am i wrong for being upset?

[jcster]

You were upset she didn't want to tlak to you when you wanted to resolve things, so you went and checked up on her. Although it wasn't a smart thing to do, it wasn't a criminal offense either. No need to keep pretending.

 

From the original post, it sounds like it was a VERY SMART thing to do. It's also very much beside the point.

 

You didn't like seeing her having a good time while you were so upset and you didn't like her reaction to you intruding on her night. Its understandable on both sides. If I were you I would let it go unless you want to push this into being a deal breaker type situation. You both reacted poorly to the situation.

 

Ok, I'm flabbergasted. I'm going to assume that you've never been married. No, it's not understandable. Quite frankly, if this keeps up, she's going to find herself single and then she can go out whenever she wants. This is deal breaking behavior, and her married friend is a pretty crappy one if she is leading her into this.

 

You may think... "Oh, Im mad and I have a right to do whatever", but your killing a piece of your relationship when you do that crap.

 

Absolutely. Relationships rarely die a clean death. Usually it's the 1000 tiny cuts that accumulate and destroy it. Old fights can go away, if they're resolved and both people grow from them. But, when one or both parties decide to embark on pointedly hurtful, reactive behavior - those insults never heal - they just get buried to arise again the next time it happens. If you truly love someone - you would NEVER want to hurt them that way. When I was engaged, I was so freaking happy about it that I would rather have cut my hand off than hurt my fiance that way. Selfishness and vindictiveness are poison to a relationship.

[sb129]

In my book, it is not ok for me to go to the bar alone or with a girlfriend, it's asking for trouble. Its not ok to get free drinks from guys, and to let them hit on me when you're not around.

Its not ok to take my ring off even if I am red mad at you.

I'd be furious too ...

 

This is how I feel. I know my BF would be angry with me if I did this.

 

 

Theres fighting fair and theres fighting mean.

Fighting fair means dealing with the topic at hand, trying not to let it escalate beyond that and not flinging all kind of inflammatory behaviour into the argument (such as deliberately doing something that would annoy/hurt your SO- whether they find out or not)

 

I know its easier said than done, but I really really try to follow this rule, and try to resolve an argument before someone storms out etc etc.

(Just to let you know- this is a new-ish sb129 behaviour pattern. Its the way Wonderboy fights, but its working well so far.)

 

If I ever get an engagement ring, I will be showing it off to the world and its mother!!!

[ls707]

sorry if i made it sound like i was done with shopping... i still had things to buy and no more room in my car. hence having to drop off stuff to finish buying junk to get things done before our trip. had no intention of bothering anyone. we really don't have the kind of relationship where "you're not allowed to see me when i leave for girl time" so i didn't see anything wrong with letting her know to bring in the stuff. also, if i was trying to be a pain or interrupt, i'd have gone there way WAY earlier instead of at the zero hour!

 

anyway, and her friend is 40, married, 3 kids. her husband is gone the majority of the week. goes where she wants when she wants, no one to answer to or be considerate of. (minus her 3 children that is! ) i get the feeling she's been looking for a drinking buddy... because since last week she's been bugging her to go out to the bars 4 times since a week ago. and after the few conversations that i've had with my fiance' it seems shes on the prowl if you get my drift.

 

just to play the devil's advocate.. say yes i was coming into the party to see what's up.... i still would like to hear your input on if you think its ok for an engaged woman to sit at a bar and carry on with guys that are trying to pick them up... and to sit and take drinks from guys that are after only one thing... are you saying that's ok?

 

Design1 in one way i understand what annabelle and Starlite are trying to say. You kinda walked in on em, it wouldve been polite to call first.

 

but if you have called you would have not discovered the ring being off. She wouldve obviously put it back on.

 

I dont know about you man, but if I gave a woman a ring which is a token of my love and my commitment to her for the long haul, and she took it off just cuz we had a fight?!?! and was at a bar with a friend and some dude with out the said ring, thats a big red flag.

 

i dont know, from where i stand the former detail seems to be rather masked by the latter detail.

[annabelle75]

Ok, I'm flabbergasted. I'm going to assume that you've never been married. No, it's not understandable. Quite frankly, if this keeps up, she's going to find herself single and then she can go out whenever she wants. This is deal breaking behavior, and her married friend is a pretty crappy one if she is leading her into this.

