Should an apology for cheating be enough?

[nottoobright]

I am asked repeatedly by my friends and family and now from the people on this website why I stay with my husband if I am having such a hard time getting over him cheating on me. The fact of the matter is that I made a commitment to him and I still love him, I am so hurt and I am so angry that he did what he did but I didn't just fall out of love with him because if it.

 

Last night he and I where at the book store, it is my favorite place to spend an evening because there is a coffee shop and big cozy couches where they welcome you to curl up with a book and relax. I found a book called "After the affair", and within a few minutes I couldn't put the book down, it described to a "T" all the things I have been going through. I finished the first chapter and for the first time in two years felt some relief at the books explanation that what I have been going through is not my fault. For 2 years now my husband has blamed all of our fights and my depression, all of my anger and sadness on the fact that I "can't let it go and leave it in the past". This book explained that there are so many factors that affect how long it takes a person to recover from an affair such as how it was discovered, how it was explained or described once it was discovered, what was going on in the couples lives before the discovery, etc. It gave this desription that was the best way I'd heard someone descibe what happened with us, "which does more damage, a tornado that developed in the middle of a storm or a tornado that comes in out of the blue on a bright sunny day?" The day I found out about jim cheating was one of my "bright sunny days", it was a fairly new relationship and I was happier than I had been in a long time. We had spent a wonderful day and evening together and the last thing I expected was for him to choose that night to cheat on me.

 

But he did....... His reponse to me when I confronted him and asked him if he had scr*wed her was "as a matter of fact I did," when I asked him how or why it happened he gave me a very vivid, brutal picture of WHAT they did and when I pushed him for an answer to whether or not he used protection his answer was "except when they had oral sex".

 

For the last 2 years he's been telling me that "our marraige is failing because I won't let it go and leave it in the past." He's told me that he's "done all he can do by apologizing and it is my place to find a way to get over it." I don't believe he has cheated on me since, the fact that I have to see this woman at my doorstep every 2 weeks and watch him get anxious when she is coming over, the fact that she sends letteers home with the kids for him and he hoards them or carries them in his pocket and having to watch him at her car saying goodbye to her does nothing to set my mind at ease it is the fact that I know where he is every minute of the day that makes me sure he has not cheated since.

 

I still love him..... He needs me to take care of him because he is one of those men whose life would be in complete disarray without someone to take care of certain things and he would fall into this womans trap again if he were single. She nearly destroyed his life once and if they were back together she would destory him completely. Their marraige ended because she wanted to be free to "love" as many people as she wanted. When he was sleeping with her behind my back it wasn't because she still loved him and was sorry their marraige ended, it was a case of "I don't really want you, I just don't want anyone else to have you".

 

I still love him.... I am not completely niave to the fact that people make mistakes and he made a huge one. I understand that he is human and has faults just like I do. He has apologized to me more times than I can remember. I'm still not over it.

 

This book I was reading said that the reason some people have a harder time dealing with it is because of the way it is handled afterwards. I can't accept his apology, I won't accept his apology until it is an actual apology.

He says "I'm sorry but I was really f#cked up, I tried to be honest with you." He says "I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt you, I didn't know it was going to hurt you". Last night he even said that "because we weren't married at the time it wasn't really cheating", according to him the relationship wasn't a committed relationship because neither of us had actually said the words "I commit myself to you". I told him that as soon as we both made the decision to no longer practice safe sex because we had been tested and were sure that the other was disease free, it became a committed relationship at least in the concept of being monogomous, his relpy was that "the reason he made that decision was because he wanted to show me that he trusted me and that I trusted him." I asked him if he mean't that "he was showing me that he trusted me and I COULD trust him." He said no, "it showed him that I trusted him".

 

Its been 5 weeks since we've been intimate which is not unusual for us, not because of me but because he doesn't want to. The longer I go without any intimacy with him the worse my anger and depression gets. I love him but I feel so unloved. He see's me as being "lucky to have him."

It is Friday morning, I so dread Friday mornings because I know when he comes home from work I'll be stuck with him and his excuses all weekend. Fridays and Saturdays are my days off from work as a telephone operator, there is NO job more boring but lately I have been working my days off just to keep my mind occupied, I have no life anymore it is work or fight about his cheating.

