nottoobright Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 My husband and I have had many discussions concerning my posts on this forum. I put a lot of weight into the advice I have been given here. I've read some of my posts to my husband and he has found several inconsistancies in my side of the story or how I perceived things. I asked him to post his side of the story so that both sides are told and then he can judge the advice I've been given. This is the first thing he's done besides apologizing, to try to make things better. "Nottoobright" His side of the story. I am going to tell this as I viewed it, I am telling it as it happened, not through hind-sight. When I met "nottobright" I had recently divorced (approx. 9 months earlier) the last year of the marriage was brutal, my ex-wife had decided that I was the source of her misery, and I had to pay there was nearly a year of constant fighting and her cheating. When me and "nottoobright" met the first time we were at our kids band practice waiting for it to end, (she was with her husband as well), we all talked nothing major just talking. The next time I saw her was at a high school football game a few weeks later, she was with a mutual friend. I found out that she and her husband had split up and were getting a divorce. She found out her husband had a boyfiend and she left him. We talked most of the game and as we were leaving another band mom had stoped me to talk, "nottoo bright" left before I could get her number. Me and my kids rushed to the car and drove through the parking lot to try find her, but no luck. Luckily she asked the mutual friend my name and called me the next day to invite me out to coffee. I accepted and we went to a local resturant where we talked for hours, after a while we left and ended up in a wal-mart parking lot discussing everything from kids to ex's to sex. She had spent 12 years with her husband and I was telling her the things to be careful of since she was new to dating. She had been told by the mutual friend that I had herpes and ask if that was true, I told her yes, and that I hadn't had an outbreak in a fews years but yes I do have it. I told her my ex-wife had it too. I also informed her that me and me ex might end up getting back together, and that we were still somewhat sexually active. After hours of talking we decided to go to a local night club, things heated up a bit, more talking. "Nottoobright got tipsy and a good bit of "necking" went on . We ended up at my house that night, and ended up having sex, (I did use a condom to protect us), she spent the night. She says it was a few weeks later, but I don't think it was that long after when she told me that if I have sex with anyone else, not to come back to her for sex the very next day, I was thinking it was that morning but anyway. Shortly after she had said that, I had spent the day with her at her house, I had reminded her that she told me that. I was really enjoying spending time with her and was looking forward to getting to know her better but, I was going to honor her request that if I slept with someone else I wouldn't sleep with her the next day. She told me that she didnt mean dont come back, that she meant dont come back the VERY next day. Several weeks later we were in her back yard having a similar talk, when she told me that if I do have sex with anyone, not to tell her, that she didnt want to know. I then told her then don't ask, because I would tell her the truth. she said then lie and I told her no, if you ask, I will tell you the truth. Though I didn't tell her at this point, I had been sexually active with my ex-wife during this time we had been seeing each other. She "dumped" me several times, and then called me back saying I'm sorry, I didnt mean it, I was jealous. One evening my ex had invited me over for dinner, this was one of those times (not that it matters but dinner was all we did). "Nottoobright called me and left a message saying that either she or my ex deserved my undivided attention and ended it. There were other times as well, once at a band concert that our kids were in I sat with my ex-wife instead of "nottoobright", after the concert my ex wanted me to follow her back to her place (somthing to do with the kids but I dont remember exactly what clothes ,books somthing). Another time at walmart "nottoobright" had wanted to come over and I told her not tonight I was either really tired or sick(I dont remember). My ex-wife had called and wanted me to meet her at wal-mart I dont remember the reason, but I needed to get some oil for my truck anyway so I agreed. We met up at wal-mart, as we were walking in I bumped into "nottoobright" and her feelings were pretty badly hurt. Roughly 3-4 months had gone by since"nottoobright" and I went out the first time, We had spent the evening out with the kids (it was nottoobright's birthday). We said our good nights at the resturaunt. Mye ex ended up coming over after work, and spent the night, she often came by after work and spent the night but most of the time she just slept, and yes, we had sex. The following night "nottoobright" came over looking hurt and mad, she ask me did I "f*ck her" last night? My responce was simple," as a matter of, I did.". I realized then that I had just severly hurt the one person that I didn't want to hurt more that any one else, but at least I was honest. She broke it off with me again, I could not have faulted her if she never spoke to me again, a few days past and she came back to me again (god only knows why) There are other issues, Thanksgiving and Christmas, after she had found out I had sex with my ex-wife, I was trying to think of my kids and opted to have the ex-wife (the kids mother) over for those holidays instead of having "nottobright" over. There were numerous times the ex would come over and start fights and finally I ended up calling the law to get her to leave, I would usually tell the officer I dont want her arrested, I just want her to leave.. Roughly 6 months after we started seeing each other "nottoobright" moved in with me. My ex started doing more extreme things from bad mouthing "nottoobright" to the kids, to breaking into the house and leaving things or destroying things. finding our animals dead, department of children services called on lies, ect...the list is long. About 3 or 4 monthes later "nottoobright" and I started having fights, about the cheating. She wanted to get married and was pushing pretty hard, finally around 4 months later we got married. The fights have gotten progressivly worse. There has been several times that "nottoobright" promised that the fighting was done, but it still keeps on. Now it is daily sometimes lasting the entire day from the time I wake in the morning until 2 to 3 am. Around the time we got married I also pushed the child support to childsupport services when they took over the collections the ex-wife filled a batch of bogous comptempt of court charges against me, which has cost more in laywer fees than she owes in back support in the $10,000.00 range which only adds problems. There is still more to my side, but this is a start...
