4whatItsWorth Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 This has bad karma all written over it...but good for you FAJ you won't let him "draw you back" into his little world.
RealityCheck Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I'm sorry, but what are you trying to say? That I should have had an abortion? I didn't even think I was ABLE to have children, my daughter was (and IS) SUCH a blessing. Shame on you to put down my choice in HAVING her and RAISING her on my own. No, the circumstances weren't great. Yes, he was/is not a good person (when I got pregnant and when I was seeing him again the second time he made me truly believe he WAS, he pretty much had me brainwashed). But I am not going to deny an innocent child that God created a chance at a beautiful life because of my naivete and irresponsible behavior. I didn't plan on getting pregnant nor did I want to at the time, but it is damn sure the best thing that has EVER happened to me!! And I am doing such wonderful things for her and providing her the kind of life that not even children with BOTH parents have. She has never been in daycare (my mother watches her while I go to school FULL TIME and work part time), is still breastfeeding after age 1, is happy, has never been sick (except for a small cold), is very intelligent, such a sweetheart, has SO much family that loves her immensely. I just cannot see how you could put that down. It blows my mind. Let's get something straight right here, right now! Where in my post did I make any suggestion that you abort? I have NOTHING to be ashamed of in my post! NA...DA...NOTHING! My POV has nothing to do with a love for a child so don't even go there! I also stated that it is wonderful that you moved on and I am happy to hear it! Truth is, a happy parent is a happy child! This does not mean I will change my POV of anyone becoming pregnant in an Affair! It's simple basic logic.
Author FiveAlarmJockey Posted August 28, 2007 Author Posted August 28, 2007 Let's get something straight right here, right now! Where in my post did I make any suggestion that you abort? I have NOTHING to be ashamed of in my post! NA...DA...NOTHING! My POV has nothing to do with a love for a child so don't even go there! I also stated that it is wonderful that you moved on and I am happy to hear it! Truth is, a happy parent is a happy child! This does not mean I will change my POV of anyone becoming pregnant in an Affair! It's simple basic logic. I understand your thinking RC. I agree...having a baby in an A is not a very smart thing to do. But neither is having a baby at 16, or having a baby out of wedlock...so "they say". But who's to say what is the "right" circumstance for having a baby. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I believe that the "right circumstance" is "YOUR right circumstance". Whatever is right for you. Whether it be having a baby from your boyfriend, husband, whatever...it is YOUR choice. And these 2 kids were MY choice! Yeah...I would want them to have a father around every day to help me raise them, but it is what it is. And like I said before, it is no different being raised by a single mother who birthed a child from an affair, as being raised by a single mother who has just divorced, or a single mother who never wed. As long as the mother is in her right mind to raise the child and love them for all the innocense that they are...those kids are going to be just fine.
RealityCheck Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I understand your thinking RC. I agree...having a baby in an A is not a very smart thing to do. But neither is having a baby at 16, or having a baby out of wedlock...so "they say". But who's to say what is the "right" circumstance for having a baby. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I believe that the "right circumstance" is "YOUR right circumstance". Whatever is right for you. Whether it be having a baby from your boyfriend, husband, whatever...it is YOUR choice. And these 2 kids were MY choice! Yeah...I would want them to have a father around every day to help me raise them, but it is what it is. And like I said before, it is no different being raised by a single mother who birthed a child from an affair, as being raised by a single mother who has just divorced, or a single mother who never wed. As long as the mother is in her right mind to raise the child and love them for all the innocense that they are...those kids are going to be just fine. I am going to say this again REALLY REALLY LOUD AND CLEAR! My POV HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVING A CHILD THAT HAS BEEN BIRTHED!!!! I will not agree no matter how you stretch it! bend it! twist it! That having a child in an Affair is RIGHT! Here is simple math..... 1 + 1 = 2 W + M 1 + 2 = 3 W + M + W I am fully aware of single parents! I am one of those! I am fully aware of people having children who are young, who have children and then divorce and who make a choice to go to a sperm bank! I want to know why a person would have a child with a MM! A MM and an OW who agree to bringing a child into the world is not good enough reason for me when there is a W present!! Now unless someone is prepared to tell me that ALL parties being the W, MM and OW, sat down together and have ALL agreed to have a baby I will not change my POV!
