Why Can't I Flirt?

[Shenango]

There's this woman I got to know recently at work, and ever since we first met a few months back it feels like if there is such a thing as 'love at first sight' then this is it, and I know she feels the same way about me. We both happen to be very attractive people, the same age and have similar tastes and personalities. We can both get pretty flustered around each other quite easily, the attraction is so strong (it's actually funny to watch sometimes...LOL...since we can both sense it from the other). I guess one could call it a two-way crush.

 

I'm completely available at the moment, but she's had a boyfriend of over three and a half years who now lives nearly two hours away due to her move to get his job. To my knowledge they've never lived together and a colleague who's talked to her recently confided in me that her boyfriend just won't commit to her, not even enough to move to this area to be with her, much less propose. She is starting to majorly resent him and is about fed up waiting while he strings her along endlessly.

 

Even before then I kinda figured that he wasn't meeting her needs big time, since whenever we're alone together she'd be sending out SOS-type signals that I'm in the crosshairs, and giving the green light for a move. At first we were just shy/nice/quiet towards each other, but lately she's gotten to be freely flirtatious.

 

And while I don't have much dating experience for other reasons, I have totally shocked myself with my inability to budge on any of these gestures from her. I know that I am frustrating and confusing her, but no matter what, it seems, the fact of just knowing that she has a boyfriend puts a mental block on me more effective than if he had been physically standing by her side.

 

With a girl I'm not really interested in or who is available I can flirt like there's no tomorrow, but there's just something about the combo that she officially still has someone else and that I like her that just shuts me down cold.

 

I know she just wants to test the waters to see if we might be compatible before she cuts the other guy loose, and that she's the type to hang on by even a finger until such other opportunities manifest for certain, but to this day I've been unable to be anything except 100% business-like with her.

 

I know this is based in fear of rejection, but it feels like I'm in a strategy game where I'm being goaded into attacking from a position of weakness since the other guy is still apparently in control of the high ground where the objective is. And the thought that if we didn't get along, she could get rid of me and go back to her guy like I'm the evil homewrecker chasing after a committed woman just kills me.

 

How can I overcome this mental block that's keeping our relationship from progessing? Thoughts? Suggestions?

[birdie]

I think if you re-read your message, you would see the answer straight away.

 

clearly you are not looking for a one night stand so ask yourself this question: just because you are attracted to someone (not sure if I would use the word 'love' just yet) would it be right:

a) to screw the other guy over by taking his girl, would you want that to happen to you

b) what kind of woman (or person) tries to string two men along? that sounds pretty selfish and self-centered to me.

 

I think you know this though and I suspect you also know that you are confusing real feelings with how your man in your pants is thinking

[Trialbyfire]

How can I overcome this mental block that's keeping our relationship from progessing? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Why would you want to overcome your natural self-protection mechanism? You're just asking for problems if you poach someone and become the rebound guy.

[norajane]

I know she just wants to test the waters to see if we might be compatible before she cuts the other guy loose, and that she's the type to hang on by even a finger until such other opportunities manifest for certain

Yes, and this is what she will do if you end up getting together, when she starts looking around for the next guy to date before she dumps you.

 

Some women can't be on their own without a man for even one minute, so this is how they operate. She's not the independent kind - she's the selfish kind who is thinking more of herself than of you.

 

3 years is a long relationship, and a woman who can't end it and be on her own for a while to get over the relationship, is just going to be trouble for you.

 

Your self-protection mechanisms are kicking in because you know she's a bad risk.

[Shenango]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Norajane's was especially helpful and on-target I think. The part about her being the dependent type who thinks more of herself than the people she is involving with her is so perceptively accurate!

 

The bad risk thing may be true, but I somehow feel like this girl is worth the dive. I (quite honestly) have never felt such an emotional kinship with any other woman in my life. You could say I'm totally struck. And though she is unbelievably hot, it's not a sexual thing at all, though that chemistry between us is certainly part of it.

 

I guess I'll have to figure a way to tread lightly and weave around these feelings, because I can't live with the regret of not having at least tried if she ends up marrying her boyfriend or moving on to some other guy.