 

Married for eight years to a man who cheated on me with girls he picked up at bars. Ironic, eh?

 

I'm sorry but I am not going to call out the lynch mob and tell him to end a relationship based on the spotty incomplete story he has given us thus far. I'm sure her side of the story is very different from what he has told us, and usually the truth lies some where in between.

[mental_traveller]

Well this is pretty clear cut - she was deceiving both you and the guy at the bar. Totally out of line from just a girlfriend, let alone a fiancee. Her friend was a total liar too.

 

Sorry to tell you this but your engagement is over. If you want a faithful wife then it's going to have to be someone other than this woman.

 

Just get your phone, call her and break it off. Don't speak to her again or listen to any pleading, it will just be lies designed to trick you and play on your weak points. You deserve better than this - get rid of her and move on as best you can.

 

Oh and as for potential "explanations" for her behaviour - no matter that they had a fight, it is not acceptable to take the ring off and then go to a ladies night and get hit on by guys, then have her friend lie about a complete stranger (how dare they involve him in their deceit??) in order to cover up.

 

If she was just mad at him and had no bad intentions, she would have taken the ring off *in front of him*, or at least told him about that. That's what an honest person who was genuinely angry would do. Taking off a ring secretly, at a ladies bar, then letting guys hit on her and buy her & the friend (out without her man either) drinks, sends off the message "I am single and ready to be picked up" and is dealbreaking behaviour.

 

As for the truly absurd comment "they aren't married yet", that makes no difference at all. This behaviour is a dealbreaker whether you are married or have been dating for 2 months. There is no honest explanation for it at all, it's clearly deceit & lies.

[starlite]

Thats not very bright...

 

You may think... "Oh, Im mad and I have a right to do whatever", but your killing a piece of your relationship when you do that crap.

 

You take down the pictures... he is going to remember that forever... you cant take that action back. Next time you fight... he's just one step further out the door. I would have told you to keep them down, and probably asked for a pair of scissors to cut you out of them.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Well thank goodness i'm not dating you. Pictures are so easy to put back up. I was so upset that night! He had left to stay at a friends and I couldnt sit there alone and look at our 'happy' pictures all night long. He isnt the type to dwell on something so trivial, as most men i'm sure wouldnt as well.

 

As for Design...I guess you have to make a decision. Stay with her, or break of your engagement. I do think it is crappy that she isnt showing ANY sympathy for your end and thinks everything she did was just right. I think you both were a bit in the wrong here. Now it is up to the two of you to decide if you can get past it.

 

Do i think this was the end all of the relationship? No. But I'm not you. You have some thinking to do. I wish you lots of luck!

[Cobra_X30]

Well thank goodness i'm not dating you. Pictures are so easy to put back up. I was so upset that night! He had left to stay at a friends and I couldnt sit there alone and look at our 'happy' pictures all night long. He isnt the type to dwell on something so trivial, as most men i'm sure wouldnt as well.

 

As for Design...I guess you have to make a decision. Stay with her, or break of your engagement. I do think it is crappy that she isnt showing ANY sympathy for your end and thinks everything she did was just right. I think you both were a bit in the wrong here. Now it is up to the two of you to decide if you can get past it.

 

Do i think this was the end all of the relationship? No. But I'm not you. You have some thinking to do. I wish you lots of luck!

 

LOL... Yes you are lucky not to be dating me!

 

Its the symbolism... its like taking the ring off, and yes it depends on the context. When you do something like that you kill a tiny piece of your relationship... that scar doesnt go away. Why, because your showing doubt... I'm not going to be in a relationship with someone who doubts that it will work. It isnt the hokey pokey... You have to be all in, and ready to work at it. It sounds like maybe you were just a little angry and wanted to hurt his feelings. Ok, lets say mission accomplished... what do you win?

 

Does that make any sense?

[Krytellan]

I have to agree with starlite. You went to that bar for no reason other than to check up on her. Anything that is used as a "reason" to be there was nothing more than a situation created by you to be able to "check up" on her.

 

Something about your posting tells me that maybe you are a controlling person and what you saw was a backlash of that. I'm not going to say she was in the right, but I know enough to know that there is only one side being told that there are many things we're not getting.