Author FiveAlarmJockey Posted August 29, 2007 Author Posted August 29, 2007 I am going to say this again REALLY REALLY LOUD AND CLEAR! My POV HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVING A CHILD THAT HAS BEEN BIRTHED!!!! I will not agree no matter how you stretch it! bend it! twist it! That having a child in an Affair is RIGHT! Here is simple math..... 1 + 1 = 2 W + M 1 + 2 = 3 W + M + W I am fully aware of single parents! I am one of those! I am fully aware of people having children who are young, who have children and then divorce and who make a choice to go to a sperm bank! I want to know why a person would have a child with a MM! A MM and an OW who agree to bringing a child into the world is not good enough reason for me when there is a W present!! Now unless someone is prepared to tell me that ALL parties being the W, MM and OW, sat down together and have ALL agreed to have a baby I will not change my POV! RC, I am not trying to change your opinion. I am just stating facts. We (MM and OW) chose "together" to have have these children. The W is basically not a party involved...yeah, MM may be attached by that little piece of paper, but MM is not attached emotionally. Of course...why he hasn't moved out and gotten a D...I still don't know. (I am running in circles now.) Anyhow, I'll stop beating the dead horse...
RealityCheck Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 RC, I am not trying to change your opinion. I am just stating facts. We (MM and OW) chose "together" to have have these children. The W is basically not a party involved...yeah, MM may be attached by that little piece of paper, but MM is not attached emotionally. Of course...why he hasn't moved out and gotten a D...I still don't know. (I am running in circles now.) Anyhow, I'll stop beating the dead horse... Understand, I am not judging you. I do not know you. I have no idea of your life experiences that have brought you thus far and to make the choices you make. Your Thread raised concern no doubt and in the interim people will have questions and will have their POV. If it is support you seek to put an end to running in circles, not a problem. I am sure you are stressed to the max and being a Mother of little ones is a very difficult job. Your babies are here and I don't doubt you love them very much. Take all the support you need because you need to be strong for those babies. Good Luck
Author FiveAlarmJockey Posted August 29, 2007 Author Posted August 29, 2007 Understand, I am not judging you. I do not know you. I have no idea of your life experiences that have brought you thus far and to make the choices you make. Your Thread raised concern no doubt and in the interim people will have questions and will have their POV. If it is support you seek to put an end to running in circles, not a problem. I am sure you are stressed to the max and being a Mother of little ones is a very difficult job. Your babies are here and I don't doubt you love them very much. Take all the support you need because you need to be strong for those babies. Good Luck I understand that...and THANK YOU! I know people have their POV. And I know that the whole situation sounds "STRANGE". But sometimes the truth is too hurtful to face and that is why one gets defensive (POV)...so to say. But I do seek support for the A aspect of my life. That is the only thing that is stressing me out. The children are not even an issue. They are much too WONDERFUL to have an impact. Funny....I understand my kids, I know what they are thinking, I know what makes them tick, I know what to expect...but my MM...FUGGETABOUIT! LMAO!
RealityCheck Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 But sometimes the truth is too hurtful to face and that is why one gets defensive (POV)...so to say. Your welcome. And your statement here tells me that you may well be on your way..
RealityCheck Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 But I do seek support for the A aspect of my life. That is the only thing that is stressing me out. Well then, have you considered writing down all of what you have sacrificed for the MM. The list should include the months spent waiting for him to even make a decision, the emotional aspect, the financial aspect with respect to your children, the damage he has done to you and your children. On a separate list write down what he has sacrificed????? That's a start. It will be up to you whether you care to share it here or just keep that to yourself. Let's begin slowing you down where you can at least walk a straight line and not run in circles.
IWALH Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Let's get something straight right here, right now! Where in my post did I make any suggestion that you abort? I have NOTHING to be ashamed of in my post! NA...DA...NOTHING! My POV has nothing to do with a love for a child so don't even go there! I also stated that it is wonderful that you moved on and I am happy to hear it! Truth is, a happy parent is a happy child! This does not mean I will change my POV of anyone becoming pregnant in an Affair! It's simple basic logic. I respect your POV, RC. I can somewhat understand what you are trying to say, but you seem to be of the mind-set that I was purposefully trying to get pregnant. I didn't even think I was physically able to have children, let alone was I TRYING to have a child with someone I wasn't even engaged to. We did talk about children in the FUTURE and I told him that I probably wouldn't ever be able to have children because of what the doctor told me after my surgery... but I never intentionally tried to get pregnant. If you are saying we should not have had sex until he was divorced, well then, I completely agree with you. Thank you for clearing up the abortion confusion. I was jumping to conclusions there and I apologize.
annabelle75 Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 he's a tool i was i had something more to contribute but i just can't wrap my mind around this. how can he justify his actions and choices? this guy wouldn't recognize what the "right thing to do" was if you shoved it up is ass.
