I've made my decision-- needed!

[Zapbasket]

Izzy, I think we just have a different take on things. Moreover I think you're misunderstanding what I've been saying or I've not made myself sufficiently clear. Neither of us is right or wrong, and nothing can prove either of us right or wrong in this situation. I appreciate your perspective and I'm sure you have reasons for seeing the situation the way you do, as do I.

[tinke]

hello greencove..just checking in...hope you are doing well.

[4whatItsWorth]

A "psychological" point of view is that there could be a million reasons for this;

 

While I dont agree with izzy he never loved you...I do say you view it as "there are millions of reasons" - I know, I used to do that too.

 

But in the end, you'll realise what I realised a year ago - there wasn't a million reasons - he simply wasn't into me anymore. He simply didn't care whether or not I was alive. And that's the moment when I realised I never wanted him back anyways.

 

[tinke]

hello G.C., give us an update. how are you doing?

 

been wondering how you're holding up!

 

take care

[Zapbasket]

Thanks for your thoughts, Tinke.

 

Well, I spoke to him today via phone. Given now he's back to being "a person in the present" and not [fully] someone lost, I fear posting details here given the public nature of this forum. Tonight or tomorrow I'll continue this thread in the Water Cooler forum where there's a little more privacy. For full details, PM me

[underpants]

Thanks for your thoughts, Tinke.

 

Well, I spoke to him today via phone. Given now he's back to being "a person in the present" and not [fully] someone lost, I fear posting details here given the public nature of this forum. Tonight or tomorrow I'll continue this thread in the Water Cooler forum where there's a little more privacy. For full details, PM me

 

I am glad my gut was right, one day shy of my deadline. I hope this goes well for you Greencove.

[bestadvisor]

Thanks for your thoughts, Tinke.

 

Well, I spoke to him today via phone. Given now he's back to being "a person in the present" and not [fully] someone lost, I fear posting details here given the public nature of this forum. Tonight or tomorrow I'll continue this thread in the Water Cooler forum where there's a little more privacy. For full details, PM me

 

What are the chances that him or someone you know find this post and able to link it to you among about billion of people having access to the internet?

[Zapbasket]

You're right, Bestadvisor. I guess it's a habit to take care to respect the privacy of people in my life. But in this case my need for support overrides that habit. So here's the story.

 

Talking to a mutual friend Sunday morning, I find out that he's moved out of the apartment we found together last August and across town to another apartment. He'd just moved and I realized that meant it was very possible he'd not receive my note. I didn't plan to call him at all; I was so shaken up to hear ANY news about him after all this time that I found myself restricting my number and dialing his cell #, something I refrained from doing these past 7 months because I knew he'd know it was me. I called, and he answered, and I hung up.

 

Suddenly I felt like a barrier had been let down. His cell # was Taboo all these months and suddenly my calling broke the Taboo in my mind. I felt a surge of courage, and coupled with my realization that I could no longer count on my letter reaching him, I just did it: I called him again and when he picked up I said, "___? It's Greencove."

 

He didn't sound taken aback. I don't remember now how it began, but we talked for over 30 minutes. There were some awkward pauses and the conversation was a combination of stilted, with glints of our old connection. Mostly it was along the lines of, "How's your family?" [Answer, with details] "How's yours?" [reciprocal answer, with details] "How's work?" etc. He was rather forthcoming with information; he gave out more than I asked for and seemed genuinely to be glad I called, in the reserved way he shows such sentiments. I know if he wasn't glad I called, he'd have given only the barest amount of information. He didn't come out and say this, but he's not dating anyone, this I can tell. It sounded to me like he's had a hard time, as well, but like me has been doing his best to keep moving forward. We're both getting out and doing activities, he hiking and playing ultimate, me hiking and kayaking. We've both been doing very well at our jobs.

 

The time passed, and he didn't sound like he was tiring of our conversation, which was a big relief for me as I was afraid that any minute he'd shut down and indicate he wanted to get off the phone. Nevertheless, I made sure I ended the call first. And here's where it gets weird/confusing/difficult:

 

I said, "Well, I'd better get going." He replied, "It's good to hear you're doing well." Now, this sounds very formal, but he'd say things like that when we were together and sometimes I'd get hurt and protest, "It sounds like something you'd say to a business associate." So I can't read much into that as it's just indicative of HIM. I said, "Same here," and then I said, "It would be really good to see you--maybe we could meet up sometime." He's a very cautious person and doesn't make promises he can't keep, but still I hoped/expected he would say, "I'd like that." Instead there was a pause, as there were pauses on both our sides at times in the conversation, and he sort-of mumbled, "Uh, yeah, maybe," in a tone that sounded like he coudl have said, "I don't think so." This was the only moment where I felt like I hit a wall; the rest of the conversation, as I said, I felt he was much more free with information than I could have anticipated. I said, "So we'll talk again," and his answer was so noncommittal I don't even remember what he said. And we hung up.

