when have you crossed the line?

[scaredinlove]

scaredinlove

 

It's been five years since what? You've been having an affair, or 5 yrs since you broke it off?

 

If it has been 5 yrs having an affair have you not been caught?

 

Since we started the affair. It was a EA first and became a full bown affair. August last his W caught us. I was married than and miserable. I told my H we separated. He is still with her.

 

Hope it is clear now.

[danis]

Here's what I'd love to be able to do. I would like to tell my H that I have a friend at work that I am very close with. (I actually hinted a little already) I would like them to meet and perhaps I would not feel so quilty.

 

Long story short, I met my husband thru my best friend which was a guy and my H couldn't handle the fact that I was friends with another man, so basically my friendship with my best friend was over and he became "Our" friend I really wasn't allowed to hang out alone with him anymore.

 

So he would never accept the fact that I have a male friend. Ultimatley I would like that the most.

[Trimmer]

We've already made it quite clear, that there will be nothing pyhsical. But then you try and come up with reassons why kissing or touching would be ok as long as you don't go too far etc...

 

It's just too difficult to separate the emotional from the physical.

I think allowing yourself to rationalize and negotiate where the limits are with your affair-partner points out the fact that you are already "over the line." If there's going to be a discussion of boundaries, it should be happening with your husband, within your marriage, not with a partner outside your marriage.

 

Saying "we will go this far, but no farther" sounds noble, like you're drawing a line in the sand, but it doesn't make your current status OK.

 

I believe the line is crossed once it is understood between you and an outside partner (either by implicit or explicit communication) that there is an attraction, and you do not take affirmative steps to back away from the relationship and protect your marriage. I think this is consistent with JamesM's point about having a relationship that you need to keep a secret...

 

All kidding aside, I love him more than anything in the whole world and that's why I don't think anything will happen with this OM.

Don't plan on your love for your husband protecting you from screwing up with your OM. Here's an important point: something has already happened. You are keeping a long-term relationship with a man secret from your husband. Something is already happening. You have already embarked on a long path, and you're still trying to convince yourself that you have not crossed some particular line.

 

I plan on spending the rest of my life with him, without cheating of course.

Then you'd better make a plan for removing the OM from your life.

 

This is why I think this EA may be just an obsession that I need some councelling for.

Take ownership here! It sounds like you think this is something that is out of your control. You are thinking that it's "an obsession", as if it's an infection that you caught. Maybe some antibiotics will help; maybe some councelling will help.

 

Maybe it will - at least you are considering taking action. But the bottom line is that you need to own this situation. It didn't happen to you, you made all the decisions yourself right along the way. You created this situation for yourself, you chose this path.

 

As long as you try to convince yourself that it's an 'obsession' (as if it is something separate and outside your true self), hoping to convince yourself that there's some "line" out there that maybe you haven't crossed yet, then you can continue to fool you that this "isn't really you."

 

It's you. It's your path, it's your choice. It's your life. Own it.

 

The hard part about fixing it is not figuring out how to do it. The hard part is owning the situation, deciding to end it, and committing yourself to your decision, and I'm not convinced you've taken any of these steps yet.

[waiting4heaven]

Is it kissing, touching or is it just intercourse? Or is an emotional affair really cheating?

 

When your emotions are fixated on someone else and not where they should be, you are emotionally gone....the kissing, touching and intercourse are sure to follow suit.

 

All the above is cheating and has the power to hurt the one your with and yourself.....

[danis]

That was an excellent response trimmer.

 

So how does one go about owning their problem and start eliminating the OM from their life. I've already told him, yesterday that we shouldn't have contact anymore that he is messing me up. His reply was I don't think I can do that.

 

He is in denial far more than me, he thinks that there is nothing wrong with what we are doing and that everyone needs a confident. Quiting my job as everyone so easily suggests is not an option. So seeing him everyday in unavoidable. Do I pretend to not notice he is around and completely ignore him. I've tried that and find myself only looking at him when he doesn't notice.

 

Sooooo, a little help in this area would be greatly appreciated.

