midlifebob Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 My wife and I have been married for nearly 30 years, since our late teens. We've raised 2 children and they've been gone for 6 years now. Ever since they left, my wife and I have been drifting apart emotionally. I've taken up new activities outside the house, which she does not share. I've met new friends who invite me out, but my wife does not like to go. She's a bit of a nervous person, more so now than before. She's not very active. She likes to garden and read, and stay around the house. Our sex life started out pretty normal for young people, but sex was always more important to me than to her. Over the years, sex became increasingly less interesting for her. She's not a sexy person by nature. She dresses plainly and is uncomfortable acting sexy. She is downright awkward in bed. Over the years, sex became uncomfortable for her. Ultimately, all she wanted me to do was to stimulate her with my hands, with maybe 30 seconds of vaginal sex at the end for me. She claims this discomfort is a natural result of age and childbirth, and refused to see anyone about it. About 8 years ago we stopped having sex. I became very depressed. My wife recognized this and was concerned. She thought I had erectile dysfunction. I don't; I'm able to masturbate and so so in the shower sometimes. She doesn't know this. She told me about 3 years ago that she was ready to have sex whenever I wanted to. But I know that she doesn't really like the sex, she feels obligated to say she is willing. About 4 years ago, I realized I was going to kill myself with weight and booze. I made an effort, curtailed my drinking and lost a lot of weight. My interest in outside activities has increased. I have taken up sailing, a pastime I always liked but now it's my passion. I have a sailboat and I race on teams. The exercise and activity has been wonderful for me. I really think it saved my life. This new sport has in turn introduced me to new friends as well. There are frequent gatherings of people after the races, and parties. What I really want to do now is save some money and then spend a few years sailing around. None of this is interesting to my wife. She is OK with being on the boat in calm conditions but would never race, and I can't afford the kind of boat that would make comfortable enough. She's not athletic and is nervous on boats. She is focused on the house and her job. She works long hours at an office--I work at home. She does not come home often until 9 or later at night. We still love and respect each other, but there's no passion, and we don't like the same things. We've diverged. And we're not having sex, and it doesn't seem likely we'll start again. And now I've meet a really lovely woman who shares all my same interests. We have a lot in common and enjoy each other's company. It's platonic so far, we've really only done some sailing together. But she has re-awakened my sex drive. She's done nothing to encourage me, it's just that being around her, I can see what it would be like to have a partner that shares my life with me, not just a house. It's everything I can do to keep my hands off her, but she's made it clear she's not interested in an affair with a married man. Now I'm overwhelmed trying to think what to do. I need some help thinking about this. I've been doing a lot of reading about male mid-life crisis, and I realize that a lot of what I'm dealing with can be attributed to that. But does that mean this is all my fault? That I just need to drop the things I like and join my wife in her early old age lifestyle? And go back to unrewarding sex that is focused only on her needs? I'm considering asking her to start marriage counseling with me. But I'm afraid of the pain I will drag her through as I'm forced to talk about all these things. And I can't imagine what the counselor will come up with to fix this. Our sexual dysfunction didn't happen overnight, it developed over years, and my wife was not willing to change how we had sex. It doesn't seem possible to fix it now, after all these years. Is it better for both of us to call it off while we're still fairly young? She'd be able to do what she wants, and so would I, without the stress caused by our divergent lives. I know she would be very unhappy to divorce. I'd be unhappy too, but hell! I'm unhappy now, and so is she. I hope someone can help me clarify this.