 

I was a mess the rest of the day. I don't know where to go from here. I know I need to just let it go and give him time to mull things over and decide whether he'd like to make contact or not and do it, or not. But I find myself immediately leaping to the negative: that he won't contact me, even after this wonderful invitation after nearly 7 months of silence. I know he's very cautious, as I said, and basically he ran from the relationship, so even though I can feel he's in no way indifferent to me I fear he's just not going to stick his neck out and risk any more hurt. I fear he's just determined to move on.

 

I think we had a very nice conversation. But that bit at the end confuses me. If he didn't want to have anything to do with me, he could have just been polite, and asked a few questions about how I'm doing, given a few cursory responses to my questions, and then extricated himself. But he didn't. But then nor did he indicate in any way that there will be any future contact.

 

Please understand I love him very much and I am a very loyal person to those I love deeply, so I find I can't just let it go. My friends all think he has issues (with communication, with intimacy) and that he must know or feel that the person with something lacking is HIM. When he broke up with me, yelling, "It's over, Greencove," I fired back, "You're going to wake up when you're 50 and see some picture of me somewhere smiling and successful with my husband and two kids and a dog and you're going to regret this day," and he started to sob and said, "I know, I know." I don't want that day for both of us to come when we're 50. I know "time heals" and all that yadda yadda, but I also know that this was real, and my pain is real, and it's been intense and miserable enough and the loss feels tremendous enough that I will always have a mark from this, a tangle of regret and nostalgia...and knowing him I know that it's the same for him on some level. I feel this wild desperation that NOW is the time when we can prevent future regret, and I just don't know what to do.

 

Anyway, this post is long enough, though I could say more, much more. I'll refrain for now. Thanks for "listening"; responses welcome.

[bestadvisor]

Instead there was a pause, as there were pauses on both our sides at times in the conversation, and he sort-of mumbled, "Uh, yeah, maybe," in a tone that sounded like he coudl have said, "I don't think so." This was the only moment where I felt like I hit a wall; the rest of the conversation, as I said, I felt he was much more free with information than I could have anticipated. I said, "So we'll talk again," and his answer was so noncommittal I don't even remember what he said. And we hung up.

 

I thought you had better news than that. It seems that it's officially over. It seems like that he was being nice, just the way he would talk to an old friend (who has got into a disagreement or fight with him) he hasn't spoken to for a while.

 

In that conversation, you initiated two responses and both responses were "Nice Nos."

[tinke]

hey you...good to hear from you.

 

i've been very busy, but, you've passed my mind..wondering how things are going (we have similarities with our situations).

 

objectively speaking, first....remember when you said you would step back from analyzing everything/every word...if only...

well, here's your cue...STOP!

 

now, i would guess he DID receive your letter or will by forwarded mail, did you receive it returned?

 

it was good you got to speak with him, i do believe it was needed for you to move on one way or the other. but, your trying to figure out his message, isn't that like before? see, things really don't change, things would be as before. and you are still trying to make sense of the hidden thoughts. it's maddening, i'm sure!

 

you reached out...the next move is his. honestly G.C., it really is that simple. no matter the communication problems, fears, etc. he knows where you are, knows you would like to hear from him...but, it has to come FROM HIM. what more can you do?

 

you will know in time whether he is interested in meeting with you...he will contact you, if so. you did satisfy your urge to contact him, that has been completed. at this point, i don't know what else you can do.

 

have patience...the answers will come.

i would hope you had the opportunity to share some of your feelings from the break-up, some things you had been holding.

 

you now have the comfort in knowing you did reach out, you let him know your thoughts, no regrets!!!

 

it truly is all on him now!

in the meantime, continue taking care of you. keep posting, we are here for you!

[Zapbasket]

Hi Tinke,

 

objectively speaking, first....remember when you said you would step back from analyzing everything/every word...if only...

well, here's your cue...STOP!

