I've made my decision-- needed!

[underpants]

How is my little sister?

 

Greencove I read your thoughts and I had one of my own.

 

Perhaps the obsessing and pondering of it all is on some level your way of holding on?

 

I am not saying that to be mean or to tell you not to learn from this relationship. However, you will at some point have to accept that it is over. That simple truth, although not the hoped for outcome, is just...what it is....over.

 

Not too long ago I was very upset and mad about some things in my life. I was enjoying the analysis and obsessive thoughts and playing into it more then is healthy. Then someone who I respect and admire very much but who I don't see or talk to often opened my eyes with a simple statement that once heard, I could not run away from. He looked at me and said..."Unders, when you want it to stop it will." It worked for me and I thanked him for his simplistic answer to something that had been plagueing me for months. My little drama continued for a few more months but my mind was much better equipped to handle it all after that one phrase just fixed my outlook.

 

You did what you could. You are not a bad person. Time to start looking around and moving forward, for you.

 

Go on...check out some cute boys.

 

I am looking forward to some 'sex in the city' threads.

[norajane]

I can't help feeling like there is something truly awful, ugly, impotent about my love to make someone so unclear about so many things be so very clear about not wanting me around.

Oh my, can you leap tall buildings in a single bound and stop speeding bullets, too?

 

Get a grip, sweets. Your bf broke up with you. It happens every day to people who are loving, kind, generous, funny, and hot. In fact, wonderful people get cheated on, too. And abused. And you wouldn't blame their love as being toxic and causing their bf's and husbands to leave them, cheat on them, and abuse them. So why are you blaming yourself?

 

Your bf broke up with you - he made that decision. He also made decisions to go to school, to get a PhD, to pursue a career, to invest his money, to wear his khaki pants this morning and to go out for sushi tonight. He's perfectly capable of making decisions and choices and having clarity about many things that he wants and doesn't want, while at the same time not having clarity about everything.

 

You can't control other people's behavior - you don't have that kind of power, neither for good nor evil. You can only control your own behavior.

 

So focus on YOU and control the things you can. Hell, with all the energy you've put into thinking about this break-up, you could have written one of those chick lit book about it. Even THAT would be more productive that what you're doing to yourself.

[Zapbasket]

How is my little sister?

 

Greencove I read your thoughts and I had one of my own.

 

Perhaps the obsessing and pondering of it all is on some level your way of holding on?

 

I am not saying that to be mean or to tell you not to learn from this relationship. However, you will at some point have to accept that it is over. That simple truth, although not the hoped for outcome, is just...what it is....over.

 

Hey Unders.... I think you're right. I'd invested a lot of myself in this relationship, for a long time, and now it's all gone, and I'm not sure how to orient myself. The future I'd envisioned had him all over it, and now I have to rewrite everything from scratch. I have one foot in the recent past that I can see, and one foot outstretched onto ground I can't see; I'm not even sure that beneath that foot is even ground--it feels like it could be a 1000-foot drop, or what is worse, a repetition of the past. I feel like I'm going to emerge from this in a very different place than I'd ever envisioned.

 

The only thing I can compare this experience with is when I quit the violin when I was 21. I'd been invested from age 12 on in becoming a violinist, and I quit kind-of by accident. It was supposed to be a break. The "break" grew longer, and before I knew it I had a whole new set of possibilities before me. This was exciting but I also felt like my quitting was a personal failure. I was a better violinist than I was at doing anything else, because it was the thing into which I'd put in the most effort. And so for a long time I felt like I was floundering; suddenly, I didn't have anything I was really good at anymore. I feared that perhaps my quitting demonstrated that I lacked stick-with-it-ness. Not only that, when I quit I lost a whole milieu, all the music friends with whom I'd spent years at summer festivals, at conservatory pre-college and college. Gradually they dropped off one by one, because I was no longer speaking their language, nor they, mine. Plus my parents are both musicians, and on my father's side is a long line of musicians, and so I felt like I was abandoning my upbringing and my heritage. It took me years to see myself as something other than musician-defect and to build a new orientation for myself. During those years I questioned many times my decision to quit, and wondered "what if."

 

It's not the same, really, because this time it regards a person, and moreover, a person who quit me, rather than me quitting them the way I quit a musical career. It feels much, much more personal this time. I hold on partly because so much of my identity was/is ensconsed in this relationship. I guess in some way the analyzing of what happened is good, too, because I'm discovering things about myself that I need to work on. For example, the fact that I convinced myself that I could only have certain things in my life through him, like a stable, loving family, the ability to stay in line with the status quo, and other things of less importance. That's not true at all, I realize.

 

I think at this point I DO accept that it's over. I will not contact him again, at least not for a very long time--as in, years--and I only say that because I don't know what if anything I'll think or feel about him years from now. I do not expect to hear from him, though a part of me deep down thinks that at some point we WILL have contact again. It's just a hunch; as for what shape or meaning that contact will take/have, and what the outcome of it would be, I have no idea.

