Author Curmudgeon Posted September 12, 2007 Author Posted September 12, 2007 OK then get off the Internet now. You are too ancient for it; you obviously don't get it. It has become your entire world. Sad. I so love ageism. It's so mature! Child, I was on computers that took up half a football field and required air conditioning back in 1975 -- likely before you were a glimmer in your father's eye, judging from your childish reactions. Grow up. Then come talk to me.
Author Curmudgeon Posted September 12, 2007 Author Posted September 12, 2007 UMM, THIS IS NOT RAGE. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE POSTS IN ALL CAPS DOES NOT MAKE IT RAGE. YOU ARE TAKING THE INTERNET AS REALITY AND A STATEMENT OF SOCIETY AND THAT IS SCARY. If you can't see that it's a microcosm of society then you have no business teaching anyone anything, and especially not impressionable youths. In common Internet etiquette, all caps is yelling. Now go do your homework!
Izzy B Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 I so love ageism. It's so mature! Child, I was on computers that took up half a football field and required air conditioning back in 1975 -- likely before you were a glimmer in your father's eye, judging from your childish reactions. Grow up. Then come talk to me. I was seven years old in 1975.
uniqueone Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 Where I would bodily pick the child up and leave the store, find a safe spot and allow them to continue their tantrum unimpeded. A lot of parents (usually mothers) can't do that. They are running from work to day care to the store to home and so on. They just can't up and leave or they can't get anything done. While your suggestion of leaving immediately is the ideal one, it just doesn't work for most busy parents. I would also tell them that until they are ready to speak to me in a clear apologetic voice, I will not be speaking to them. I have to disagree with this one. They're toddlers. That isn't really appropriate for a two year old. If this were at home, I would step over them, while allowing them to thrash on the ground with the same, clear understanding. Have to disagree with this one too. Why not find out what is making them so frustrated? Here's an example: I know you wanted the candy but we can't have candy tonight....you had some earlier today already and it's not good to eat too much of it. Maybe another time we can get some candy, ok? And if they say "BUT I WANT THE CANDY!!!" Then you say: We can't have candy today but you can have either a banana or some raisens. Which one would you like to pick? This approach is much more calming than ignoring the child. True, by ignoring her you might change her behavior in the short run, but you'll be doing some damage in the long run emotionally. With the suggestion that I made, you give the toddler a choice (banana or raisens). Toddlers are struggling for control and doing that would give them a sense that they have control and it would ease their frustration. And it would do so without causing any emotional damage.
Author Curmudgeon Posted September 12, 2007 Author Posted September 12, 2007 I was seven years old in 1975. ...and clearly haven't progressed much beyond that point.
Trialbyfire Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 A lot of parents (usually mothers) can't do that. They are running from work to day care to the store to home and so on. They just can't up and leave or they can't get anything done. While your suggestion of leaving immediately is the ideal one, it just doesn't work for most busy parents. Sure they have time. Nothing is more important than a child's behavioural patterns. It's what they grow up with and act like, as adults. I have to disagree with this one. They're toddlers. That isn't really appropriate for a two year old. Two year olds are brighter than you think. I've babysat enough little ones to know that they're amazing little people. Have to disagree with this one too. Why not find out what is making them so frustrated? Here's an example: I know you wanted the candy but we can't have candy tonight....you had some earlier today already and it's not good to eat too much of it. Maybe another time we can get some candy, ok? And if they say "BUT I WANT THE CANDY!!!" Then you say: We can't have candy today but you can have either a banana or some raisens. Which one would you like to pick? This approach is much more calming than ignoring the child. True, by ignoring her you might change her behavior in the short run, but you'll be doing some damage in the long run emotionally. With the suggestion that I made, you give the toddler a choice (banana or raisens). Toddlers are struggling for control and doing that would give them a sense that they have control and it would ease their frustration. And it would do so without causing any emotional damage. You do not negotiate with emotional terrorists. Until the child is calm, you will never get them to reason. After they're calm, negotiation is ideal, even after the deal is struck but they come up with some new information.
uniqueone Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 You do not negotiate with emotional terrorists. Until the child is calm, you will never get them to reason. After they're calm, negotiation is ideal, even after the deal is struck but they come up with some new information. I don't think they're emotional terrorists if you treat them the way that I suggested from day one.
Trialbyfire Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 I don't think they're emotional terrorists if you treat them the way that I suggested from day one. Every single child goes through a phase of tantrums, regardless of upbringing. It happens at the time they learn to say "no". This is a key time to nip the behaviour in the bud. I've seen the difference between children with spineless parents and ones with caring but firmly consistent parents. Behaviour patterns are totally different. Many of my friends have children of this age and a little older. They are all wonderful kids in their own ways but the tantrum thing is key.
uniqueone Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 Every single child goes through a phase of tantrums, regardless of upbringing. It happens at the time they learn to say "no". This is a key time to nip the behaviour in the bud. I've seen the difference between children with spineless parents and ones with caring but firmly consistent parents. Behaviour patterns are totally different. Many of my friends have children of this age and a little older. They are all wonderful kids in their own ways but the tantrum thing is key. I am aware that saying no is part of being a toddler and about tantrums as well. I don't believe in permissive parenting either. What I suggest is not permissive at all. It's a different approach than yours, but not permissive.