RealityCheck Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I respect your POV, RC. I can somewhat understand what you are trying to say, but you seem to be of the mind-set that I was purposefully trying to get pregnant. I didn't even think I was physically able to have children, let alone was I TRYING to have a child with someone I wasn't even engaged to. We did talk about children in the FUTURE and I told him that I probably wouldn't ever be able to have children because of what the doctor told me after my surgery... but I never intentionally tried to get pregnant. If you are saying we should not have had sex until he was divorced, well then, I completely agree with you. Thank you for clearing up the abortion confusion. I was jumping to conclusions there and I apologize. Here are my thoughts. Where you got the mind-set that I was of the opinion that you purposely got pregnant I have no idea. I never once accused you of that! I simply asked why? And stated my POV about those who get pregnant in an A. I will not change my POV unless I am given solid reason for a child to be born in a 3rd party situation being.. participate in the experience of a seraget pregnancy Or; where it is culture related An A consists of 3 ADULTS involved in a very unhealthy situation. A child should be considered out of love and not “deceit”. No matter how anyone tries to justify an A as anything else is in complete denial. An A is based on deceit. That is the reality. The basis that an OW and MM love each other means squat to me when considering birthing a child in a clear vision of deceit! This tells me that no thought has been given to a pre-conceived baby. It is a very selfish decision between two ADULTS. A decision made by a MM who cannot even make a decision to stay or leave his marriage! My interest is "for the sake of an unborn child" who has no voice in an unstable, unhealthy situation. I am speaking of PRE-CONCEPTION. For me, it is very upsetting for two adults to bring a child into the world under "deceit" circumstances. I really don't care how much love an OW feels for the MM the situation in an A is nothing less As time goes by most likely the A will dissolve leaving a child’s heart with many questions in the aftermath. A child will carry the cross for these 2 adults. A person can be a great Mother, however her love cannot erase the longing in a child’s heart. It is not a question of loving the child. It is a question in how the child will accept how he/she was pre-conceived. A Mother can say to her child, that the father died which ultimately paves the way to more deceit. It becomes a circle that cannot be broken. A Mother can cover the truth with lies with her thoughts only to protect the child, however it is a small world and eventually the child could come to understand the truth from another’s lips. And ultimately the child’s Trust for their Mother has been damaged. There were comments made regarding teen pregnancy. Firstly we are not speaking of teenagers. We are talking about grown adults. A child is more likely to accept a Mother who became pregnant immaturely than in deceit There were comments made about single parents. A child is more likely to accept their Mother wanted a baby more so, than knowing they were conceived in deceit There were comments made about divorced parents. The two parents were married and the child was not conceived in deceit. I made the comment about a person going to a sperm bank. The decision was not made in deceit Yes IWLAH you got pregnant. Precautions should have been well thought out, because truth is, the H does not take his OW home to his W let alone a baby I will not make comment to pro or anti abortion. It’s not my place to tell anyone what to do. It is only my place with respect to me I honestly wish you and the baby well!!
Cobra_X30 Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 ^^^^ I agree with this completely!!! LOL... You Rule RC!