 

"Unders, when you want it to stop it will."

 

This is so true! I don't know what else to say about it except to agree wholeheartedly and to vow to try that same attitude with my own situation and let you know how it goes. I hope it continues to give you the strength you need to overcome your situation.

 

Go on...check out some cute boys.

 

Haha, I'm not quite ready for that yet. Though I am, shall we say, a high-libido chick, and could have sex 5 times a day every day if I could, so probably my hormones will have me oogling and flirting in spite of myself, soon enough .

 

I am looking forward to some 'sex in the city' threads.

 

See above. I think I will be able to comply soon enough! By the way, did you hear that there is a SitC movie coming out soon?

[Zapbasket]

Oh my, can you leap tall buildings in a single bound and stop speeding bullets, too?

 

Get a grip, sweets. Your bf broke up with you. It happens every day to people who are loving, kind, generous, funny, and hot. In fact, wonderful people get cheated on, too. And abused. And you wouldn't blame their love as being toxic and causing their bf's and husbands to leave them, cheat on them, and abuse them. So why are you blaming yourself?

 

Your bf broke up with you - he made that decision. He also made decisions to go to school, to get a PhD, to pursue a career, to invest his money, to wear his khaki pants this morning and to go out for sushi tonight. He's perfectly capable of making decisions and choices and having clarity about many things that he wants and doesn't want, while at the same time not having clarity about everything.

 

You can't control other people's behavior - you don't have that kind of power, neither for good nor evil. You can only control your own behavior.

 

So focus on YOU and control the things you can. Hell, with all the energy you've put into thinking about this break-up, you could have written one of those chick lit book about it. Even THAT would be more productive that what you're doing to yourself.

 

Geez, I see your point, but that was unnecessarily harsh.

 

And yes, I am fully aware that he is capable of making decisions, which is why I became so frustrated with him over the years...because he never made decisions about us, even when I asked--as I always did--for his input. If I were controlling, I would just seek to run the show, rather than ask my partner to be, well, a PARTNER in shaping the future of the relationship.

 

I can think about it all I need to, until I don't need to think about it anymore. I've gotten to that point in the past, and I'll get there again. I may not know yet the full lay of the land of romantic relationships, but I've been around the block enough to have determined what process of overcoming pain and and developing as a person through it works for me.

 

Also, just because I share my thoughts on an internet site doesn't mean that the other 23.5 hours of the day I'm not actively moving forward, experiencing new things, forming new friendships, and overall doing GREAT. Geez.

[norajane]

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, and you can think about it all you want for as long as you want...but if you've reached the point where you're thinking there is "something truly awful, ugly, impotent about my love" then it appears as though your thoughts have spiraled down into a pretty deep ditch. That should be a sign to Stop digging.

[Zapbasket]

You are right in many ways, as you often are. I think it was the "sweets" that got me. I do tend to take more responsibility for things that happen than I should. I just have a built-in tendency to feel like things that go wrong are my fault. I always worry that I've done something wrong. It's completely ridiculous, and that's the point you were making.

[Zapbasket]

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, and you can think about it all you want for as long as you want...but if you've reached the point where you're thinking there is "something truly awful, ugly, impotent about my love" then it appears as though your thoughts have spiraled down into a pretty deep ditch. That should be a sign to Stop digging.

 

No, you're completely right, and I'm sorry I was over-sensitive. Again, here, you're right, as well. I wish I knew how to get rid of such self-defeating thoughts. They just arise, even while another part of me knows they're utterly ridiculous. It's so funny how you can have disparate parts of yourself reacting to the same thing in drastically different ways...all at the same time!

 

Well, in any event, I'm going on an 11-mile hike tomorrow with complete strangers--so no chance to descend into this thought-ditch tomorrow. A possible descent into a real ditch, though, is another matter

[underpants]

Well, in any event, I'm going on an 11-mile hike tomorrow with complete strangers--so no chance to descend into this thought-ditch tomorrow. A possible descent into a real ditch, though, is another matter

 

Just make sure to pick out the most attractive stranger to pull into that ditch with you.

 

I found it kind of funny that NJ and I were kind of saying the same thing. Yet you took a later corrected offense to her version. I think you caught yourself pretty fast and that is why you are so smart.

 

You are getting there. I just had a thought this afternoon that I might be oversensitive and not sensitive enough at the same time so ...I hear you on the entertaining several trains of thought at the same time.

 

NJ makes an excellent point about training your mind to not dig yourself in too deep. Know when to let the thoughts vaporize. It is okay to be stern in your thinking if the thinking becomes stinking. Most people here (and friends) will let you know when thinking becomes stinking and that it is time to stop thinking.

 

I think I just created a Dr. Suess/Dr. Phil prose.

[Zapbasket]

Just make sure to pick out the most attractive stranger to pull into that ditch with you.