 

Needing to check up on her at the bar and expecting that all plans she makes with others should be cleared with you first are in fact signs of a controlling person. Maybe work on accepting that as a truth within yourself and let everything else follow.

[starlite]

LOL... Yes you are lucky not to be dating me!

 

Its the symbolism... its like taking the ring off, and yes it depends on the context. When you do something like that you kill a tiny piece of your relationship... that scar doesnt go away. Why, because your showing doubt... I'm not going to be in a relationship with someone who doubts that it will work. It isnt the hokey pokey... You have to be all in, and ready to work at it. It sounds like maybe you were just a little angry and wanted to hurt his feelings. Ok, lets say mission accomplished... what do you win?

 

Does that make any sense?

 

What you are saying does make sense...yes! My bf, although very bright and smart or however you want to word it, he is not that deep I guess you could say. He knew I was upset. I actually didnt do it to upset him, i did it so that i didnt spend the whole night upsetting myself looking at all the pictures. It wasnt a matter of winning..and i dont agree that it is anything like taking off an engagement ring. But what you said does make sense.

 

Krytellan- There is definately an air of control within his post and beliefs, like what you said with getting "approval" before going out. They live together, enough said. Last night my bf went to the gym, when he was done he called and said "so and so just called, I'm going to go over there and maybe go get a few drinks." No approval needed, thanks for letting me know. Then this morning my girlfriend emails me "Wanna go to Jess's after work." I replied "Yes". I called my bf and told him "I'm going to Jess's after work". Simple as that.

 

Like i said before, i think you both had 'wrong' actions here...now you just have to decide as to whether or not this is forgivable and if you want to stay.

[Cobra_X30]

What you are saying does make sense...yes! My bf, although very bright and smart or however you want to word it, he is not that deep I guess you could say. He knew I was upset. I actually didnt do it to upset him, i did it so that i didnt spend the whole night upsetting myself looking at all the pictures. It wasnt a matter of winning..and i dont agree that it is anything like taking off an engagement ring. But what you said does make sense.

 

Not that deep? LOL... thats awesome!

 

I'm glad you understand what I was saying... cause I really started to ramble there for a minute! Anyway, its just something to consider when your argueing and fighting.

[design1]

thanks everyone for your input! i really appreciate both sides of the fence.

 

like i said, "one person's controlling is another person's courtesy." if you guys have an open relationship that you and your boyfriend just make plans all the time/part of the time and don't make sure the other doesn't have something on their mind, etc.... that's fine and nothing saying that's wrong. that works for the both of you, great. also, there's nothing wrong with the other side of it either in being polite and checking with each other either. kind of a difference of dating/ living together, or being married or basically married. like i said, all the guys that i work with or been friends with... any time ANY plans are talked about between anyone, response is ALWAYS let me check with the wife/gf first and i'll let you know. don't see that as being wrong.

 

as i stated before, i don't consider that only one person is to blame. i know i'm not perfect, i make mistakes, say things wrong, argue, etc.

 

and i'm guilty of wanting her attention... and sometimes that causes friction because like i said i'm assuming we're making plans. call that controlling if you like. i don't see it that way. my desire to be around my "best friend" doesn't register to "me" as controlling. and my assumption that being engaged the "our" plans is the norm... seems normal to me. that being said... if she'd like to go to dinner with a gf or check out some chickflick or go purse shopping... i 100% don't have a problem with it. when she goes to dinner with the girls from work, i say have fun and be careful, etc. i'm even envited 1/2 the time and i just tell her to go ahead and go by herself to have girl time. i'd just like some what i call common courtesey if she has something else she'd like to do and let me know prior to making plans... again not to tell her no, but so i have time i can line something up with a friend of mine, etc. i do it for her, i guess i feel i'm entitled to the same. and the 2nd part of the common courtesy falls into not disrespecting me going out to a bar at 9 or 10 and subjecting yourself to the meat market and thinking it's ok to take drinks from guys that are hitting on you. and we don't even need to bring up not wearing your ring!!! 100% not the place for committed people to be hanging out. just my opinion, everyone has one and that's mine. like i said, you want girl time and conversation with a friend... 100 other places you can go do it.... doesn't always have to revolve around sitting up at a bar! funny i ask, "why is it all you and these couple people do is go to the bar? you say you want to go to have girl time but all that ends up is spending 1/3 of the time talking to other guys?" oh that's just what they want to do, etc. i don't really do it, they bring them over, etc." "i'm not doing anything wrong, so what if i talk to guys." sorry, i 100% disagree.