IWALH Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 Here are my thoughts. Where you got the mind-set that I was of the opinion that you purposely got pregnant I have no idea. I never once accused you of that! I simply asked why? And stated my POV about those who get pregnant in an A. I will not change my POV unless I am given solid reason for a child to be born in a 3rd party situation being.. participate in the experience of a seraget pregnancy Or; where it is culture related An A consists of 3 ADULTS involved in a very unhealthy situation. A child should be considered out of love and not “deceit”. No matter how anyone tries to justify an A as anything else is in complete denial. An A is based on deceit. That is the reality. The basis that an OW and MM love each other means squat to me when considering birthing a child in a clear vision of deceit! This tells me that no thought has been given to a pre-conceived baby. It is a very selfish decision between two ADULTS. A decision made by a MM who cannot even make a decision to stay or leave his marriage! My interest is "for the sake of an unborn child" who has no voice in an unstable, unhealthy situation. I am speaking of PRE-CONCEPTION. For me, it is very upsetting for two adults to bring a child into the world under "deceit" circumstances. I really don't care how much love an OW feels for the MM the situation in an A is nothing less As time goes by most likely the A will dissolve leaving a child’s heart with many questions in the aftermath. A child will carry the cross for these 2 adults. A person can be a great Mother, however her love cannot erase the longing in a child’s heart. It is not a question of loving the child. It is a question in how the child will accept how he/she was pre-conceived. A Mother can say to her child, that the father died which ultimately paves the way to more deceit. It becomes a circle that cannot be broken. A Mother can cover the truth with lies with her thoughts only to protect the child, however it is a small world and eventually the child could come to understand the truth from another’s lips. And ultimately the child’s Trust for their Mother has been damaged. There were comments made regarding teen pregnancy. Firstly we are not speaking of teenagers. We are talking about grown adults. A child is more likely to accept a Mother who became pregnant immaturely than in deceit There were comments made about single parents. A child is more likely to accept their Mother wanted a baby more so, than knowing they were conceived in deceit There were comments made about divorced parents. The two parents were married and the child was not conceived in deceit. I made the comment about a person going to a sperm bank. The decision was not made in deceit Yes IWLAH you got pregnant. Precautions should have been well thought out, because truth is, the H does not take his OW home to his W let alone a baby I will not make comment to pro or anti abortion. It’s not my place to tell anyone what to do. It is only my place with respect to me I honestly wish you and the baby well!! The grammar/sentence structure/spelling were a bit jumbled in this (no offense, seriously) so I am going to try to construct a response the best I can with having to piece together this comment as a whole. You keep contradicting yourself on a few things. I never "considered" a child before I had one. As aforementioned, I was not trying to get pregnant and I didn't even think I was able to have children. I mentioned this in my last comment and then you went on to say "The basis that an OW and MM love each other means squat to me when considering birthing a child in a clear vision of deceit!" I never considered birthing a child. It wasn't a consideration of mine. We were not intentionally trying to get pregnant. You keep speaking of a "pre-conceived" child, but "pre-conceived" means before conception and before conception neither of us were thinking there was ever going to BE a baby. You said "I will not change my POV unless I am given solid reason for a child to be born in a 3rd party situation." How about the reason being the OW got pregnant. I mean, what are you trying to say? It was never a "pre-conceived" notion. The MM and OW are hardly ever TRYING to have a baby. You have this "opinion" but you never fully follow through on what you mean, which leaves me confused. One thing my xMM told me was to remember to tell our child when she is older (back before I moved across the country in 2005) was that she was conceived out of love. He told me he truly did love me and he wanted me to make sure she knew that. And I would appreciate it if you would quit lumping all OW and MM into the category of pure deceit. While, yes, I do believe I was deceived on a few levels (especially the second time around), one of the only things I fully believe is that he did truly love me. I did truly love him as well. Therefore, yes, my child was conceived in a situation that involved a certain degree of "deceit," but she was also conceived out of love. It does not matter what you say about this, because you were not there and do not know everything about my situation. No matter how much you might have read about it on here. To reiterate, yes, he lied to me about a lot of things and I believed him. But he did love me and I did love him and our child was conceived out of love. That being said, I would never lie to my daughter about anything. I have so much respect and love for this little girl, there is absolutely no way I would ever lie or try to hide ANYTHING from her. I will probably be married by the time she is 5 and the man I marry she will know as "daddy." But she will also know about her biological father and his family. I have already started (and just about finished) a small scrapbook about him and his family including all of the pictures I have of him and them. I will show it to her when she is a little older and make sure she always knows exactly who her paternal biological family is. If she chooses to want to know them, then of course she can on her own accord. My aunt had an affair with a married man and my cousin was born of that affair. The man my aunt ended up marrying when my cousin was about 4 or 5 is who my cousin has always known as her father. Though she has also always known about her biological father and half-siblings. Her mother told her the entire story when she was young and elaborated as she got older. She chose to never meet them, though. She doesn't want to be a part of their lives. For the record, my cousin is an honors college graduate, very happy and healthy and has a wonderful job and pretty much perfect life. She has never shown any kind of distress because of the situation she was conceived in. I've had a much more imbalanced life than she has and my biological parents were marred (and later divorced)!To assume you know how a situation is going to affect a particular child is just ludicrous. You can only assume you know how the child will react if you actually KNOW the child. No, it's not the perfect situation to be born in, but that doesn't mean the child will always have a "longing" in their heart that the mother can not erase. If the child has an otherwise wonderful upbringing, then I think that child will turn out emotionally great. My cousin is a perfect example of that. In conclusion, RC, I am not trying to upset you or antagonize you at all. I am also not trying to sway your "opinion." I just listened to what you had to say about it and I wanted to express my feelings and thoughts about it too, seeing as I have first hand experience. I would also like to add that unless you personally and deeply know all parties involved in a situation like this, this isn't really something that you can make a judgement call on. How about I get back to you in 20 years and let you know how my daughter turned out? My guess is she will be just as happy and well-adjusted as my cousin and even other children who aren't born out of "deceit" (as you call it). Much love.
