies or I have too active of an imagination either way I worried all weekend about what he was doing. I think part of the problem is that every guy I have talked to about this makes me feel even worse. They all get that distant look in their eyes with a crooked smile like they are thinking back on bachelor parties of the past and they all have said that if not the groom at least someone ends up sleeping with a stripper!!

 

Is it just a rule at these stupid parties that men have to egg eachother on and get really wasted and encourage eachother to do stupid things that they might regret?!?!

 

Ok, he goes to his party and he is extremely hung over when he's coming home. I asked if he had a stripper and he said yes, that she took her clothes off, danced around, and not much more. He said she did not take her bottoms off. . .

 

Then, I check his email ( only because something in my gut was telling me too, and I felt like I had to follow my gut, and that is the only reason ) Guess what I find... an email from his friends (actually it was a reply) his email to them was nowhere to be found. His email to them said [FONT=Arial]By the way, I told her some about the[/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]stripper, [/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]but I told her that she[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]only went topless and she mostly just danced [/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]around[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]and crap like that. I[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]

just want to make sure everyone's story is [/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]straight,[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]in case anyone asks.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]And his friends and brothers replies were typical...what stripper? yeah there was a stripper etc... but one of his friends replies really bothered me and said If you guys would have seen Sunday night, you would've thought it was John himself!!!!!![/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][sIZE=3]I noticed he deleted all of these emails. Maybe because he knew he gave me his password and I might check?? He basically denied everything and said he wanted to see if I'd check his email. [/sIZE][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][sIZE=3]I highly doubt he would go through all of the effort to "set me up" but if he did it's even worse. I don't belive that he set me up and brought all of his friends into this "let's set Jennifer up game". What do you think? What do you think I should do? Here is is 20 days from our wedding and I can only sit here and continue planning this wedding with this sick feeling in my gut. I feel like I've been taken advantage of, lied to, etc.[/sIZE][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][sIZE=3]The sad thing is this is the man that I have believed up in till now would never hurt me and loves me so much. But he obviously doesn't if he lies to me right?[/sIZE]

 

[/sIZE][/FONT]

[stace779]

My Fiance just recently had a 3 day bachelor party over Labor Day Weekend. He went to SC b/c his brother owns a bar there and all of his friends flew in ( They are all mostly single). His brother made all of the arrangments. I had serious anxiety about the whole thing. I konw everyone says that "if you trust eachother then there shouldn't be an issue" and he's never given me a reason not to trust him but I have seen him drunk and I was really freaked out!

 

He has told me that he doesn't like strip clubs or strippers (he's too cheap to give them any money) but I also know that when you are drinking, and when the stripper is being paid fory you lot's things that you "might not normally do" are not so bothersome when you are drunk. I have seen my finace drunk and I have seen him belligerent and it's not pretty. I guess you can say that I don't trust him when he is drunk.

 

Maybe I have seen too many movies or I have too active of an imagination either way I worried all weekend about what he was doing. I think part of the problem is that every guy I have talked to about this makes me feel even worse. They all get that distant look in their eyes with a crooked smile like they are thinking back on bachelor parties of the past and they all have said that if not the groom at least someone ends up sleeping with a stripper!!

 

Is it just a rule at these stupid parties that men have to egg eachother on and get really wasted and encourage eachother to do stupid things that they might regret?!?!

 

Ok, he goes to his party and he is extremely hung over when he's coming home. I asked if he had a stripper and he said yes, that she took her clothes off, danced around, and not much more. He said she did not take her bottoms off. . .

 

Then, I check his email ( only because something in my gut was telling me too, and I felt like I had to follow my gut, and that is the only reason ) Guess what I find... an email from his friends (actually it was a reply) his email to them was nowhere to be found. His email to them said By the way, I told her some about the stripper but I told her that she only went topless and she mostly just danced around and crap like that. I

just want to make sure everyone's story is straight, in case anyone asks. And his friends and brothers replies were typical...what stripper? yeah there was a stripper etc... but one of his friends replies really bothered me and said If you guys would have seen Sunday night, you would've thought it was John himself!!!!!!

I noticed he deleted all of these emails. Maybe because he knew he gave me his password and I might check?? He basically denied everything and said he wanted to see if I'd check his email I highly doubt he would go through all of the effort to "set me up" but if he did it's even worse. I don't belive that he set me up and brought all of his friends into this "let's set Jennifer up game". What do you think? What do you think I should do? Here is is 20 days from our wedding and I can only sit here and continue planning this wedding with this sick feeling in my gut. I feel like I've been taken advantage of, lied to, etc The sad thing is this is the man that I have believed up in till now would never hurt me and loves me so much. But he obviously doesn't if he lies to me right?

[ookla_2]

Stace...

You need to start your own thread - this is hijacking cj's original thread.

With that being said - I truly think you need to confront him with what you saw. DON'T get married without doing that! You will NOT be able to let go of it in your mind and truly enjoy what should be the happiest day of your life if you have this hanging over you.

[cj1988]

Stace, he is lieing to you honey. They will say anything when they are caught to get you off the scent of betrayal. Maybe she did take her bottoms off, they do where I live. So what, but that is still a lie. Just when you think you know someone, you find out they may very well be someone else. Just remember who you are, I am trying to find my way back as well and have that awful "GUT" feeling as well in my situation.

 

You have to come to the conclusion he will never admit it out of fear, guilt whatever, but you have to decide what you can live with or forgive. Through these posts and friends I am learning this myself, so I am speaking from experience. Good luck!

[ookla_2]

and TRUST me...it's much better finding out BEFORE you marry him...because you don't HAVE to get married if it's not something you can live with.

[stace779]

Sorry - didn't mean to interupt someone's post - this was my first post and first time on a site like this. I will start a new one.

 

thank you both for your advice

[ookla_2]

I am guilty of hijacking a few myself.

 

Your experience is definitely along the lines of cj's question...but your situation merits a thread of its own...because I think you are going to get LOTS of advice!!

 

Welcome to the boards! I hope you find it as helpful and friendly a place as I do!