Lauriebell82 Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 Hi, everyone. I'm in a serious relationship for a year now, and recently we have been talking about marriage. I am just curious about what everyone's opinions of prenups are. My boyfriend told me he would want a prenup, which surprised me, because I don't want one. So what does everyone think? Did you use one, or do u wish you had? Oh by the way, we are both in our mid 20's and neither of us have any assests as of right now, nor will we probably have any when we get married in a few years.
melodymatters Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 Hey laurie, It's your old pal here ! Sounds like things are better if you guys are talking about marriage but that the ...over-thriftiness is still an issue. A pre nup is to protect your assest you have going in to the marriage like properties, businesses and protects kids from other relationships. I don't really see a point in YOU two having one ! Did he say what he was going to put in the pre-nup ?
Star Gazer Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 Prenups are nothing more than a safety net. IMO, a person who presently has no assets but wants one has no faith in the marriage lasting. Your BF still wants the separation between YOU on the one hand, and HIM on the other. Seeing as y'all have no assets right now and wouldn't upon getting married, it sounds like he doesn't really care about building a future together, because he's still very focused on what HE would get out of it if it didn't work out.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 Well, during the conversation I was a little surprised because we had never discussed it. SG, I too asked him if he thought our marriage wouldn't work and thats why he would want one. He said no, thats not the case, that he loves me so much and he doesnt think we would need it, but so things would end up "fair" in case something happened. He even said thaIt we could just say that we wanted to split things 50/50 instead of one person getting more than the other. He could tell I was upset and he told me like 20 times in a row that he loved me like crazy, but he likes the insurance. I've been thinking this over all day, and talked to my dad. He said actually a prenup would be in MY favor because I will inherit all my parents assests (beach home, money, investments, ect.) His parents however are terrible with money and are almost bankrupt so he won't get anything from them. So my dad was actually shocked he even wanted a prenup, being that it would benefit me more than him. I don't know what the heck to think!
Star Gazer Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 Well, during the conversation I was a little surprised because we had never discussed it. SG, I too asked him if he thought our marriage wouldn't work and thats why he would want one. He said no, thats not the case, that he loves me so much and he doesnt think we would need it, but so things would end up "fair" in case something happened. He even said thaIt we could just say that we wanted to split things 50/50 instead of one person getting more than the other. He could tell I was upset and he told me like 20 times in a row that he loved me like crazy, but he likes the insurance. I've been thinking this over all day, and talked to my dad. He said actually a prenup would be in MY favor because I will inherit all my parents assests (beach home, money, investments, ect.) His parents however are terrible with money and are almost bankrupt so he won't get anything from them. So my dad was actually shocked he even wanted a prenup, being that it would benefit me more than him. I don't know what the heck to think! "Insurance"? This isn't about a potential car accident or flood or getting cancer - this is about a relationship that you build TOGETHER. It's my understanding that your dad is actually incorrect. I'm not positive about the testamentary laws in your state, but generally speaking inheritances are not split between a couple when they divorce. Your inheritance is separate property - all yours. The only way he'd get it is if you died without a will - a prenup has no effect.
Touche Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 I'd never agree to that. Never. As for your inheritance. In some states, inherited property is not marital property anyway. You need to find out what the laws are in your state.
Star Gazer Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 It's my understanding that your dad is actually incorrect. I'm not positive about the testamentary laws in your state, but generally speaking inheritances are not split between a couple when they divorce. Your inheritance is separate property - all yours. The only way he'd get it is if you died without a will - a prenup has no effect. Okay, I need to kinda correct myself. You're in PA, right? I believe they follow the "equitable division" principle, which is about "fairness." As for the inheritance, he actually would be entitled to a portion of the amount of the increase in value to whatever you inherit. So if you inherit the home, and it increases in value $100,000 during your marriage, you'd have to find a way to put $50,000 in the column titled "what he gets" without a prenup. You could, of course, off-set this with other items - you'd get the summer home now valued at more, and he'd get the marital home valued at less...or whatever, I'm not the accountant. But yes, if you believe in a safety net, it seems would behoove you to sign one and would be to his detriment. But get a lawyer to draft one for you!!
