Near Death Experiences

[SoHotZanzibar]

Anybody ever have a Near Death Experience or know someone who has? (with details)?

 

Just curious.

[woodsfield]

i don't think this is what you ara looking for, but here goes:

 

i should have died in a house fire about 7-8 years ago when i was about 22. we had a Christmas party at a buddy's house in which i drank a 1/5 of 100 proof Vodka. needless to say i was toasted (and almost cooked). i also remember the entire night vividly, even tho i cosumed that much booze.

 

description of house...single story ranch w/ basement; kitchen/living room on one end with bedrooms/bathrooms down the hall...carport, too.

 

anyways, i PASSED OUT on their couch at about +/-5 am only to wake up a short time later (i think) to see the kitchen cabinets BLAZING; totally ungulfed. i put my boots on, thinking i was going to fight this fire, and ran down the hall (passed other bedrooms) to the bedroom of my friend who was going to give me a ride home. i said to him, "do you have a fire extinguisher cause the the kitchen cabinets are on fire and i ain't sh-ttin' ya!!" (we both remember those words like it was yesterday). i ran back down the hallway still expecting to fight the blaze and the entire room which i was in was filled with smoke. the entire ceiling was burning...no other thought than to get the f--k out!

 

everyone made it out to include the guy who had passed out in the bathroom earlier that night (he had D-CKFACE still written on his forehead when talking with the firefighters---who would later ask, "we got everyone's name except this di-kface guy ). two dogs did not make it out and the house was basically destroyed.

 

the firefighters were asking how everyone got out, they turned to me, asking me how woke up, i just shook my head. one of them said it was the Good Lord that woke me up and i believe that til this day. for what i drank, i should not have woken up...i was still hammered and was until about 2 pm that afternoon. i was so drunk, i tried three times to get back in the house to get my new hat and jacket, i tried to open a door that was smoking; kept grabbing the hande "OW....OW.....OW."

 

20 more seconds and i would have slept right thru it, probably along with everyone else in the house.

[Jinnah]

Woodsfield, that's a great story... love it.

 

Okay, so I called the person I know personally (we'll call him, um... should I use his real name and pretend it's fake, use his real name and who cares, or just use a fake name? Let's go with Dave) who had the near-death experience a few years ago. So, Dave was standing in the hospital emergency room. He knew he was in a situation that required him to be in the ER, but he felt fine and was just standing there with everyone else (the doctors and his brother). As he watched, he realized that the doctors were frantically talking to each other. He could hear his brother crying and asking a lot of questions (why does he look like that?, etc.). At that point, he still just thought he was standing there normally, but then he realized he felt fine and then looked over (after realizing they weren't looking at him) and saw that his body was laying there in the hospital bed. He also realized that he seemed to be peering down at everybody and I remember him previously saying that it was unusually bright in the room. Then he saw the doctors get the defibrillator and use it on his body. The next thing he knew, he was back laying in the bed, not feeling well.

 

As I was talking to him right now, he said that it was so weird because he REALLY thought he was standing there with everyone else until he saw his body. He also said he previously wondered how his brother was still in the room while he died, and he also wondered if his brother was even really there asking the questions... he has talked to his brother and his brother says he WAS there. His brother says he noticed when he died because Dave started looking different, like something was SERIOUSLY wrong and that's when he began asking all the questions.

 

Take this how you want... you can believe it or not.

[Jinnah]

I wanted to add that there is no need to make fun, reply sarcastically, or respond rudely. I can only tell you what he said and that is all. This person is close to me, so I would be offended if anyone said anything negative about him... he did not choose to come on here and talk about it himself... keep that in mind.

[Moose]

Jinnah,

 

I think it's an interested account. There are a lot more NDEs out there. I had an episode about 5 years ago when I accidently overdosed on meds, (I had a QUACK doctor at the time), but nothing like your buddy's experience. All I saw was black......pitch black.....I remember trying to wake up out of the, "black" but was powerless to do so......it was sooo weird....

[Jinnah]

Jinnah,

 

I think it's an interested account. There are a lot more NDEs out there. I had an episode about 5 years ago when I accidently overdosed on meds, (I had a QUACK doctor at the time), but nothing like your buddy's experience. All I saw was black......pitch black.....I remember trying to wake up out of the, "black" but was powerless to do so......it was sooo weird....

 

Yeah, I kinda know what you are talking about. I have hypoglycemia and sometimes faint... Sometimes I can feel myself somewhere "pitch black" and just hanging around doing absolutely nothing. Lol, then I wake up. I guess the pitch black thing means we are still alive, just unconscious, lol.

[disgracian]

I just got back from my first jog in months, and judging by how I'm feeling right now I'd say that also qualified as a NDE.

 

Cheers,

D.

[sb129]

Woodsfield, that's a great story... love it.

