I am pushing my H towards another affair??

[JustBreathe]

I have some kind of issue I need to figure out here.

 

Short Background: D-day was 5 yrs. ago. H had affair with office skank and then confessed to prosties throughout our marriage. It's complicated, but that is it in a nutshell. We've been married 25 years this year. Separated twice, briefly both times.

 

The last time we separated was 2 yrs. ago. I had found an email account he wouldn't open. I did let him come back home, and he has changed a great deal, but I just don't feel the same anymore - something changed forever.

 

He tries so hard, I know he regrets everything, but my heart is so broken. It physically aches. Really. I can feel it. It's heavy and like it has a hole in it.

 

I feel like I don't care if he has any more affairs anymore. Honest. I don't care. Like there's nothing left inside me that he could hurt me with. If he left me tomorrow, I know I would understand. It is all so sad because I once loved him so very much. II can't get back no matter how hard I try to forgive and forget. Sometimes there are brief periods when we connect but they never last.

 

I am so mean and cold to him. I try not to be. I used to be very affectionate and loving, now I just feel like if I try to be that way, my heart begins to ache again and I want to cry, and I will be damned if I will shed one more tear over this crap, so instead I just withdraw. We don't fight or argue, I just don't say much at all and he never did from the start. So we don't talk alot.

 

I just cut him off over and over again. Push him away mentally and physically. Yet I ache at the loneliness I feel inside. Want to cry even now. It is never-ending. I think I'm pushing him towards another affair and I'm not sure why.

 

What is going on with me? Can you help me try to sort it out?

 

(Yes, I have a therapist. It doesn't seem to help much)

[JamesM]

Why are you still with him?

[jmargel]

Find another counselor, find a marriage counselor. You feeling numb to everything (IMO) is worse then feeling the hurt when he did this to you. You pushed yourself away from any affection because you are not only afraid of being hurt but the resentment you have for what he did.

 

Resentment is like drinking poision and expecting the other person to die. It doesn't do you any good. You have to honestly ask yourself if this new counseling (you really need MC) doesn't work then would it be better to start a new life without him.

 

Nothing is going to change unless you two change it. Don't worry about pushing him into another affair you need to be worry about yourself.

[V6TransAM]

I agree with them

 

Help yourself first, if one counselot doenst work , find another, I would imagine if its possible to get him involved as well with a MC or his own counselor.

 

Something is making u stay with him, u just need to be honest about yourself as far as what it is.

 

If u want it to work, u must forgive, not necessarily forget, but u have to forgive and move forward.

 

When he cheated and if he is truely remorseful it wasnt about you, it is more of a selfish action, much like mine was. Its not looked at as hurting your(from the cheaters side) other as much as it is the me, me ,me complex most people have. And yes, some of us are too dumb to see it until our eyes finally open.

[Mustang Sally]

I think you have not forgiven him.

 

I agree with the others that you need a counselor to help you find out how/if you want to forgive him.

[JustBreathe]

James M: I'm still with him primarily because of our boys who love their dad and were devastated when we separated. I will not put them through that again unless I am 100% sure we aren't going to reconcile. I have about 5 years left before they're all out of high school. 5 years is not so long when you've been together a quarter century.

 

I won't lie though and say I don't care at all for my husband. When two people are together many years, your spouse becomes more than just a spouse - he is a part of you like a wounded body part.. a leg.. or an arm.. you could amputate it and learn to live without it but it would always be missing, you would always remember what it was to have that piece of you there and you would feel that loss and remember what it felt like when it was healthy, before it was wounded. Sounds crazy, but there it is.

 

JMarg: He can't do counseling. We tried. He cannot express his feelings hardly at all even with me. He went and got 2 years therapy and it has helped ALOT, but he is who he is and still can't talk about "deep" issues much. It makes him nervous, he starts yelling, then I start crying and we get nowhere. I will say that I see a great great deal of change in him since the therapy and especially since the last brief separation. He has finally "gotten it". He is much better to his boys also. All is good... it's just me. I have this rock wall around me where there used to be only softness for him. I loved him with all my heart.

 

luvy2.. do you really think it's just the fall-out of what happens after an affair? If so, do you think it's temporary? I don't want to live the rest of my life like this. I mean it has got to be normal to feel this way after all the crap he's put me through. But I don't want to live like this forever.

 

V6...Mustang... Maybe you're both right. I have to think hard about whether I really have forgiven him or whether I'm only fooling myself and I haven't yet. I keep telling myself I'm just very deeply hurt, but maybe it's that I haven't forgiven him and it is pure resentment. I don't know how to let it go if I am holding on to resentment. It seems I've tried everything.