[whichwayisup]

I'm going to do my best...although it's very difficult when I see him everday.

 

Perhaps I have an obsession is that possible? If so how do you go about dealing with that?

 

You have to change your habits because HE IS a habit, like a drug. The way he makes you feel, and that's why you need to talk/see him daily.

 

I mean, what's the longest you've gone without seeing or talking to him? And, if it was more than a week, how did that make you feel?

 

Yes, I've already thought everything thru. The last thing I want is an affair. I would never ever want to hurt my family. This EA has been going on for 3 years. I can't seem to remove myself from him, as I have told him numerous times, its over. He just laughs cuz he knows I can't go a day without talking to him. '

 

I think I may be in love with the idea of him, he's not even attractive. I just love the way he makes me feel. It's just a really good feeling to be with him and I can't seem to quit that. I honestly think I would never sleep with him.

I hate to tell ya this, but you're going to have to end that friendship. It's emotional, you're attached to him and it is taking intimate and loving energy away from your husband and your marriage.

 

Do you think and fantasize about this guy while at home? In bed, late at night, or in the morning? How often do you think of him when you're not around him?

 

The other thing is, the guy KNOWS how to play you, and if you continue down this path, a physical affair WILL start. All he has to do is wait until the 'timing' is right and make his move...

 

My H is my best friend. We couldn't really get any closer. Seriously he is my best friend and I tell him everything. (other than this and the occasional shopping spree)

 

All kidding aside, I love him more than anything in the whole world and that's why I don't think anything will happen with this OM. I plan on spending the rest of my life with him, without cheating of course.

 

This is why I think this EA may be just an obsession that I need some councelling for.

 

How would you feel if your husband had a very close emotional friendship that he was hiding from you? And he was doing all the things you're doing with the OM. Put yourself in his shoes for afew minutes, imagine how YOU would feel if you stumbled across an email, or an intimate emotional conversation. I bet it would hurt your feelings, you'd feel betrayed. Wonder why he is so close with another woman.

 

Here's what I'd love to be able to do. I would like to tell my H that I have a friend at work that I am very close with. (I actually hinted a little already) I would like them to meet and perhaps I would not feel so quilty.

 

Long story short, I met my husband thru my best friend which was a guy and my H couldn't handle the fact that I was friends with another man, so basically my friendship with my best friend was over and he became "Our" friend I really wasn't allowed to hang out alone with him anymore.

 

So he would never accept the fact that I have a male friend. Ultimatley I would like that the most.

 

So, your H has NO idea that you and this man are friends, let alone CLOSE friends? See, when you're married, that type of behaviour is wrong.

 

Even if they meet, your H knows you and more than likely will 'see' how close you and the OM are.

 

You like the OM, he is serving a purpose in your life and all that is going to do is change how you feel about your H in an intimate and emotional way. The energy you have is being put into the WRONG man. Even though you love your H, I think you're very emotionally attached to the OM, more so than your own H.

 

That was an excellent response trimmer.

 

So how does one go about owning their problem and start eliminating the OM from their life. I've already told him, yesterday that we shouldn't have contact anymore that he is messing me up. His reply was I don't think I can do that.

 

He is in denial far more than me, he thinks that there is nothing wrong with what we are doing and that everyone needs a confident. Quiting my job as everyone so easily suggests is not an option. So seeing him everyday in unavoidable. Do I pretend to not notice he is around and completely ignore him. I've tried that and find myself only looking at him when he doesn't notice.

 

Sooooo, a little help in this area would be greatly appreciated.

 

Definately seek therapy, to help you detach and learn how to change your thinking patterns. You need to get this OM OUT of your blood, out of your mind and stop using him to make you feel good and have that euphoric feeling, that high like a drug.

 

You tell the OM that it's time the friendship is over, and the dynamtic, the closeness between you two has to end. BE professional, exclude him from your personal life, don't make him a part of your daily life at all.