Author nottoobright Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 This is in a nutshell my husbands side of the "story", I don't know if he'll ever finish it but this is the most he has done to try to explain himself, honestly. There is not just more to his side, there are volumes such as reminding me every day for a long time that he still loved her, being anxious when she'd come around, telling me that only she wanted the divorce, the money I've spent on him and his kids, etc, etc, etc. I don't know if this will help us or if it will help me but his response is always that only my side of the story gets told.... As the famous Paul Harvey says "Now you know the rest of the story", is it me? Am I just being unreasonable???
livebuzzwords Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 i am very confused as to why this all happened but it is obvious that i am not required in any way i am more confused now than when i tried contacting my exgf 10 months ago..i really don't understand this behaviour but i do under that i am not wanted as a friend, a lover, or a future husband - that's ok i will now stop and focus on someone i know from POF that is interested and doesn't play games i believe this is for the best - my ex obviously hates me - i am sorry i hurt u so bad - that will never happen again [NC] i really tried hard to figure out whether or not what it was you wanted - i understand now - big love and stay kewl
LakesideDream Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 NTB, unusual move, posting your "H's" side, but good. There is one thing I am having trouble coming to grips with. As a mature man, I cannot imagine wanting two women at once. When I'm in a relationship my attention is directed at the person I'm with, not former lovers, wives, etc. I can't fathom being able to carry on two love lives. Maybe I'm not a hound dog, I may be unusual. Oh.. good luck with the Herpes thing. That catagory of ailment scares the hell out of me. I can't imagine being old and having my parts scabby.
Author nottoobright Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 Oh.. good luck with the Herpes thing. That catagory of ailment scares the hell out of me. I can't imagine being old and having my parts scabby. Thank you lakeside for your advice, this is me "nottoobright". In Jims defense he did tell me that he had herpes. He had never been tested for it but had in the past had what he thought were outbreaks. He had a very severe accident 5 years before I met him and he had alot of internal and nerve damage, whether it was the nerve damage or just good luck, he has never had an outbreak since. My doctor cannot explain this but says that it is not unheard of after all herpes is a virus that lives the nerve endings. Jim has always been very vigilant about making sure that there are no signs of anything that may even appear to be an outbreak. According to my doctor 60% of people our age have herpes. That is the one thing he has ALWAYS been careful about and if there was anything that even remotely looked like an outbreak he insisted that we completely abstian from any sexual contact. My biggest issue is that I knew about the fact that he had herpes and that there are ways to protect yourself, though not 100%, from getting it. It is the other diseases that he might have contracted that you CANNOT see. I often wonder how he could have carried on any relationship with 2 women whether it was the start of one with me or an emotional or sexual one with her. I've always had an issue with the fact that he had no problem looking me in the eye afterwards. The night after D-day, when I knocked on his door and he answered, he answered with a resounding hello and a smile. He looked me right in the eye. I often ask Jim "WHY" he did it, his answer is usually the same, "I was f*cked up". There are only a few reasons to sleep with someone, 1. You are horny and want sex 2. You love the person 3. You are a prostitute and it is your profession. Noone sleeps with someone whether it is one person or 55, by accident. I know the way a mans body works, it goes up and it wants to be used. I know how intercourse works, it goes in and out and in and out until climax. I don't think I've ever met someone whose penis fell into a vagina by accident, moved back and forth on its own and regretted doing it afterwards. We are having a fight today about Thanksgiving and Christmas. I asked him if he knew how cruel it was to spend Thanksgiving with HER only 9 days after I'd discovered that he cheated on me with HER, he says he did not think it was cruel. Lights and Bells and Whistles went off with that one, in my head at least. Anyhow Lakeside, thanks for your post Nottoobright Jim 1 0
East of Jupiter Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 Nottoobright I want to encourage you to change your name. You are quite bright. It is just that when you deal with manipulators, an honest person doesn't stand a chance. I did not detect from his post any remorse or understanding of his behavior. It didn't appear to me that he was here to help you but rather to defend himself. Interesting to me since we are strangers, that he is concerned about our opinion. This too may be a reflecting of his need to manipulate things to make himself look better than you. He could not stand that he may look bad Major red flag I don't know what you were told about his ex-wife and their marriage. I also don't know if you are aware of his history with her during their marriage. Did he cheat then, too? Also, was he the one who got the herpes and gave it to his wife or does he suggest that his wife is also responsible for that? I bet his wife would have a lot to say about Jim. It has become imperative for me (dealing with such a manipulator) to pay attention to the actions, and not the words. If his wife was showing up? He had to have been encouraging it. He seems intent on painting you as jealous and desperate to marry him. Even if that were true, that is not something you rub in your wife's face as a response to your own bad behavior. I point this out as further evidence of manipulation. What he is saying, iis that t's your fault. You asked for it. He owed you nothing and his behavior was justified because you were jealous and pushy. But I have another question. This is about the wife. Did he cheat with others as well?