 

You are so right and in fact I realized that myself. I thought, Here I am, so anxious and hopeful and immediately focusing on what was MISSING from our conversation, and not focusing on the fact that we had not only a civil conversation, but a pleasant if mutually cautious one. He sounded glad to hear my voice and he didn't seem ready to end the conversation and considering the angry stonewalling of before this is a wonderful thing. Really it's not fair of me to expect any more than this.

 

now, i would guess he DID receive your letter or will by forwarded mail, did you receive it returned?

 

If he received it before Sunday, he didn't mention it and neither did I. I thought it would introduce a 'weird' element into the conversation and so I just trusted that if he receives it (one never knows with the NYC Postal Service and forwarded mail), he will see the date and know I mailed it well before I called him.

 

it was good you got to speak with him, i do believe it was needed for you to move on one way or the other. but, your trying to figure out his message, isn't that like before? see, things really don't change, things would be as before. and you are still trying to make sense of the hidden thoughts. it's maddening, i'm sure!

 

I'm going to mull this one over. My first reaction is that you're very wise to say this. But then I find myself yes-butting and I don't know whether that's me not wanting to acknowledge the truth of what you say or whether the yes-but really is valid. The Yes-But here is: Ironically in this case I have genuine reason to try to read into every little thing. Remembering how that got me into trouble in the past, I see that I need to recognize that while it doesn't mean he wants to get back together, his comparative openness is a good thing as I think our conversation left us both with a feeling of relief that the tension and anger have subsided on both sides.

 

One thing I've thought about in recent months is that people all have different relationships with Emotion. Relationships with and attitudes towards emotion differ across cultures and between individuals. I have always thought that the ONE right kind of relationship to have with emotion is an honest, expressive one. I used to have an internal motto in my early 20s: "Anything discussed is better than anything not discussed." I was sooooo sure I was right. But this breakup has taught me that perhaps in order to be able to achieve your interpersonal goals with a range of personalilty types, you have to learn to accommodate people's different ways of handling and articulating emotion. I *don't* think it was fair of me to demand that my partner rise to "my level" in expressing and discussing emotion. that was not accepting of me, and I'm sure it felt bad to be on the receiving end of that [unintentional] lack of acceptance. Having lost him, frankly the trade-off for my stubbornness is not worth it to me. I'd rather have another chance with him and learn better ways of accommodating to his emotional reticence (and it's not like he was an inexpressive Block; he just has a lot of trouble discussing uncomfortable subjects), than to have lost him. After all, in general I encounter more people who are emotionally reticent than not; this patience and acceptance is something I need to learn, anyway. The price I have paid for not having learned it yet is just not worth not trying to change.

 

you reached out...the next move is his. honestly G.C., it really is that simple. no matter the communication problems, fears, etc. he knows where you are, knows you would like to hear from him...but, it has to come FROM HIM. what more can you do?

 

you will know in time whether he is interested in meeting with you...he will contact you, if so. you did satisfy your urge to contact him, that has been completed. at this point, i don't know what else you can do.

 

have patience...the answers will come.

 

As much as this holding on creates pain for me, I just don't have it in me yet to fully give up. I'm still working on moving forward with my life. But I know he was very hurt by all this, too; I imagined this to be the case and it was confirmed by our conversation. It might take a lot more--of time, of exposure to me if he's open to it--for him to feel like it's worth the risk to stick his neck out again. I know he felt he stuck his neck out in moving here for us a year ago and was greeted by an angry and terrified girlfriend and I know that had to hurt (even though of course he contributed to the unpleasantness with his attitude, comments, stonewalling, etc.). But he's the one who made the major life change and that fact alone is tough to swallow when all your expectations were dashed. So I recognize that I can't, perhaps, be too rigid in expecting that now that I've called him he should just want to talk to me again. After all, what's in it for him? From my pov, EVERYTHING, but I can see the other side: why should he risk receiving my anger at his abandoning me and stabbing me with that awful e-mail? Why should he risk my pushing to get back together which, if it's not what he wants, will only make him feel uncomfortable and guilty?

 

Am I wrong to think this way?

 

i would hope you had the opportunity to share some of your feelings from the break-up, some things you had been holding.

