Cobra_X30 Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 I'm sure that's true - but does she need to salute or something? What's with this whole "men must be the leader" jazz? I laugh hysterically every time I hear it, sorry. True or False, You are attracted to traits in men that show leadership qualities?
Cobra_X30 Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 and ... NO. Its not ok for him to blow off steam like this. Attacking the women that post here and using vile names is not an acceptable. Schucks, I havnt gone back to read the whole thing.... I glanced through it didnt look like he had insulted you directly. Am I wrong in that? His anger seems directed at this girl who dumped him and tangently at women in general.
jcster Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 So easy we forget that this lady was with me taking her out, wining and dining her and buying her stuff. This would have went on for a long time if I had not addressed it. I guess this is okay?? Was this the condition for the relationship? If so, it's called prostitution. If not, it's called a "gift." Gifts are not investments. Gifts are given for free, and when we don't want to give them anymore, we stop. Getting angry at someone who didn't compensate you adequately for your gifts generally means that you aren't angry at them, you're angry at yourself. Why did you feel like you needed to buy so many things for her? It sounds like you try to buy dates with these women and then get angry when you feel cheated.
Cobra_X30 Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 So easy we forget that this lady was with me taking her out, wining and dining her and buying her stuff. This would have went on for a long time if I had not addressed it. I guess this is okay?? A woman could not understand, after all, they expect to be put on a pedastal with no reutrn investment. LOL... it isnt about ROI. Look PP, take this experience and learn from it! Not all women are like that... You need to take a time out and really think about the difference between standing up for yourself and bieng a bully!
jcster Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 True or False, You are attracted to traits in men that show leadership qualities? Let's define "leadership qualities." Knowing when to be a leader and when not is an excellent quality of leadership. Needing to be the leader at all times is not. I'm not attracted to men that need to be in control every second, nor am I attracted to men who abdicate all control.
Trialbyfire Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 Hey pp, why not send her an invoice for the money you spent on her?
Lishy Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 Ok Tiny PP I have a helpful suggestion for you to ponder. Sit back, take a long puff on that doobie and go back and read all of your posts and all of the answers. I think (If you have a brain bigger than a pea) that you will realise that you are coming across here as a PRICK! Take a breath and realise that you are hurt and upset as you liked this girl and she didn't like you as much. Yes you bought her dinners and other stuff but that is life. I am sure she did like you at first and maybe she is just too caught up with her ex to get into something with you BUT the impression you are giving here is that you are a prick and she did the right thing! You are not being up front and honest and not sugar coating things as you think, you are infact coming across as a bullying, egotistical woman hater and also a bit psychotic! It doesnt look good! I dont know you (and I wouldn't want to) but if you honestly do want advice and support then think about how you word things. Your manners are leaving alot to be desired!
Cobra_X30 Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 Let's define "leadership qualities." Knowing when to be a leader and when not is an excellent quality of leadership. Needing to be the leader at all times is not. I'm not attracted to men that need to be in control every second, nor am I attracted to men who abdicate all control. Yes, that IS a leadership quality. When was the last time you enjoyed working for a micromanaging control freak? We men refer to this as Delegating! Of course that term is kind of hush hush! Truth is you cant argue with it... you may have a slightly different idea than most of what a good leader is.... but thats what you want in a man! See it isnt about control! It's about responsibility, and doing the right thing. A good leader is going to listen to you, understand your desires and needs, and validate your feelings, but that doesnt mean he will always make the choice you want!
annabelle75 Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 I don't need a man to lead me. I prefer a partnership.
jcster Posted September 10, 2007 Posted September 10, 2007 See it isnt about control! It's about responsibility, and doing the right thing. A good leader is going to listen to you, understand your desires and needs, and validate your feelings, but that doesnt mean he will always make the choice you want! True - but in the context of a relationship, it's vitally important that it be an equal partnership. That means that leadership is shared based upon relative strengths (or willingness to take on the task). What I took from your post was that Woggle, as husband, was the defacto leader of the marriage, and that he needed to step up into that position. That's a sure recipe for failure. Marriage is a partnership - "A house divided against itself cannot stand" (or something like that) - the idea of men as "head of household" is a holdover from the time when women were legally prohibited from owning property. I don't think anyone wants to go back to those days - or if they do - they know better than to say it too loudly.
Woggle Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 I am n ot the defacto leader in my marriage and in fact we have a very equal marriage. I just get into a funk sometimes and I can't deal with any woman but that is not my wife's fault. At the same time I don't let any woman treat me as a doormat to be walked all over. I demand the same respect that she would demand from me. Too many women think they can treat a man as poorly as they want and he is obligated to kiss her ass because she was born with a vagina and I don't play that. Show respect and you will get it in return and if not you can get out of my life. Women don't like to be controlled but they need to respect a man in order to be attracted to him and too many men today throw their self respect out the window which in turn causes women not to respect them. I have to agree with people here that say you are going too far by bellitling her. Just tell her have a nice life and forget about her. Don't even worry about getting revenge or any of that crap. Women are not worth it stressing yourself over like that.