IpAncA Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Do not even think about starting up an affair. You'll really cause your W pain.I'd try and get her into MC and try getting interests you both like and can share together.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Hi Bob. I have some questions before I comment. You say that you now have friends and get invited out to do things etc... Do you still go without your wife and if so how does she feel about it. Is she complacent? Does she feel resentful? Does she ask about what you do when you are out? Why does your wife work such long hours? She must either really love her job or like the people she works with to be so focused on it. Does she socialize at work or have any friends outside of work? Is work a way to avoid home? Did she work this much before the kids left home? How much contact does she have with the children? Very frequent or is she just into her job / gardening etc...? I also have a question about the woman that you have developed feelings for. Do you see her in the normal course of doing activities or have you begun to see her on your own without others? How much have you seen her so far and how much time have you had to really talk? From the details you gave so far... I just could not be in the marriage. I would go insane. However, I ask so many questions because I feel like I'm not getting the full picture. It seems like you have changed a lot while your wife has remained basically the same. Am I right in this assumption? Also, I'm sure the kids leaving took away much of what you have in common. It seems we lose ourselves while raising the kids and you just don't even know what things you like anymore. What did you have in common before children? Did you have much couple time without children or did you go quickly from couple to family?
mourningMM Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 drifted away into an emotional relationship with another woman he sailed with. 1) Are you being honest with yourself, or have you already been unfaithful by talking about your wife with this woman? 2) Would you be comfortable if your wife was in the same room as this woman? If not...you are having an affair. If you didn't have a good sexual relationship with your wife for years, that is a president that you agreed to by your participation in the relationship for years. If your wife offered to have sex three years ago and you have not taken her up on it, well, that is a choice you made. Both of you sound like you need counseling so that you think of it as MAKING LOVE not HAVING SEX. Besides...offering sex; needing sex...I notice you already don't use the word love with the physical intimiacy that a husband shares with a wife. THAT IS A PROBLEM. Frankly the fact that you called this new friend LOVEly is an indication that you have a crush. Take advantage of the lust the other woman (because for God's sake realize that is what she is) creates and use it to fuel a new creative sensitive relationship with your wife. A heartfelt plea of someone whose husband destroyed a family: Don't let your fear of facing a long term dysfuction become an excuse for forgetting your committment "for better or worse 'til death do us part". Don't be a typical "me-generation" lemming that decides because it is easier to be happy separately it is better to do that than to do the hard work it takes to be a grown-up.Don't assume that you know the future, or the past even....it sounds like you and your wife would have worlds of exploration to do. Learn to compliment each other in a healty way, supporting each other as you address the problems one-by-one. Really...you have an opportunity here, don't spend your energy imagining a future without her. Because the energy you spend in creating that future is strength you sap from your marriage. That is the energy that you could spend looking at the things your wife is great at; the things you do have in common. You are focusing on the differences... I re-read your post and over-all, it sounds like you are trying to justify an action that your family might not be proud of youfor doing. A final note...you are in a marriage, this is not your decision to make. You have an obligation to your wife to allow her to participate in the decision making process. If you make the decision by yourself, you then take on the responsibility for the damage caused by the abandonment. I pray all men and women that feel like you do appreciate the difference between being another casualty of the "me generation mentality" and finding the strength to conciously decide to grow back together and become inter-dependent instead of independent.