 

Is it too much to ask a man who was unfaithful for an apology without conditions? A simple "I'm sorry" instead of "I'm sorry but I tried to be honest", or "I'm sorry I didn't know this was going to hurt you." He has even gone so far as to say that he didn't realize the disease risk he was taking, he is a paramedic of course he knew, he just didn't care. Should his apology be enough at this point considering that I am quite sure that is the best it is going to get?

 

I do still love him, I've put everything I am and everything I have into this relationship/marraige. That is why I am still with him and fighting to "get over this."

[PandorasBox]

For the last 2 years he's been telling me that "our marraige is failing because I won't let it go and leave it in the past." He's told me that he's "done all he can do by apologizing and it is my place to find a way to get over it."

 

I'm by no means trying to be on your h's side or justify what he has done, however, his statement to you is not far off. What he did wasn't good, but YOU did decide to stay with him correct? I really don't think its going to happen overnight, you wont get past it quickly or anything, it will take time. However, you have to be willing to at least try to put some of this behind you and begin the healing process so you can move forward in your relationship, if its what you truly would like to do. Also, he shouldn't make you feel alone in the healing process, you both should pull together as a team and try to support one another in the marriage, if you both are willing to try to get past this.

 

I don't know your whole story and I didn't read the whole post, but is him saying he was sorry the only thing that has been done since this happened? Or have you all been to marriage counseling? If not, I would suggerst you all seek counseling together. If he wont go, you could still go for yourself. A professional may have better answers as far as what you may need to do etc.

[lostboy60645]

I'm with PB on the marriage counseling.

 

I'd take it a few steps further and also go to group therapy and individual therapy. My wife is doing all of that, and finally she decided to leave me for cheating on her.

 

Last night she commented that she's never felt better in our relationship as now--now that our divorce will be finalized in the coming weeks.

 

Because we have kids, we'll always have to deal with one another, as it sounds like your husband does with his ex wife if I'm reading the story right.

 

But my sbew is much healthier than a person who'd want another lustful fling. She's learned good boundaries and also is much more assertive for herself--a true benefit to her life all the way around.

 

So while I'm sad that it came to this, I'm glad the mother of my kids seems so much healthier today than she did prior to getting all of that therapy.

 

Think about it

[syz]

Sorry but your husband is still blameshifting it sounds like. He is holding the healing over what he has done over your head and it isn't right. He needs to ask you what he can do to help you not blame you for how you are feeling. He sounds like he wants to say he is sorry one thousand times and that should be enough and it isn't.

 

The more of it is you have to see his ex and truly that does set back your healing more than anything as well. Usually No contact is in order for people to really move on. Affairs typically take 2-5 years to heal from if at all. And that is with the person who cheated basically doing everything right. NO trickle down truth, no blameshifting, going no contact, being transparent with passwords email etc.

 

He even changes his story to now say it wasn't cheating because you weren't married. Well sorry but that is total **** he is just taking himself off the hook. don't you see your feeling are even less important and further invalidated.. it wasn't really cheating and now its your fault you can't get over it. That is just cruel.

 

He needs help and so do you. the other possibility is that you cannot get over it, he isn't remorseful enough which is why I think you are having a truly harder time healing from this and that and he sounds like he takes you for granted. Regardless of the love you have, which may not be enough, you need to take a real hard look at your relationship and see if it can be repaired in anyway that is nourishing to your soul and if it can't because he isn't capable go forward from there. This is YOUR life.

[norajane]

I've read your other thread. Sorry, but you need to leave this man. I don't understand why you won't. His heart isn't in this marriage, and likely still belongs to his ex-wife. She's not going to just disappear, and his feelings for her won't either.

 

You got involved with him when you were vulnerable after your divorce. You don't need to stay with him when he treats you like crap, cheating aside.

[PandorasBox]

I've read your other thread. Sorry, but you need to leave this man. I don't understand why you won't. His heart isn't in this marriage, and likely still belongs to his ex-wife. She's not going to just disappear, and his feelings for her won't either.

 

You got involved with him when you were vulnerable after your divorce. You don't need to stay with him when he treats you like crap, cheating aside.

 

 

I agree with this. I was the one who orginally said you needed to seek counseling if you both wanted it to work, but that was before I knew you had the other thread going. The other thread was made before this one, where you were really angry and now in this one you're wondering if his apology is enough. My question to you is, what do you think you should do? Even if you are seeking his apology, that doesn't mean he will stop doing anything.