Author nottoobright Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 Nottoobright I want to encourage you to change your name. You are quite bright. It is just that when you deal with manipulators, an honest person doesn't stand a chance. One thing I noticed in my husbands post is that he refered to me as "nottoobright" rather than my wife or by my name. That really sucked. I did not detect from his post any remorse or understanding of his behavior. It didn't appear to me that he was here to help you but rather to defend himself. Interesting to me since we are strangers, that he is concerned about our opinion. This too may be a reflecting of his need to manipulate things to make himself look better than you. He could not stand that he may look bad Major red flag He tore this section of your post apart, especially the part of being concerned about strangers opinions. He said you only said that because you think HE wanted to post when I clearly stated in the begining of his post that I asked him to post his side of the story. I don't know what you were told about his ex-wife and their marriage. I also don't know if you are aware of his history with her during their marriage. Did he cheat then, too? Also, was he the one who got the herpes and gave it to his wife or does he suggest that his wife is also responsible for that? I bet his wife would have a lot to say about Jim. I have met with his ex wife on several occasions. She is a freaking nut job. We went out for coffe and she cried about how much she loved him and wanted him back. Both of them agree he never cheated, only she did. They don't know who had herpes first, she has it really bad and he says he's only had a few minor outbreaks over the last 17 years, in 2 years I've never seen anything more than a little skin bump that resembeled a goosebump. Yeah she had a lot to say about him all good stuff like how wonderful he was to her and how patient he was after her 9, yes count them 9 affairs. It has become imperative for me (dealing with such a manipulator) to pay attention to the actions, and not the words. If his wife was showing up? He had to have been encouraging it. My sentiments exactly!! He could have sent her home the night she let herself in the house and caught him in the shower masterbating, instead he invited her into the shower, that happened twice. I have his cell phone records from the night I caught him. He called me to say goodnight and called her 4 minutes later, withing an hour they were mating (that seems to be the only word I can find to describe it) He seems intent on painting you as jealous and desperate to marry him. Even if that were true, that is not something you rub in your wife's face as a response to your own bad behavior. I was not desperate to marry him, though to hear him tell it I kicked and screamed every day until he married me. He asked me 3 times before I agreed to marry him. I have the fact that I pushed to get married rubbed in my face everyday. I point this out as further evidence of manipulation. What he is saying, iis that t's your fault. You asked for it. He owed you nothing and his behavior was justified because you were jealous and pushy. But I have another question. This is about the wife. Did he cheat with others as well? He just left here if a fit of rage, now it is no longer that the readers of this forum haven't heard his side, now it is because I've already poisoned you with my side of the story. God help me I am married to the single most self centered man alive!!!!
Author nottoobright Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 OMG, he is so very, very angry. I think he believed that the posts were going to sympathize with him. He just told me to tell everyone that I am a miserable bitch, his only mistake was f#cking his ex-wife and he can forgive people for wronging him. He's also told me to pack my bags. This is fine with me at this point. He has made me so hard and angry I can't even find tears to cry. He is desperate to find any reason to use that he comes out smelling like a rose and I smell like ****..... I've sent my sons away, not away, away. My 18 year old just got his first apartment at college and is happy as a pig in mud. I sent my 17 year old to stay with his girlfriends parents (4 hours away) for a week or two until I can figure out what to do. I feel like I'm spinning, I just cut myself again and it took a little bit of the pressure off. I'm home alone now and wanting to cut more. Feeling a little bit like suicide might be the answer but still have enough wits about me to know that it isn't the answer. Times like these I wish that I would just have a gigantic heart attack, I'm home alone noone to help me, the kids are far away and if it were of natural causes noone could blame me... Not even God. Oh wow, tears, where did those come from. I must have had some in reserve. By the way people my name is LAURA and I'm a human being with human feelings and wants and needs and loving someone and being loved by them is one of them!!!!