 

Oooooh, sex in the woods! I'll pretend to be a doe, chased by a hungry black bear. Or I'll be a calculating cougar, prowling for some warm fresh mansteak to feast upon. Gosh, when I finally do have sex again, all of Manhattan may hear it. Um, TMI, anyone? Sorry; got a little carried away there.

 

I found it kind of funny that NJ and I were kind of saying the same thing. Yet you took a later corrected offense to her version. I think you caught yourself pretty fast and that is why you are so smart.

 

Yeah, my first reaction was "Ouch!" But she and you both are right that I'm acting like I''m somehow responsible for EVERYTHING and that's a "controlling" attitude, indirectly--not to mention an unnecessary burden.

 

Know when to let the thoughts vaporize. It is okay to be stern in your thinking if the thinking becomes stinking. Most people here (and friends) will let you know when thinking becomes stinking and that it is time to stop thinking.

 

I think I just created a Dr. Suess/Dr. Phil prose.

 

Your post made me laugh out loud! I definitely heard Dr. Phil in the "be stern in your thinking if the thinking becomes stinking." Though I think the "know when to let the thoughts vaporize" says it best. I am curious to know, though, where these self-defeating thoughts are coming from. They evince some serious self-esteem issues and I'm not liking that. Much because of the disparate self-parts you and I mentioned. How can one part of you be strong, mature, and high-functioning, and simultaneously another part be so weak and unhealthy?

 

Eh, whatever. I'm letting that conundrum "vaporize" for now. It's late and I was enjoying thinking of Dr. Seuss and sex (er, not at the same time ) much more!

[Zapbasket]

I went on a date this evening. It was with someone I met last week while taking a breather after work in the park by my office. He approached me and struck up a conversation, and it was interesting. I had to run and so I gave him my card and he e-mailed, hence this date tonight. It was okay; he seems nice, and intelligent, and has a lot of interests...but it just didn't click for me, just like I surmised it wouldn't (from our first meeting, I liked the intellectual discussion we were having and it seemed there was no way to continue it without doing so as an actual date.

 

He kept saying how pretty I was, how interesting I was, blah blah, and he wanted to kiss me at the end of the evening but I just wasn't interested.

 

Now I'm home, unable to go to bed because I feel really weird and sad. I'm not going to articulate this well so bear with me.... I feel...phony and disjointed inside. I mean, no matter how much I try to focus on all the ways my ex wronged me both in the relationship and in the way he ended it, the truth I can't escape is that my heart is still completely with him. I understand he's not mine anymore, and he doesn't want me, but I can't help it. I'm crying right now. I just felt a chemistry with my ex, an inexplicable pleasure, that was present even near the end when we were arguing all the time.

 

On the subway ride home after the date, I imagined how I'd feel if this guy and I had really clicked, if I'd started to feel those flutters inside of my intuition telling me that I was going to be sticking around, and he was going to reciprocate. And it was a sad moment somewhere around Spring Street where I realized that even if that had been the case, the truth is, if the subway doors opened and my ex walked in and smiled at me and said, "I've missed you so much and it was a mistake to have broken us up; I'm sorry for the things I said and I'm sorry for my mistake and can you and I try again?", every...volt of conscious and unconscious intent that I possess would propel me straight into his arms.

 

I know it's naive and silly so please don't admonish me...but it's just hard, when I thought of myself being with this person long into the future and now he's gone, and rather than find someone to be with, which was the spirit in which I found him...now I have to find a replacement. And I hate how phony and discordant that makes me feel; after all, people are irreplaceable. I mean, I feel like given who I am and what I know, basically with effort I could forge an intimate relationship with pretty much anyone. But what any relationship would lack right now is just my...spontaneous intent--that part of me that precedes conscious effort to make something work, just a part that is there and stays there, with the person, simply because I want to be THERE and nowhere else. The truth is, I still only feel this "spontaneous intent" with my ex.

 

I'm finding myself, after this date, back in a place I was last mired in several weeks ago: I find myself crying and asking the quiet night outside my open window (where I just sat and had a smoke--a habit I picked up for the first time in my life after I received that horrible "get lost" e-mail in mid-February), "Why don't you want to see me? How could you just discard me like that? Why won't you call me, even after I mustered all the courage I had and called you after 7 months of your silence, after your cold words in that e-mail?"

 

It just hurts. No sooner do I think I'm really getting strong again, then some heartstring gets plucked and the subsequent reverberations shake free all this pent-up sadness, regret, and longing.

[underpants]

Oh sweetie,

 

You had the 'mad date'.

 

You will find that spontaneous connection again. You will. Of course it comes with the full price of letting go. This subtle realization is probably at the core of the sadness. Not to suggest this guy is someone to persue. Just that the thought of moving on means letting go. That acknowledgement in and of it's own is painful, but necessary.