Curmudgeon Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 Women are not worth it stressing yourself over like that. Are men, Woggle?
Woggle Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 Are men, Woggle? Sine I don't date men I can't answer that. I address most of my posts to men and in my mind any woman worth the stress won't cause you any stress in the first place.
Woggle Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 Oh yeah one more thing. Why is it that the women who get most offended if somebody dares say something against women are also the same women who seem to hate men with a capital H. Misandrists are the ones that usually get all bent out of shape if a man does not worship at the altar of womanhood.
allina Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 Oh yeah one more thing. Why is it that the women who get most offended if somebody dares say something against women are also the same women who seem to hate men with a capital H. Misandrists are the ones that usually get all bent out of shape if a man does not worship at the altar of womanhood. I don't know Woggle, and your posts don't really bother me, I just wanted to point out one thing. Sometimes your attitude towards women, even the language you use is VERY similar to how feminists speak about men. Since you dislike feminists so much why do you allow yourself to be just like them except for pointing the finger the other direction.
uniqueone Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 I didn't read the whole thread but here's my comments..... She still has feelings for this guy? She dumped him. She made a choice, now she needs to live with her choice and move forward. People are fluid. They go back and forth...and even sideways. Instead, she choses to sulk and waste her emotions on something negative. Isn't this exactly what you're doing right now??? And most women are the same when it comes to be attracted to losers. I have seen it over and over again and it can be physically proven. Can you explain the "physically" part to me? Women are not logical. Well now you have us all swayed........ Women should have the capacity to stop and think: "I don't want to lose this new, great guy because I have my head so far up my own azz I can't breathe." Uh...maybe she doesn't think you're that great of a guy. \ Oh and btw, that comment about having her head up her azz shows you have anger issues. Sounds pretty damn selfish to me. Now WHO is the one who's selfish here????
Trimmer Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 Okay, we have already established that as a "man" I am not allowed to have emotions. So I can see why you think I am not allowed to be angry. Aren't you being incredibly disingenuous here? Of course you are allowed and expected to have emotions. And you are encouraged to come on here and vent about them. Here's the difference: you seem unable to distinguish between your feelings and your behavior. If someone tells you you shouldn't have acted that way towards her, your response is that they are telling you not to feel that way - these are not the same. We have feelings; we choose - and are responsible for - our behaviors. Being hurt at rejection is absolutely understandable - I wouldn't tell you otherwise. Even being angry - feeling anger - is understandable. In spite of how you might be interpreting the comments of others on here, I allow you your feelings of anger. I've got no problems with the feelings someone has as a result of rejection. What I watch for, to illuminate for me the character of a person (note I'm not talking about man vs. woman here - this applies equally) is what you do with those emotions and feelings. How you behave, how you work through them, both in your head and through the actions you choose. The problem is that the behavior you exhibited towards her as a result of your anger was unwarranted, and doesn't do anything towards truly resolving your feelings of hurt and anger, and making you a better person next week than you were last week. You come out the other side, still bitter towards her ("Next time I pass her by, I may just give her the finger!! F her!! I don't owe her respect or anything!"), still bitter towards women in general ("Freaking women..... go figure... delicate little flowers"), and I'm guessing still bitter towards the whole idea of relationships in general ("I am not "that guy" for any woman.") There's a difference between "standing up for yourself" and "striking back," and this is where I find myself wavering on Woggle's philosophy as time goes on. To the degree that he says to be strong, be yourself, be a good partner, expect the best from your partner, don't "hand your balls over", and stand up for yourself, I can see his points. I have learned much of this myself along my own path. However, when "stand up for yourself" is put into action as "stand up for yourself by denigrating all members of the opposite sex," or interpreted as "stand up for yourself by striking back," then I strongly disagree, irrespective of the gender involved. peace_pipe, it seems the only way you know how to stand up for yourself is to strike back. Quite simply, this is a defensive response, one borne of fear. You whistle in the dark, say that you are a great catch and the women are deficient, and that you would be OK with - and maybe better off - being single, but your actions are coming from fear. It drives you. It's not enough for you to walk away, not even enough to say your piece; you want to flip her off and tell her to her face to "F... off." What is it that is scaring you into such a defensive posture? What are you so afraid of that you can't feel the other feelings? If you somehow got to a place where you believed in yourself, where you weren't desperate for someone outside of you to validate that you really could be "that guy", where you could walk both into and out of a 2 week dating relationship with calm confidence in yourself, then you would not be so afraid of feeling the very real sadness of being rejected and reflexively morph it into anger, and worse, project it on others to try to rid yourself of it. "Standing up for yourself" would become a journey about you... yes, maybe walking away from unhealthy or undesired interactions you encounter, but still being able to walk with confidence and composure toward your future, toward what comes next, at peace with your identity, instead of angrily dragging along your past - or worse yet, running from it, kicking, scratching, and striking at it in fear.