 

I've got a therapist. He's had his. Still ... there it is ... sleeping in the bed with us, following us wherever we go, spoiling any kind of fun we try to have together.

 

I think maybe I just don't love him anymore. If I did, then I would care if he slept with someone else. Be working my butt off to try to save our marriage. But I feel ambivalent. I honestly do not care if he sleeps around. Who could blame him? I can hardly touch him anymore. If he left, I know I'd be okay. If he left me for another woman, I would say he is her problem now.

 

Honestly. Shouldn't I care? Shouldn't I worry?

 

Here's a thought I just had. That part up there about the missing body part... maybe it is like that. Maybe I am missing what our relationship used to be? Arrrg. I think this has all finally driven me insane. I am making no sense.

[Mustang Sally]

What are your reasons for staying?

Can you list them here for us?

[V6TransAM]

JB my story is the same but the exact opposite of yours.

 

I was the one cheating.

 

When my eyes opened I felt like the biggest piece of #%#%^ in the world.

 

I denyed, covered it, lied about it to her and myself. When it happened again and we talked for hours and hours on it I finally cracked. I knew she was right and that the cheating wasnt her fault it was mine.

 

I beat myself up bad everyday, I do not know if I can fix it with her ever. I destroyed the basis of trust in our relationship.

 

I was always the stoic one, I didnt cry so I coudl be there for someone who was, etc. I was turned off emotionally, this was before I ever acted out.

 

Now I dont even know who I am some days. I've typed some of my story here or there and started crying. I didnt even know what the hell it was when it happened. I've read other peoples stories that have brought tears to my eyes. That has never happened in my life before. I like to think that is a good thing and that it helps to let me empathize with others in a much healthier way then I was before.

 

It might be too laste for her and I, I truly hope not, but I cant blame her in the same vein. I asked her to forgive me and asked if she would let me know when she did. It is all I can truly hope for and work forward from that day.

 

I have taken it upon myslef to go to SLAA meetings twice weekly and reading books on infidelity, and contributing to a couple websites. I also am going to see a counselor in a week or so and have someon to talk to to help me work on my own issues. These are things I am doing to help myself and if I am really lucky to get my relationship back and make it better than before. I would truly appreciate her at my side while I go thru all of this, but it just isnt possible right now.

 

I guess what I am trying to say, is that people do change, although nothing lasts forever. If u figure out the reason u want to be with him, u need to let go and work on yourself and maybe help him to find a way to work on himself if he is willing.

 

There are 12 step groups for situations like this, for your side of the coin and his. It does help to realize there are other guys out there like him and maybe something like that would help him to open up.

 

Even when I cant talk at meetings cause its tearing me up inside it helps tremendously when I am listneing to the others about what they have done and how they are dealing with it.

 

Amazingly there are some beautiful stories about marriages or relationships that have become better than ever after situations such as these. It is possible and I always try to think of that when I am down.

 

In the long run, you have to make up your own mind and what is acceptable and what is not. As well as what u are willing to do to either repair or let go of the situation

[tragic visions]

You are making perfect sense. I feel that I would still be the same tormented person with or without him.

 

I would still hurt over that (if he cheated) but the humiliating part would be that it would be my own fault this time. For letting him back in my heart.

[JustBreathe]

Couple of you asked why I stay and for a list if poss.

 

Here goes.

 

1) Kids.

 

2) I'm not sure.

 

I am pathetic!!

 

Reason 1: People say kids is a crummy excuse to stay, but I believe it is a valid reason to stay with someone who has hurt you very deeply. Because even though you hurt, it is BIGGER than you. I have 3 sons who love love love their dad. When we separated, even though it was brief, they were DEVASTATED. Maybe that's one thing I haven't forgiven him for. For hurting them like that.

 

It's not like we fight and argue or abuse each other. We get along okay. We are pleasant and civil. So I say... no, it isn't blissful heaven, but it isn't complete hell. It's like purgatory. If we were hateful to each other, that would be another matter.

 

I think the age of the children when the parents divorce matters. Our youngest are 13 and 16 year old boys, full of insecurity and worry as it is.

 

Reason 2: I honestly don't know why else I stay as it all seems smushed up together. But it scares me that I do NOT think "love" is one of the reasons I stay.

 

V6: You sound as if you truly love your wife. 5 yrs. ago was d-day. My H did all those things you describe the meetings and all. Then he turned around and had this email account 2 years ago. I asked him to open it. Show me what was there. He refused. That was the last time we separated because I threw him out. He promised me he would change for good if I let him come back home which I did for the kids' sake. He has kept that promise and more. But something has broken. Please. Do not go back on your promises to your wife even once, even a little. If you do, it won't matter anymore how much you love her.