East of Jupiter Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 He just left here if a fit of rage, now it is no longer that the readers of this forum haven't heard his side, now it is because I've already poisoned you with my side of the story. God help me I am married to the single most self centered man alive!!!! My apologies. I didn't mean to cause you any further trouble. Regardless, you are to blame even for our reactions. Think about that. Frankly I think you have been all to kind to Jim. While you may have wanted to share this forum in an attempt (one of hundreds I'm sure) to get to the bottom of the issues, you didn't force him to write his words any more than you forced him to say "I do." The more you tell me, the more I think that his wife was betrayed. Even if she cheated on Jim, it appears Jim never really stopped his R with his wife before you came on the scene. He continued to see his wife and be sexually active with her the entire time he was with you. You may not think of it this way but Jim was treating you (and still appears to be) like you are the interloper in their marriage. Hence you pushed for marriage before he was ready. Many BW's appear like nut jobs to others. Especially, if their spouse is not being straight with them. And from what you say, while she had cheated on Jim, they were still married when you two met. His continued encouragement must have given her hope. Having been at the end of that scenario, yes, I felt like a nutjob too. But you know there just comes a time when we have to be honest with ourselves when others aren't doing so. I don't see this working out well and the longer you hang in there, the more injury you will cause yourself. I think that is what Jim wants. He is just not strong enough to tell you and he very well may care for you but it may just be he loves his crazy wife and is not over her. He may be very confused. But his cruelty towards you has no excuse. Reason why people should take time to be on their own before getting involved much less marrying again. You needed time to digest and get over your ex-husband's monumental betrayal. You are the third woman I have spoken to (one co-worker and one good friend) who were married to gay men. This does terrible things to your self-esteem. Now you are dealing with a man who is further damaging your self-esteem. Are you in IC?
East of Jupiter Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 OMG, he is so very, very angry. I think he believed that the posts were going to sympathize with him. He just told me to tell everyone that I am a miserable bitch, his only mistake was f#cking his ex-wife and he can forgive people for wronging him. He's also told me to pack my bags. This is fine with me at this point. He has made me so hard and angry I can't even find tears to cry. He is desperate to find any reason to use that he comes out smelling like a rose and I smell like ****..... I've sent my sons away, not away, away. My 18 year old just got his first apartment at college and is happy as a pig in mud. I sent my 17 year old to stay with his girlfriends parents (4 hours away) for a week or two until I can figure out what to do. I feel like I'm spinning, I just cut myself again and it took a little bit of the pressure off. I'm home alone now and wanting to cut more. Feeling a little bit like suicide might be the answer but still have enough wits about me to know that it isn't the answer. Times like these I wish that I would just have a gigantic heart attack, I'm home alone noone to help me, the kids are far away and if it were of natural causes noone could blame me... Not even God. Oh wow, tears, where did those come from. I must have had some in reserve. By the way people my name is LAURA and I'm a human being with human feelings and wants and needs and loving someone and being loved by them is one of them!!!! Laura, Hurting yourself will not change Jim's mind. But it will forever hurt your children. You are loved and cared for by many. You are now just focused on this human being and the desperation of having him validate your feelings. Please consider packing your bags and being with someone, anyone, who cares about you. If that is not possible, please call a therapist if you know one. If not, do as LostBoy suggested and call the local hospital psychiatric unit and ask for a emergency referral. I have to tell you that in many ten years sharing, your husband's reaction is one of the worst I have heard of. Please, please, get out of that house and find a safe place.
Author nottoobright Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 My apologies. I didn't mean to cause you any further trouble. Please dont apologize you didn't cause me any further trouble, he thought everyone was going to side with him... Many BW's appear like nut jobs to others. Especially, if their spouse is not being straight with them. And from what you say, while she had cheated on Jim, they were still married when you two met. His continued encouragement must have given her hope. Oh no, they were divorced for over a year when we met and she will even tell you she wanted out!! she had a fling with an old fiancee and wanted to get back with him, he had since married and she thought he was going to give his wife up for her. Once they were divorced this guy didn't want her anymore. She is a nut job, she's killed some of my animals, I raise rabbits and chickens, she told me she would troll for men anywhere she could think of, church, online, work, she even returned to school. This woman is 50 years old and calls herself "hippie chick". She is definitely a nut. But you know there just comes a time when we have to be honest with ourselves when others aren't doing so. I don't see this working out well and the longer you hang in there, the more injury you will cause yourself. I think that is what Jim wants. He is just not strong enough to tell you and he very well may care for you but it may just be he loves his crazy wife and is not over her. He may be very confused. But his cruelty towards you has no excuse. This is exactly what I think it is, he is still very much in love with her. He told me he would sit on the floor, a 6'4" man in the fetal position, crying at the thought of losing her. I am not even allowed to talk about his cheating. Reason why people should take time to be on their own before getting involved much less marrying again. You needed time to digest and get over your ex-husband's monumental betrayal. You are the third woman I have spoken to (one co-worker and one good friend) who were married to gay men. This does terrible things to your self-esteem. Now you are dealing with a man who is further damaging your self-esteem. AMEN, his "gay secret" liked to have destroyed me that is why I was so sure Jim wouldn't do that too me too, cheating is cheating but I was able to deal with my ex husband because there was NOTHING I could have done to please him if he was gay. Are you in IC? Nothing is anyones fault except mine!!!
