nottoobright Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 this is jim nottoobrights husband and I read all the posts. did anyone read my side of the story with the mindset that I was telling it the way I remember it? did everyone just felt sorry for nottoobright because she told her side first? Everyone tells her to leave me but nobody sees I was tried to be honest with her from the very start? read my post again like the shoe was on your foot. I was really caused a lot of damage by the ex and nottoobright was the last person I wanted to hurt. she is mad all the time, if I tell her I didn't meant for it to happen she gets mad, if I tell her I "f*cked" the ex because I must have wanted to f*ck her, she gets mad at me for that too. I am wrong no matter what way I turn. If everyone is going to say she should leave me then everyone should look at my post and see how I wass feeling at a bad time in my life too. I highlighted my strong points to show how 'f*cked up" I really was. My side of the story I am going to tell this as I viewed it, I am telling it as it happened, not through hind-sight. When I met "nottobright" I had recently divorced (approx. 9 months earlier) the last year of the marriage was brutal, my ex-wife had decided that I was the source of her misery, and I had to pay there was nearly a year of constant fighting and her cheating. When me and "nottoobright" met the first time we were at our kids band practice waiting for it to end, (she was with her husband as well), we all talked nothing major just talking. The next time I saw her was at a high school football game a few weeks later, she was with a mutual friend. I found out that she and her husband had split up and were getting a divorce. She found out her husband had a boyfiend and she left him. We talked most of the game and as we were leaving another band mom had stoped me to talk, "nottoo bright" left before I could get her number. Me and my kids rushed to the car and drove through the parking lot to try find her, but no luck. Luckily she asked the mutual friend my name and called me the next day to invite me out to coffee. I accepted and we went to a local resturant where we talked for hours, after a while we left and ended up in a wal-mart parking lot discussing everything from kids to ex's to sex. She had spent 12 years with her husband and I was telling her the things to be careful of since she was new to dating. She had been told by the mutual friend that I had herpes and ask if that was true, I told her yes, and that I hadn't had an outbreak in a fews years but yes I do have it. I told her my ex-wife had it too. I also informed her that me and me ex might end up getting back together, and that we were still somewhat sexually active. After hours of talking we decided to go to a local night club, things heated up a bit, more talking. "Nottoobright got tipsy and a good bit of "necking" went on . We ended up at my house that night, and ended up having sex, (I did use a condom to protect us), she spent the night. She says it was a few weeks later, but I don't think it was that long after when she told me that if I have sex with anyone else, not to come back to her for sex the very next day, I was thinking it was that morning but anyway. Shortly after she had said that, I had spent the day with her at her house, I had reminded her that she told me that. I was really enjoying spending time with her and was looking forward to getting to know her better but, I was going to honor her request that if I slept with someone else I wouldn't sleep with her the next day. She told me that she didnt mean dont come back, that she meant dont come back the VERY next day. Several weeks later we were in her back yard having a similar talk, when she told me that if I do have sex with anyone, not to tell her, that she didnt want to know. I then told her then don't ask, because I would tell her the truth. she said then lie and I told her no, if you ask, I will tell you the truth. Though I didn't tell her at this point, I had been sexually active with my ex-wife during this time we had been seeing each other. She "dumped" me several times, and then called me back saying I'm sorry, I didnt mean it, I was jealous. One evening my ex had invited me over for dinner, this was one of those times (not that it matters but dinner was all we did). "Nottoobright called me and left a message saying that either she or my ex deserved my undivided attention and ended it. There were other times as well, once at a band concert that our kids were in I sat with my ex-wife instead of "nottoobright", after the concert my ex wanted me to follow her back to her place (somthing to do with the kids but I dont remember exactly what clothes ,books somthing). Another time at walmart "nottoobright" had wanted to come over and I told her not tonight I was either really tired or sick(I dont remember). My ex-wife had called and wanted me to meet her at wal-mart I dont remember the reason, but I needed to get some oil for my truck anyway so I agreed. We met up at wal-mart, as we were walking in I bumped into "nottoobright" and her feelings were pretty badly hurt. Roughly 3-4 months had gone by since"nottoobright" and I went out the first time, We had spent the evening out with the kids (it was nottoobright's birthday). We said our good nights at the resturaunt. Mye ex ended up coming over after work, and spent the night, she often came by after work and spent the night but most of the time she just slept, and yes, we had sex. The following night "nottoobright" came over looking hurt and mad, she ask me did I "f*ck her" last night? My responce was simple," as a matter of, I did.". I realized then that I had just severly hurt the one person that I didn't want to hurt more that any one else, but at least I was honest. She broke it off with me again, I could not have faulted her if she never spoke to me again, a few days past and she came back to me