Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Hi, one of the girls I've been dating read Sherry Argov's book "Why Men Love Bitches" and uses the techniques therein regularly. Most don't work on me but some do.. I'm wondering if any guys (or girls) have found a way to counter the following technique, which always seems to work on me: She'll feel me pulling away a little bit and she will use the "Principle #63" which states, "... a slightly aloof demeanor can often renew his respect." So if she wants something that I'm not giving her, she'll become distant and cold, yet will remain somewhat friendly. Like the way you treat a colleague or something like that. Not loving, not emotional, just... polite. And EVERY time I come running back like a shnub trying to "win her" over again. And every time she gains a little more power in the relationship. So this technique is very effective on me. I'm asking the readers here if you know any way for me to "counter" this technique with one of my own. I don't want to do anything so drastic that she'll end the relationship.. I just want something that will let me beat her technique to increase HER interest in ME rather than the other way around. Any on-topic input is appreciated.
norajane Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Well, if you recognize when she's doing it, then why do you keep falling for it each time? Next time she does that, don't give in. Stay away until she starts treating you like her lover, not someone she wants to manipulate.
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 That's just one of my weak points. Can't tell you why I keep falling for it, other than it's a very effective technique. So your opinion is that I should stay away... eg, not call, not text, etc?
norajane Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 You can use the same technique on her - if she's distant, but friendly, you can also be distant, but friendly. Once she sees her childish pouting no longer works on you, she won't keep doing it because it will be counter-productive...she'll see that she only pushes you further away when she tries to manipulate you. ...Sooooo, then she'll try some other technique.... Of course, you could just be honest and come right out and tell her you know what she's doing - that you see her trying to manipulate her each time she doesn't get her way by being distant with you, and that you aren't going to play that game with her. But that requires that you NOT fall for the game, and you say you can't do that.
Lizzie60 Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 No I can't see how you can counter her technique... it works... good for her! (see? why argue your case when you can get him to argue it for you?)
Krytellan Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Oh, it depends on how much fun you want to have with her. You have identified it, so you have the upper hand. What I would do is next time she pulls it, do what you normally do, come running back like a "shnub" as you say. Then, after you have done that, pull away from her and go aloof. Miss a phone call you might not usually miss, or don't respond to an Email you normally would respond to. Just do what she does and see what happens.
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 She's a very good player. She'll deny it. I'd have to whip out the book and point to the technique, and it would tip my hand to what I'm doing. Too confrontational. I want to use a more "Aikido-like" technique of using your opponent's force aginst her rather than direct beating. I will try what you say... I will remain upbeat and positive but not go crying back into her arms, like what she's doing has little to no effect on my mood. I won't pull completely away because that just makes her feel less loved and leads to a break up (which has happened to us more than once before.) I'll just be fun and friendly. We'll see what happens.
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 Oh, it depends on how much fun you want to have with her. You have identified it, so you have the upper hand. What I would do is next time she pulls it, do what you normally do, come running back like a "shnub" as you say. Then, after you have done that, pull away from her and go aloof. Miss a phone call you might not usually miss, or don't respond to an Email you normally would respond to. Just do what she does and see what happens. I have done that, and it's turns the relationship into a rollercoaster. Because she feels powerful when I come back and so everything is peachy again, and then when I miss the call or whatever she goes into her downward spiral again and then the cycle repeats. I'll try the "friendly and upbeat" but not "effusively maudlin" thing and see how it goes.
nittygritty Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Is she playing manipulative games or is there problems that require change and the book has helped her get the results she is wanting due to ineffective communication techniques that you both seem to be having at this time? Talk to her. Tell her how you feel about the problems that are occurring. Ask her if she has a problem with anything you do or don't do.
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 Is she playing manipulative games or is there problems that require change and the book has helped her get the results she is wanting due to ineffective communication techniques that you both seem to be having at this time? Well I'm sure she would answer the latter.. I'm sure she believes that there are things that require change and what she's doing is justified. But she approaches it in a manipulative way rather than being straightforward. I think we do need to sit down and talk (frequently) but I want to be able to bargain from a position of power rather than weakness, which is why I need to "soften her up" with my own manipulation prior to any forthright talk.
amber1 Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 No I can't see how you can counter her technique... it works... good for her! (see? why argue your case when you can get him to argue it for you?) I agree! The reason why the book was written and why these techniques are practiced is because they DO work and they have worked for many years. Honestly, I wouldn't try to counteract it. Do you like this girl? The more you counteract it the more problems it will cause. Just recognize that she is using these techniques on you because she is interested in you. If it were me, I wouldn't use them on a guy I wasn't interested in.
Phoebe Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Why do you want to be with someone who you know is manipulating you?
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 I disagree -- every technique has a counter-technique. There's nothing unstoppable. Besides, if I DON'T try to counteract it then she'll have more power than I in the relationship, and she'll be calling the shots. And when women have more power, men get their hearts broken. And I have no desire to let that happen. Men want power in relationships for the exact same reasons women do. Why shouldn't men try to improve their ability to get as much power as possible?
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 Why do you want to be with someone who you know is manipulating you? Because my dear, everybody manipulates everybody, all the time. Parents manipulate kids, kids manipulate parents, lovers manipulate lovers, wives and husbands manipulate each other. Power struggles are a way of life. To deny that is to be deluded. I have no problem with manipulative power struggles, I just want to know how to WIN them!
Lizzie60 Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 from what I read... you just want to be a better manipulator ... better than her anyway...
amber1 Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 But why are you continuing to stay with her if you don't like the manipulation? Why don't you find someone who doesn't manipulate this way or even someone who is a doormat?