 

No, I didn't go there. I felt it was way too soon and would confirm to him that it wasn't safe to have any contact with me. I focused on listening and responding to what he was willing to share about his life, and in what I revealed I focused on the positive advances in my life. I didn't claim that things were great, because that would be a lie. But I felt it was important that he hear that I'm not all in tatters, pining over him (even though as we know I kinda am ). I think the only way anything could happen--towards reconciliation, towards building an amicable...something--is if I don't overwhelm him with too much emotion.

 

you now have the comfort in knowing you did reach out, you let him know our thoughts, no regrets!!!

 

it truly is all on him now!

in the meantime, continue taking care of you. keep posting, we are here for you!

 

Thanks so much, Tinke. You can't know what a boost it was to come home, check LS, and discover your supportive post. Now how are you doing? From the sound of it, much better, no?

[tinke]

hello G.C.

 

off to work...so this will be brief for now.

wierd as it may sound, our situations are VERY similar, our thoughts, emotions, etc.....so, i have been able to empathize with you along the way.

 

well...kudos to you for accepting that perhaps you do have a need to unveil every little detail, searching for more. remember..sometimes a cigar....is.......

simplify, my friend! (i say this with much kindness) if anything, you have learned to seize the moment, so don't allow yourself to return to the what ifs.

on this one, you will have to put your learned lessons into use..and simply enjoy the ride...take it SLOW.

 

i am so very tickled for you that you did in fact have that opportunity to speak with him. i am sure, that alone, had answered some questions for you: the tone of his voice, length of discussion, etc. so, relish in that for awhile. i can only imagine how very welcoming that must have been for you.

 

give it some time...i can detect, perhaps, you may be already plotting up some things to gain his interest...no? (smile!)

ok, G.C., i have followed you through this, and we have "spoken" many times, so i feel comfortable in saying.................................step back...and take your time.

you are VERY fortunate to have had ANY conversation with him....give him the space to process this.

 

good day to you...

[Zapbasket]

Thanks, Tinke, for your post. I've re-read it many times over the past several days and I will respond to it sometime this weekend.

 

I just had an exchange with one of my co-workers, a married man in his 40s. We were talking about how we both love the outdoors, and he mentioned a trip he took to Yosemite with his former girlfriend that she arranged and paid for for his birthday. I said, "Wow, that's a really nice birthday present." He replied, "It was. It basically was the last nice thing she did for me." I said, "Really? That's too bad." And he said, "Yeah, I probably deserved it...."

 

I said nothing more but wondered what he thought of this former girlfriend, now that he is married (for 2 years) to someone else. I wondered what made him realize that maybe he deserved his former girlfriend's "not nice" behavior, and whether he broke up with her because he felt she wasn't treating him well anymore and only in retrospect realized that perhaps he did much to provoke her anger towards him. I wondered whether, upon realizing that, he thought that maybe if he'd understood that at the time, they wouldn't have broken up.

 

I wondered these things because I can imagine that this is how my partner currently thinks of me: that at one time I was so loving, attentive, and "nice," and then by the last year of our relationship I became an angry banshee. When he broke up with me he asserted, "Basically, you treated me like sh*t," so my imaginings line up, I think.

 

The interchange with my co-worker gripped my heart. I cannot bear to think that my ex-partner feels wronged by me, so wronged that he doesn't even want to see me--maybe ever--and is determined to move on. I couldn't tell one way or another from our conversation. I just wondered whether I should, after waiting a few weeks, seize the bull by the horns and contact him once more, and cutting to the chase this time, maybe over e-mail. I'd tell him that while I have moved forward, I still miss him deeply. I'd tell him that the reason I was so angry was principally because I felt he never would step up to the plate and discuss plans for the future, only hitting me with, "I want kids within the next two years," without discussing marriage--I mean, the whole timeline was just impossible!--days before he broke up with me. I'd tell him I would really like to see him, but I don't want to pressure him.

 

Thoughts? I AM taking steps every day to move forward, but I just can't let this all go yet. I love him too much still.

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, sadly, he may not have the same love for you anymore and that is something you may have to accept. Email him to say sorry, pour your heart out, but do it to gain closure, not to win him back. If he hasn't contacted you at all, then he wants to be left alone.

 

I'm glad though that you had an eye opening chat with your co-worker. Put all that energy into fixing yourself so you CAN be a loving and non-angry person again in the future with someone else. Sometimes you can't go back, even if you want that person back.