again (god only knows why) There are other issues, Thanksgiving and Christmas, after she had found out I had sex with my ex-wife, I was trying to think of my kids and opted to have the ex-wife (the kids mother) over for those holidays instead of having "nottobright" over. There were numerous times the ex would come over and start fights and finally I ended up calling the law to get her to leave, I would usually tell the officer I dont want her arrested, I just want her to leave.. Roughly 6 months after we started seeing each other "nottoobright" moved in with me. My ex started doing more extreme things from bad mouthing "nottoobright" to the kids, to breaking into the house and leaving things or destroying things. finding our animals dead, department of children services called on lies, ect...the list is long. About 3 or 4 monthes later "nottoobright" and I started having fights, about the cheating. She wanted to get married and was pushing pretty hard, finally around 4 months later we got married. The fights have gotten progressivly worse. There has been several times that "nottoobright" promised that the fighting was done, but it still keeps on. Now it is daily sometimes lasting the entire day from the time I wake in the morning until 2 to 3 am. Around the time we got married I also pushed the child support to childsupport services when they took over the collections the ex-wife filled a batch of bogous comptempt of court charges against me, which has cost more in laywer fees than she owes in back support in the $10,000.00 range which only adds problems. There is still more to my side, but this is a start... You can see i tried to be honest, I failed but I tried. I want nottoobright to be happy and let go of it to be in the past where it belongs. If she moves it will hurt my kids but I still want her to be happy. And by the way I won't go back to the ex wife if nottoobright leaves cause too much damage has been caused to me and my kids.
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 She didn't see your intention, nor did she hear your words - she watched your actions. What she saw was a man initiating and continuing a relationship with her. I can understand why she kept coming back to you. It was because she wanted a serious relationship with you. What I don't understand is why you kept taking her back, when it is blatantly apparent that you did not want a serious relationship with her, much less did you want to end up married. Why didn't you cut her loose before it went too far?
lostboy60645 Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 With all due respect, and I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but y'all need some help. It seems that while your ex is always going to be involved in your life, she has some really f'd up issues and you need to draw some clear boundaries, particularly if you want your current marriage to work. That means no more sex with the ex, and full disclosure to your current wife. Secondly and equally if not more important, it seems you and NTB would do a great service to yourselves and your kids if you got some individual counseling in ADDITION TO marriage counseling. Why individual counseling for you? I'm glad you asked. You can't control how NTB fights. You can't control how your ex wife behaves. You're having a hard time with both of them. Why not try to control the variable that you CAN control--the way YOU interact with them. Talking with an IC will help you gain perspective on your ex's motivations, NTB's issues, and your own issues. You'll also likely work on how you can optimize yourself to have the best relationship with NTB and the best interaction with your ex. Sorry things are so messed up. Take it from someone who's destroyed two marriages. The investment in the counseling is definitely cheaper than a 2nd divorce and/or bankruptcy. lostboy60645 http://www.livingsobriety.blogspot.com
Ladyjane14 Posted August 30, 2007 Posted August 30, 2007 I'm in agreement with Lostboy... You two need some professional help. I realize that money is an issue, but alot of health insurance companies are offering benefits these days on counseling. Give your member services number a call and find out where you stand on that. Anyway, you two DO NOT have appropriate empathy for one another at this time. I think that's pretty obvious. Laura, I hope you'll forgive me for saying it.... but you're coming off as a "big ole sack 'o crazy" due to the drama factor. The guy can't win with you. You don't like it when he's honest and you don't like it when he's dishonest. You BOTH got cheated on in your previous marriages, and you BOTH know how confused and messed up a betrayed spouse feels. He was married to that woman for 17 years and he loved her. Waywards aren't the only ones who bounce back and forth on their decision to end the marriage. Betrayed spouses do it too... because they WANT so badly sometimes to go back in time and somehow 'fix' the relationship, and yet as time progresses they begin to see that in some instances it cannot be "fixed". This truth reveals itself little by little, not all at once... hence the sense of emotional turmoil and confusion. But you two didn't WAIT for "little by little", you opted on "all at once". You didn't give each other time to resolve your feelings about your previous marriages. You bypassed casual dating and went directly to commitment. And you BOTH are guilty of that. Lucrezia brought up and interesting point about observing actions rather than relying totally upon words, and I agree with her. But Laura... what are YOUR actions? Are you getting help for your psychiatric issues. "Cutting" is NOT normal. From Jim's perspective, it's watching someone you love deliberately hurt themselves. And... I can see how dealing with someone who is self-destructive would cause emotional distancing. His emotional investment is not safe with you in that case, because when you're willing to harm