[jcster]

The bad risk thing may be true, but I somehow feel like this girl is worth the dive. I (quite honestly) have never felt such an emotional kinship with any other woman in my life. You could say I'm totally struck. And though she is unbelievably hot, it's not a sexual thing at all, though that chemistry between us is certainly part of it.

 

I guess I'll have to figure a way to tread lightly and weave around these feelings, because I can't live with the regret of not having at least tried if she ends up marrying her boyfriend or moving on to some other guy.

 

So, what your saying is that you are going to ignore your excellent instincts, which are throwing red flags all over the place, and are going to get sucked into it anyway? Trust me, the regret you might feel over not trying to get with this girl is much less than you're going to feel if you do get with her. I'm just saying.

[JCD]

Absolutely right. Do not get together with her until she is independent and over her b/f. Now you have a choice to fall or not fall in love with her and you are better not falling for her. You don't want drama so stay away from her until she figures herself out. Ask yourself this question. If you were with a girl that you didn't like, would you string along another girl or would you break it off with the first girl and then heal yourself and then date a new girl? I think you know the answer. You have morals she doesn't.

[Cobra_X30]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Norajane's was especially helpful and on-target I think. The part about her being the dependent type who thinks more of herself than the people she is involving with her is so perceptively accurate!

 

The bad risk thing may be true, but I somehow feel like this girl is worth the dive. I (quite honestly) have never felt such an emotional kinship with any other woman in my life. You could say I'm totally struck. And though she is unbelievably hot, it's not a sexual thing at all, though that chemistry between us is certainly part of it.

 

I guess I'll have to figure a way to tread lightly and weave around these feelings, because I can't live with the regret of not having at least tried if she ends up marrying her boyfriend or moving on to some other guy.

 

Perhaps a little honesty is in order here! Maybe if you pulled her aside and let her know that you are very interested in her, but because of your values you will not persue anything until she is free and available.

1. This is open and honest

2. It puts your foot in the door for when she does dump this guy.

3. It lets her know exactly what kind of value system you live by.

[jcster]

Perhaps a little honesty is in order here! Maybe if you pulled her aside and let her know that you are very interested in her, but because of your values you will not persue anything until she is free and available.

1. This is open and honest

2. It puts your foot in the door for when she does dump this guy.

3. It lets her know exactly what kind of value system you live by.

 

Yes! Do this! It allows you to tell her about your feelings, without sucking you into a black hole. It might just wake her up, and let her start being the person that someone with your moral compass can enjoy being with.

[norajane]

The part about her being the dependent type who thinks more of herself than the people she is involving with her is so perceptively accurate!

 

And yet, you still want to be with her?

 

she is unbelievably hot

Oh, of course. That explains it.

 

Good luck, dude. Loveshack will be here for you.

[Trialbyfire]

You have two brains. Use the big one because it can be quite logical, if applied correctly. The little one has no logic, just an instinctual need to breed.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

How can I overcome this mental block that's keeping our relationship from progressing? Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

Pardon me, Shenango, but what relationship are you talking about here?

 

You are NOT in any type of relationship with this woman. Period.

 

IF you think the heart-to-heart talks you've been having with her are considered relationship material -you are wrong.

 

Simply: 100% Business - 2% Friendship = 98% Business ---Not enough to get you into a relationship with her.

 

Here is what I think you should do.

 

Suggestion: She knows WHY you aren't making a move on her -because the boyfriend is in the way. She knows WHY you are taking things slowly -because, again, the boyfriend is in the way. She knows WHY you act cold and hot at times -because, again, the boyfriend is in the way.

 

She isn't dumb, she's smart enough to connect the dots.

 

So: Where is her will power? IF she wants to get together with you, she KNOWS where you are. She will have to do something bold to get your attention -this includes, more flirting and separating from her boyfriend.

 

Sit back, and wait it out. Let her come to you.

 

Sand&Water

[Shenango]

Thanks again to all for the input!

 

Cobra X30: thank you! thank you! thank you! Your advice struck me very well and reasonable! It makes the most sense I think, and to be honest, I was thinking of pulling her aside for a little 'chat' to sort us out, but now I'm definitely convinced that's the best way to deal.