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 from what I read... you just want to be a better manipulator ... better than her anyway... Exactly.. so... hints, please.
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 But why are you continuing to stay with her if you don't like the manipulation? Why don't you find someone who doesn't manipulate this way or even someone who is a doormat? I never said I didn't LIKE it, I just said I want to know how to beat this particular game. From men who've done it, or women who are willing to share, or anybody bright enough to be able to figure it out. I just want a technique to rival the cold shoulder technique. That's all.
Lizzie60 Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Exactly.. so... hints, please. Wishful thinking ... In my first post, I said : Good for her!
Phoebe Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Because my dear, everybody manipulates everybody, all the time. Parents manipulate kids, kids manipulate parents, lovers manipulate lovers, wives and husbands manipulate each other. Power struggles are a way of life. To deny that is to be deluded. I have no problem with manipulative power struggles, I just want to know how to WIN them! There are levels of manipulation. To want to learn how to be a better manipulator so that the person can have the most power in a relationship just seems a bit extreme. Sounds like a lot of game playing. Power struggles may be a way of life, but for me it wouldn't be the way of a happy life. Call me crazy or boring but I don't want to constantly be battling for control in a relationship. In my eyes your partner should be your best friend, someone you can completely relax with, not someone you're constantly fighting with. But then different people want diferrent things from a relationship. I'm sure if you do an online search you'll find lots of related books, websites and posts. Good luck.
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 Wishful thinking ... In my first post, I said : Good for her! yeah I didn't exactly expect the women here to help me out. But one did give me a hint early on in this thread: I'm going to do the "la la la I'm oblivious to your cold shoulder and I'm still happy and friendly. If you say no or act cold, I'll take it in stride, and it won't effect my mood. Don't want to play with me? No big deal, I'm happy playing with others. I'll still be respectful and upbeat, but I'm not going to indulge your little pity party. I won't even mention that you're acting different." Somehow I think this will work.
nittygritty Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 yeah I didn't exactly expect the women here to help me out. But one did give me a hint early on in this thread: I'm going to do the "la la la I'm oblivious to your cold shoulder and I'm still happy and friendly. If you say no or act cold, I'll take it in stride, and it won't effect my mood. Don't want to play with me? No big deal, I'm happy playing with others. I'll still be respectful and upbeat, but I'm not going to indulge your little pity party. I won't even mention that you're acting different." Somehow I think this will work. If you mirror her behavior, you will only be equal to her in power. If the upperhand in power is what your wanting, a healthy relationship is not your goal. Sure, you could start cheating on her and let her catch you but what are you really accomplishing by hurting her self esteem to try to take away her personal power in order to gain yours over the relationship? Maybe you should examine the reasons behind why you feel that you need to have the upperhand and most of the power in a relationship? Do you see her as inferior, superior or equal to you? Are you working with an outdated map or is this about emotionally investing in a relationship with her?
Author Cad Rake Posted September 9, 2007 Author Posted September 9, 2007 If you mirror her behavior, you will only be equal to her in power. If the upperhand in power is what your wanting, a healthy relationship is not your goal. Sure, you could start cheating on her and let her catch you but what are you really accomplishing by hurting her self esteem to try to take away her personal power in order to gain yours over the relationship? Maybe you should examine the reasons behind why you feel that you need to have the upperhand and most of the power in a relationship? Do you see her as inferior, superior or equal to you? Are you working with an outdated map or is this about emotionally investing in a relationship with her? Oh for god's sake. I love you guys, I really do, but please inform yourself about the OP before answering so that you can actually address what the OP wants. FYI, I AM already "cheating" on her.. I'm dating 2 other women and have been for a long time. I have absolutely no interest in having a "healthy" relationship with her or any of them, I want to be able to control them so that I can get laid without having to put up with endless bitching. I have no interest in "emotionally investing" with her.. I just don't want to lose the poontang. She is the one playing all these games because she is emotionally involved. I just want to play them to win, so I can get what I want from her. At this point she's so manipulative that I couldn't give a rat's tookus about her, but I do want to tap that sweet behind some more. So please please please.. all I wanted was some cool guy or girl to let me know if he/she knew of any "anti-cold shoulder" techniques. I think I've found one but I'm open to more suggestions. Thx!
nittygritty Posted September 9, 2007 Posted September 9, 2007 Oh for god's sake. I love you guys, I really do, but please inform yourself about the OP before answering so that you can actually address what the OP wants. FYI, I AM already "cheating" on her.. I'm dating 2 other women and have been for a long time. I have absolutely no interest in having a "healthy" relationship with her or any of them, I want to be able to control them so that I can get laid without having to put up with endless bitching. I have no interest in "emotionally investing" with her.. I just don't want to lose the poontang. She is the one playing all these games because she is emotionally involved. I just want to play them to win, so I can get what I want from her. At this point she's so manipulative that I couldn't give a rat's tookus about her, but I do want to tap that sweet behind some more. So please please please.. all I wanted was some cool guy or girl to let me know if he/she knew of any "anti-cold shoulder" techniques. I think I've found one but I'm open to more suggestions. Thx! FYI your thread belongs in the "Cheating, Flirting and Jealousy" Forum not the "Dating" Forum but since it is in the "Dating" Forum my opinion on the situation is that she probably enjoys sex more with her other lover(s). Perhaps you should read more books on "How to sexually satisfy a woman" to solve the "anti-cold shoulder" problem.
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