[syz]

PS and no an apology is just a beginning of the process but not the solution.

[nottoobright]

First of all, thank you for the advice, all. Unfortunately I am getting conflicting advice which makes this so much harder. Some says if I chose to make this work then I need to get over it and some says that I SHOULD leave. Just to be completely clear I'll tell how the whole thing happened.

 

Jim and I began seeing each other after my first divorce from a man whom I'd discovered had been in a homosexual relationship throughout our 10 yr. marraige. My ex and I had stopped having any sexual contact about 2 years into the marraige because he told me that his doctor told him he was allergic to my body fluids and it was making him really sick. I now know that it was because he used me to cover up his "secret life" and it was because he was gay. I got a huge divorce settlement as well as our 4 bedroom home and 10 acres, my ex husband was a financial planner and had made alot of money during our marraige.

 

Jim had divorced a year and a half earlier because his ex wife wanted to be with the man she had been cheating on him with. She left Jim and their children to move 1200 miles away to be with this guy. He was devestated when she left him, they had been married for 17 years and had 3 children. Although he knew that she'd keep cheating he accepted it and even offered to let her have an "open marraige". She wanted out.

 

I fell head over heels in love with Jim, he was sweet, romantic, funny and offered great sex which I'd not had in years. We both jumped headfirst into a relationship seeing each other every day. I admit that the first night we went out he had told me that "they had tried to work it out and had still been somewhat sexually active." In other words when there was noone else available she would come have sex with Jim. Within a few weeks we were seeing each other every day. I would have NEVER thought they were still sleeping together, we were together all the time. She never came to see the kids, always had an excuse why she couldn't take them for her visitation, I suspected that it was because she didn't want us to have time alone.

 

Jim would get really weird some nights and rush me out of his house, always around 11:00pm saying that he was tired or the weather was about to get bad. He is a night owl so I would find it strange especially since most nights I stayed until 12:30 or 1:00, but couldn't really put my finger on it. I would just go home. One night about 6 months after we'd met and about 4 months into what had become a more serious relationship, actually it was the night after my birthday Jim and I had gone out to dinner. We had taken all of the kids, his and mine (5 total) and I treated everyone to pizza and arcade games and it had been a wonderful night. Jims daughter had been talking about the fact that her dad hardly ever buys fruit and she loves fruit, his sons agreed and said how nice it would be to have some fruit in the house. After dinner instead of us all going back to his house (my house was further away so I always went to his house), this Saturday night he decided he was tired and he wanted us to part ways at the resturaunt. It was only 10:00 and me and my boys didn't really want to call it a night. My sons are a little older than his kids and wanted to hang out somewhere cause it was the weekend. I went to Walmart and we bought a huge basket, tons of fruit and some other goodies like little stuffed dolls and matchbox cars, things like that. Kim called me at midnight to say goodnight and make sure I was home. I told him I was but i was really in the parking lot of walmart turning all of these things I'd bought into a fruit basket that I was going to leave on his doorstep for the kids to find in the morning. Lokking back I know it was stupid but I loved these people and I wanted to do something nice for them.

 

It had gotten pretty late and my kids were getting tired so I drove them home and took the fruit basket to Jim's house, I pulled into the driveway and found what looked like her red car in the driveway. I backed out and drove halfway home. Realizing that Jim had a red pickup truck and my mind was just playing tricks on me I drove back and sure enough it was her car. Well needless to say the birds ate well that night, I threw the basket out the window on my way back home.

 

The next day after work I drove to Jims house and confronted him, his reply like I said was "as a matter of fact I did." I ended it but within a few days called him because I missed him so much. We didn't talk about it right away but one night Jim wanted to confess, he told me again the story of how their marraige ended explaining to me that he still loved her but them being together was causing too much stress on the kids and she wanted to be free to screw around. Somehow he went from telling me that one night that he still loved her to telling me 20-30 times a day, for months. Meanwhile she decided she wanted him back so one night she confronted both of us and told him he had to decide. He told her that he chose me but he would not tell her when she asked that it was over between them.