 

norajane: she's not an immoral person, and I'd never talk about her negatively behind her back. What I meant was that just from talking to her, it seems like she's the type who cannot put herself in other peoples' shoes too well. This is not a good or bad thing: it is what it is. But the person who is this way will have trouble understanding how it looks from my perspective, no matter how flirty/available she makes herself out to be to me. She will have trouble figuring why I'm not biting, and will probably think I should see the boyfriend as nothing at all when in fact to me he is a stumbling block.

 

Once again, I am not after her because she is hot. As I said we are both very attractive people. I don't need to chase hot girls because they make themselves available to me (much in the same way I've described this woman) without solicitation (or at least that's how I feel). That's not to brag, but just to emphasize that mere hotness alone isn't all that special to me.

 

S&W: There's much politics involved, I'm afraid. She's the traditional type of girl who expects interested guys to chase her, especially since she's hot. Guys would be chasing her down the street, so for me to shut down her gesturing to me is a huge slap in the face and must mean rejection. After I ignored her last gesture, she's backed off completely is now 100% business with me. That's a sure sign she took it as disinterest, as unbelievable as it would be to her (just the way she looks at me sometimes now tells me she is frustrated with me).

 

And hey, given how most guys are, for an unmarried or unengaged man to turn down a hot woman, even if he has a girlfriend (which I don't) is unheard of. So who could blame her for being confused?

 

Anyway, she's made it clear the ball's in my court now, so even if I could flirt with her she's gonna find it odd. I think I'd better just talk to her honestly. I just hope she doesn't think I'm a coward.

 

Having said that: anyone see anything wrong with inviting her out to lunch anyhow to get to know her better as a friend?

[Yamaha]

hot woman

 

Really HOT women are all about drama and what you can do for them. You seem very intent on this HOT women and she has power over you. She (HOT women ) knows you want her and it is just a matter of time before you succumb to her (HOT) web. Guys become friends with HOT women because they are attracted to them and these HOT women play them and when they make a move the HOT women puts another notch in her belt. No offense to your ego but really HOT women are not worth the trouble but try if your so inclined.

[Shenango]

Really HOT women are all about drama and what you can do for them.

 

You're absolutely right, but that's exactly what I love about this girl: that she is that hot and not high maintenance, according to how I've gotten to know her. Plus, if she was HM, she'd no longer be dating her boyfriend two hours away (for over a year now) who she's been with nearly four years and has no plan to ever put a ring on her finger. She feels like he's wasting her life with his indecision, and a HM woman wouldn't tolerate that, knowing how much in demand she is.

 

And yeah, when the attractiveness equation isn't equal on both sides, naturally the more attractive mate gets to hold their nose up high. But that isn't the case, as we are well-matched together. I know she can score many guys with her looks, and she knows I can do likewise with many women. We're genuine competition for each other lol, hence the desperation on both our ends.

[norajane]

You're absolutely right, but that's exactly what I love about this girl: that she is that hot and not high maintenance, according to how I've gotten to know her. Plus, if she was HM, she'd no longer be dating her boyfriend two hours away (for over a year now) who she's been with nearly four years and has no plan to ever put a ring on her finger. She feels like he's wasting her life with his indecision, and a HM woman wouldn't tolerate that, knowing how much in demand she is.

 

And yeah, when the attractiveness equation isn't equal on both sides, naturally the more attractive mate gets to hold their nose up high. But that isn't the case, as we are well-matched together. I know she can score many guys with her looks, and she knows I can do likewise with many women. We're genuine competition for each other lol, hence the desperation on both our ends.

 

A woman who is not high maintenance does not maintain her current relationship while scoping around for another one. Low maintenance women end one relationship, spend some time healing from the loss - especially after 4 years with someone she presumably loved since she's concerned about marriage - and THEN she sees if there is someone else she can be interested in.

 

By looking for another man to take over for the current one, she sets up the next relationship as one being full of drama. If she's upset because he won't marry her, you'd be getting involved with a woman who is NOT OVER her boyfriend...how much more high maintenance can you get? How much anxiety do you want to deal with, wondering if she's still in contact with him, if she'd go back to him if he suddenly pulled out a ring?

[Shenango]

Thanks norajane. What do you think about the lunch thing?