yourself, you're willing to harm the 'couple entity'. He's not some kind of knight in shining armor, here to solve all your issues, Laura. You've got to step up to the plate and solve them from the inside out. In short, I think you asked too much of this guy too soon. And now you're married, you love each other, but you've got all this water under the bridge from having rushed the relationship. Now, to Jim I say.... have some sensitivity for pete's sake. Laura's been cheated on TWICE here. She's got some pretty obvious self-esteem issues, and instead of offering her reassurance, you're pouring gasoline on the smoldering embers of her insecurity. Put your ex-wife out of your home. She's lurking there like a ghost, and stinking up the joint. Make your home a HAVEN... a safe place for your wife and your blended family. That's manning up and taking on a leadership role within your household. You CHOSE to marry an emotionally fragile woman. You made a decision to do that. Now, you need to step up to the plate and truly fulfill your commitment to that decision. Anything you do half-assed can only come out half-assed, right? Your commitment to the marriage needs to be 100%. And it doesn't really matter at this point who was right and who was wrong. Bottom line... your marriage is in trouble and it's time for BOTH of you to either sh*t or get off the pot if you want to save it. That means the "he said / she said" crap has to STOP. It is perfectly conceivable that you two could save your marriage. But in order to do that, you have to MUTUALLY forgive each other 100%. You have to "clean the slate" and remind yourselves DAILY that you chose forgiveness, commitment, and to love each other actively. Then, you have to take the time to LEARN each other. You were married to your ex for 17 years. But this woman is NOT that woman. THIS one's got a different set of needs, wants, desires, issues. You need to know what they are, just as she needs to know yours. You can't paint each other with the same brush you used for your last partner. You can't make assumptions about one another. For example, I'm wondering how you and Laura's ex-husband differ in communication techniques when discussing emotional issues. (????) She's fresh off a divorce, just like you. She was accustomed to another man's communication style, just as you were accustomed to your ex-wife's. If, say, her ex was the talkative sort, and you're a bit more tight-lipped, she's probably spending an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out what's going on in your head. Anyway, I would suggest to both of you that you do what you can to line up counseling. Laura's self-destructive "cutting" needs to be resolved first and foremost though if you get into budgeting constraints. I can't imagine how you'll resolve ANYTHING until this is addressed. It's indicative of underlying problems that will result in the relationship's failure before you even get started repairing it. While you're lining that up... read through a copy of The Five Love Languages by Chapman with an eye toward learning more about each other, identifying emotional needs etc. And... this is a priority... read through a copy of Love Busters by Harley. You can get an overview right now by reading through the Basic Concepts section at his marriagebuilders website. You two need to start communicating in a more healthy way. You need to STOP contributing to further damage of the marriage, and you need to stop that behavior TODAY. By implementing Harley's rules of communication, (refraining from love-busting), you can take immediate control of yourselves and stop inflicting daily damage on your partner. You two either love each other or you don't. If you do... put your money where your mouth is and ACT like it. And if you don't... get the hell away from one another. Just that simple. All this drama isn't good for the kids.
Author nottoobright Posted August 31, 2007 Author Posted August 31, 2007 this is Jim again. I am glad to read from ladyjanes post. You are the first person who things I am right. NTB does act like a big old sack of crazy. All I did was have some sex with a woman that I was slept with for over 17 years. It isnt my fault she couldn't see me being honest with her. I am sorry she got her feelings hurt. I know what it was like when I was watching my best freind have sex with my wife (the ex) right in front of me. It was hard when she (the ex) asked me if she could sleep with my freind and it was hard asking him if he would help me save my marraige by doing that favor for me but I got over it for the sake of my marraige. NTB ex husband was a jerk to her. It doesn't real matteer how I talk to her, he has nothing to do with it. She has not seen him in two years. It is crazy that laura is cutting herself, she started to do it when she was 14 and got raped by two 20 years old guys. it is time she has to stop it. I catch her doing it late late at night and she won't stop. sometimes she does it 2 times a week and others times she goes months without doin it. One time I gave her back the razor blade and said goe ahead and do it. the other thing is she got a lot of money from her divorce, alot, alot of money but she won't spend it on things we needed. She pays for things but acts like it was a loan. I ask her to pay for my baby girls teeth to be take care of and next thing I know she wants me to pay the money back. My paycheck is enough for my mortgage and the credit card bills. she says that they aint her bills cause I had them before I met her but if we are a couple then she should help me pay foir them. She pays the utilities, cars insurance and food and that is all. She is happy to buy things for my kids but she buys what she wants to buy but not the stuff they need and then she gets mad when my kids steal her kids stuff because they don't have the same stuff her kids have. Anyway I glad someone saw things from my perspective. I hope NTB reads it soon.