Trialbyfire Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 I am aware that saying no is part of being a toddler and about tantrums as well. Also I don't believe in permissive parenting either. What I suggest is not permissive at all. It's a different approach than yours but not permissive. Your approach will only work after they're calm. Have you a lot of exposure to little children? They are not reasonable when they want something and they've hit a certain point.
underpants Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 Every single child goes through a phase of tantrums, regardless of upbringing. It happens at the time they learn to say "no". This is a key time to nip the behaviour in the bud. I've seen the difference between children with spineless parents and ones with caring but firmly consistent parents. Behaviour patterns are totally different. Many of my friends have children of this age and a little older. They are all wonderful kids in their own ways but the tantrum thing is key. Oh... This is sooo true. I see a lot of different parenting syles. The one consistent thing I see is the baby testing all of them. You make the boundaries/rules early, the more the adaptation. Littles are so much more smarter then parent's sometimes give them credit for. My nephew has pulled the wool over my eyes a couple of times. This is where good communication between the parents and the aunt/sitter comes in. It is all about consistency. Littles love rules. ---and it does take a village.
amerikajin Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 What are those people so angry about? What's so earth-shattering about the end of a non-committed relationship that someone has to plot revenge. What satisfaction do some people get from plotting vendettas against a perceived wrong by someone who wasn't that big a part of their lives in the first place. Is it all about being right? Winning? Coming out on top? Saving face? Being in the driver's seat? Proving something? If so, there are an awful lot of very emotionally fragile people out there in more need of therapy than a social life. I'm not one who usually subscribes to these "I really miss the good ole days" threads, but this is one I might be inclined to agree with. I think that our society is creating successive generations of people with poor interpersonal skills. I've seen it in some of the younger generations of my extended family. Parents let their kids stay in their rooms to play on the computer or watch DVD's. I swear, I've known people who approach women (and people in general) as if they were some kind of computer network that needed to be fixed.
Trialbyfire Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 Oh... This is sooo true. I see a lot of different parenting syles. The one consistent thing I see is the baby testing all of them. You make the boundaries/rules early, the more the adaptation. Littles are so much more smarter then parent's sometimes give them credit for. My nephew has pulled the wool over my eyes a couple of times. This is where good communication between the parents and the aunt/sitter comes in. It is all about consistency. Littles love rules. ---and it does take a village. No kidding. I've had my nephews over since they were born. They are the most amazing little people. I love them dearly. They went through this phase too and between their parents and myself, we kept a consistent methodology so they knew they couldn't pull a fast one on me and for that matter, their grandparents. Both learned STAT, that tantrums got them nothing and they learned quickly how to negotiate like little fiends. I love this quality about them. All spirit and mischevious as anything, but well-behaved.
halfarock Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 Where I would bodily pick the child up and leave the store, find a safe spot and allow them to continue their tantrum unimpeded. I would also tell them that until they are ready to speak to me in a clear apologetic voice, I will not be speaking to them. If this were at home, I would step over them, while allowing them to thrash on the ground with the same, clear understanding. No attention or bad needs met, the child learns that this type of behaviour has no rewards, therefore, is not worthwhile. …This approach is much more calming than ignoring the child. True, by ignoring her you might change her behavior in the short run, but you'll be doing some damage in the long run emotionally. With the suggestion that I made, you give the toddler a choice (banana or raisens). Toddlers are struggling for control and doing that would give them a sense that they have control and it would ease their frustration. And it would do so without causing any emotional damage. I treated my kids the way that Trialbyfire describes. As long as you are otherwise loving towards them, this won’t cause any emotional damage. If you never give in, it is quickly forgotten by the child. I mostly enjoy life and that includes my children. Because of this I never really got mad at my kids. Whenever they did wrong I treated them in a calm manner, thinking clearly. Often times I see parents getting overly mad at their children, yelling and whatnot. It just makes getting angry as a method of trying to control others a learned behavior.