ookla_2 Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 Laura: I'm hoping that your last statement was sarcasm...because obviously there are three people involved in this situation (one person too many), and the other two have done horribly by you. I agree wholeheartedly with EofJ...please get out of there. Now. Not one minute from now. This instant. Being alone with the thoughts you are having is incredibly dangerous. Think of all of the people who would be devastated if they lost you. Don't focus on the ones that you feel wouldn't give a sh*t. They don't matter here. The people that do matter are the people who truly love and care for you. Do what you have to do to save yourself. Call your best friend and go curl up and sob on her couch...let someone else take care of you right now. You need it, and you are not in a position to feel like taking care of yourself. You sound so full of self-hatred...you get enough of that from the two of them, don't you think? Don't jump on their bandwagon of beating you up... I say this because I've had those thoughts myself. Intellectually, we know how irrational that is. In the thick of things, we don't really care. Laura - we may all be strangers to you, but WE care....
LakesideDream Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 I feel like I'm spinning, I just cut myself again and it took a little bit of the pressure off. I'm home alone now and wanting to cut more. Feeling a little bit like suicide might be the answer but still have enough wits about me to know that it isn't the answer. Times like these I wish that I would just have a gigantic heart attack, I'm home alone noone to help me, the kids are far away and if it were of natural causes noone could blame me... Not even God. Oh wow, tears, where did those come from. I must have had some in reserve. Laura, If you have read my posts I am not a "gushy" guy. 57+ years have made me cynical and to blunt for some so keep that in mind as you read my reply. Don't Cut Yourself! - Don't Think About Suicide! - Don't Cry Unless It Makes You Feel Better! There are literally thousand of men out there. Not spoiled, narcissistic little boys who would do almost anything to have a good, loyal, attractive, and articulate woman like you. The world isn't full of "Jim's" (at least Jims that act like your dirtbag husband) there are men who would jump through fire, fight bears, and give up smoking for you. I know under the right circumstances I would. The sooner you can get yourself together, divorce this jerk, and let him find someone to abuse, betray, humiliate the better off you and your sons will be. Start now! Today! Stop thinking of him as your husband and realize he is the enemy. Treat him accordingly. Oh... and Laura's my second favorite name for a lady! (I'm partial to Diana).
Lezbean Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 I'm sorry, but I'm questioning if this is real. Honestly, this is one of the most messed up relationships ever. I hope you are a troll. Seriously.
Author nottoobright Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 I'm sorry, but I'm questioning if this is real. Unfortunately I live this every day do yeah it is real. Honestly, this is one of the most messed up relationships ever. Can't argue with you on this point, he has messed me up something fierce. I hope you are a troll. I don't think I'm a troll though I can't speak for my husband Seriously. thank you for your reply.
Author nottoobright Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 24 hours has passed since my husband sat here at this desk typing up his post, now that I've had a day to let his "side of the story" digest I'm going to address alot of the things he wrote about. Mostly to vent but also because I HAVE to. Laura His side of the story. I am going to tell this as I viewed it, I am telling it as it happened, not through hind-sight. When I met "nottobright" I had recently divorced (approx. 9 months earlier) the last year of the marriage was brutal, my ex-wife had decided that I was the source of her misery, and I had to pay there was nearly a year of constant fighting and her cheating. If she cosidered him the "source of her misery" why did they continue to sleep together, if she cheated on him after 17 years of marraige and wanted out so bad why would he go back for sex when he had already begun a relationship with someone else? When me and "nottoobright" (This kills me, as if he "forgot" my name.)met the first time we were at our kids band practice waiting for it to end, (she was with her husband as well), we all talked nothing major just talking. The next time I saw her was at a high school football game a few weeks later, she was with a mutual friend. I found out that she and her husband had split up and were getting a divorce. She found out her husband had a boyfiend and she left him. We talked most of the game and as we were leaving another band mom had stoped me to talk, "nottoo bright" left before I could get her number. Me and my kids rushed to the car and drove through the parking lot to try find her, but no luck. Luckily she asked the mutual friend my name and called me the next day to invite me out to coffee. What does any of this have to do with the price of tea in china????? I accepted and we went to a local resturant where we talked for hours, after a while we left and ended up in a wal-mart parking lot discussing everything from kids to ex's to sex. She had spent 12 years with her husband and I was telling her the things to be careful of since she was new to dating. She had been told by the mutual friend that I had herpes and ask if that was true, I told her yes, and that I hadn't had an outbreak in a fews years but yes I do have it. I told her my ex-wife had it too. I also informed her that me and me ex might end up getting back together, and that we were still somewhat sexually active. After hours of talking we decided to go to a local night club, things heated up a bit, more talking. "Nottoobright got tipsy and a good bit of "necking" went on . We ended up at my house that night, and ended up having sex, (I did use a condom to protect us), she spent the night. She says it was a few weeks later, but I don't think it was that long after when she told me that if I have sex with anyone else, not to come back to her for sex the very next day, I was thinking it was that morning but anyway. Shortly after she had said that, I had spent the day with her at her house, I had reminded her that she