 

Funny I had to turn off YouTube Jouney, Seperate Ways, because it was distracting me. However, the song was somewhat parallel to my thoughts.

 

Someday, Love will find you.

[norajane]

This non-date is no reason to give in to despair. You know from the start you weren't interested in him whatsoever, so please don't use this as a barometer.

 

I know what you're talking about...the spontaneous intent. I had someone like that in my past. No matter what, he was in my heart and I wanted to be with him and that was that. I didn't want to be with anyone else. No one else could take his place. There was just 'something there' and nothing could change that for me. And I couldn't imagine how anyone else could make me feel like that.

 

Until, I started meeting people that could. I started a new job that had me traveling all over the country and meeting incredibly smart, sharp, interesting men that I hadn't experienced before. I didn't get into relationships with all of them or even most (some were married, some lived far away, whatever), but I realized that there were some incredibly awesome guys out there and that spontaneous intent was alive and present with them.

 

While no one will 'replace' your ex and the place he has, there will be others who will evoke that kind of response in you. It will have a slightly different texture to it, and the man will not necessarily be anything like your ex, but you will be present, alive, and just as certain that you can be with that person and will want it.

 

Don't give up hope on finding that, even though you may not be ready now. The spontaneous intent will surprise you when it shows up all on its own.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks guys. I hope you're right, and deep down I know you are. Funny thing: last summer when I was flying across the country to my ex's homecity to attend the wedding of one of his buddies, I got stuck in a major airport--was supposed to have had a 1-hour layover and instead it was more like 7 hours. While hanging around waiting I struck up a conversation with a fellow passenger, and we wound up spending the whole layover and then the whole flight conversing. We never ran out of conversation, he was attractive and intelligent and when HE told me how pretty I was I was able to think in response, "And you're pretty damned good-looking yourself, mmm..." My partner and I had been arguing and he'd said some very hurtful things, and I remember at one point during the plane ride feeling this jubiliation that, were things not to work out with my partner and me, THIS VERY MOMENT was living proof that I could find another man that turned me on on multiple levels. The feeling was so strong that this guy and I exchanged e-mail addresses (bad, I know--let me emphasize that when he e-mailed me several months later [he knew I was in a relationship], because I was still with my partner I deleted the e-mail without responding). So...what's funny is that this guy found me on facebook yesterday and friended me. He lives even further away than my ex did before he moved, so no chance of anything there, but still...

 

It's just...how do you overcome the weirdness of feeling the same kind of feelings for SOMEONE ELSE when those feelings were reserved, at one time, for your former partner...and what those feelings are are the unspoken VOWS of your heart to stand by this person no matter what, to love this person no matter what? I'm having a hard time articulating this but doesn't it all feel...cheapened the second time around? When I inwardly, through that "spontaneous intent," made that 'vow' implicitly to my ex, I really meant it and no actions on my part belied that (meaning, it was not I who left him). But the very fact of having to find ANOTHER person to whom to give that implicit vow somehow renders the vow 'less' than it was the first time, no? (Obviously this is slightly different than if the first partner is gone because of death.) My heart currently is keeping by its vow, the same vow that inspires all the love poems, love songs, etc.: "I will always love you." E.g., "Wherever you go / whatever you do / I will be right here waiting for you." If my life were a music video I'd be sitting on my window sill smoking my cigarette and singing those words softly to the moon. Because that's what my heart sincerely feels.

 

So how do I let that go when doing so seemingly makes it 'less' (because broken) for the next person? How can I genuinely love someone else when the truth is that if my ex were to call me and say he wants to see me, I'd take him back?

[norajane]

You don't see it now, but there will come a day when, if your ex called, you wouldn't take him back.

 

And no, it's not cheapened - it's different with another person. Just as every rose is different, but no less special and amazing.

[underpants]

You don't see it now, but there will come a day when, if your ex called, you wouldn't take him back.

 

And no, it's not cheapened - it's different with another person. Just as every rose is different, but no less special and amazing.

 

True that sister, true that.

[Zapbasket]

You don't see it now, but there will come a day when, if your ex called, you wouldn't take him back.

 

And no, it's not cheapened - it's different with another person. Just as every rose is different, but no less special and amazing.

 

Okay, I buy you unquestioningly on this second point, though as you know it's hard to see that when you don't have one rose tucked away and one rose in hand and can see two "special and amazings" side by side. But I know it's true, because I manage to say the very same thing, with conviction, to friends who are in the place I am right now.

 

But this first thing...what makes you both so sure? Why would it be, that were he to call after this "day" you mention, that I wouldn't take him back? I'm not doubting you, understand--I just want to hear more of the thinking/experience that leads you both to this conviction.

[tinke]

first...norajane, thank you for the inspirational thoughts...it's always good to hear that there if life after...

 

greencove...hey...kudos to you! you're one up on me!

can you see...this date was not so much about finding a "right match" as much as, a step toward accepting a new beginning. you did it, you pushed yourself out there..that's quite the accomplishment, give yourself some credit!