 

I moved in with him shortly thereafter and about a week later his ex-wife started calling at 6:00am to say good morning to him and the kids. He began what I tell him was an emotional and psychological boxing match with my heart and my mind. She would call, he would talk to her for a few minutes then on his way out the door he would annonce, "you know I love you and your mama loves you." Then he began this thing where he wanted to make sure his kids were o:k with me being there and he would ask them to come talk to us, every night he did this. He would ask them if there was anything they wanted to talk about, how things were going with me being there then he would remind them (in fron of me) that he still loved their mama and if she could have stopped the fighting things would have been different.

 

She turned into an emotional, clingy, needy wench who all of a sudden had to talk to Jim 20 times a day to tell him that he was her soulmate and she wanted to die in his arms, begging him to take her back. She would tell him that she was afraid i was going to steal her kids away from her, she couldn't stand the idea of me cooking and cleaning for them, washing their laundry and making their beds. Jim and i decided that it might make it easier on her if she met me and could see that I am not a bad person. I went and had coffee with her and it was the most miserable 6 hours of my life. She told me every intimate detail of their life together, told me stories of thing he'd done, things she's done, that she still loved him etc... I came home and couldn't even look at Jim. He finally made me tell him all the things she'd said and he explained to me that she has her masters degree (literally) in psychology and she'd just played a game with me. He asked that if she call back, I record it and he bought me a tiny tape recorder. She asked me out for coffee 3 more times and Jim made me go, begged and pleaded that I get it on tape. Each time it was 6-7 hours of her whinning about wanting him back, loving him, then it would turn into rage at all the bad things he had done to her and how he couldn't possibly love me because they were soulmates meant to be together. I finally told Jim that I couldn't do it anymore. It would leave me almost unable to function and having him replay the tapes over and over in front of me was killing me.

 

Then he started with the "I still love her" even more, I told him he had to end it with either her or me. He finally called her to tell her that he DID love me and we were going to be married, she showed up an hour later to plead with him not to end it with her. She kept asking if it was over for her and he kept saying he didn't know what the future held, after about 5 hours she asked if she "had lost the ballgame" and he finally told her "she had lost the ballgame"

 

Again with the "I still love her", now he had to go meet with her whenever they needed to discuss the kids. He would meet her at a local coffee house and leave me at home with his kids. She began breaking into the house sometimes destroying my things, leaving jewelry and clothing in my bed, etc. He would never call the police for the same reason he always gave "I do still love her and don't want to hurt her."

 

All this time we never brought up the cheating. One night he had taken me out for a date night becuase I had been complaining that our sex life had dwindled down to maybe once a month and he was treating me like a maid. I had a few drinks too many and apparently was "flirting" with the singer on stage. The next day we had our first fight. I didn't remember "flirting" but i brought up the fact that if I had flirted at least I hadn't slept with anyone else, he gave me some BS excuse as to why he'd slept with her and it started from there.

 

Shortly thereafter he found out that she liked going to some nightclub on Thursday nights so for a long time he wanted to take me to that club every thursday night so that "seeing us would ruin her night". I allowed it a few times but then it dawned on my why does he care?

 

About this time I we had been together for a little over a year and I had already spent better than $60,000.00 of my divorce settlement on him and his kids and it was time for her to go after her for the child support she owed him, at this point she was somewhere around $12,000.00 in arrears. I wasn't blaming him for the things I'd bought for the kids, I was blaming her for things the kids needed that he wasn't able to provide because he'd gotten in debt when she ceased paying child support. I would get angry at times like when he asked me to buy a $200.00 external hard drive and I found out it was so he could save all her nude pictures that he had on the computer and things like that.

 

We had been talking about me paying the $55,000.00 he had left on his mortgage and me paying off his $20,000.00 in credit card debt until one day when he'd gotten behind on his mortgage payment and they called here for him or her. I asked him, "if I pay off this house are you going to take her name off of it and will me name be on it." He told me no, partly because he liked knowing he could tell me to GTFO (get the F out). The next time he asked I told him no I wasn't going to pay off the house because it wouldn't be too smart an investment for me. He asked about paying off the credit cards and after discussing it I found that they had gotten so high because he was taking cash advances to pay her rent, car insurance, buy her gifts, etc. So sorry, I was born at night but not last night. I gave him enought money to pay a years worth of bills, everything except the mortgage and his credit cards, I buy all the food for this family and I do all the housework, cooking etc. I thought that was plenty fair. He used the money I gave him to catch up on all of his credit cards etc and when it was gone he expected me to pay the bills too. I told him no, that money had been intended to pay monthly bills not to go to the credit cards. Now his paycheck barely stretches to pay the monthly bills, so he says HE pays all the bills around here. B.S.