[ookla_2]

Unfortunately, we don't always get closure. You have already sent the letter and talked to him on the phone. I'm afraid you've done all you can, and he doesn't want to discuss it further.

 

The best you can do now is work on yourself...learn from this past relationship and don't make the same mistakes in the next one. And know that there will be a next one - and you will love like this again.

 

I seem to recall that you are pretty young, correct? I only say this because if I am remembering correctly that you are, you have plenty of time to meet other men, date, and find a man who you will be grateful for someday, and so glad that this past relationship didn't work out. (I know, it's too soon to believe that now, but it will happen)

 

Best of luck to you, GC!!

[Zapbasket]

Thank you for your supportive replies, Ookla and WWIU. I want to respond to things you said in more detail but it will have to wait; I'm running out the door. Same applies to you, Underpants (thank you soooo much!) and Tinke.

 

Here's what I don't get: if he has no interest in further contact with me, and he KNOWS this, then why was he so open on the phone? I mean, if his mindset is that he really does not want to see me, why not have just given the basic polite answers to questions about his happenings, family, etc., and why have volunteered information beyond what I asked him about? Why not be itching to get off the phone? When I ended the call, I didn't feel at all that he was ready to hang up--and believe me, after several years of phone calls between us, I can sniff his desire to hang up from minutes away!

 

In a way, it would've been easier for me if he'd been nasty. Of course I"d have cried and been hurt for a while, but honestly, if he'd acted that way I'd feel put off. Why would I want to be with someone who was so attached to his grudges?

 

The way our conversation went gave me hope, even while I also feel hopeless because given who he is and everything that's happened I can't imagine him picking up the phone to say "hi" or to ask if we could meet, or even to wish me a happy birthday (my b-day is next week). But then, it seemed like he was PLEASED that I called.

 

I want to heed advice to just give up, but if I've ever cared deeply for someone, I just can't. I'm very much of a romantic that way, even while I'm also very practical. If he really no longer wants a relationship with me, now or in the forseeable future, I think that I can accept, but what I can't accept easily is his not wanting to see me after all the time we spent together. If he's truly over me, then what's the harm of his meeting with me? I want to see him because he deeply matters to me as a person, regardless of whether he wants to have a romantic relationship with me again or not. And I can't imagine that being the person he is, having spent the years he did with me and the hopes we had and his overall affection towards me and perhaps even idealization of me, he could at this point just really not care for me AT ALL. Also, if that is the case, then WHY be so responsive and open in our phone conversation?

 

Just very confused. And so wish I'd open my e-mail and find something from him. I'd think it would be so beneficial to us BOTH if we could meet and talk more about the present, but also talk about the past. Why would that be so threatening to him? Is that what's going on?

 

Ugh.

[tinke]

hi G.C.

 

just a quick note..........

good to hear from ya!

 

MAYBE, he misses the friendship you two had shared..thus, his interest in how your life is going.

 

MAYBE, he is reluctant to move into anything more..who knows.

BUT..you had made it clear that you would like to meet up, etc. and truly, i do believe, if there is any hope of this...you must step back and allow him the time to decide.

 

i don't believe ANY two people can share a lenghty period of time together and suddenly stop caring about the person..perhaps it may change to a different level of concern.

 

time will tell. you did good to "stick your neck out", you will have no regrets..you made the effort. not to sound like this is a dead horse here, but, i do believe, time is needed for him.

obviously he still cares, but to what extent?

 

take care

[norajane]

Here's what I don't get: if he has no interest in further contact with me, and he KNOWS this, then why was he so open on the phone? I mean, if his mindset is that he really does not want to see me, why not have just given the basic polite answers to questions about his happenings, family, etc., and why have volunteered information beyond what I asked him about? Why not be itching to get off the phone? When I ended the call, I didn't feel at all that he was ready to hang up--and believe me, after several years of phone calls between us, I can sniff his desire to hang up from minutes away!

 

In a way, it would've been easier for me if he'd been nasty. Of course I"d have cried and been hurt for a while, but honestly, if he'd acted that way I'd feel put off. Why would I want to be with someone who was so attached to his grudges?

 

The way our conversation went gave me hope, even while I also feel hopeless because given who he is and everything that's happened I can't imagine him picking up the phone to say "hi" or to ask if we could meet, or even to wish me a happy birthday (my b-day is next week). But then, it seemed like he was PLEASED that I called.