 

of course, initially, you will most likely compare men to your ex. why? because you still think of him and long for him...you have him on your mind! but, i do believe, with more dating, etc., interesting personalities will enter your life, and you may find yourself alive again, refreshed. but..you must be willing to allow this to form!

 

hey, seriously, i am soooo proud (and jealous, too) that you took that first step and seized the opportunity to START! this is major!

 

although i still feel hurt from my ex's departure and the fashion in which he exited,(i do still think of him ), i understand what the others are saying. i do not believe i am in love with him any longer. the pain is still alive, the disbelief, etc.

so, i understand how one day, enough time would have passed that i would not want him back in my life. i would not trust him again, plus...once there is someone else he is with...whew...it changes everything! so, although i do yearn for what we had, i can see where i would be able to refuse him in the future. he totally confused me in the end, and honestly, my situation/feelings were not considered. EGO-CENTRIC!

 

think of this, 9 mo. ago, could you even imagine you dating someone?

i thought not! so, you just accepting the invite is a huge step forward..it doesn't matter if it was the right match. YOU DID IT!

 

keep on!

[Zapbasket]

Thanks, Tinke! I AM proud of myself for being open enough to go on this date. And you're right, 9 months ago I could not have done it (mostly since I pretty much was in tears all through my off-work hours and was capable only of thinking and talking about what happened, lol).

 

When I think back over even just the last 10 years of my life, I've been very fortunate in multiple instances in that just as soon as I longed for a certain kind of person to enter my life, they did...in a way I could never have expected! I kid you not...it felt like someone was watching over me. One uncanny example is that when I was struggling with my thesis, I 'invented,' in my journal, an alter-ego named Professor Bloom who would strategize next steps, encourage me through the self-doubts, etc. And literally two weeks later, by chance I was introduced to a professor who was kind enough to offer to work one on one with me until my degree was completed...and her name was...Professor Bloom! She worked with me, asking nothing in return, for a whole year, and is now a friend. Meeting my ex was another example--he just appeared in my life at the perfect time.

 

If these things happened before, they can happen again...for you and me both. I do believe this.

 

As for not taking him back if he were to contact me in the future, I wish I felt about my ex what you feel increasingly about yours, but I don't. It seems that in your case it is very clear that your ex has a major, easily definable flaw in how he handles intimacy (at least that's how it appears from everything you've written, as I've told you), and so it seems like it's been easier for you to say, "He's the one with the problem, not I."

 

But with my ex, even when I lay out all his flaws and mini-betrayals in front of me, I just can't stay for long at that place where I can confidently say, "He wasn't good enough for me / He is immature/selfish/uncaring/jealous / I should have been the one to break up with him / I deserved better." It's like no sooner do I think any one of these things then this inner devil's advocate pops out and defends him and I'm left feeling that I'm the one who was not good enough. In my imagination I see the whole situation through his eyes and I imagine him thinking about all I have to offer and coming to the decision to reject it all without a second glance, without one morsel of regret or doubt about his decision. And in those moments, I just feel so impotent, like all the juice was sucked out of me.

 

Funnily enough, however, I realized in this date how confident I have grown, somehow, over the years or through this breakup. I carried myself without consciously thinking about it as someone who has experience at really loving--after all, I've been practicing steadily for the past 5 years!

 

And yet, I've thought about what you said, that maybe this breakup has nothing, really, to do with me and what I lack or don't lack at all...that maybe it all has to do with HIM, his weaknesses, etc. I believe you to be right, and then I can't hold onto that conviction for very long! I want to be able to say, firmly, "He walked away...and it is HIS LOSS!" But then I think, it's not really his loss, is it? He walked away because he didn't want to stick around, and he didn't want to stick around because he felt he'd be happier not doing so. And as much as I'd like to believe I'm the best woman he'll ever have, the truth is that he, like me, will find someone else who suits him. And he'd not have left me if he'd not realized that. That's what hurts, still: the knowledge that he broke up with me with the conviction, "I can do better than GreenCove." And as much as I'd like to say I'm a big person who wishes him only the best...truth be told I kind-of hope his next relationship sucks. But then I fear it will actually be much better than what we had, if only because there will be no long distance to contend with.

 

So, I wish I could get to that place where I think less of my ex.... How do I do it?

[tinke]

i cannot say that i am completely healed, but, i feel myself WILLING to let go now.

those things you had stated you do not feel about your ex....i do know exactly what you describe. i, too, felt that. i blamed myself, and always seemed to have a reason to justify his actions. no, i was not good all the time....but, i did do what i was able to at the time. i truly believe this. with that said, i HAVE to let go and leave it in the hands of a higher power.