 

Finally I told him "look, I'm paying your kids dental and doctor bills, I buy all their clothing, food etc. Time to go get your child support." When he did she decided to take him to court for contempt and she made a lot of Bs. allegations about me even going so far as to say that I stopped her from seeing her kids. In all reality, there are 5 kids living in this house, I welcome some of them being gone for a weekend. That legal bill came to over $11,000.00. Even through all of this he still would say to me and to his lawyer in front of me "I still love her". He is angry at me right now because I won't give him the last $5,000.00 to pay his lawyer and he ain't got it.

 

Periodically we were having fights, it kept hitting me that it was THIS woman that he hurt me for. The more I brought it up the more stupid excuses he gave me which would lead to another fight. His reply would alweays be "either divorce me or get over it." His most famous excuse is he was "f*cked up and didn't know what he was doing", or "I tried to be honest with you." Honest how?? They weren't trying to repair their former marraige, if they had he would not have been seeing someone else. He never told me when they would see each other and if I hadn't caught him it would have continued.

 

I can't explain really why I was able to deal with it for so long then all of a sudden it became a problem for me. I know that back then whenever I would think about it i would remind myself that I love him. I don't know, all i know is it has become such a huge problem for me. Maybe it is all the excuses, maybe it is having to see her all the time. Maybe it is because of all the things he's said to me, maybe it is because our sex life has become non-existant. Actually that is what started the first fight!! We had gone almost 2 months without any sex and I asked him why, he said it was because he has a low sex drive and I told him "that didn't make any sense since for months he had been sleeping with both of us and that shows a pretty high sex drive." That's it right there, that is what started the whole problem for me, He still loved her and had sex with her because he still loved her.... Period.

 

It will be 8 more years before his youngest turns 18, this woman will be in our lives for 8 more years, every other weekend, every Wednesday and Sunday we will have to keep the phone free so she can call, every holiday (he agreed to share holidays in this last leg of mediation) she will pick the kids up at 2:00pm.

 

I don't think I will survive with my sanity 8 more years of him walking out to the car to talk to her or him watching his watch to see how much longer until she arrives to pick the kids up. It eats away at me and makes me want to die. 8 more years of her sending letters home with the kids for him that begin with, Dearest Jim. Watching him walk around with it in his shirt pocket for a day or two, reading and rereading them.

 

I want something that resembles a life, I am only 40 years old. All I do is cook, clean and work. If I ask for sex too often he will tell me I am a pervert, if I ask him to be more romantic he tells me he nearly bankrupted himself buying her flowers so being romantic is a waste, If I ask him just to talk me through some of my pain he tells me I am just looking for a fight or he will get real ugly and discriptive about what he did with her (sexually).

 

Most days I feel like I am dying a little at a time. I am a cutter and the habit is getting worse and worse, I am afraid one day I am going to cut myself beyond repair and my kids will be left without a mother.

 

By the way we did go to a counselor. It cost me $150.00 a week for my counselor to tell me that he agreed with my husband, she caused him sufficient damage and I needed to get over it on my own. He suggested that when i felt like i needed to talk to my husband about it I should write a private letter to myself about what I am feeling. After the second or third time of my husband showing up late and hearing my counselor tell me something completely different than what he was saying when my husband was there I decided I would save my $600 bucks a month.

 

Well now that I've bored everyone to tears and I feel like I am going to puke, time to get the kids off the bus and wait for Mr. Wonderful to arrive so I can go pick up my paycheck and do the grocery shopping, listen to the kids and watch my husband dance around until she arrives to pick up the kids and flirt with my husband in the driveway for an hour. Nice life!!!

[lostboy60645]

Cutting is a tough problem to have. I've not had the issue, but I've known some who have.

 

It's also a bit of a metaphor, if you'll excuse me for it, that you can really use the energy that goes into the self-mutilation to put yourself in a better place and cut off this relationship.

 

I'm so sad to hear how he seems to continue to mistreat you. I hope it's not that you feel you 'deserve' this abuse.

 

He's got his own best interests in mind, it seems. It also feels like you express more love and caring for him and his kids (and your kids, I'm sure) than you do for your own self.