 

---------------

 

 

So....getting back...

 

It bothers me that I don't care if he cheats on me. Why I don't worry when he's late from work like I used to or the phone rings and someone hangs up. This stuff used to bother me like crazy... I'd be checking his cell phone to see who called that day and what calls he made... looking in his pockets, etc. It was like I was this sick obsessed woman. I don't know when it happened, but it has stopped. I ask myself why? Have I become stronger and more secure? Is it the return of faith or trust? ... and then it hits me... .Nope..

 

It's because I don't care.

 

That scares the sh*t out of me.

[Mustang Sally]

Do you believe the kids have no idea about how you really feel towards your H?

 

You say he "tries really hard." In what ways?

 

Are you financially independent? Does this play any role in your staying?

Or are there social or religious reasons for you staying?

 

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand your sitch better.

[ICallsEmAsISeesEm]

I think your self-preservation has kicked in BIG time. Quite honestly, who WOULD open themselves back up to more of that crap he's been doling out for 25 years? I don't blame you for putting up a wall 2 feet thick and 10 feet high. That's human nature to want to protect yourself from any more hurt.

 

I think to an extent you also feel shutting yourself down gives you SOME kind of control in this mess. Being open and vulnerable and allowing yourself to get kicked over and over again is the worst place to be and leaves you feeling utterly hopeless and helpless. Rather than be in that position, you'd rather be in one of 'power' where YOU call the shots and YOU decide what you're going to accept and not accept. Kind of like a suit of armour where you're finally standing in a position of some sort of power.

 

Yeah, it's a noble gesture to stay for the kids and everyone wants to fall on the sword for them rather than upset the apple cart and cause a major change in their lives. Been there, done that. But there ALSO comes a time when you realize all you're doing is selling off little pieces of your soul by staying. That's not a price tag I find worth paying, but we all have our own limits. Good luck to you.

[JustBreathe]

Calls'em: You know what? I don't FEEL like I'm falling down on the sword for my kids... if I felt like there was something out there I was sacrificing, then I WOULD feel like that... but I don't because there's nothing out there. Do you know what I mean? A martyr isn't a martyr unless he's dying for a cause.

 

It doesn't feel like honorableness or martyrdom. It feels like I'm waiting for something or in mourning or something. Like my marriage died and I'm sitting at the wake.

 

Ack ack ack ... this stuff is even making ME sick now and I'm the one saying it.

 

Wh-i-i-i-i-ne... whine whine... what does it all M-E-E-E-E-A-N....

 

Thank you all for caring and listening. I'm going to sit with this a bit longer.

 

You know, I'm glad that calls'em said what he did. That if it were him (or she?) he would also have a wall around him. That it's self-preservation. I don't feel so bad knowing it's somewhat normal to feel this way and I'm not just cold and evil and vindictive and dead inside.

[silktricks]

JB, when you separated a couple of years ago, what brought you back together? Was it only your kids, or was there something else, something between you?

 

When you think about your husband cheating, do you feel anything? Do you feel pain, anger, betrayal, sexual arousal, interest, curiosity, anthing at all? When you say you don't care, do you mean you don't care, or that you feel dead about it?

 

Have you PERSONALLY gone to counselling? Forget the marriage counseling for the moment, and only think about yourself. Life is too short for you to feel empty inside about the person you are spending your life with. It's time for you to spend some selfish time by yourself investing in yourself. Can you take a vacation (preferably a LONG vacation) alone? No girl friends, no kids and especially no husband. Something like a cruise where your every whim can be catered to and you don't have to do a damm thing other than sleep, eat and relax. F*ck the world, in other words. Spend the time pampering yourself, not thinking about what you could be doing, or should be doing, but simply and only living in the moment.

 

After a week (or two or three if you can afford it) of doing nothing but pampering yourself, see how you feel about seeing your husband again. You may begin to understand where you are at with your marriage, and whether or not it is truly worthwhile for you to continue it.

[JustBreathe]

Well silk, lets see.. when i think about him cheating, I feel angry, but like "oh well, that is his nature. Who cares anymore. I don't want him so who can blame him. I'm just biding time anyway until I can leave." sort of hurt too. It's wierd, because I do know in my heart he won't do it again.

 

I think I've kind of begun to figure this out. I do feel resentment still. ALOT of it. But I am also mourning the loss of love and our marriage. I fear it is over for all intents and purposes. I cannot ever trust him again or love him the way I used to. I am disappointed and hurt beyond belief and I will never recover. Some people don't. I am one. I wll never be able to get over what's happened here. He was all I ever had. I will heal and be happy again one day, but I am done with men forever.