 

HE KNOWS you're married and will take what he can get. YOU are the married one, honestly, I bet he couldn't care less about your H or what it does to your marriage. He is in it for himself, probably for the same reason you're with him...You two make eachother FEEL good. Letting feelings grow with someone else on a romantic and emotional level when you're married is dangerous...

 

Good luck and I really hope you end things and focus on your husband.

[danis]

I think about the OM 80%, of the day. Yes in the morning, yes at night, yes when I am haveing S*X with my husband. And when a week goes by that I can not see him it's almost devastating. However I think if I had more than a week I would become stronger without him. BUt then the week is over I feel strong and go back to work feeling really good about myself. Thinking it's over I'm in control....and as soon as I see him. BAM, I turn into a weak idiot!

[JamesM]

I think about the OM 80%, of the day. Yes in the morning, yes at night, yes when I am haveing S*X with my husband. And when a week goes by that I can not see him it's almost devastating. However I think if I had more than a week I would become stronger without him. BUt then the week is over I feel strong and go back to work feeling really good about myself. Thinking it's over I'm in control....and as soon as I see him. BAM, I turn into a weak idiot!

 

Then I think that the "obvious" advice is that you need to find a new job.

[Trimmer]

First, let me say that I don't believe I am being overly dramatic here by saying what is at stake is nothing less than saving your marriage. Please read that again, and ponder it until you realize how significant it is.

 

So how does one go about owning their problem and start eliminating the OM from their life. I've already told him, yesterday that we shouldn't have contact anymore that he is messing me up. His reply was I don't think I can do that.

First point: this isn't a negotiation or a consensus gathering process. Owning your situation means that you will make this decision for yourself. He should not have the power to affect your decision. You are not asking him what to do, you are deciding what to do to save your marriage.

 

Second point: You don't "start" eliminating the OM, you do it. If you tell me that you've got a plan that has the words "gradual", "gently", "a little bit at a time" or anything like that in it, then that just tells me that you haven't made the decision to end it yet.

 

He is in denial far more than me, he thinks that there is nothing wrong with what we are doing and that everyone needs a confident.

Again, not your problem to fix, and if he has respect for you, then he should back off. If he doesn't, then take this as a sign that he is using you, not respecting you, and that may help you to disconnect your emotions from him.

 

Incidentally, having close friends and confidantes in your life is just fine and totally appropriate; he should hope to find one who is not married, and is therefore emotionally available to him to make that kind of a connection with. Since you have stated your intention to remain with your husband in a healthy marriage, you should not have a close, male confidante of this nature outside your marriage.

 

Quiting my job as everyone so easily suggests is not an option.

I wouldn't suggest that it would be easy, and while I won't to tell you that you will have to do it to fix things, I would ask you not to take that option off the table just yet. If it ultimately came down to choosing between your husband and your job, could you find a way to do it?

 

So seeing him everyday in unavoidable. Do I pretend to not notice he is around and completely ignore him. I've tried that and find myself only looking at him when he doesn't notice.

On the other hand, I'll take you at your word, that for some reason it just is not an option to leave. If not, then you have a harder road ahead of you, but one that may be possible, with great strength on your part. But here's the deal... If you decide to stay, it doesn't mean that you will be able to continue having this person in your life in some diminished capacity; it means you will have to be even stronger, more vigilant, more committed to your decision than ever. You will have to establish and vigorously guard firm personal boundaries. You are professional colleagues ONLY, and to protect yourself and save your marriage, you won't even be able to afford the kinds of friendships that would usually be considered "normal" with some work friends, like grabbing coffee together, going out to lunch, talking about home life, problems, etc. You will have to reset back to the beginning, and you can can never even allow yourself to cross the starting line again.

 

Your guideline is: behaviorally, you need to treat him as a new work colleague who has just started working there, who you do not know, who you may need to interact with for work purposes, but who you do not have any desire to get to know any better on a personal basis.

 

You will need an amount of strength and commitment right now just to end the relationship; in order to keep working there, you will probably require that same level of strength and commitment continually, until your feelings fade, which is certain to take longer while you remain in close proximity.