 

Okay, so I called the person I know personally (we'll call him, um... should I use his real name and pretend it's fake, use his real name and who cares, or just use a fake name? Let's go with Dave) who had the near-death experience a few years ago. So, Dave was standing in the hospital emergency room. He knew he was in a situation that required him to be in the ER, but he felt fine and was just standing there with everyone else (the doctors and his brother). As he watched, he realized that the doctors were frantically talking to each other. He could hear his brother crying and asking a lot of questions (why does he look like that?, etc.). At that point, he still just thought he was standing there normally, but then he realized he felt fine and then looked over (after realizing they weren't looking at him) and saw that his body was laying there in the hospital bed. He also realized that he seemed to be peering down at everybody and I remember him previously saying that it was unusually bright in the room. Then he saw the doctors get the defibrillator and use it on his body. The next thing he knew, he was back laying in the bed, not feeling well.

 

As I was talking to him right now, he said that it was so weird because he REALLY thought he was standing there with everyone else until he saw his body. He also said he previously wondered how his brother was still in the room while he died, and he also wondered if his brother was even really there asking the questions... he has talked to his brother and his brother says he WAS there. His brother says he noticed when he died because Dave started looking different, like something was SERIOUSLY wrong and that's when he began asking all the questions.

 

Take this how you want... you can believe it or not.

 

I believe your friends account, there are thousands of similar ones, but I don't believe that this is necessarily proof that a god exists.

[Jinnah]

I believe your friends account, there are thousands of similar ones, but I don't believe that this is necessarily proof that a god exists.

 

On this thread, we are talking about near death, or life-after-death experiences, which would prove that after we die, it is not the end. A person who likes to go the extra mile, would then start wondering if that is not the end, then what? They might start to ask if God really does exist (if they didn't already believe so) and maybe start doing some soul searching or praying. Or they will just say "oh well" and go on as they were. Do as you wish...

[riobikini]

I think Jinnah's story about "Dave" describes best the experience of those whom Zanzibar might be looking to hear about.

 

But sadly -as with most spiritually-related things- proving absolute truth to the phenomenon is impossible through our current research/experimental methods.

 

re:

 

Jinnah: "...which would prove that after we die, it is not the end."

 

First, you'd have to recreate the exact type of experience in a clinical setting in order to research it -and that would just destroy the "spontaneousness" of the event and the unique circumstances and environment it usually takes place in.

 

It would also mean that being "objective" would have to be an element in the experience and that just seems to inhibit both the spiritual and physical reactions to the experience.

 

The experience is unique to only the individual and the circumstances of those it happens to.

 

I'm skeptical and reluctant to say whether or not it can ever be re-created under our current scientific methods-simply because of underlying reasons that may exist for why and how NDE's happens.

 

NDE's are a perfect example of for someone to point to and say, "I believe they happen -but I'm not sure of the reason for them, or why" or ask, "I've never had such an experience, so why should I believe?"

 

And this makes them subject to ridicule -and makes folks skeptical of them, for all, of course, except the person who happens to have had a near death experience.

 

They can be very detailed in relating the events and -even if no belief in God, or anything remotely spiritual existed in them before- they usually wind up being very occupied with spiritual topics and matters, afterwards, having a sudden and profound belief in life after death that (often) cannot be dissuaded.

 

For those who have survived suicide attempts and experienced unexplained events when they "died" -they usually, will not attempt suicide, again, specifically, because of having the experience.

 

Also -quite interesting- people who are exposed to near death experiences as told by others or read about them in books, also, seldom attempt suicide, again.

 

These NDE's are vivid -and are more likely to happen in the last few decades because of all the life-saving methods we now use.

 

But that doesn't mean that people in our time are the first to have experienced them or told about them.

 

You'll find descriptions of NDE's in Plato's Republic, written in ancient Greece, The Tibetan Book of The Dead, and many other references throughout literary history.

 

Contained in Dialogues by the sixth century pope, Gregory The Great you will find details about near death experience that are very similar to the ones described today.

 

I, for one, am a believer in the afterlife -and I believe near death experiences are *real* and have purpose -and give purpose to the lives of -first- the person who undergoes the experience, as well as those who hear about it secondhand.

 

It gives hope -but I think -in a very unique and hard-to-describe way- it gives us just the exact amount of "proof" we need -individually-speaking to develop our spiritual side.

 

Although, I have never had an NDE, I have had other very similar and profound experiences that give me the personal "proof" I need to grow and develop spiritually in such a unique a way that I could not have, had I *not* had the experiences.

 

Personality does not necessarily play a role in whether or not you will have these and other spiritual experiences -I, for instance, am a born skeptic- and could have been considered a "hard case" when it came to making me believe in such things.

 

I think the way we need to look at spiritual things is not so much with the question in mind as to whether or not they exist -but rather- why they exist.