Art_Critic Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 But get a lawyer to draft one for you!! If you decide to use a prenup or sign one.. Make sure that you both have different lawyers as well.. some states require it if it is to hold up in court.. New Jersey for example one of the 3 or 4 legal requirements that it must pass is that each must have their own and separate attorney representing them or it will be null and void in court.. and don't use a divorce attorney.. use a contract attorney that does prenups and has a CPA background.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Posted August 28, 2007 Yeah, we are in PA. I really don't care about having a prenup or not. I don't ever want to get divorced so I don't even see the need to. I don't know what my bf is thinking. The comment about liking to have "insurance" bugged me and he knows it did. I told him that all the insurance he would ever need would just be that I love him and want to be with him forever. He said ok, and he said he cant make me sign it and he understood. Thats how we left things, and i havn't brought it up. He argued that we shouldn't be talking about this right now because we are a few years away from being married, but I disagree. We eventually just dropped it, and I'm debating about talking about it again.
IpAncA Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Here's I'll see it if someone asked me to sign one: He says: I want to sign a prenup. I see it as: I need you to sign one because I don't think we'll last and when we divorce, it will be a smooth transaction and I don't have to worry about getting screwed. Doesn't trust us enough to say together. I know others on here don't but that's how I see it.
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Oh by the way, we are both in our mid 20's and neither of us have any assests as of right now, Then there is no reason for a pre-nup I did find this on PA law.. http://www.divorcehq.com/articles/prenuppenn.html I personally think your BF is already showing a side of himself that might make you second guess going into this marriage. If he has no assets then why try and protect something that doesn't exsist ?.. If he is looking for you to sign away all rights to any marital assets then I would suggest that both you and your father take any prenup to an attorney.. having your Dad with you could help you with understanding what your BF would be trying to get you to sign away. I think you need to explore this further with your BF.. He brought it up and working thru this could be beneficial to you and show you how he is willing to work on problems when they arise.
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 have you thought about the possibility that he is just taking/listening to the wrong advice from someone he knows ? He is young, like yourself and he might be taking this advice from someone and he really doesn't understand how to apply to his own life... or even if he should.. Bringing up a prenup at this stage in your life when you neither had had and don't have any assets is really a dumb, self defeating move.. He is risking losing you over something that someone told him he needed...
jerbear Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I'll chime in on this one and suggest my opinion. In the 20's when most couples don't have assets does not mean they won't have assets in the future. It is quite possible that one of you two may stand to inherit or have ambitious goals. There are couples who divorced and it did not end up financially amicable. A prenup can actually help divy up the assets later on in case there is a divorce. Like divorce laws, a prenup is subject to certain state laws. If you two move the laws may change on you. It is good to discuss things. I would suggest going to a lawyer who specializes in prenups in the current state you live in. also is there any talk of moving in the near future?
Enema Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I'd say your boyfriend doesn't know how pre-nups work and thinks that they cover anything he earns during the marriage too. Obviously, he thinks his earning potential is far higher than yours. Pre-nups are a great idea if you have assets as you just never know how people and life can change... but if you have no assets, it's just a needless headache.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Posted August 28, 2007 Art Critic- yeah I think someone gave him the idea too. He said that "everyone gets prenups." Nobody I know has ever gotten one, but I'm thinking he got this from someone he works with. I guess as accountants they all probably have experience, and I'll bet some guy he works with told him to get a prenup so he doesn't get screwed over. Jerbear- yep, you are right, he doesnt want to get screwed if we end up getting divorced. I mean, yeah we don't have any assests right now, but i'm sure when we are married we will acquire some and he said he wants it to be divided fairly (meaning he doesnt want me to take him to the cleaners probably). We have discussed a little about moving in together possibly next summer. I am completing my masters degree and will be done in May, so when i come home next summer we were thinking about possibly me moving in with him. We didn't make any decisions, and are going to talk about it more over the year. I honestly don't want any part of this prenup. I don't want to sign it. It's just confusing that he says he loves me and doesnt want or see us getting divorced, but yet there is always a chance that it will. Those are his exact words, and they are confusing the heck out of me. Enema-yeah his earning potential is way higher than mine, he's a CPA and i'm going to be an addictions counselor. So he will always make a lot more than i will.