Author midlifebob Posted August 24, 2007 Author Posted August 24, 2007 EmotionallyYours: Lots of questions... Do I go racing without my wife? Yes, I don't think I made myself clear about this. Offshore yacht racing is strenous work, cold, wet and dangerous. She absolutely would not do this with me. And she does not enjoy the after-race parties. She's visited some and they're just not for her. I don't think she resents it, she knows I like it and she has other things to do. She works long hours because she likes the work and because she has a very strong sense of duty. Her work is crisis-oriented; when emergencies or disasters happen, she has to stay late. She works more hours than others with the same job, because she's a very concientious person. She has always been an over-achiever at work, before, during and after having the kids. Whereas I used to be very hard-working but am now moving towards a more balanced work/life mix. She has lots of contact with our daughter, who lives close. And my wife's sister lives next door, they work on the house & yard together, it's what they like to do. She does have a few girl friends she occasionally sees outside of work, plus her family (lots of sisters and a mother) who she stays busy with. As for me and my girl friend: she's really just a friend who is a woman. It's not a romance, much as I would want it to be. It's not an affair as another poster warned me about: I think I made that clear before, I'm not trying to have an affair. We've sailed together alone a couple times. I've told her I'm very attacted to her. She's told me she likes me but wants to be just friends. Realistically, I don't think there's a relationship there, but it's made me realize how much I WANT to have one with a partner who shares my interests. Re who has changed: Yes, I'm the one who changed more as far as life interests go. But she's the one who changed more sexually, going from a fairly typically horny 20 year old girl to a very low sexed woman in the span of 20 years or so. We had 4 years together before the kids came along. We were happy just being together. But as I've aged, I've become less satisfied with a simple home life. I have this feeling that I only have a few years left where I could go out and sail the world. I can't accept that I've missed my chance, and I can't take my wife with me. I want a companion who likes what I like. Am I being selfish? Should I just suck it up and do what I need to do to make my wife happy? I know that's the dutiful thing to do...but it's hard to accept.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 EmotionallyYours: Lots of questions... She's visited some and they're just not for her. I don't think she resents it, she knows I like it and she has other things to do. I was more interested in the party part. So it seems that she trusts you to go to these without her and is not worried or suspicious about this leading to other things. This is good actually. If she tried to stop this...it would cause more resentment from you and strain things more. She works long hours because she likes the work For this one... I wanted to see if there were other reasons for this. I used to work too much to avoid going home and wanted to see if this is the case. This is good too. She really loves her job which shows she can have passion for something. She does have a few girl friends she occasionally sees outside of work, plus her family (lots of sisters and a mother) who she stays busy with. She does have socialization outside of your relationship which is also excellent. As for me and my girl friend: she's really just a friend who is a woman. It's not a romance, much as I would want it to be. It's not an affair as another poster warned me about: I think I made that clear before, I'm not trying to have an affair. We've sailed together alone a couple times. I've told her I'm very attacted to her. She's told me she likes me but wants to be just friends. Realistically, I don't think there's a relationship there, but it's made me realize how much I WANT to have one with a partner who shares my interests. This IS bad. If you have talked to her about attraction and other stuff... then actually yes you are having a "sort" of affair. If you say things around this woman that you would not say in front of your wife... technically it is cheating. Believe me... I know... I am doing my best to break out of an emotional affair (EA) now. It is so painful and hard. Be careful very careful... An EA is like super glue. You get attached so easily... but getting unattached really stinks. Re who has changed: Yes, I'm the one who changed more as far as life interests go. But she's the one who changed more sexually, going from a fairly typically horny 20 year old girl to a very low sexed woman in the span of 20 years or so. This has gone on way too long and I really don't know if this could be fixed at this point. If you want to stay with the wife, you really have to do something. Is it that she doesn't like sex or is it also that you are no longer attracted to her and don't want it to work anymore either. Do you have a nice hot toned bod now while she is the typical middle aged woman? Can you get her to get into shape with you? She will start feeling sexier just from looking and feeling better. We had 4 years together before the kids came along. We were happy just being together. But as I've aged, I've become less satisfied with a simple home life. I have this feeling that I only have a few years left where I could go out and sail the world. I can't accept that I've missed my chance, and I can't take my wife with me. I want a companion who likes what I like. I understand how you feel that doing the thing you are passionate about alone for extended periods of time doesn't seem very romantic. To fulfill this dream you need to either leave you wife behind and do this alone or leave your wife and find a companion to share the dream with. Unfortunately, your dream is a lose-lose situation for your wife. How does she feel about your dream? Does she realize how serious you are about it? Am I being selfish? Should I just suck it up and do what I need to do to make my wife happy? I know that's the dutiful thing to do...but it's hard to accept. Are you being selfish? Yes. But I understand that it is a yearning inside of you to do what you want to do. You feel trapped and want to just flee away from your current life. Let's say your wife suddenly turned up the heat in the bedroom. She loses the awkwardness and knows how to do it like a porn star...lol. She gets in shape and wears clothing that you find attractive and wants to have sex every night. She still has no interest in sailing/after parties, etc... but she does flirt with you or acts suggestive while making dinner. She does little things that make you feel sexy and wanted. Does this scenario appeal to you? Or would you still just rather find a new person who does share your interest and go sailing around the world with them? If you could have either of things magically happen right now... which one would you choose?