Trialbyfire Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 I treated my kids the way that Trialbyfire describes. As long as you are otherwise loving towards them, this won’t cause any emotional damage. If you never give in, it is quickly forgotten by the child. I mostly enjoy life and that includes my children. Because of this I never really got mad at my kids. Whenever they did wrong I treated them in a calm manner, thinking clearly. Often times I see parents getting overly mad at their children, yelling and whatnot. It just makes getting angry as a method of trying to control others a learned behavior. Exactly. You have to be fast on your feet, by out-thinking kids. Using humour is a great way to avoid the build-up of adult/child walls. Get creative and non-confrontational, while maintaining a loving consistency.
oppath Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 My parents were very critical of me. As a result I was always too quick to try to correct wrongs. I was raised not to express affection. It was unmasculine to tell my dad I loved him when I left for college. That made me a pussy in his eyes. So accepting and giving compliments has always been difficult for me. Expressing affection has always been difficult for me. Saying "I like you" to a girl after 3 months of dating was difficult. A couple years ago I decided to repair the bridge with my family and be more open about my life and my feelings, telling them about my work, my relationships, even some aspects of my sex life. My thought was "if I can't talk to my family about these things at all, then I won't be able to discuss important things with a girlfriend." Many people never learn how to have difficult conversations. I did not. I did not know how to say "I like you" and I did not know how to say "I am upset with you." Anger is ok, but simply saying "I'm really upset with you right now, do you understand why?" in a stern voice is all you need to often say. You don't need to react to the feelings of anger, you need to express them, even to your kids. "I'm really upset you didn't clean the garage as I asked you to? Can you understand why?" is much more constructive to a kid than "I thought I told you to clean the garage. Get your butt out there and do it now."
Touche Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 My parents were very critical of me. As a result I was always too quick to try to correct wrongs. I was raised not to express affection. It was unmasculine to tell my dad I loved him when I left for college. That made me a pussy in his eyes. So accepting and giving compliments has always been difficult for me. Expressing affection has always been difficult for me. Saying "I like you" to a girl after 3 months of dating was difficult. A couple years ago I decided to repair the bridge with my family and be more open about my life and my feelings, telling them about my work, my relationships, even some aspects of my sex life. My thought was "if I can't talk to my family about these things at all, then I won't be able to discuss important things with a girlfriend." Many people never learn how to have difficult conversations. I did not. I did not know how to say "I like you" and I did not know how to say "I am upset with you." Anger is ok, but simply saying "I'm really upset with you right now, do you understand why?" in a stern voice is all you need to often say. You don't need to react to the feelings of anger, you need to express them, even to your kids. "I'm really upset you didn't clean the garage as I asked you to? Can you understand why?" is much more constructive to a kid than "I thought I told you to clean the garage. Get your butt out there and do it now." Sorry, but that made me laugh. That would NEVER work or be constructive with MY child. If I said that to him he'd say "No, I can't understand why. I do plenty around here. And you're not even paying me, etc. etc. ad nauseum" My approach is the "I thought I told you to clean the garage. Get your butt out there and do it now." Now THAT'S much more constructive in my book. That much he understands and gets. The other approach is laughable. You don't have kids do you? And no offense to unique but your approach doesn't work. You don't have kids either, do you? I'm not here to negotiate with my child. We have rules and we expect them to be followed. Period and end of story. Also, I completely agree with TBF. I can absolutely tell by a child's behavior what kind of parenting they're getting. The spoiled, obnoxious ones always have the parents who "negotiate" with them and who give them choices. It's a joke!
Trialbyfire Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 Touche, your little man is way too smart, charming and cute, for his own good. Get out the twelve gauge shot gun, 'cause you're going to need it when he hits the higher grades and the chicas flock even worse than now.
Touche Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 oh Touche you are just abusive! Listen, that wooden spoon has a crack in it so that should tell you something! All kidding aside though, some people (like my sister) would actually say that our style of parenting IS abusive. I find that to be really sad. Good old-fashioned discipline is considered abuse now. No wonder so many kids are so screwed up and disrespectful.
Touche Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 Touche, your little man is way too smart, charming and cute, for his own good. Get out the twelve gauge shot gun, 'cause you're going to need it when he hits the higher grades and the chicas flock even worse than now. I know. I have no idea what I'm going to do. It's already bad with girls calling all the time and he's only in 6th grade.
annabelle75 Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 Cool! I no longer am constrained by issues affecting mere mortals. Hee hee .... great response. Wish I had seen this sooner.
Trialbyfire Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 I know. I have no idea what I'm going to do. It's already bad with girls calling all the time and he's only in 6th grade. I don't wanna' be paying his cell phone bills, when he gets older. Hee hee .... great response. Wish I had seen this sooner. Sociopaths FTW!! We get things done.
Touche Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 I don't wanna' be paying his cell phone bills, when he gets older. Cell phone? What cell phone?
Trialbyfire Posted September 13, 2007 Posted September 13, 2007 I don't wanna' be paying his cell phone bills, when he gets older. Cell phone? What cell phone? Hahaha.... He'll break you down, first with nagging, then whining, then charm, then negotiation. I know it!! Get the calling card variety, where he has to pay for his own calling cards.
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