told me that. I was really enjoying spending time with her and was looking forward to getting to know her better but, I was going to honor her request that if I slept with someone else I wouldn't sleep with her the next day. She told me that she didnt mean dont come back, that she meant dont come back the VERY next day. Several weeks later we were in her back yard having a similar talk, when she told me that if I do have sex with anyone, not to tell her, that she didnt want to know. I then told her then don't ask, because I would tell her the truth. she said then lie and I told her no, if you ask, I will tell you the truth. Though I didn't tell her at this point, I had been sexually active with my ex-wife during this time we had been seeing each other. Does all of this paragraph sound like he is trying to say I gave him permission to screw around??? She "dumped" me several times, and then called me back saying I'm sorry, I didnt mean it, I was jealous. One evening my ex had invited me over for dinner, this was one of those times (not that it matters but dinner was all we did). "Nottoobright called me and left a message saying that either she or my ex deserved my undivided attention and ended it. There were other times as well, once at a band concert that our kids were in I sat with my ex-wife instead of "nottoobright", after the concert my ex wanted me to follow her back to her place (somthing to do with the kids but I dont remember exactly what clothes ,books somthing). Another time at walmart "nottoobright" had wanted to come over and I told her not tonight I was either really tired or sick(I dont remember). My ex-wife had called and wanted me to meet her at wal-mart I dont remember the reason, but I needed to get some oil for my truck anyway so I agreed. We met up at wal-mart, as we were walking in I bumped into "nottoobright" and her feelings were pretty badly hurt. From this paragraph doesn't it sound like I was trying to tell him he was hurting me???? Roughly 3-4 months had gone by since"nottoobright" and I went out the first time, We had spent the evening out with the kids (it was nottoobright's birthday). We said our good nights at the resturaunt. Mye ex ended up coming over after work, and spent the night, she often came by after work and spent the night but most of the time she just slept, and yes, we had sex. Considering how much detail he put into the night we met, isn't this paragraph pretty short considering he is talking about having cheated, on my birthday no less!!!! It also sounds like we hadn't seen each other for 3-4 months, at this point we had seen each other nearly every day FOR 3-4 months!! The following night "nottoobright" came over looking hurt and mad, she ask me did I "f*ck her" last night? My responce was simple," as a matter of, I did.". I realized then that I had just severly hurt the one person that I didn't want to hurt more that any one else, but at least I was honest. She broke it off with me again, I could not have faulted her if she never spoke to me again, a few days past and she came back to me again (god only knows why) God forbid I be hurt and sad!!! There are other issues, Thanksgiving and Christmas, after she had found out I had sex with my ex-wife, I was trying to think of my kids and opted to have the ex-wife (the kids mother) over for those holidays instead of having "nottobright" over. There were numerous times the ex would come over and start fights and finally I ended up calling the law to get her to leave, I would usually tell the officer I dont want her arrested, I just want her to leave.. Thanksgiving was 9 days after d-day. How special was that to get told that I'm spending the holiday with the woman I cheated on you with!!! He was thinking of the kids, that's why she stayed all day and all night??? The woman who had deserted her kids who refused to see them on a regular basis???? Roughly 6 months after we started seeing each other "nottoobright" moved in with me. My ex started doing more extreme things from bad mouthing "nottoobright" to the kids, to breaking into the house and leaving things or destroying things. finding our animals dead, department of children services called on lies, ect...the list is long. About 3 or 4 monthes later This is the result of calling the police and telling them NOT to arrest her, let her know she could do whatever she wanted with no repercussions!!! "nottoobright" and I started having fights, about the cheating. Duhhhhh!!!! She wanted to get married and was pushing pretty hard, He asked me 3 or 4 times before I accepted. finally around 4 months later we got married. Lucky me, yipeeee, yeeee haaaaa!!! The fights have gotten progressivly worse. There has been several times that "nottoobright" promised that the fighting was done, but it still keeps on. Now it is daily sometimes lasting the entire day from the time I wake in the morning until 2 to 3 am. Around the time we got married I also pushed the child support to childsupport services when they took over the collections the ex-wife filled a batch of bogous comptempt of court charges against me, which has cost more in laywer fees than she owes in back support in the $10,000.00 range which only adds problems. There is still more to my side, but this is a start... His story makes me want to barf, not as I see it but as he told it. If my sister was dating or married to this guy I'd call her a moron!!!!! Last night he finally fessed up to everything including the fact that he scr*wed her cause he wanted to. He had been telling me it was cause he was half asleep when she came into his bed and he didn't realize what he was doing. He is still waiting for someone to make a post that sides with him. I think he should start holding his breath,...... right.......Now...........
annabelle75 Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 I don't want to feed into the hysteria, but ............... from both sides of your story it seems to me that you have been pushing a relatiohsip that he wasn't that "in to." Sounds like he was still in love with his ex when you started dating and by your own admission he told you that. I'm not saying he's right or anything, but just that you can't make him feel the way you have decided he should. I really don't think you should have gotten married in the first place. Why would you push him to marry you after he slept with another woman? Hurting yourself or threatening to commit suicide is not going to change him. You know better than that.