Trialbyfire Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 I also agree. Well said Trimmer. "Standing up for yourself" would become a journey about you... yes, maybe walking away from unhealthy or undesired interactions you encounter, but still being able to walk with confidence and composure toward your future, toward what comes next, at peace with your identity, instead of angrily dragging along your past - or worse yet, running from it, kicking, scratching, and striking at it in fear. This is the best part. The only real issue I see is that they dated for only a couple of weeks. Not only that, but she was upfront about her issues and effectively provided him with closure. While I believe anger can be used effectively, I don't understand the full-on anger he emits. She didn't play any withdrawal games, lead him on or treat him poorly.
Cobra_X30 Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 True - but in the context of a relationship, it's vitally important that it be an equal partnership. That means that leadership is shared based upon relative strengths (or willingness to take on the task). What I took from your post was that Woggle, as husband, was the defacto leader of the marriage, and that he needed to step up into that position. That's a sure recipe for failure. Marriage is a partnership - "A house divided against itself cannot stand" (or something like that) - the idea of men as "head of household" is a holdover from the time when women were legally prohibited from owning property. I don't think anyone wants to go back to those days - or if they do - they know better than to say it too loudly. With the exeption of the defacto part you pretty much nailed what I was trying to say. We are going to have to agree to disagree on what makes marriages work. I hear partnership and I know that rarely works. Yeah, it sounds great on paper... in fact nearly every woman in the world is looking for a partner. Keeps the divorce rate high I suppose. Now if the idea of allowing a man to control parts of your life is what you find offensive... and that may be the case... thats a mental problem on your part!
lino Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 I only read the 1st 3 pages of this thread. I agree with you to an extent that alot of women like a*sholes, in my age group anyway (early 20s), I can't talk about the older ones I don't think you went about it the right way with this particular girl you mention though. It all started when I got into a mood after I paid for her dinner Friday night. It's not that I am cheap, in fact I love to go all out for my girlfriends. On the other hand, I don't care if it's one dollar or 50. I will not be used. Maybe this turned her off, tricked her into thinking I am some moody / or otherwise bad guy. This is your big mistake here IMO. In the 1st few weeks of seeing each other, 99% of women will expect you to pay for things if you are financially ok and definitely if you're in a much better financial situation than them. Just how it is and if you're into her it shouldn't be viewed as being 'used.'
a4a Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 With the exeption of the defacto part you pretty much nailed what I was trying to say. We are going to have to agree to disagree on what makes marriages work. I hear partnership and I know that rarely works. Yeah, it sounds great on paper... in fact nearly every woman in the world is looking for a partner. Keeps the divorce rate high I suppose. Now if the idea of allowing a man to control parts of your life is what you find offensive... and that may be the case... thats a mental problem on your part! Well I am mental then...... I follow what is good for the goose is good for the gander ideal. I don't care what brand of power steering fluid he picks up.... but there will not be a new car purchased without my input. There is no one sided control allowed in my R's. Don't want to jack this very important thread but this might make for a very very interesting thread itself.
amaysngrace Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 You have such a way of taking what I say an turning it all around. And you have a way of taking what others say but instead of receiving the info they offer you turn it off. What's the matter? Does the truth hurt? You don't answer direct questions. I do think you have a problem with looking inside yourself to find the answers necessary for personal growth. How can anybody offer you help if you aren't willing to help yourself? I think others here want to help you. But we can't unless you are honest with yourself first. You brag on yourself but you need to realize that nobody's perfect. None of us. No one is going to judge you for being less than perfect and just a human. We are all human. And we just want to help you. Truly.
jcster Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 Now if the idea of allowing a man to control parts of your life is what you find offensive... and that may be the case... thats a mental problem on your part! Everyone is in charge of their own life. I am in charge (as much as anyone can be) of my OWN life. No man, woman, child, dog, cat, hamster, or ameoba is going to be "allowed" to control my life. Interesting that you would consider that a "mental problem!" What exactly is the basis of your opinion that a man should be in charge of a relationship? That anyone should? It's a very narrow view of human relationships to boil it down to leadership in the first place. Your assertion that I am somehow damaged for not wanting a man in control of my life is one of the most insulting, derogatory, demeaning and just plain chauvinist statements I've had directed at me in a lonnnng time. I suggest you wake up, look around and realize that you are not king of the jungle and never have been.
annabelle75 Posted September 11, 2007 Posted September 11, 2007 Your assertion that I am somehow damaged for not wanting a man in control of my life is one of the most insulting, derogatory, demeaning and just plain chauvinist statements I've had directed at me in a lonnnng time. I suggest you wake up, look around and realize that you are not king of the jungle and never have been. Sorry Cobra, but she has a point here. You are coming off rather cavemanish.
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