 

Perhaps it's time to take a step back, separate for a period, and rethink this after you have had some time to sort it out with one of them expensive fancy counselors. It's going to cost you less for the counselor than to bail this guy out of his debt and keep paying for his kids--something neither of their parents seem to be able to do.

 

Please take care of yourself--somebody has to!

[EnigmaXOXO]

This is absolutely horrible. The more I read, the worse it got, to the point where I was actually feeling sick to my stomach for you.

 

The ex wife, as bad as she sounds, is no where near as f*cked in the head as this guy is. Sorry sweetie, I know you think you love Jim, but it would do absolutely no good to call it as anything other than it is.

 

He uses you as a pawn in his “jealousy bait” game so that he can continue to exact revenge on his wife for the audacity of leaving him. And at the same time, punishing you for what someone else did. He sends you off with a recorder to play PI (do his dirty work) so he could revile in the joy of hearing her confessions of love and regret. And showed absolutely no concern for your feelings or discomfort while he was all too happy to set you up. Quite smug with himself that he has two women happy to dance on his puppet strings. He uses you as a maid and nanny, than in front of you reminds everyone of your second-class citizenship in that household. And tells you over and over again how much he still loves the other wife. And if all of that isn’t enough to make you barf on your shoes ... he badgers you for money and demands that you also take on all the financial responsibility of supporting him, the kids and the other wife, too.

 

She began breaking into the house sometimes destroying my things, leaving jewelry and clothing in my bed, etc. He would never call the police for the same reason he always gave "I do still love her and don't want to hurt her."

 

He protects her, not you.

 

I asked him, "if I pay off this house are you going to take her name off of it and will me name be on it." He told me no, partly because he liked knowing he could tell me to GTFO (get the F out).

 

Translation: I need you only to provide me with certain things. However, you are disposable.

 

He used the money I gave him to catch up on all of his credit cards etc and when it was gone he expected me to pay the bills too.

 

Freeloader taking advantage of a vulnerable woman.

 

Even through all of this he still would say to me and to his lawyer in front of me "I still love her". He is angry at me right now because I won't give him the last $5,000.00 to pay his lawyer and he ain't got it.

 

Anger at not having his unreasonable demands met = extortion and emotional manipulation.

 

If I ask for sex too often he will tell me I am a pervert, if I ask him to be more romantic he tells me he nearly bankrupted himself buying her flowers so being romantic is a waste, If I ask him just to talk me through some of my pain he tells me I am just looking for a fight or he will get real ugly and descriptive about what he did with her (sexually).

 

Oh ... My ... God.

 

No marriage counseling is going to be able to fix all that is wrong here...or repair a relationship that never really existed outside of hope and wishful thinking. But perhaps some individual counseling to help you regain some clarity would absolutely give you what you need to remove yourself from this horrible situation. You are being used and taken advantage of BIG TIME. From the beginning, there has never been any basis for a genuine, loving relationship ... nor a sham of a marriage. This individual is CRUEL. Although I know it’s not what you were hoping to hear, you need to get away from this abusive b*stard as fast as you can while you still have a dime to your name and a shred of sanity and self-respect left.

 

And notice ... all reasons you’ve given above are truth enough without even having to address the “cheating” part. Why is it that you dislike yourself so much that you would even think for a moment that you deserve to be mistreated by someone like this? You’re still cutting yourself sweetie, just in a different way.

[Mr. Lucky]

You need help, nottobright. IC and therapy would allow you to discover why you would remain with such a soulless, debased, morally bankrupt excuse for a spouse and then still claim "but I love him". He sounds like evil incarnate, but what does that say about you that you would continue to subject yourself (and your kids!) to this insanity? I'd take the $5K he wants for his lawyer and spend it on a hitman...

 

Mr. Lucky

[lostboy60645]

Quite the assesment above--I'm glad people are so eloquent in a forceful but respectful way.

 

I'd just like to chime in that I too suffer from self-esteem problems and I think that, my dear, is a problem that only you can seek help for.

 

Life is hard enough as it is, even if a person is perfect, which is not possible.

 

To give yourself the best chance of surviving and thriving in any relationship, you have to get the counseling to explore where you are at from a professional's perspective, where you come from, and where you can be.

 

And for G-d's sake don't get the hit man!