 

you are human and have made mistakes, but did you not do your best at the given time?

there were times i am sure, that he could have been more supportive, affectionate, caring, expressive.........which in turn would have directed YOUR actions.

so, you see, he is not so innocent in this.

i still linger wanting answers, but i know they willl not come. this is something i have to make peace with on my own. the one thing that does help, because, initially i too, was protecting him in some sick way.....was to remember, i reacted to HIS actions. this helps me to see that i was not only at fault. just as you!

 

the date....yes, it provides many opportunities to help alleviate or at least channel some thoughts onto something else. doesn't have to be romantic, but, be proud you are DOING rather than talking!

 

yes, HE walked away and you attempted to again, make contact which he showed no interest. that is all you can do! have the peace of mind that it was not you that ended it, and yet, you tried to reach out again. leave him with the unease of knowing he has caused hurt, don't feel his discomfort too.

 

he had to have known/felt your love, and yet...he decided to leave. this is not on you, it is on him! repeat....i gave him the best i could at the time, he felt my love, and yet , he left!

 

you seem to be moving towards acceptance...your expressions are changing!

 

keep going!

[norajane]

So, I wish I could get to that place where I think less of my ex.... How do I do it?

 

That's where you have to make a decision to do so, and then you have to consciously and deliberately stop yourself each time you start thinking about him. It takes awareness to catch yourself when you start down the slippery thought slope, and determination to change your thoughts to something else.

I have used little phrases to say out loud when I catch myself...things like, "HE did this! HE's the one who made it this way!" and "He stole enough of my time - NO MORE!"

 

I also have set aside specific times to think about it, and set time limit, and remind myself of that when I catch myself thinking about him during the day. So, something like: this week, I'll give myself one hour each night and that's it. Any other time during the day, I tell myself, "Not now, I'll think about that tonight." And then decrease the time limit from an hour this week, to 45 minutes next week, to 30 minutes the following week and so on. And during that thought time, there is no blaming myself, no thinking of his good points, no thinking of the good times - the focus is on thinking about all the things that he was that were not right for me.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks so much, Tinke and NJ.

 

Well, I had an informative night...and can't sleep. Don't know what to make of it all. Like last night, I feel...weird.

 

I met two friends for a late dinner and one of them went to grad school with my partner and hangs out with my ex. We walked to the subway together and I asked her how he was doing. We talked for around 2 hours, standing on the sidewalk. Basically, she corroborated all that I know about him and have doubted over the months because I have kept blaming myself. In her view, as well, he's never going to change; he wants to appear as the stable nice guy and does not want anyone around who challenges that perception; he is completely non-expressive about his feelings; it's never certain who, if anyone, of his friends he actually respects; he's profoundly insecure; for him to contact me would mean a total change in his outlook on life that will never happen, or not for many, many years; he hasn't dated and isn't currently dating anyone; he's not happy with how things have turned out with him moving to NYC; he's self-absorbed; the way he treated me in the relationship was really unfair and disadvantageous to me. She also promised me that he never said anything bad about me and never talked about the relationship with her.

 

Basically she corroborated everything that ever frustrated me about him both in the relationship and in the way he exited it. She also said something that other friends have said to me, that I put him on a pedastal and that he's not all I make him out to be. She even said, "He's a friend, but mostly I hang out with him as someone to have fun with and talk about research with and really I don't think he's that great of a person." I said, "But knowing him as I did, there ARE really wonderful qualities there," and she said, "Maybe so; I personally don't see any, but whatever wonderful qualities could be there he's not going to change, he's not going to overcome his many insecurities because it's easier for him to keep up appearances and what he wants is someone who doesn't challenge that in any way."

 

It felt like all my thoughts were being spoken back to me. I don't know how this helps me except that it does much to restore my confidence in my own perceptions. Also, as this friend said and as I have sometimes wondered, it seems really, when it comes down to it, the relationship would not have worked. She, like many others, is convinced that eventually I'd have gotten fed up and left him.

 

I guess it's been hard because I DID and DO see all these wonderful qualities and I DO think I'm on target in my view in this regard. And I guess I saw those, and sought a relationship with that person who could access all he had to offer, never considering that he would never really venture to develop himself fundamentally as a person; he would always remain closed off...not just to me, but to EVERYONE.

 

I have a lot I'm trying to unpack here and it's going to take me a while to articulate it. I just have this weird feeling, something like a cross between discombobulation and relief. What I learned tonight, having the chance to talk with someone who reads people well AND actually knows him fairly well, is that there never was any mystery to all this. All the things I got frustrated with about him while in the relationship BY DEFINITION led to this break up. Meaning, I knew all along he was capable of this, and I knew all along that not only did he not seem to trust or accept me fully even though I gave him no reason not to, he never seemed to trust or accept ANYONE fully. So I think this evening proved you right, Tinke!--the break up has everything to do with HIM, and really nothing to do with me. He WAS the person who would break up with me from the beginning of the relationship, if that makes sense.