 

we do talk, and from what i get the majority of her complaints is that because we are different, she resents the fact that i'm the way i am when thinking of our time vs. how she views it. she considers it that i'm controlling because i view our time is first priority (which i do, controlling or not) but i can see it from her side of the equation, too. i'm not that stubborn that i don't get it. everyone's different. some people enjoy and want to be first on the selection list of things to do, some don't. we are different and that's one of our problems. but i do make an effort to be more what she wants. examples being this week i had to play golf for a league, was going to be gone for a few hours after work mon, let her know what's up and she should call a friend and go to dinner and hang out after work since i'll be gone. we're playing cards tonight, i asked if she'd like me to have one of my friends bring his gf over so they could hang out together or go somewhere and do something. i feel like i try that's all.

 

i just don't feel like that i'm that bad of a guy that i'm made to believe i am... i mean, i cook, clean, do almost all grocery shopping, tell her she looks pretty all the time, run errands for her if she needs me to, tell her i love her several times a day, buy her stuff when she wants it, try to change things she asks me to (may take me a while but eventually i'll get it), don't hit her or cheat on her... i may have "my" ways that piss her off, but i feel my negatives are shadowed by the positives. anyways, sorry for rambling!

[starlite]

thanks everyone for your input! i really appreciate both sides of the fence.

 

like i said, "one person's controlling is another person's courtesy." if you guys have an open relationship that you and your boyfriend just make plans all the time/part of the time and don't make sure the other doesn't have something on their mind, etc.... that's fine and nothing saying that's wrong. that works for the both of you, great. also, there's nothing wrong with the other side of it either in being polite and checking with each other either. kind of a difference of dating/ living together, or being married or basically married. like i said, all the guys that i work with or been friends with... any time ANY plans are talked about between anyone, response is ALWAYS let me check with the wife/gf first and i'll let you know. don't see that as being wrong.

 

as i stated before, i don't consider that only one person is to blame. i know i'm not perfect, i make mistakes, say things wrong, argue, etc.

 

and i'm guilty of wanting her attention... and sometimes that causes friction because like i said i'm assuming we're making plans. call that controlling if you like. i don't see it that way. my desire to be around my "best friend" doesn't register to "me" as controlling. and my assumption that being engaged the "our" plans is the norm... seems normal to me. that being said... if she'd like to go to dinner with a gf or check out some chickflick or go purse shopping... i 100% don't have a problem with it. when she goes to dinner with the girls from work, i say have fun and be careful, etc. i'm even envited 1/2 the time and i just tell her to go ahead and go by herself to have girl time. i'd just like some what i call common courtesey if she has something else she'd like to do and let me know prior to making plans... again not to tell her no, but so i have time i can line something up with a friend of mine, etc. i do it for her, i guess i feel i'm entitled to the same. and the 2nd part of the common courtesy falls into not disrespecting me going out to a bar at 9 or 10 and subjecting yourself to the meat market and thinking it's ok to take drinks from guys that are hitting on you. and we don't even need to bring up not wearing your ring!!! 100% not the place for committed people to be hanging out. just my opinion, everyone has one and that's mine. like i said, you want girl time and conversation with a friend... 100 other places you can go do it.... doesn't always have to revolve around sitting up at a bar! funny i ask, "why is it all you and these couple people do is go to the bar? you say you want to go to have girl time but all that ends up is spending 1/3 of the time talking to other guys?" oh that's just what they want to do, etc. i don't really do it, they bring them over, etc." "i'm not doing anything wrong, so what if i talk to guys." sorry, i 100% disagree.