Tony T Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 This guy may be a selfish txrd or he just may not know what he's talking about. I'd have to see the specifics of the prenupt he desires but if he's wanting more than fifty percent of what is accumulated in the marriage in the event there is a problem then he's not a desirable mate. Go find somebody else. Or he may be testing you. Ask him what he wants in the prenupt before you jump the gun on this. It could just be that he's trying to be big man on campus and he really doesn't know what he truly wants.
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 So he will always make a lot more than i will. Don't for one second believe that.. your future isn't written and neither is his.. Your earning potential is just as high as his is.. you aren't talking about the difference between a waitress and a heart surgeon here.. A CPA doesn't necessarily make tons of money and a counselor can lead into other areas.. such as your own practice.. Don't let this man make you think he is better than you and you are second place in the money pool.. You are young.. a lot can happen between 25 and 80..
Curmudgeon Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 ...it sounds like he doesn't really care about building a future together, because he's still very focused on what HE would get out of it if it didn't work out. Of course, my true feeling is that if I felt I needed a prenup, absent CONSIDERABLE pre-acquired assets, I likely wouldn't want to marry the person in the first place.
vivi Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I wish I hadn't married my husband for just this reason. He's looking for the exit doors. IMO, don't move in with him until you are engaged, you hear? and be careful about this fifty=fifty stuff. If he outearns you, and he makes twice as much as you, you'll spend half your salary to pay off the new car while he pays a quarter. Make sure its proportional vis a vis earnings. I made that mistake, and I was bringing my lunch to work and he was buying custom made suits. Marriage is a partnership. Maybe he is concerned because his family modelled bad financial judgement, but when you get married, you make a NEW family.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Posted August 28, 2007 Thank you all so much for your responses. Well, i just talked to my boyfriend. I asked him where he got the idea that he needed a prenup and he said that he thought everybody got one and that he saw it on TV!!!! Yeah, so I told him that we dont have any assets, therefore a prenup would be pointless. He said he didnt care and we wouldnt get one then. He then apologized for being an idiot and told me that he loved me very much and he didn't see us getting divorced so we wouldnt need it anyway. Anyway, everything is ok now, but thanks so much for all your help everyone. Thanks for the website Art Critic. It was funny, I was ratteling off all this stuff I read about on teh website and the laws in Pennysvlania and he was like, "How the heck do u know so much about prenups?" I thought that was funny.
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I got these from salary . com and picked Pittsburgh as a base place to start.. You both will be making or have the ability to make the same.. The highest paid Chemical Dependency Counselor makes more than the lowest Senior CPA.. SENIOR CPA- Pittsburgh, PA Percentile 10th 25th 75th 90th $47,941 $52,791 $65,026 $71,313 Chemical Dependency Counselor-Pittsburgh, PA Percentile 10th 25th 75th 90th $32,755 $37,438 $47,432 $51,848
Art_Critic Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 He then apologized for being an idiot and told me that he loved me very much and he didn't see us getting divorced so we wouldnt need it anyway. Anyway, everything is ok now, but thanks so much for all your help everyone. Glad it worked out for ya... it sounds like he just got a bit in front of himself... Good for you both....
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Posted August 28, 2007 Thanks Art Critic..I had looked up salaries for chemical dependency counselors before and found similar things. Actually we will have fairly comparable incomes, and we have compatible spending habits and views on money as well. Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it!
Woggle Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 He is just protecting himself. You say you don't ever want to get divorced but look at the seperation and divorce forum and I bet you most of these men's wives said the same thing. Women initiate over 75% of divorces and most men never saw it coming at all. Women have a habit of being happily married one day and then wanting him out of her life the next and they turn at the drop of a dime. I am not saying that you would do this but you are female and a man never knows. If you truly are in this marriage for good you should have no issue signing this prenup.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I am not saying that you would do this but you are female and a man never knows. If you truly are in this marriage for good you should have no issue signing this prenup. Huh ? Mr. Lucky
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