 

Maybe the only way this relationship would have worked would have been if I'd colluded with him to always keep up appearances, and never question what lay beneath. That is not in my nature. Ironically, this was not because I didn't accept him as he was, but because I saw so much in him and felt he didn't NEED to keep up appearances; he just needed to allow himself to be himself, to have a spine, convictions, etc.

 

I'm still working this out; it's very fresh. My friend said also, "Really, all along you had much more to offer him than he had to offer you, or anyone else for that matter."

 

Maybe this all suggests that there was nothing I could have done to prevent this breakup, not 5 years ago, and not 8 months ago. It wasn't my fault; it wasn't even "our" fault. It was his fault.

 

Sorry for this ramble but I just wanted to share my thoughts.

[tinke]

when i was reading your post, i couldn't help but feel that your ex and mine were very similar: insecure, self-absorbed, superficial. i too, know of my ex's good qualities, which kept me invested in the relationship. however, i strongly feel that mine had the capability to leave many times at any given moment, leaving me breathless.

 

this last time broke my heart...i was a broken person! so, i now know he is VERY capable of causing much pain without blinking an eye...not very appealing!

i could NEVER risk that kind of pain from him again, and history tells me, he is capable!

 

so, although i do long for what was, it is very different now!

 

greencove, yes, yes....you are getting there! everything you said makes sense in your last post. there is no doubt in my mind, that mine had traded me for someone less ambitious, passive......it's simply less work, and less expectations, less desires. pretty ma and pa!

 

so do take what your friend has said to heart....it makes sense! it fits!

it is him! you are more!

i'm sure you will run all this in your mind a few dozen times, but please, don't over-analyze it. it seems as simple as your friend pointed out!

you seem to have your thinking on the right track now....go with it!

 

take care

[Zapbasket]

Tinke, I'm glad you're mind is clearing and your heart is following suit. And I'm envious, too!--that you're seeing him clearly and your heart is following suit. You value what you had with him, and yet you feel clear that if given the chance you will not enter into a relationship with him again, because in your eyes he is no longer who you thought he was.

 

I feel like my life is increasingly resuming its normal dimensions and I'm facing each day with my whole self--meaning, no longer is so much of me bound up in the pain that I'm having to make do with half my energy available for tasks. And it seems I'm giving off evidence of this shift--men are noticing me more again (or maybe now I'm noticing them notice me, whereas in past months I was so heartheavy I just wasn't seeing it), and people are responding to me as one who is truly present in the moment.

 

And then at the same time, I feel very powerfully touched by this subtle yet massive hand. That, I think, is the depth to which I had internalized him, the extent to which all of me was invested in this relationship. I feel like all the moving forward, while sincere and real, is just the surface of things, and at the core the attachment and love are still there--in a different form than before because they're no longer affirmed by daily tiny gestures of attachment and love on his end, but still there, and very deep. The only thing I can imagine really MOVING this deep constant (don't know what to call it) is some equally emotionally powerful experience, i.e., falling head over heels in love again, or (and I'm afraid to say it) some tragic experience.

 

It's this hand, this constant, that makes me suspect my decisions will unconsciously bear the imprint of his impact on my life for a long time to come. This is me being very deeply honest with myself. For example, I think I'll be here in NYC for a few more years, and if I think of where I might move, it feels RIGHT to me to consider the possibility of moving to his homecity. That city made a very strong impression on me, and I felt very at home there, very much like the city reflected, in its landscape and vibe, the things that are truly important to me. I can't tell whether that's because I somehow transposed my feelings for him onto the city, or whether it's the city itself. Probably it's a little of both. I feel like there's a very steady force at work in me that has parts of the force at work in me from well before I ever met him, but then what he exposed me to really shaped the direction of that force, and now it bears a deep imprint of him on it. Is that me not moving on, or is that just ME at it's most sincere and I'd best just follow it and let it take me wherever it takes me? I mean, I've always followed my "inner must," as I've always called it, and usually I'm glad I've done so because it leads to greater strength because I'm being true to myself.

 

All the things my friend said the other night.... It's funny, but when I was in the relationship with him, I thought she was quite uncharitable towards him, that she didn't give him enough credit, that she underestimated him. I've spent many months positively REELING over his coldness at the end, but that doesn't make him a cold person, does it? It feels cold because he broke with me, and the woman he next gives his devotion and affections to will feel him to be the caring, reliable and overall delightful partner I felt him to be...overall. It feels cold because he opted to move forward in his life without me. Does that make him a person who will "never change"? I saw him grow and change a lot in the 5 years we were together. Just because he grew away from me in the end doesn't mean he won't grow; just because he chose not to continue committing to me doesn't mean he can't commit; just because he rejected me doesn't mean he's a narrow, rejecting person. It probably just meant that for whatever reason while I may have touched his heart I didn't touch it in all the spots that would have had him move closer to me, commit more deeply to me. The reason may well lie in him and I suspect what I'm about to say is true: that it just wasn't time for him to settle down. Other pieces have to come together for him and unfortunately while I was part of all those pieces coming together, ultimately I was not meant to be the person who benefits from the completion of their coming together.