 

So.. now what do I do. My kids will be out of the house in 5 years. I have some thing in the works and I feel I can nearly double my salary by then (I makes beans right now), we have investments. I won't have to worry much about money. Won't be rich, but won't be destitute either.

 

I feel so sorry for my husband though. He is honestly doing all he can. I see how he has aged, how sad he feels, how he holds out hope and will not give it up. I really did love him so very much. I cannot believe he did all that, comprehend it. I do still care for him. I just can't live with it.

 

Affairs are serious things. People talk about them, you see it on tv and you read things about people contemplating affairs or in them and loving it on boards like these. Skanks all in love with someone else's spouse forgetting that there is someone else in the picture waiting at home, caring for children, keeping the house, and missing their spouse, knowing something is wrong. Iin the end, this is what is left. Why people do this to each other I cannot understand. He should have left me. I would have been better off.

 

I will stop here and not come back for awhile.

 

Thanks for your advice and comments. I'll be okay.

[Mr. Lucky]

I feel so sorry for my husband though. He is honestly doing all he can. I see how he has aged, how sad he feels, how he holds out hope and will not give it up. I really did love him so very much. I cannot believe he did all that, comprehend it. I do still care for him. I just can't live with it.

I'm amazed at how many BS (myself included) end up feeling this rather wistful set of emotions. After the denial, anger, loathing, hostility, guilt and hate comes pity. Sorry that we can't respond when the WS finally figures it out. Sorry that we can't reciprocate when they try so hard to be the person we always hoped they would be. Sorry that we can't offer them hope for a future together. Strange how, after they initially feel sorry for the pain they caused us, when things finally come full circle, we end up feeling sorry for them. Good luck JB...

 

Mr. Lucky

[smartgirl]

JB - I understand how you must feel. I am 1.5 years post d-day and forgiveness is still not where I would like it. The personal wound and the lost trust is hard to recover from.

 

It has been 5 years for you and that is a very long time to still feel this way. I am sure that his inability to communicate well is a big part of the problem That has been the crux of the problem for me as well. My H has great difficulty expressing his feelings. Part of what tears me apart is that I feel that he showed so much emotion for the OW. But I know that he was no better at communicating it to her, because it was one of her biggest complaints about him. But if the pain is deep inside of you, I'm not sure separating from your H will solve it. Like so many people who have been hurt by people they love (parents and others included), you may continue to carry it around with you whether he is there or not.

 

I will not presume to think I can offer suggestions that you haven't heard before. But I will share some of my feelings and maybe there will be something there for you.

 

I know intellectually why this happened. I know my role in making him vulnerable (and I've fixed those things) and I know the baggage he had since childhood that contributed. I continue to take very personally the lying and the post d-day cover up. He has worked very, very hard to make this up to me and feels deep shame and remorse for what he did.

 

I understood for the 30years before the affair that he was emotionally stunted and had an almost physical inability to speak in emotional terms. If you know anything about Meirs-Briggs, his type is clearly labled as one that sees things mostly in analytical terms and cannot interpret their emotions into thoughts and then into words. But I feel like I need that and I feel like he owes that to me. The fact that he won't give me that as badly as I need it makes me feel that he is holding back. I can't help it.

 

Only a week ago we came to realize that while the OW provided him with excitement, I provided him with a variety of boring sounding things that actually are what make him happiest. These are things he did not have in his household as a child and that he always wanted in order to feel truely loved for himself. Because he felt so euphoric with her at first, he thought she was making him happy. But as time went on he realized she was not making him happy. Only much later did he really understand why and why he was drawn bck to me.

 

This was important for me because it, for the first time, I felt that I gave him something that he couldn't get from her. That I was unique to him and that he wasn't just coming back because it was the place he was originally.

 

He is continuing to do what he can. A lot of this journey I have to take on my own because I have to get to a point that I can feel good about myself again. Difficult because of all the issues I have from childhood. But there are limits to what another person can do for me.

 

I love him and I like being with him. In over 30 years I haven't met another man i am remotely as interested in. I will never be able to forget or totally forgive him for what he did. It is a part of him now, just as my failings are. The question for any human being is how do you move on from gut wrenching loss? What about people who have lost a child or multiple members of their family? How do people grieve in a way that allows them to feel happiness even when they are carting this sad baggage around with them?

 

I don't know. Sometimes people find that helping others help them to heal. That's why I come on this site. It helps to share the pain, as long as you avoid the nasties that want to fight the intractible OP-BS war (the middle east will get solved before that one.)