 

we do talk, and from what i get the majority of her complaints is that because we are different, she resents the fact that i'm the way i am when thinking of our time vs. how she views it. she considers it that i'm controlling because i view our time is first priority (which i do, controlling or not) but i can see it from her side of the equation, too. i'm not that stubborn that i don't get it. everyone's different. some people enjoy and want to be first on the selection list of things to do, some don't. we are different and that's one of our problems. but i do make an effort to be more what she wants. examples being this week i had to play golf for a league, was going to be gone for a few hours after work mon, let her know what's up and she should call a friend and go to dinner and hang out after work since i'll be gone. we're playing cards tonight, i asked if she'd like me to have one of my friends bring his gf over so they could hang out together or go somewhere and do something. i feel like i try that's all.

 

i just don't feel like that i'm that bad of a guy that i'm made to believe i am... i mean, i cook, clean, do almost all grocery shopping, tell her she looks pretty all the time, run errands for her if she needs me to, tell her i love her several times a day, buy her stuff when she wants it, try to change things she asks me to (may take me a while but eventually i'll get it), don't hit her or cheat on her... i may have "my" ways that piss her off, but i feel my negatives are shadowed by the positives. anyways, sorry for rambling!

 

You do sound like a great guy. Only problem is, you and your gf are very different when it comes to this kind of stuff. She wants more freedom. I dont know her, but if you are with her I take it you dont think she will cheat. I only know myself, and I would never cheat on my bf! We arent engaged but practically married is a term for us because we live together, have plans on staying together, share a living space and finances etc. I like going dancing with my gf's...i get hit on...sometimes the fact that i have a bf comes up, sometimes not. I dont flirt though. My bf goes to bars as well...i am sure there are times when girls are around...but for the most part he just likes to drink with his friends.

 

From everything you said, she doesnt plan on changing anything. So, can you deal with it? If you think you can change her you are wrong. If you try and make her stop doing what she wants, she will resent you.

 

And let me point out...you said you dont mind when she grabs dinner or shops with a gf last minute...but if she decides to go to a bar, you want more notice? Sounds like you have had a trust issue with her and you think that another guy could either take her away from you or that she wil cheat.

[design1]

\

You do sound like a great guy. Only problem is, you and your gf are very different when it comes to this kind of stuff. She wants more freedom. I dont know her, but if you are with her I take it you dont think she will cheat. I only know myself, and I would never cheat on my bf! We arent engaged but practically married is a term for us because we live together, have plans on staying together, share a living space and finances etc. I like going dancing with my gf's...i get hit on...sometimes the fact that i have a bf comes up, sometimes not. I dont flirt though. My bf goes to bars as well...i am sure there are times when girls are around...but for the most part he just likes to drink with his friends.

 

From everything you said, she doesnt plan on changing anything. So, can you deal with it? If you think you can change her you are wrong. If you try and make her stop doing what she wants, she will resent you.

 

And let me point out...you said you dont mind when she grabs dinner or shops with a gf last minute...but if she decides to go to a bar, you want more notice? Sounds like you have had a trust issue with her and you think that another guy could either take her away from you or that she wil cheat.

 

no i'm a rotten bastard!

 

she said she'll start keeping me in the loop and that she realizes what she did with the ring thing wasn't right. i also said told her i am sorry if i make her feel resentful because of my viewpoints. told her i'm trying (examples what i said above)

 

not so much that the cheating is the issue... i just take it as a major disrespect to me if she's sitting at a bar with the excuse of wanting to spend time with the girls... guys don't work into that equation then. and again this isn't 1 sided btw. as i stated EVERY time i've ever gone somewhere w/o her (usually to just get away from a stupid argument for an hour...) clockwork response from her... "did you talk to any girls". and if i did or told her it was ok for me to carry on with girls buying me drinks, etc... it would hurt her a lot, i've been told so!!! so equality i guess is what i'm looking for!

[Cobra_X30]

\

 

no i'm a rotten bastard!

 

she said she'll start keeping me in the loop and that she realizes what she did with the ring thing wasn't right. i also said told her i am sorry if i make her feel resentful because of my viewpoints. told her i'm trying (examples what i said above)

 

not so much that the cheating is the issue... i just take it as a major disrespect to me if she's sitting at a bar with the excuse of wanting to spend time with the girls... guys don't work into that equation then. and again this isn't 1 sided btw. as i stated EVERY time i've ever gone somewhere w/o her (usually to just get away from a stupid argument for an hour...) clockwork response from her... "did you talk to any girls". and if i did or told her it was ok for me to carry on with girls buying me drinks, etc... it would hurt her a lot, i've been told so!!! so equality i guess is what i'm looking for!