 

Am I making more excuses for him? Or am I speaking the truth? I mean, I'm not sure if people's true characters are revealed in how they go about breaking up with you. I guess in some sense they are, in that any time someone makes a strong choice FOR or AGAINST something they're making a loud statement of what is important to them and what is not. But in terms of seeing the true extent of a person's character in a breakup, it's such a highly emotionally charged and transitional moment, people aren't going to be at their most charitable or level-headed. When someone says to you, "I don't want to be in a relationship with you," you merely witness them changing course; the real exhibition of character is what they do after they've made that decision. And sadly, you're not going to be around, most likely, to see it.

 

My friend said that he's not thrilled about how things have turned out with his moving here, but he's not moping about it. He's being very proactive--that was her word. He's moving forward with his life in positive ways. He's not sitting in the back of a dark bar, slurring his speech and puking into a pee-splattered toilet. He moves forward with a combination of limitations, issues, assets, wonderful qualities--just like me.

 

Was he truly "cruel" to me in the end, or did he just simply no longer want to be with me? It's true that what has me continuing to feel sad is the definiteness with which he cut me from his life, and the seeming permanence of it. I thought long-term attachments carried a bit more...stickiness to them. It makes me wonder if we all have the power to just wake up one day and decide to hell with my life and just up and leave every one of our interpersonal commitments and never look back.

 

But he didn't just coldly up and leave. He cried--he SOBBED, many times and probably many times that I did not see. He didn't just robotically walk away. He had a range of emotions at work in him and his decision wasn't just a thing achieved in an instant. This doesn't make him all the things my friend says he is to her eyes.

 

I'm trying to get at something but not really cinching it. Does anything I'm saying resonate with anyone? I'd love your thoughts. I'm trying to get to the really deep-seated stuff, I guess....

[tinke]

don't fall back to making excuses and RATIONALIZING his behaviors. for the first time, you seemed to be on an "eye-opening" path from your previous post. that one made sense! don't allow yourself to stay stuck in what he was feeling..it is about how you felt in the end, as a result of his actions.

 

he may have been a very kind, sweet person..............however, in the end you were severed from his life without so much as an explanation! yes, that is cold!

 

it seems as long as you continue to place him on this throne, you stay in this "stuck" cycle. yes, perhaps he was a good man, but, do not forget the avoidance, sudden departure, and the pain you felt as a result. no, i do not believe people are "bad" for leaving (in general), but, there is a proper way in doing so. you had many questions left unanswered, with no opportunity to get closure from HIM. (as i).

 

just as you seemed to be making a break-through, why go back to defending him?

i do believe it makes a strong statement in how people choose to leave. you deserved at the least a respectful departure.

 

yes, you most likely will always have love for him, (as i, mine) but, i do realize that was what we HAD..i also realize now, what he is capable of, in terms of creating deep hurt with his non-chalant hurtful attitude.

 

please be careful, you are not setting yourself up to STAY in this cycle of desire...

what your friend said makes sense. sometimes...it really is just that simple!

we know them on a different level, but, in the end...it is good to hear an objective opinion.

take care.........

[Zapbasket]

Tinke, I had to read your post many times because it was so thoughtful and wise. It's true, that how people choose to leave makes a strong statement--maybe not always about how they are and always will be as a person as a whole, but certainly about the extent of their inner resources, compassion, and maturity at that particular time in their lives.

 

And the way he left me, where I'm convinced that if I'd never contacted him after December 5th when he yelled, "It's over, GreenCove" into the phone and hung up and then turned off his phone, he'd never again have felt the necessity to contact me, confirms all my fears about him that I had during the relationship. He had an uncanny ability to shut down and cut off emotionally as a way of dealing with difficulties, and this is what was at his service when he ended things. You're right that it really is as simple as that.

 

I just wish I fully understood why I continue to feel such pain. I came home this evening and just felt the need to cry and sobbed for 30 minutes over the loss of this person from my life. Earlier this afternoon I signed up for an activity group on a large social networking site, only to discover that he, too, is a member of this group and has gone on some of their outings. This, too, made me very sad. I don't want to stay in this "cycle of desire," as you call it (well-put), but I don't know how to get out of it. I know Norajane advised cutting off thinking about him at ever decreasing intervals, and I've been trying that, but I feel there are underlying things too that need to be addressed.

 

Like: I feel like all my relationships are cheapened by this. If it's so easy to just walk away and there's no way to prove that he broke some sacred moral code or something, then what's the point of any relationship if we don't incur some kind of obligation to one another?

 

Maybe that's the thing--there are people who won't walk away when there are conflicts....

 

I just don't know what to think anymore.