 

I want to heed advice to just give up, but if I've ever cared deeply for someone, I just can't. I'm very much of a romantic that way, even while I'm also very practical. If he really no longer wants a relationship with me, now or in the forseeable future, I think that I can accept, but what I can't accept easily is his not wanting to see me after all the time we spent together. If he's truly over me, then what's the harm of his meeting with me? I want to see him because he deeply matters to me as a person, regardless of whether he wants to have a romantic relationship with me again or not. And I can't imagine that being the person he is, having spent the years he did with me and the hopes we had and his overall affection towards me and perhaps even idealization of me, he could at this point just really not care for me AT ALL. Also, if that is the case, then WHY be so responsive and open in our phone conversation?

 

Just very confused. And so wish I'd open my e-mail and find something from him. I'd think it would be so beneficial to us BOTH if we could meet and talk more about the present, but also talk about the past. Why would that be so threatening to him? Is that what's going on?

 

Ugh.

 

Ugh, is right. This is why I keep saying closure comes from within, why I keep saying you have to accept it's over. You kept going over the same thoughts in your head before you contacted him, now you keep going over them again, just with a slightly different spin because you actually talked to him.

 

You can find infinite ways to analyze it, but it all comes down to the same thing: you want him back, you are not ready to let go, and he has done nothing to indicate he has any interest in starting anything with you.

In a way, it would've been easier for me if he'd been nasty. Of course I"d have cried and been hurt for a while, but honestly, if he'd acted that way I'd feel put off. Why would I want to be with someone who was so attached to his grudges?

 

I don't believe this for a minute. He was nasty to you when he ended it, and that didn't stop you from wanting him, nor did it stop you from contacting him again, nor has it stopped you from hoping you'll get back together. Don't fool yourself. Even if he had been nasty now, 6 months from now you'd be wondering if maybe *now* he was over it and would want to see you.

 

In his conflict avoidance way, he told you how he felt. He doesn't want to see you, and he doesn't intend to talk to you again. He gave you a no on both of your requests. Does he really need to be nasty for you to hear what he's saying instead of transposing your wishful thinking on what he didn't say?

[Zapbasket]

Ugh, is right. This is why I keep saying closure comes from within, why I keep saying you have to accept it's over. You kept going over the same thoughts in your head before you contacted him, now you keep going over them again, just with a slightly different spin because you actually talked to him.

 

You can find infinite ways to analyze it, but it all comes down to the same thing: you want him back, you are not ready to let go, and he has done nothing to indicate he has any interest in starting anything with you.

 

I don't know that I want him back. If he made such an offer, I'd have a lot of reservations. I want him in my life, and I guess I'm hoping for some opening that enables us to feel out some kind of interaction that feels comfortable. I just don't think people are expendable, or purely posts by which to spur and measure personal growth, i.e., objects. If he does, or if he does in regards to me, then I'm going to have to accept it. I mean, I'm having to accept it now, in increments; my life moves forward and because I'm honest I can see that my heart is a little slow to catch up. As a heart should be.

 

 

I don't believe this for a minute. He was nasty to you when he ended it, and that didn't stop you from wanting him, nor did it stop you from contacting him again, nor has it stopped you from hoping you'll get back together. Don't fool yourself. Even if he had been nasty now, 6 months from now you'd be wondering if maybe *now* he was over it and would want to see you.

 

You might be right...but then really I find I can't really hold people in high esteem who can close doors and never look back, never question things, who decide to see someone in one light forever and who don't have the creativity and flexbility or whatever it is that enables someone to recognize that people are constantly changing and growing and there's always the possibility that they could surprise you.

 

In his conflict avoidance way, he told you how he felt. He doesn't want to see you, and he doesn't intend to talk to you again. He gave you a no on both of your requests. Does he really need to be nasty for you to hear what he's saying instead of transposing your wishful thinking on what he didn't say?