 

Even at that, I'm not sure whether it will be possible to clear him out of your life and your heart while still working there, but maybe... It has NOTHING to do with him and what he thinks; it is ALL about you and your ability to be strong, to commit to your marriage and this course of action.

 

So I'll loop back around to where I started. Consider that this is about saving your marriage. If you want a healthy marriage, if you want to live your life in intimate happiness with your closest friend, the one you love more than anything else in the world, can you hold this secret inside? Can you tell it? If your husband finds out, he will want to know details. He may be forgiving, he may be very unforgiving. He will be frustrated if you are not straight with him, if you try to sugarcoat, obfuscate, or minimize the true nature of your relationship. Conversely, he will be badly hurt by the truth. Things will probably never be the same between you again. (Spoken from the experience of a "forgiving" husband...)

 

I'm really trying to drive this home here - it should scare you how much you are risking, and I say that because of what you have posted about how your husband is your best friend, how you love him more than anything else, how you intend to stay married to him, etc.

 

Go through this thought experiment: consider the possibility that your husband already knows; that he has recently learned about this somehow, and he has been quietly collecting information on you for a while now. Yes, you've probably been careful, but let's set that aside for a moment; I'm saying "what if..." Everyone slips, somehow he has gotten clued in, and now he knows, and he's quietly waiting until he understands as much of the picture as he can.

 

Tomorrow morning, he confronts you. Tell me what you think his reaction will be. Will he just move out right away, needing time to think? Ask you to leave? Will he ask for a divorce? Will he even let you explain yourself? Even if he did, is there anything you could say to make it any better? What will you tell him when he asks you why you did it? What will you tell him when he asks you what is wrong with him?

 

These are not rhetorical questions, I think you should really consider how this might go down. I think you need a scare, and I hope you get it by considering what might happen, instead of getting it by your husband packing his bags and telling you, "I'm outta here."

[whichwayisup]

I think about the OM 80%, of the day. Yes in the morning, yes at night, yes when I am haveing S*X with my husband. And when a week goes by that I can not see him it's almost devastating. However I think if I had more than a week I would become stronger without him. BUt then the week is over I feel strong and go back to work feeling really good about myself. Thinking it's over I'm in control....and as soon as I see him. BAM, I turn into a weak idiot!

 

Ok, you see the problem now, right? You are waaaay too emotionally attached to this man and he has a HUGE affect on you! That is not good for your marriage. Your heart, and your mind is with another man while you're with your husband, in and out of bed. All the love and energy is being poured onto someone else and not your husband. I'm sure HE (your husband) feels your emotional detachment from him, and probably feels 'something' is up with you but just doesn't know what. He MAY even suspect you're having an affair but doesn't want to believe it.

 

DO you want to end this emotional affair with the OM? If the answer is yes, ARE you prepared to tell him goodbye, quit your job and go no contact? Because if you want your marriage to survive, this is what you MUST do.

[bestadvisor]

I think about the OM 80%, of the day. Yes in the morning, yes at night, yes when I am haveing S*X with my husband. And when a week goes by that I can not see him it's almost devastating. However I think if I had more than a week I would become stronger without him. BUt then the week is over I feel strong and go back to work feeling really good about myself. Thinking it's over I'm in control....and as soon as I see him. BAM, I turn into a weak idiot!

 

This sounds very dangerous and I think your husband has the right to know.

[dropdeadlegs]

Your original question was "when have you crossed the line?" IMO you crossed it a long time ago. Cheating doesn't have a clear definition that all people accept, but the best one I can come up with is when a situation changes from being up front and honest. meaning secretive in any way, and involves doing anything that would not be acceptable to your SO.

 

For instance, swingers have sexual relations with others, but that is not cheating because the partners both participate in the lifestyle and are aware of it. That's my opinion anyway. Marriages involving a porn star have similar broad definitions of cheating for obvious reasons.

 

For me and my partner, an emotional affair involving thinking about someone else 80% of the time would be considered cheating because the actual partner is then only receiving 20% of the other partners thoughts and concern. If my partners heart isn't 100% mine, and vice versa, I can't imagine that being considered real, romantic, love. Obviously hand holding or kissing with another would certainly not be acceptable to us.