whichwayisup Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 It is crazy that laura is cutting herself, she started to do it when she was 14 and got raped by two 20 years old guys. it is time she has to stop it. I catch her doing it late late at night and she won't stop. sometimes she does it 2 times a week and others times she goes months without doin it. One time I gave her back the razor blade and said goe ahead and do it. Is she seeking therapy for this stuff? If not, please encourage her to get help. Cutting is serious enough, and obviously she has some past and recent issues that she needs to deal with..Cutting is her escape, a way to make herself feel better, and focus the pain somewhere else.
annabelle75 Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 I'm not necessarily siding with you, but I don't think you are some horrific monster either. It sounds like you tried to be pretty upfront with her and she just chose to hear what she wanted to hear. I think you both need alot of couseling if you want this marriage to work. You both need to learn what a marriage is suppose to be about. She also needs to get help for her cutting and come to terms with the fact that the day she chose to marry you, knowing what she did, she lost the right to continue to hold it against you. I know alot of people here won't agree with me, but it was something I was told by two different marriage counselors. At the time I didn't want to hear it, but I know realize they were right. If you had continued to cheat on her after you married it would be a whole other story, but that isn't the case here. The only person stopping her from forgiving you and moving on is her.
Ladyjane14 Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 This can't be about who's right and who's wrong, Jim. That's the path leading directly to marital destruction... because when one of you wins, the other one loses. It's kind of like playing tennis. Either you're on opposing sides of the net or you're on the same side together as a TEAM. Neither of you may ever DEFEAT the other without damaging the 'couple entity'. I think it's obvious that Laura's feeling insecure and anxious... but make no mistake, you're FEEDING her fears when you take up an adversarial position with her. That's why she's flipping out when you get into disagreements. To be honest, if I was feeling as worried on the inside as she feels, I'd have packed my junk and left by now. It's just so hard to feel that anxious all the time. It takes alot out of a person. It saps their strength and energy. All I did was have some sex with a woman that I was slept with for over 17 years. It isnt my fault she couldn't see me being honest with her. I am sorry she got her feelings hurt. I think this is another manifestation of her fears, to not want to look at something she must've found very threatening and hurtful to the self-esteem. It's understandable. Sometimes people do that when they're scared. The thing to remember though... is that it's water under the bridge now. You need to be dealing with each other honestly, but without brutality. IOW, you tell the truth ALWAYS, but you talk with her earnestly and in a non-threatening manner. I know what it was like when I was watching my best freind have sex with my wife (the ex) right in front of me. It was hard when she (the ex) asked me if she could sleep with my freind and it was hard asking him if he would help me save my marraige by doing that favor for me but I got over it for the sake of my marraige. Dude. Friends don't f*ck your wife. Not even if you ask them to. Get better friends. (Oh... and a wife who wants to f*ck your friends, isn't your friend either. Damn.) NTB ex husband was a jerk to her. It doesn't real matteer how I talk to her, he has nothing to do with it. She has not seen him in two years. Her husband's communication style is relevant if it differs from yours because she lived with him for a long time. She became accustomed to his style, and depending on the strength of her male role models growing up, he may have had a strong influence on her expectations in communicating her feelings to men. It is crazy that laura is cutting herself, she started to do it when she was 14 and got raped by two 20 years old guys. it is time she has to stop it. I catch her doing it late late at night and she won't stop. sometimes she does it 2 times a week and others times she goes months without doin it. One time I gave her back the razor blade and said goe ahead and do it. This is very sad. It's another manifestation of the worried and stressful feelings she has inside. You cannot fix this for her... but taunting her will NOT help her feel stronger. I think if I were living with someone who had a self-destructive manifestation of anxiety, I might feel somewhat manipulated or controlled by it. But... it's important to focus on the fact that this has NOTHING to do with you. It was going on for many years before you met her. This is her issue and she has to be the one to resolve it. That said, what you CAN do is to provide a safe haven for her while she works it out. It's soooo much easier to get through your issues when you feel loved, supported, and valued. You're not as helpless in this as you probably feel, because even though you can't solve somebody else's problem for them, you can contribute substantially to providing parameters that will encourage success. the other thing is she got a lot of money from her divorce, alot, alot of money but she won't spend it on things we needed. She pays for things but acts like it was a loan. I