mourningMM Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 my ex did Annapolis-Newport and Bahamas a number of times. I know sailing. I know post-race parties. I know intense emotions when you cross the finish line right after a tacking duel. I spent years sailing with him...and would have again...once the kids were grown up. He was impatient and while I couldn't race, I know how it feels to be at a crew party and be the only one who wasn't on board...and see my husband lean into another woman wearing the same shirt and share an inside joke. I know the feeling of seeing a husband leave and justify it because we "had nothing in common" while we had 2 children and a lifetime of memories and plans. I also know what it is like to see that other woman at my children's family events and watch the awkwardness that my children have to face. I hear their horror when someone mistakes his new wife to be their mother. I appreciate and hear that you have different interests. Have you ever asked her directly if she resents your absence? Have you ever asked her directly if she wants your presence in the garden? I hope you can see my points about the inappropriatness of either party in a marriage making a unilateral decision about whether or not the marriage is viable. Read up about emotional affairs...it really sounds like your crush is right on the line. Open your bible, read your vows, look at your children and picture and decide for yourself whether you would be 'sucking it up' or deciding to honor your committments. Your word choice, your tone, your focus all point to a frame of mind or attitude that does not seem favorable to choosing growth that directs you back together. If you like to sail, sail; if she likes to garden, let her garden. But for the love of St. Pete....find something you both like and spend a few months discovering a new passion together in the same place at the same time....make it 1/3-1/3-1/3, stop letting yourself dwell on a future without her and then see if you can imagine a future that will make your children, grandchildren and both of you happy to be in the same room at Christmas or a wedding or a christening. Good luck....
EmotionallyYours Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Your word choice, your tone, your focus all point to a frame of mind or attitude that does not seem favorable to choosing growth that directs you back together. If you like to sail, sail; if she likes to garden, let her garden. But for the love of St. Pete....find something you both like and spend a few months discovering a new passion together in the same place at the same time....make it 1/3-1/3-1/3, stop letting yourself dwell on a future without her and then see if you can imagine a future that will make your children, grandchildren and both of you happy to be in the same room at Christmas or a wedding or a christening. Good luck.... MourningMM -- He needs some time... Once those feelings are "awakened" you can't just turn them off. The whole putting the toothpaste back in the tube thing. You are right about the emotion thing too. My EA stemmed from doing an activity that generated a ton of adrenaline / endorphins. It really does make the likelihood of forming an emotional bond with someone else much greater. A lot of it is chemical and especially when the person has an addictive personality it is only that much harder to fight. I read and re-read these posts to remind myself of the effect the "love" chemicals have on us and try my best to remember that they will indeed fade.