 

 

I am encouraged by the interest and research on this topic (both the scientific community and continuing interest from lay people, and those who've had unique spiritual experiences) -and am hopeful that, despite our current more scientific methods failing to result in proof of personal experiences with the spiritual dimension(s)- that someday not that far off, perhaps, none of us will have to die to know about its existence -we'll have discovered the ways and means to access those dimensions that now elude us through our conventional methods and learn the truth that awaits us.

 

It's time to pursue it from a completely different perspective and I think great advances will made be in our time.

 

Despite how crazy that sounds.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[Woggle]

I had somebody stick a gun in my mouth and I fully believe he was going to pull that trigger. It is a miracle he decided not to.

[Jinnah]

I had somebody stick a gun in my mouth and I fully believe he was going to pull that trigger. It is a miracle he decided not to.

 

Sure is. Wow, that's scary. Do you know why they didn't?

[Woggle]

Sure is. Wow, that's scary. Do you know why they didn't?

 

He probably didn't want a murder charge.

[Enema]

Linkage:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/health/psychology/03shad.html?ex=1317528000&en=d71c1fcd10396c37&ei=5090&partner=rss

 

In one woman, for example, a zap to a brain region called the angular gyrus resulted in a sensation that she was hanging from the ceiling, looking down at her body.

 

I think I'm more likely to believe the simplest explanation, which can be proven.

 

When your brain activity is disrupted, like say... in an event that might cause you to be "near death"; it can cause your perception of your body to be altered.

 

The more science learns, the fewer gaps there are for such silly mysticisms.

[Jinnah]

Linkage:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/health/psychology/03shad.html?ex=1317528000&en=d71c1fcd10396c37&ei=5090&partner=rss

 

 

 

I think I'm more likely to believe the simplest explanation, which can be proven.

 

When your brain activity is disrupted, like say... in an event that might cause you to be "near death"; it can cause your perception of your body to be altered.

 

The more science learns, the fewer gaps there are for such silly mysticisms.

 

I believe he was clinically dead, not just near death.

[Enema]

Hi Jinnah, I'm not sure what your point is...

 

Being "clinically dead" means that your heart and respiration has stopped.

 

Your brain continues to send out electrical impulses for 37 hours after this point.

[riobikini]

The very meaning of the word "dead" is still controversial.

 

That's why there's such concern and controversy over some life-saving measures; it's a platform very similar to the one people are standing on who shout marching with signs outside clinics, research facilities etc., etc.

 

There's as much difference between physicians as to what constitutes being "dead" as there are fields of medicine and science from which to explain it.

 

It's an issue saturated in morals and complicated by definition.

 

It may vary from country to country, to hospital to hospital, and -of course- involve one's individual religious perception of what being "dead" really is.

 

There is, as Enema, pointed out the Clinical definition of death where the heart stops beating, the person stops breathing (for what may be an awesome amount of time) and his pupils are non-reactive (dilate), and blood pressure becomes undetectable, and body temp starts dropping.

 

This is when most people are pronounced "dead" -and the basis on which people were judged until medical advances in technology came along and was able to detect heretofore undetectable biological processes and brain wave activity.

 

And the whole perception of what being "dead" meant was thrown into question.

 

Here's a "for instance": Say an EEG used to detect a person's vital signs goes flat indicating no presence of life signs, but he is revived -so "was he ever "dead"?" becomes the question.

 

It's during that time when the EEG reading shows no vital signs present that some NDE's happen -on the brink of death- and the person "comes back" to tell of his experience.

 

But there are other circumstances that can produce experiences similar to NDE's, too -such as having very vivid events of your life pass in millisecond "movie flashes" during life or death circumstances- while still having the detectable presence of vital signs.

 

Some explain NDE's by theorizing that they are caused by drugs the person was being given by a physician (or illegal drugs or alcohol that the person had consumed) -or the effect on the brain caused by the body's natural chemicals being produced as it undergoes change after physical or psychological trauma -or both.

 

None of these explanations bear out to be the "best answer" or the only answer simply because we have not come to a standstill in the fields of medicine and science focused on research of the phenomenon and learning more.

 

It is still an open-ended discussion that begs for more research.

 

There is no question that NDE's do happen -finding out the true explaination for them, I think, will turn out to be more significant than we realize in all aspects of us being both physical and spiritual beings.

 

Realizing -of course- that the very idea and the acceptance of human beings even having a spiritual side is often rejected, at least, for now.

 

-Rio

[riobikini]

re:

 

 

Jinnah: " ...Dave) who had the near-death experience a few years ago. So, Dave was standing in the hospital emergency room. He knew he was in a situation that required him to be in the ER, but he felt fine and was just standing there with everyone else (the doctors and his brother). As he watched, he realized that the doctors were frantically talking to each other. He could hear his brother crying and asking a lot of questions (why does he look like that?, etc.). At that point, he still just thought he was standing there normally, but then he realized he felt fine and then looked over (after realizing they weren't looking at him) and saw that his body was laying there in the hospital bed. He also realized that he seemed to be peering down at everybody and I remember him previously saying that it was unusually bright in the room. Then he saw the doctors get the defibrillator and use it on his body. The next thing he knew, he was back laying in the bed, not feeling well."