 

Well Im glad you kind of patched things up!

 

I'd really put some thought into how ready this chick is for marriage! This little interlude gives me the impression that she has some major issues! I would put off any wedding plans until she figures out why what she did was wrong!

[design1]

Well Im glad you kind of patched things up!

 

I'd really put some thought into how ready this chick is for marriage! This little interlude gives me the impression that she has some major issues! I would put off any wedding plans until she figures out why what she did was wrong!

 

thanks

 

she claims it had nothing to do with what it appears as. she says it was because she was mad and rebelling, etc. didn't want to wear her ring because didn't want to be reminded of the crap. told her that when she looks at the ring it shouldn't do anything other than make you remember what's important and why you have the ring in the first place and what it represents. not the stupidity or argumentative junk... all the good things.

[sunshinegirl]

The huge double standard here would really bug me: she doesn't want you talking with other girls, but her hanging out with other guys who buy her drinks is OK?

 

At best, this is immature.

[Jinnah]

Um, hello?! If they are getting married, he has the RIGHT to stop at the bar (whether it's for a good reason or just out of suspicion... and look, he obviously had the right to be suspicious if her was)!

 

I am married, and I, for one, do not go to bars without my husband (why would I need, or want, to?). I would NEVER accept a drink form some random guy either. I admit that I have taken off my wedding rings (out of anger), but I would NEVER leave the house without them on... EVER!

 

I also know that my husband would never find it acceptable for me to have some friend who was "up to no good." Why hang out with a person of that character?

 

If I was out somewhere and my husband made up some lame excuse to check up on me, would I be mad? Nope. I know that he loves me and that if he felt the need to do something like that, there would be a reason (maybe he felt insecure or something), and I would NEVER hold it against him and say he is controlling... he's my HUSBAND. People are losing sight of what it means to be a spouse. That's probably why the divorce rate is so high. His fiance is obviously haing some issues with something, and he should find out what they are (but he needs to make sure she is ready to talk... he should definitely ask when she feels like it and allow her time - but not allow her to blow him off either).

 

Marriage is complex, and it does take a lot of work. BOTH people have to be willing to make it work. It's time to grow up. She can have friends and spend time with them, but two married women should not have that sort of need to hang out in bars, getting men to buy them drinks! That man should not have been surprised to hear she had a finace, at the least! Why does she have the need for opposite sex friends? Her husband, and other couples that they hang out with together, plus some same sex friends should be enough! She should want her fiance in the bar with her.

 

Anyway, I won't go on any further, but I think something is up and he needs to find out what (un-abusively - not saying he is - but I don't know him - to me he sounds like he has the right to be upset, but I am only hearing his side).

[Cobra_X30]

thanks

 

she claims it had nothing to do with what it appears as. she says it was because she was mad and rebelling, etc. didn't want to wear her ring because didn't want to be reminded of the crap. told her that when she looks at the ring it shouldn't do anything other than make you remember what's important and why you have the ring in the first place and what it represents. not the stupidity or argumentative junk... all the good things.

 

Well, it sounds like its a consistent problem when she goes to bars with the girls. Do you think this is just a one time behavior? Here is why I have a problem with it.

 

One, it shows that she is seeking attention from other men! This has zero to do with you... its her insecurity. Why would she need any guy other than you to think she is attractive? Yeah... I think thats a big issue.

 

Two, She is leading the other guy on. No, guy is going to buy a girl drinks and flirt with them without some kind of expectation or hope. By, accepting this behavior she is encouraging him. Not only is that underhanded, but also has the potential to cause other issues.

 

She feels the need to rebell? Are you her Dad? Nope she isnt ready for a marriage yet!

[jcster]

she claims it had nothing to do with what it appears as. she says it was because she was mad and rebelling, etc. didn't want to wear her ring because didn't want to be reminded of the crap.

 

That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard (and I've heard some doozies). You get mad and rebel against your mom. You don't do that with your husband to be...you talk and work it out. I see some serious red flags here in your relationship. I would suggest you guys get some counseling before tying the knot.