 

lol, I think you're much more hard-minded than I am. By that I mean, you strip things to their absolutely pragmatic core and are able to follow suit emotionally. I think as I mature I might strengthen that capacity in myself. Almost everything you say to me I agree with. But I can't help this optimism and idealism that makes me think with people the door is never fully closed. Here's an example:

 

My friend since age 12 and I became estranged in our college years. We'd never had an argument, but I felt she could be very judgmental and snobby at times and so I never really felt inspired to try to contact her; she just kind-of slipped off my radar without any will on my part. One day when I was maybe 22, out of nowhere she showed up at my apartment. She'd looked me up in the phone book and had tried to call me but my line was busy, and since she was only about 20 blocks away she just showed up in person. Every time she came home in the succeeding years, she'd contact me; I never reciprocated--out of fear, or uncertainty, or perhaps even laziness, I guess. And then when we were 25, I had 7 weeks in between semesters in school in which I planned to do an independent study, and she begged me to please come stay with her in Boston, where she was in grad school. I was very unsure, but she pushed, and I went...and we rekindled a close friendship that is close to this day (it was during those weeks of staying with her, by the way, that I met my ex--it was an incredible time). I can honestly say that if she hadn't put in that effort to get back in touch with me, we might not be friends today. I was unsure about her, but her actions gradually made me sure, and now she's one of my dearest friends.

 

It's things like that that give me hope. I do really hate to see people I care about go, and maybe I'm a fool but I believe that my ex cares about me. I guess...I don't know when I should be complacent and accept things as they are, and when I should step up and take risks to get what I want where people are concerned. Usually when I take risks, I am rewarded. Maybe I've been spoiled . I guess that's why I have a hard time believing that he could really, truly, not want to see me again. On some level the idea is almost laughable to me; maybe that's bad.

 

I wish I could have the pat attitude you do, which is why I appreciate your input. I guess I also feel like, life itself has a pat attitude--we're rolled along whether we like it or not, in directions we cannot forsee, and really, we could just never have an attachment to anything or anyone, an no expectations, since most of our attachments and expectations will be thwarted anyway. One thing I admire about my ex is that he seemingly expects nothing from no one, which is why, I think, he can always be so affable--especially when in return nothing is expected of him. I wish I could be like that sometimes--I wonder whether not having expectations is the only way to be a truly accepting person? But then...he's not been very accepting of me all along.

 

Its discrepancies like this that have me confused, and I try to sort them out not only because of my feelings about him, but also because they allude to larger questions I'm asking myself about the kind of person I am and want to be. I know I have a lot of growing I need to do.

 

I hope you'll give me your thoughts on all this....

[tinke]

by the way, G.C. ......HAPPY BIRTHDAY in advance!

[Leikela]

Greencove,

 

I've been through a similar situation as you, but years ago. After not talking to an ex for almost a year, I contacted him. I made up some excuse as to why I had to ask him a question and that opened things up again. I didn't actually come out and tell him I wanted to see him. I did not have enough courage then. I think I was 21 at the time.

 

Anyway, we eventually got back together but it's not easy. It's always akward but with some patience, it potentially can happen. The relationship with my ex didn't work out though and I'm married to someone else but I can definitely relate to what you are going through. It's never easy!

[4whatItsWorth]

Here's what I don't get: if he has no interest in further contact with me, and he KNOWS this, then why was he so open on the phone? I mean, if his mindset is that he really does not want to see me, why not have just given the basic polite answers to questions about his happenings, family, etc., and why have volunteered information beyond what I asked him about? Why not be itching to get off the phone?

 

Girl, if you've read "He's just not that into you", you already have the answer...because guys would rather be trampled by a thousand elephants on fire than tell you the truth. This very same question was asked by a girl in that book - and she got an answer. Re-read the answer.

 

I'm sorry, but I just feel like you're wasting hopes, love and devotion on a guy who simply does not deserve it.

[norajane]

Here's what I don't get: if he has no interest in further contact with me, and he KNOWS this, then why was he so open on the phone? I mean, if his mindset is that he really does not want to see me, why not have just given the basic polite answers to questions about his happenings, family, etc., and why have volunteered information beyond what I asked him about? Why not be itching to get off the phone?

 

You answered that:

 

he can always be so affable--especially when in return nothing is expected of him

 

As soon as you asked about seeing him again or talking again, he stopped being so chatty and affable, right? When he saw you might have expectations of more than just a chat, he backed away.

 

As to the rest, you can keep the door open forever if you want. Think about it as creatively and flexibly, as optimistically and idealistically as you need to in order to keep it as wide open as you want. Doesn't mean he's ever going to walk through it. So it's your choice on what you do with your life while you're looking back to see if he's coming - and for how long.

[Izzy B]

He's Just Not That Into You.

He will contact you if that changes.

[tinke]

hello G.C. haven't seen you post in awhile.......how are you doing???