ask her to pay for my baby girls teeth to be take care of and next thing I know she wants me to pay the money back. My paycheck is enough for my mortgage and the credit card bills. she says that they aint her bills cause I had them before I met her but if we are a couple then she should help me pay foir them. She pays the utilities, cars insurance and food and that is all. She is happy to buy things for my kids but she buys what she wants to buy but not the stuff they need and then she gets mad when my kids steal her kids stuff because they don't have the same stuff her kids have. The way couples deal with money issues varies from couple to couple. The way you handled the finances in your last marriage is unlikely to work in this one. Laura's money is just that... Laura's. She is at NO obligation to share it with you. In fact, I think it's increasing her doubts about your commitment to the marriage because it provides motive for her insecurities. IOW, when you ask her for money, she worries that maybe you don't love her for just herself. Your best bet is to NOT take any money from her that's not a legitimate part of her contribution to the family budget. This is an issue which is currently exacerbating her insecurities because underneath it all, she's not too sure you REALLY love her. Her "stinking-thinker" is telling her that you married her for maid service, sex, and money. And because she's sooooo worried, her "stinking-thinker" has better access to her brain-space than usual. Call me sentimental... but based on Laura's posts, I think ... 1. You've certainly had opportunity to go back to your ex if that's what you wanted. You didn't. 2. You stayed with your last wife for 17 years and apparently did some absolutely ABSURD things in attempting to keep her. It would seem you have the potential to be steadfast within a relationship. 3. She's has INSISTED through it all that she loves you. So she must see something lovable despite all the problems. Truly though, you're at the 'make-it-or-break-it' point. You're going to HAVE to step up to the plate and bring that "steadfast" sense of commitment to her. The ex-wife needs to be put out of your home. And you're going to have to bring ALOT more sensitivity into your communications process. Further, the money issue needs resolution. I would suggest that you two get a consultation with a financial planner and consider down-sizing your budget if necessary. There's a handy tool called POJA at marriagebuilders you can use in order to work out a better financial agreement. If you type into your browser "the policy of joint agreement, marriagebuilders" you'll find it. POJA calls for "enthusiastic" agreement. You'd continue to discuss, even if it were over a period of time, until you're both satisfied. Works miracles. Really. Meantime, I think you'd do well to pay her back whatever she's spent that's above and beyond. This is one source of insecurity that you CAN alleviate. Consider writing her up a lien on the home equity if nothing else. But make sure she knows you LOVE HER for who she is. To be honest, there's been quite a few people here who think she'd be better off to end the marriage and move on. Sadly, I think maybe they're right about that. ... because her health and welfare is dependent upon CHANGE. And that means with you or without you. If the two of you can get together and create a safe environment for her, you've got a fighting chance. If not... I'm sorry, but I don't see how the marriage will withstand the strain.
LakesideDream Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 Jim, From an "old" (57) mans point of view. No you are probably not crazy, just self centered. That being said: A man does not sleep with a second person while he's married to another. It's just not right. Sugar coat it anyway you want, it's just not right. Not right for you, me, anyone. It doesen't matter if the relationship started decades earlier of not. You were/are married and as long as that's true you should keep it in your pants. A man doesent covet his spouses money either. Good for Laura, she received money from her previous husband. That money belongs to her and her children. She is under no obligation to pay your bills with it. You should be man enough to meet your own financial obligations. If you can't with one job, get another, and a third if necessary. Don't ask Laura to be your mommie and fix your mess ups and shortcomings. In fact in a chaotic situation like the two of you have shared she would be a fool to do so. Your childrens problem belong to you and your ex wife. Own them. Don't expect someone else to bail you out. Both of you are guilty of name calling, and other various marital felonies. You need to stop it, both of you. My opinion.. for what it's worth is that you Jim, and Laura need to take a break. Six months might be long enough, a year better. In that time both of you should be celabit. No sex. No romantic relationships or liasons. Give yourselves time to even out your day to day lives and to begin making choices for yourselves, without the pressure of being together. If you love each other you will find ways to work it out when the period is up. If one or the other wants "out", they already will be out, living a life they can handle. Neither of you are teenagers, but you both are acting like it. This isn't leaving notes in lockers, and fooling around with lotsa girls for fun. This is real life, the choices you make affect you, your spouse, both your children, possibly forever. Both of you need to begin taking responsibility for your own actions.