mourningMM Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 and I hear your comments regarding the endorphins and emotional affairs. What you have, is committment and self-awareness. I know it isn't easy to put toothpaste back in a tube! I just hope to influence any man or woman who is "midlifing" two things: no one of the two people in a marriage should feel like they have a right to make a unilateral decision just because it is easier, in their view 'better', less painful, or any other descriptor.a vow of marriage is an emotional, physical, mental, social and legal committment to act as a couple for better or worse until death do us part. I think that both men and women between the ages of 60 and 30 grew up in a very selfish generation, willing to put their own best interest first...before that of the 'couple'. I hope to illustrate the impact of that selfish behavior on not just the spouse who is left, but the children, grandchildren, parents, relatives, and friends of a marriage which breaks. And in this illustration, I try to paint a picture of the negatives in the future for people who want to leave because they have 'grown apart'. How there is fallout at every significant life event for children. Finally I hope that I offer suggestions on how to shift the focus of the picture to the couple, creating a landscape where the two roads that have diverged begin to grow back into a single lane because of concious decisions on the part of both parties in the marriage. It takes two people to make a marriage work...two people completely informed of the situation, brutally honest about their own motivations, and completely committed to making choices that are best for BOTH parties at the same time. Now...if two people in a marriage decide together that the paths cannot grow back, well I say that is an indication that the marriage wasn't a true vow. But if one of the two is blind-sided, or is still willing to work on it...my opinion is that the person who leaves takes the blame, the cost, and the responsibility on him/herself. (:confused:On a bad day, that person gets called a quitter, on a good day, I limit myself to words like fool. Right now I'm tired...and so I'll probably sign off soon.)
EmotionallyYours Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 What you have, is committment and self-awareness. I really feel guilty now. Self-awareness, yes. Commitment. Hmmm, I really do try, but I do cheat horribly in my head. Bob... have you looked up EA yet? I want to see if self-awareness helps him more than it helps me. I think that both men and women between the ages of 60 and 30 grew up in a very selfish generation, willing to put their own best interest first...before that of the 'couple'. Yes, that would be me. I am terribly selfish. I used to fight it... but have to accept that I do have selfish tendencies. Bob... were you always selfish about the relationship or did it just recently surface? I hope to illustrate the impact of that selfish behavior on not just the spouse who is left, but the children, grandchildren, parents, relatives, and friends of a marriage which breaks. Luckily I still put the best interests of the children before myself though. This really does keep me going. If this consequence was not there, we would not be having our 13th wedding anniversary soon. Bob - you don't have the younger kids to keep you in line. I don't know what I'd do if the fear of messing up my kids were taken away. Sometimes I think that I'll just pack up and leave with my last child, when she goes to college. I DO hope she goes somewhere "good" for college...lol. The main consequence for you will be your wife. How hard would she take you leaving? Honestly? It takes two people to make a marriage work...two people completely informed of the situation, brutally honest about their own motivations, and completely committed to making choices that are best for BOTH parties at the same time. Now...if two people in a marriage decide together that the paths cannot grow back, well I say that is an indication that the marriage wasn't a true vow. I'm sorry... but I just can't be brutally honest. I'm hoping Bob doesn't have this same hangup and can approach his wife, but I know that I can't. This is my second EA. Before/during/after the first one, we went to counseling. I told him I really did not love him anymore. It took him years (not days, weeks or months) to get over me saying that. I can't even imagine how he would have handled knowing about the EA. After his first reaction... I buried that one deep and NEVER mentioned it. I could not go through that again. I worked so hard to fall back in love. I did succeed in getting much more affection for him. The fact that this has happened again (second time in 7 years), is really wearing me thin. I just can't do this again and go through the emotions. Bob, if this is the first time you are having these thoughts. You have done incredibly well in your marriage. But if one of the two is blind-sided, or is still willing to work on it...my opinion is that the person who leaves takes the blame, the cost, and the responsibility on him/herself. I feel very guilty that I leave him in the dark. If he knew the things that went through my head. I guarantee you he would leave. I would. I would never stay with someone who had such horrible thoughts about leaving me on a daily basis. I could not be happy staying knowing that I truly wasn't wanted as a friend AND lover. He will not understand. Should I give HIM that choice? Probably... but I won't risk the kid's feeling if he does decide he needs to leave. I will see my EA tonight because I have manipulated yet another situation in a way that we will be together. I woke up this morning and accepted an invitation that I shouldn't be accepting. Felt guilt... logged on here so people could yell at me. I know I will not do anything with him physical. But, YES, I will flirt and feed the stupid addiction and get my feel good chemicals going... Thank GOD we are going on vacation soon. God, I feel like an alcoholic that needs to "stay on the wagon" every day with my relationship. LS is like my AA meeting every day. If I feel a huge temptation to cheat, I read messy divorce w/kids threads. It's like throwing ice water over my head . Well... Bob... bet you don't want advice from me anymore...huh? We can try to resist temptation together and try to get to a better place in our marriages. How about it?