Author nottoobright Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 I don't want to feed into the hysteria, but ............... from both sides of your story it seems to me that you have been pushing a relatiohsip that he wasn't that "in to." Sounds like he was still in love with his ex when you started dating and by your own admission he told you that. I'm not saying he's right or anything, but just that you can't make him feel the way you have decided he should. I really don't think you should have gotten married in the first place. Why would you push him to marry you after he slept with another woman? Hurting yourself or threatening to commit suicide is not going to change him. You know better than that. Annabelle, I don't think there is any hysteria to really speak of, just a woman trying to resolve some issues in her marraige so she can move on and get past this. I suppose you could say I was pushing to get married however I did not force him to marry me. He bought a ring just like I did, he picked out a suit to wear, he helped plan the wedding so I definitely didn't force him. Yeah, he did tell me he still loved his ex-wife and there were alot of issues there that left cause for concern. I don't think I've ever said how he has to feel about me, though I have told him lots of times that things he's done to me aren't really the things that you do to or say to your wife. You are assuming that I "pushed him" into marrying me, I didn't ask him, he proposed to me, several times. I married him because I loved him, the fact that he slept with someone else didn't set of an auot-response to not love him anymore. Yeah we definitely should have waited longer before we got married to see if I was going to be able to get over this but we didn't. As far as my "issues" cutting myself, that is something I've done off and on for years, this seems to have triggered it more often and I have not "threatened to commit suicide", there are times that I feel so low that yeah it almost seems like an option but considering I've been through mounds of hell and I'm still alive well, suicide hasn't really been an option yet. If you knew anything about the "disorder" that causes me to do that you'd know it has nothing to do with changing anyone, it is more a way to take some control no matter how good or bad of my life. I have a question for you, the reason you are on this forum, did you cheat or where you cheated on because you seemed to be pretty cold in your respose and almost sympathetic to the "cheater".
NoIDidn't Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I have a question for you, the reason you are on this forum, did you cheat or where you cheated on because you seemed to be pretty cold in your respose and almost sympathetic to the "cheater". What I don't understand about the coldness to your post is that she has dealt with a suicide of someone close to someone that she loves. I don't understand why OPs usually take the side of a wayward, but its usually pretty obvious its related to them not being over whatever A they were a part of and still have lots of unresolved issues with it. Ignore her. Your H is still not thinking straight. He is still in the "woe is me" stage. He hasn't begun to realize the real cost of his dalliance. That's why he is looking for sympathy. Problem is, no one is willing to give something out to the person that was causing all the pain especially if they don't accept responsibility for it yet. And if he is looking for sympathy its a sure sign he will be back in the arms of the OW or another OW soon. He is not taking responsibility for himself. I would not want to be around him right now. I don't like to tell people to leave, but I think you should. Maybe not permanently, but you should definitely take a break from "jim". He is not stable and he is making you more unstable. I am not a cutter, but I do understand the impulse and feelings behind the reasons for doing it. Take care of yourself first. Don't worry about him.