New_Wife Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 Ladyjane, Your posts hit so hard inside me - you can't know. I'm completely unrelated to Laura & Jim, buy my husband and I have some issues that fall smack dab into a lot of what you said. What I'm missing from the posts I've read from either Lauura or Jim is ownership. They're both great at pointing the finger at the other one's mistakes - but not so good at seeing their own personal part in the messes. That's about as far as my helpfulness on this topic goes - as my husband and I are in the midst of counseling-palooza - trying to get a handle on quite a few of the things you wrote about. In any event, thank you to you (and the other folks who've written from experience and the heart in this thread). You posted to one couple, but I bet I'm not the only part of other couple's that may benefit from this thread.
bish Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 I was going to honor her request that if I slept with someone else I wouldn't sleep with her the next day. She told me that she didnt mean dont come back, that she meant dont come back the VERY next day. Several weeks later we were in her back yard having a similar talk, when she told me that if I do have sex with anyone, not to tell her, that she didnt want to know. I then told her then don't ask, because I would tell her the truth. she said then lie and I told her no, if you ask, I will tell you the truth. Though I didn't tell her at this point, I had been sexually active with my ex-wife during this time we had been seeing each other. blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda. First really, I don't know why she would say such things. Its clear she didn't want you to have sex with anyone else. But you saw this as a green light to say to yourself, "ok cool...I can screw anyone I want...as long as I don't tell or come back the next day, its all good". But I'll digress because at this point you don't have a committment...but come on man...its obvious she didn't want you having sex with someone else. You should have been a man and said, "well we don't have a committment" She "dumped" me several times, and then called me back saying I'm sorry, I didnt mean it, I was jealous. Well of course she was....geez. If someone has eyes for you and you f#ck someone else...what do you expect? Jealousy in cases like this are perfectly reasonable. Roughly 3-4 months had gone by since"nottoobright" and I went out the first time, We had spent the evening out with the kids (it was nottoobright's birthday). We said our good nights at the resturaunt. Mye ex ended up coming over after work, and spent the night, she often came by after work and spent the night but most of the time she just slept, and yes, we had sex. What you need to do is make up your damn mind. You are playing with this NTB's feelings. The following night "nottoobright" came over looking hurt and mad, she ask me did I "f*ck her" last night? My responce was simple," as a matter of, I did.". As a matter of fact you did? That was your response to her? So far you are telling "your side" of the story and its biting you in the ass. So far everyone is still right to tell NTB to leave you. I don't know what the hell you thought you'd accomplish by telling your side of the story if this is really the way you are. I realized then that I had just severly hurt the one person that I didn't want to hurt more that any one else, but at least I was honest. Honest is one thing...being an insensitive creep while being honest is another. She broke it off with me again, I could not have faulted her if she never spoke to me again, a few days past and she came back to me again (god only knows why) Me neither. Its starting to look like her own fault now, but still doesn't mitigate what you are doing to her. My ex started doing more extreme things from bad mouthing "nottoobright" to the kids, to breaking into the house and leaving things or destroying things. finding our animals dead, department of children services called on lies, ect...the list is long. About 3 or 4 monthes later "nottoobright" and I started having fights, about the cheating. She wanted to get married and was pushing pretty hard, finally around 4 months later we got married. The fights have gotten progressivly worse. There has been several times that "nottoobright" promised that the fighting was done, but it still keeps on. Well thats because you keep f#cking her over. But here again...she now should have known better than to get involved with you. There is still more to my side, but this is a start... Well so far your "side" isn't helping your cause. It just confirms the reasons we told her she should leave you. You can see i tried to be honest, I failed but I tried. Charles Manson was honest too. Ya, you were honest, but you were a jerk about it. But like you said, I have no idea why this woman wanted you back each time you f#cked her over. I want nottoobright to be happy and let go of it to be in the past where it belongs. Only problem..your past seems to repeat itself...and if you are still in contact with your ex and like having sex with her so much...you WILL stick your vienna sausage in her again. Things don't stay in the past with people like you. If she moves it will hurt my kids but I still want her to be happy. And by the way I won't go back to the ex wife if nottoobright leaves cause too much damage has been caused to me and my kids. Ya...sure you won't Well...that was YOUR side of the story alright....sorry man...it didn't help your cause...in my opinion it only hurt it. My advice still stands...NTB needs to leave you.
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