RealityCheck Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Firstly the jab on how I composed my opinion didn’t hurt one little bit. LS doesn’t pay me for that service and neither do you Secondly, “I contradicted myself”??? I never birthed a baby in an Affair Thirdly, I don’t NEED to know how a child copes with a SELFISH decision made by 2 ADULTS having an A. I work with it Lastly, I will assume that you feel it is completely appropriate to birth a child in a nasty triangle because not once did you make admission of that fact My opinion was not judgement, my opinion was in the interest of the child. I’m done here!!
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 A child will carry the cross for these 2 adults... It is a question in how the child will accept how he/she was pre-conceived. That is the truth, indeed. I was born because a man chose to cheat on his fiance, and the OW got pregnant in a time where abortion was illegal. He married this OW, who in turn abandoned him and her children for a MM. Not a day has passed in which I was not reminded in some way of how I got here: either directly or indirectly. I can still remember meeting someone once with my Dad, and I asked who it was and he said ... "that was the woman who should have been your mother". I will never forget the sadness of that moment, and how I felt knowing that my very existence was part of that sadness. I can't help but to wonder how his fiance felt looking at me and how, without any intent whatsoever I was hurting her by simply existing. Its a terrible feeling. People are so quick to talk about the romantic notion of 'babies conceived in love' without giving a single thought to the fact that the baby is going to grow up and into that horrible baggage that he/she was brought into.
IWALH Posted September 2, 2007 Posted September 2, 2007 That is the truth, indeed. I was born because a man chose to cheat on his fiance, and the OW got pregnant in a time where abortion was illegal. He married this OW, who in turn abandoned him and her children for a MM. Not a day has passed in which I was not reminded in some way of how I got here: either directly or indirectly. I can still remember meeting someone once with my Dad, and I asked who it was and he said ... "that was the woman who should have been your mother". I will never forget the sadness of that moment, and how I felt knowing that my very existence was part of that sadness. I can't help but to wonder how his fiance felt looking at me and how, without any intent whatsoever I was hurting her by simply existing. Its a terrible feeling. People are so quick to talk about the romantic notion of 'babies conceived in love' without giving a single thought to the fact that the baby is going to grow up and into that horrible baggage that he/she was brought into. I am truly sorry that you have been hurt so much by what happened to you. I hope one day you can truly let go of all that baggage. I would like to say, however, that I think each situation is unique. My child will never be put in a situation that you were in (when your dad had you meet that woman) and her existence has not ruined her biological father's relationship with his wife so she won't have that hanging over her head. I am sure they will still be married 10, 20, etc years from now. Plus it was nothing SHE did. I will explain the ENTIRE story to her when she is older. We have completely eradicated them from our lives. Like I said before, I have made a scrapbook full of everything I know about them, including pictures, and will show her in a few years. She will always know about them and she can choose to really know them on her own when she is older if she wants. I can only hope and assume she will be as well-adjusted as my cousin has turned out to be (also born of an affair, if you read my previous comment) and hopefully she too will have no wish to know them as I am sure I will already be married to her true "daddy" by then. But you never know how things will turn out. All I can do is continue to be the best mommy I can be and provide her with everlasting, unconditional love and guide her in the right direction. I have definitely made some awful decisions in my life, but I am hoping that she will learn from my mistakes. I don't really see what happened between xMM and I as a "mistake" though... I truly believe EVERYTHING that was meant to happen, happens. While it was awful, it was meant to be. Otherwise I wouldn't have this precious little angel who has inspired me to do great things with myself and my life and for her. RC, I am sorry you took my comment so critically. I really didn't mean to upset you and I apologize. God bless.
RealityCheck Posted September 2, 2007 Posted September 2, 2007 RC, I am sorry you took my comment so critically. I really didn't mean to upset you and I apologize. God bless. IWALH...from the very core of my being, I wish you and your daughter all the peace and love in the world and I am hopeful that your daughter will be able to accept and be all she can be! For her, I wish her that sincerely. No hard feelings.
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