annabelle75 Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 What I don't understand about the coldness to your post is that she has dealt with a suicide of someone close to someone that she loves. I don't understand why OPs usually take the side of a wayward, but its usually pretty obvious its related to them not being over whatever A they were a part of and still have lots of unresolved issues with it. Ignore her. Your H is still not thinking straight. He is still in the "woe is me" stage. He hasn't begun to realize the real cost of his dalliance. That's why he is looking for sympathy. Problem is, no one is willing to give something out to the person that was causing all the pain especially if they don't accept responsibility for it yet. And if he is looking for sympathy its a sure sign he will be back in the arms of the OW or another OW soon. He is not taking responsibility for himself. I would not want to be around him right now. I don't like to tell people to leave, but I think you should. Maybe not permanently, but you should definitely take a break from "jim". He is not stable and he is making you more unstable. I am not a cutter, but I do understand the impulse and feelings behind the reasons for doing it. Take care of yourself first. Don't worry about him. You need to look past the fact I often defend OW from attacks by BS and actually read what I wrote. It wasn't cold at all it was pointing out they shouldn't have gotten married in the first place and telling her to stop hurting herself. Even you are telling her to leave. And ..... I'm not an OW. I was married for 8 years and had a child when my exH decided to cheat on me. I wish that on no one. Some times you just have to accept that people won't change and move on. Its a tough choice but you have to do whats best for you.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I have a question for you, the reason you are on this forum, did you cheat or where you cheated on because you seemed to be pretty cold in your respose and almost sympathetic to the "cheater". I think what she is trying to say is this - knowing what you know now, if you had the decision to make over again, would you marry him? If the answer is "no", then why not get out? Mr. Lucky
NoIDidn't Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 You need to look past the fact I often defend OW from attacks by BS and actually read what I wrote. It wasn't cold at all it was pointing out they shouldn't have gotten married in the first place and telling her to stop hurting herself. Even you are telling her to leave. And ..... I'm not an OW. I was married for 8 years and had a child when my exH decided to cheat on me. I wish that on no one. Some times you just have to accept that people won't change and move on. Its a tough choice but you have to do whats best for you. Annabelle, I don't need to re-read your post. I read the way NTB felt about it. It IS cold to post a comment purporting to know the facts, ie, they shouldn't have gotten married. I understand that its your opinion, but its too late for that. They did. Now let's help her deal with what is right now. Not with what she should have or shouldn't have done. You may be right, but what is the point of "I told you so"? From what I can see NTB hasn't threatened suicide. Thought about it fleetingly, yes. Telling her H that she is going to do it if he doesn't change, she hasn't admitted to that here. So it is a stretch to state that she "threatened" suicide. On another note, I apologize for advising NTB to ignore you. Being that she has admitted to being a cutter, it just doesn't seem helpful to put her on the defensive.
4whatItsWorth Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 'Dump the zero and get yourself a hero.' Short and sweet. But seriously, this isn't a stable situation for you...
Lezbean Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I feel very bad for NTB situation as well. But I'm with the poster who says that "jim" was never that in to the relationship and they should have never gotten married. Please NTB, get out, heal yourself and go find a good man. They are out there I promise. You should not have to be this miserable. You need to get away from each other. Love should never be this ugly and hurtful. Please get yourself some help.
Author nottoobright Posted August 28, 2007 Author Posted August 28, 2007 I think what she is trying to say is this - knowing what you know now, if you had the decision to make over again, would you marry him? If the answer is "no", then why not get out? Mr. Lucky Hi Mr. Lucky, If I knew then what I know now whould I have married him?? That is the $64,000.00 question. I don't know if I would have married him, Did I love him when I married him? Absolutely. Do I still love him now? Still I would have to say yes, I do love my husband and I took my vows very seriously. Loving someone doesn't necessarily mean liking them. I love my husband, he is my husband I don't like the things he does and I definitely don't like the things he says to me but it doesn't change the fact that we are married. When I first posted here I thought that someone would give me a magic answer on how to get over him having cheated on me, a magic answer on how to feel less like a moron for not having realized what was going on and a magic answer how to get past knowing that I am going to HAVE to see the woman he cheated on me with, at least every other weekend if not more often than that. So far I haven't gotten that "magic answer". When I asked him to post "his side" I figured that the members of this forum would explain to him how ugly what he did to me was, how horrible it was for me to have to hear on a daily basis, that he still loved her and how hard it is going to make it having to face this woman all the time. There has been a lot of good advice given to me, even by Annabelle who felt the need to rub my face in the fact that we stupidly got married and he doesn't love me. Why don't I leave him? I don't leave because I love my husband. I want to make our marraige work, I want to love him and I want him to love me. There is the very real possibility that I will never get over this and will end up leaving him in the end anyway but there is also the possibility that someone, somewhere will have just that right piece of advice that makes it easier for me to deal with this or get out of dodge. One thing that I can say that made me very happy today is he finally went to get himself tested for STD's, it was way later than it should have been done but at least he finally did it. As for my issue with cutting, yes, the thought of suicide has crossed my mind a time or two. I have 2 sons that I adore who love me too. I am all they have, I doubt I could ever do that to them even in my darkest, most desperate times. Even the few times that suicide seemed like something that was an option I always managed to talk to someone to get me through it. My husband has been sitting here with me every time I've read ya'lls posts or when I was posting a reply. So far ya'll have only addressed me. I think last night he might have been pleased with Annabelle's reply because yes it did rub me the wrong way. I think she stepped into something she knows nothing about reguardin whether or not we should have married or if I pushed for it or not. You can force someone to have sex with you, it is called rape. You can force someone to give you control of your car, it's called carjacking. You can't really "force" someone to marry you, at least not in these days when shotgun weddings are a thing of the past. He married me too. Anyhow, I will keep reading and will probably keep posting, hopefully my husband will feel compelled to post again, maybe if nothing else people who have experienced what I have can show him WHY I am so miserable. There truly are some kind and caring people on this forum that offer wonderful advice. Laura a/k/a "Nottoobright but gettingbrighter"
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