mourningMM Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 with yourself about youself. Gently and caringly honest with compassion and feeling towards a spouse. If I'm too nice to myself and allow soft words and delusions I don't take myself serously and I will lie my way into a corner I can't escape!
Storyrider Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Well... Bob... bet you don't want advice from me anymore...huh? We can try to resist temptation together and try to get to a better place in our marriages. How about it? EY, I hope you will keep posting. I think you have to be a member for a few weeks and have around 75 posts to get PM privs. I've been following your posts, and you write so eloquently about your situation. Believe me, there are many others who share aspects of your situation and benefit from your presence here. Bob and Kookla (sp?) should keep posting too.
ookla_2 Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Thanks, SR! I find these forums to be very helpful, and plan to continue reading and posting when necessary. I feel I currently need the help, and maybe someday will be of help to others. Bob, there are some great posters here with very helpful suggestions. Keep coming back! (I don't feel I myself am in a position to offer help - still feeling somewhat lost and confused myself, but I have read your story and am hoping for the best for you and your loved ones).
Storyrider Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Oops. Sorry, ookla! I knew something wasn't quite right. (Do you remember Kukla, Fran and Ollie? An old TV puppet show? It was really old, but they still showed reruns in the 70s.) Anyway, yeah. Please keep posting.
whichwayisup Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 I'm considering asking her to start marriage counseling with me. But I'm afraid of the pain I will drag her through as I'm forced to talk about all these things. And I can't imagine what the counselor will come up with to fix this. Our sexual dysfunction didn't happen overnight, it developed over years, and my wife was not willing to change how we had sex. It doesn't seem possible to fix it now, after all these years. I would rather you feel and deal with that pain, work hard (and it is alot of work) in marriage counselling to fix your marriage, make it better - Than throw in the towel because you're afraid to feel pain, or inflict pain on your wife. Doing the marriage counselling will reconnect you two again. Maybe there are things SHE needs to get out as well about you...Just would be sad to end such a long marriage without really trying to fix it. Is it better for both of us to call it off while we're still fairly young? She'd be able to do what she wants, and so would I, without the stress caused by our divergent lives. I know she would be very unhappy to divorce. I'd be unhappy too, but hell! I'm unhappy now, and so is she. You two owe to eachother to try to fix it. UNLESS you both want to end it now... As for the woman friend you have - Don't be telling her how she turns you on and that you find her sexually attractive. Right now she is not paying attention to this, but the more time you spend with her, the affection and feelings of emotional attachment that you should be feeling for your wife WILL be transferred to your lady friend...It just will happen, next thing you know you'll find yourself thinking about her more and more...It isn't fair to her, let alone your wife. Question for you. How does your wife feel about porn? It actually could kick start your sexlife together!
EmotionallyYours Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Question for you. How does your wife feel about porn? It actually could kick start your sexlife together! I should say she won't go for it right away. Try erotic fiction first. I like the online "homegrown" stuff the best... but some of the more explicit romance ones are good too. Seriously... this helped me a lot the first time I was determined to leave my husband...lol...I can't believe I actually admit to this stuff. It's great stuff written by women for women.
Obart Posted August 25, 2007 Posted August 25, 2007 I'm in a similar situation and wound up posting here searching for opinions... you'll get plenty of them... ignore the judgmental ones. Follow your heart, but carefully. Good luck.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 25, 2007 Posted August 25, 2007 Thank you SR for your kind words. Wanted to say good luck to midlifebob. Bye Ookla!! I won't have access to a computer for over a week.
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