 

He still has work to do and I think you need a different therapist. I left two and the third has been much better. But as I say, at this point most of the work has to be done within me. For you, you have to figure out whether you would be any happier without him. That is the big question. If the answer is no, then you have to figure out what can replace in your sense of well being the role that the unsoiled marriage used to play.

[Wibble]

You know, JB, you have put your finger on EXACTLY the dilemma that I am facing. It is 2 years since D day, and I have no inclination to let my wife back into my heart, indeed I am beginning to think, like you, that it is impossible ever to do so. I often think it would have been kinder to just leave me and go off with the OM, at least then you have a line drawn under your marriage. Instead she has dumped a pile of emotional trauma on my lap, and expected a marriage to be re-built from it.

 

As I see it, a marriage after adultery is a total re-build job. There is very little of the previous relationship that the BS would like to see in the "new" partnership, because we know where that ended up, don't we?. So in effect it is a fresh start.

 

But here's the kicker - we are trying to form a bond with someone who, had we known of their character weaknesses beforehand, we would NEVER choose as a mate. This means that we are CONSTANTLY having to persuade OURSELVES that the prize is worth the fight. And you know what? The longer you keep telling yourself that it is worth it, the more you keep asking why you need this re-assurance.

 

In my own case, after 2 years of internal torment, I have accepted, like you, that the kids are the priority, and the world will just have to be a grey, colourless place until I am able to find love again. Maybe it will be with the woman I used to adore, maybe someone else. I really am past caring. All very sad, but adulterers really know not the anguish and devastation they cause.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm amazed at how many BS (myself included) end up feeling this rather wistful set of emotions. After the denial, anger, loathing, hostility, guilt and hate comes pity. Sorry that we can't respond when the WS finally figures it out. Sorry that we can't reciprocate when they try so hard to be the person we always hoped they would be. Sorry that we can't offer them hope for a future together. Strange how, after they initially feel sorry for the pain they caused us, when things finally come full circle, we end up feeling sorry for them. Good luck JB...

 

Mr. Lucky

Wow, you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I went through. We are not and will never reconcile. It's too late...the feelings are gone.

 

JB, if you've hit the pity stage, think hard about why a separation would be so bad on your boys, if both you and your WS are mature about it and continue to put the boys' best interests first. Food for thought.

[Bobby NoBrains]

It bothers me that I don't care if he cheats on me. Why I don't worry when he's late from work like I used to or the phone rings and someone hangs up. This stuff used to bother me like crazy... I'd be checking his cell phone to see who called that day and what calls he made... looking in his pockets, etc. It was like I was this sick obsessed woman. I don't know when it happened, but it has stopped. I ask myself why? Have I become stronger and more secure? Is it the return of faith or trust? ... and then it hits me... .Nope..

 

It's because I don't care.

 

That is your answer in a nutshell ... His repeated uncaring behaviour has killed the relationship for you. Best to move on, imho. But, esp because of your long relationship, I feel like I am not the correct person to comment on this. I'm in the middle of a break-up myself, so what do I know.

 

But, seriously. Move on ...

 

Just my two bits ..

 

Bobby

[Flyin in Clouds]

I have some kind of issue I need to figure out here.

 

....

I just cut him off over and over again. Push him away mentally and physically. Yet I ache at the loneliness I feel inside. Want to cry even now. It is never-ending. I think I'm pushing him towards another affair and I'm not sure why.

 

What is going on with me? Can you help me try to sort it out?

 

(Yes, I have a therapist. It doesn't seem to help much)

 

Screw the therapist - literally.

 

People will tell you I'm nuts for suggesting this but ...

 

Go find yourself a stud and have a fling of your own... you deserve it. Forget about "stooping to his level" yada, yada, yada... What was good for him is surely good for you.

 

A couple things could happen.

 

You will find someone that you enjoy being with more than your H and leave to be in a happier place. Or...

 

You will find out that while the sex or companionship or whatever was great that what you have with your H for a quarter century is more meaningful for you long term and your affair was no more meaningful for you than his was for him.

 

This might stop your feeling remorse (for not getting what he had?), envy, bitterness, etc. Neither of you can claim to be morally superior or inferior to the other. You can stop playing the wounded, faithful virtuous spouse card all the time. You can stop thinking "damn it I was faithful and he wasn't" if those things are bothering you.

 

Kids? If your kids would prefer you be unhappy so they can be happy then that's pretty damn selfish, which kids are, but maybe you putting your own happiness first would be a good life lesson for them.

 

Or go on punishing both of you for his "mistake", which I'm sure will make a better home for your kids - having parents that really don't love each other but are just staying togethert - for the kids.

 

And this same advice to you too Wibble.

 

And I hope JustBreathe comes back to read this...