 

 

 

The whole topic of NDE's is fascinating to me.

 

I was browsing here to see if anyone had revisited this thread to post any new material and reread Jinnah's post, above.

 

In the accounts I have read that mention it, there is an obvious imperviousness to the elements -heat, cold- and our usual need to physically adjust our eyes to dark or bright light suggesting, to me, that the physical body during an NDE seems to be no longer connected to the mind, or the true personality of the individual going through the experience.

 

It appears that the mind (or a specific state of mind) is all that remains.

 

And if the human mind is (speculated as being) the soul, then -defying the science we presently know- it may be possible that it is a spiritual being or entity unto itself that cannot be seen.

 

So, if the soul is a spiritual entity that continues to exist and operate after physical bodily death (as we know it) and is capable of producing thought and being affected and changed by it -then the accounts of persons having NDE's seem even more plausible in their retelling of the "review/judgment" part of their experience.

 

One primary initial focus of the accounts of individuals having NDE's is the effect on them rendered by having to face all they have done in their lives up to the point of the death experience.

 

The review is first slanted on all we have invested in our lives during all the days spent in our physical body and -from all the accounts I have read about or personally heard- there was an acute awareness and ultra-clarifying understanding of the result of the individual's actions as they related to his interactions with others.

 

It was "impact" knowledge -a "no-excuses" understanding of how his actions, words, and presence affected others.

 

This "inside" knowledge caused a turning of emotions and urged feelings of remorse, forgiveness, acceptance, and the unique experience of a "clearing of the slate" and relief.

 

It also caused -in many of the cases- a desire for a second opportunity, an urgency to return and correct any mistakes, misunderstandings, and wrongdoing the person might have incurred or been a part of.

 

But there was also ambivalent feelings about leaving the "place" -and I can understand that as the "place" was described as very serene, loving, and peaceful -and where just being given the opportunity to understand things with such clarity and reason made the person feel at ease -at peace- by putting a "spin" on all that he, previously, was so confused, disrupted, and misguided by.

 

This part of the accounts made me remember the biblical verse heard in my youth, "....a peace that surpasses all understanding..." and give it place and new meaning.

 

The next phase resulting in this "life review" was a simple question conveyed by what some have called "a being of light" (while others don't remember anyone specific asking the question) -was whether or not they felt they had given (or poured out) enough love while they went about their lives.

 

This question seemed to be the ultimate goal -the "adding-up" of the sum of life- that was most important.

 

During this phase of the NDE it was also conveyed that knowledge -or more specifically, the seeking of knowledge to gain even further understanding- was just as important.

 

These two things -love and knowledge- were essential, even crucial to living life with meaning and purpose.

 

And it was ongoing -a little surprising to some, it was conveyed that the pursuit of these two things was to always be our primary focus, and was to continue even into the hereafter.

 

As it should be now, I think -in the present, in each one of our lives.

 

I guess -for me- that it doesn't seem out of place that one important function of the soul (or mind?) would be the ability to stand in judgment of its own actions and be subject to some kind of reward system for its "investment" -just as we are now.

 

But I wonder -wouldn't the discovery that the soul (or mind) is eternal fit into that scenario?

 

A complete life review and an ultimate "check and balance" reward system for life "investments" can only happen when one is physically dead -although, it appears from the NDE accounts that "close-calls" closely qualify, as well -and while leaving the determination of the definition of being "dead" to the experts, people are still coming forward with these experiences and this information, defying the science (we think) we know and currently depend on.

 

We know well the science we have discovered -that the human brain operates with complex neurons and electrical impulses, etc.- and that we can see them and the effects with our eyes and highly technical machines.

 

But couldn't the state of existence after death -a soul existing without a physical body- be such an outlandish thing?

 

Who's to know -except those who weren't revived and did not come back to sit across from us in a comfy chair and tell us?

 

People having NDE's almost have.

 

-Rio

[DutchGuy]

The very meaning of the word "dead" is still controversial.

 

If they can "bring you back to life", you weren't dead.

And if somebody had a near death experience, they were alive the whole time, which means they didn't experience what it was like to be dead.

So there is no saying for a living person what there is after life.

 

I personally think (never had a near death experience) that it is like falling asleep. And after that nothing. Just like before I was born.

[riobikini]

At the risk of opening up an ugly can of worms -do you consider oneself only "alive" after birth?

 

Under the circumstances of your statement this is a reasonable question.

 

Just curious.

 

-Rio