 

You say that new employment isn't really an option, but if you looked at this from another perspective, I think you might see that you would find a way to exercise that option and make it work. If you were pregnant and your job was for some reason endangering your ability to deliver a healthy baby, I think you would find new employment. Having these feelings for your coworker is endangering your marriage. You must seriously weigh the risk (breakdown of marriage, personal mental well-being) with the positive benefits (income level, seniority, joy in occupation) of your current job. If you think of this "obsession" as a cancerous growth instead of something like benign joy you might be able to see that another job would be the best option.

 

Of course I am assuming that your husband would be hurt and disappointed to know that your thoughts are 80% occupied by another man. If you can share that with him and he finds it acceptable to whatever degree he is comfortable with, well all is good.

 

A word I was unfamiliar with until membership on this site is "limerence." Google the word and you may find a definition of what you are experiencing.

[danis]

Thx, everyone your messages are quite clear. I will try to be strong and make it thru this. I'm just glad I've had someone else to talk to.

[whichwayisup]

I hope you continue to open up and be honest here, let everyone help you, even if you make afew more mistakes...Bottomline if you want it to be over with the OM, you'll do end it...But, if you aren't sure you want it to be over, then separate from your husband, even divorce because your H deserves to be married to someone who only has eyes for him..

[justice]

Stepping over the line, is when one or both parties involved decided to take that first tiny step. It is everything you listed here.

Stepping over the lines is easy, stepping back is not.

Marriage is supposed to be a holy sanction, a vow, a promise, a contract between two people who are supposed to honor and live that commitment. Anything that could possibly break that contract is stepping over that line. My advice? Don't go there, walk, no, RUN away.

[danis]

Give up my H never. I'm not saying its going to be easy giving up the OM either, but that's my decision I just need the strength to do it and that's going to be extremely difficult.

[justice]

Give up my H never. I'm not saying its going to be easy giving up the OM either, but that's my decision I just need the strength to do it and that's going to be extremely difficult.

 

In my opinion, Number ONE priority is to stop making excuses and cut to the chase and initiate NO CONTACT.

You need to decide which is more important to you, your job and the MM that you see there, or your marriage and the promise you made to your husband when you took those vows. So is it your husband and marriage or the MM and the job? Not meaning to be harsh but you have to really decide what you want right now and cut all ties to one or the other.

[whichwayisup]

Do it like ripping off a bandaid. It'll hurt like hell but if you do it fast, the pain will disappear over time...If you slowly detach and take your time ending it with the OM, you'll be prolonging the pain and it will hurt more in bits and pieces...

 

You don't OWE the OM anything as you're not married to him.

[bestadvisor]

Thx, everyone your messages are quite clear. I will try to be strong and make it thru this. I'm just glad I've had someone else to talk to.

 

Deep down, you already knew what the answer to your question was. The quetion to you is:

 

1) Do you think your husband has the right to know...meaning are you going to tell him?

 

2) How exactly are you going to break it off with the OM when you said that you see him virtually every day, you can't control your feelings, and you got "weak" when you see him?

[danis]

A word I was unfamiliar with until membership on this site is "limerence." Google the word and you may find a definition of what you are experiencing.

 

Wow, I did look that up and was shocked at what I read. I fall under all those categories and have all those symptoms. Does that mean anything different as to how I should go about solving my problem.

 

Should I seriously consider therapy or just go ahead with the NC?

[herenow]

Early on in MC I asked our therapist what would happen if either of us found ourselves attracted to another person. Her advice was to be honest. She said that coming clean about any type of attraction would nip an affair in the bud. Part of the appeal of another person is the mystery and excitement that being with that person brings. Once you have told your spouse, that excitement is often gone.

 

If you share what you are feeling with your husband, it may open the door to fixing your marriage. If you are honest now, you can begin to repair. If you wait until it goes any further, you may go too far and eventually lose your husband.