Lovesick

[Obart]

Originally posted on Coping forum, but I wonder if this one isn't more appropriate...

 

I've been married to my wife over 25 years; we've two grown children. I'm 50+ years old and my wife's about the same. The marriage has been OK but largely routine for quite awhile now, spark seems gone. Have never cheated, not my style.

 

Early this summer, I woke up one morning to realize I had developed deep emotional feelings for another woman (my age, divorced, 2 college age girls) with whom I work at a volunteer organization. I've known her for about 6 years, working closely with her for about 4 years.

 

We just seem to click together and pretty much flirt around whenever we're with each other. She's generally very physical with those around her; tends to greet everyone with a hug. When we greet each other the hug seems to last longer and we kiss on the lips... nothing really deep but very pleasurable nonetheless. We've hugged and kissed playfully on occassion for no good reason; we both enjoy the physical contact. I've told her that she's just too much fun to kiss and that I was starting to grow quite attached to her.

 

We started a largely e-mail relationship and have been writing to each other often since the summer began.

 

A few weeks ago we sat down for a heart to heart and I told her how I felt.

There was much hugging, a kiss or two as I literally bared my soul to this lovely woman. She told me she loves me as a friend and doesn't want to lose me, doesn't like to mix volunteer work with social life and then added offhandedly that she considered herself to be in a relationship; seeing someone infrequently for the past two years who lives several hundred miles away. At that point, figuring all is lost, I said something to the effect that I'd cry at her wedding... to which she quickly said, "Oh it's nothing like that, it's just someone I see... ." Can't recall exact words. She said she was warmed and flattered by my feelings for her. We parted that day with a warm embrace and kiss. I said something like "I love you, pal."

 

That night she sent me an e-mail with just a photo attached, no text. It was a picture of me doing what I love at this organization where we both volunteer... she's one of our staff photographers.

 

The next day I wrote her an e-mail note summing up our discussion and my deep feelings for her, agreeing that our present relationship is very dear to me as well and I would not want to lose that, ending with she'll always be dear to me and to let me know if she ever has a change of heart... I agonized over sending it, fearing she'd heard enough.

 

Well, she replied to my note with such lovely words that it made me weak in the knees... sentiments like now that she knows me she can't imagine not knowing me and wants to know me better and better, and that she's keeping everything I have said and written in a special, warm place. She closed that note by saying let's get some ice cream together soon... still trying to work that out, schedules and all

 

We're continuing to correspond and are trying to get together. She's even brought up a game we played in the past where we'd share a piece of candy until out lips met. We'll be seeing a lot of each other over the next 4 weeks as museum activity picks up.

 

Obviously, my marriage is the biggest obstacle to any future with this remarkable lady. I'm prepared to end the marriage if it will mean a future with her. I told her that I was not looking for an affair, have too much respect for both her and my wife.

 

What I'm looking for here is insight... I know it's tough, but how do you folks out there read this woman?

[directx]

I would definitely do the ice cream! If it was coffee, that might be more intimate, but ice cream is cool.

[mammax3]

You said: "Obviously, my marriage is the biggest obstacle to any future with this remarkable lady. I'm prepared to end the marriage if it will mean a future with her. I told her that I was not looking for an affair, have too much respect for both her and my wife."

 

I think it's quite disrespectful that you're not telling your wife that your feelings for her have changed. The fact that you're willing to leave your wife in the wings while you test the waters with another woman is disrespectful too.

 

Tell your wife that you have feelings for another woman and give her the respect she and your marriage deserve by letting the two of you choose the course of your future. You may find she doesn't want to be in the marriage either.

 

Good luck.

[JamesM]

First, for anyone who wants to know what advice obart has already received, please read the thread he posted in Coping. There has been a lively discussion there already.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t127662/

 

obart, if you read my last post on that thread, you will see that I have been in shoes similar to yours, and my choice was different than the one which you seem to be leaning towards. I stand not in judgment, but I can say that I think a choice that tears up your family and ruins your wife's life may not be the best choice.

[butterfly37]

I agree with James. Think unselfishly. What would you want your wife to do if she were in your shoes?

[Darth Vader]

Don't think that you're going to get an OK to have sex with the other woman, because you're not going to get it! Tell your wife about the feelings for the other woman, then get to Marriage Counseling Pronto!

[Lezbean]

I feel awful for his poor wife.

 

I can't imagine how devastated she will fill after being tossed aside like trash after 25 years of marriage so you can find "happiness" with another woman.

 

You are living in a dream and you have no idea how long and drawn out a divorce can be. It could be a few years before you are able to be together.

 

Let me ask you. Let's say you were in what you thought was a happy, stable marriage and your wife tossed you out like trash so that she could be happy with an exciting new man?

 

I think you are incredibly selfish.

 

You and the OW have no morals to even consider a relationship with a you being married man. If you did end up together, could you ever really trust each other knowing that you both think love and commitment are disposable?

 

Shame on you.

[JamesM]

 

Obviously, my marriage is the biggest obstacle to any future with this remarkable lady. I'm prepared to end the marriage if it will mean a future with her.

 

 

This struck me when I was rereading your post again. I guess I was flabbergasted when I thought about it. If you had been married 25 months, I could hear it said this way, but you have been married 25 YEARS ! And she has given you children! It seems that your wife is not your consideration, it is the legal connection that you have to her.

 

You have not said, but do you not love your wife anymore? What caused this to change? Is there nothing inside of you that wants to regain that love connection?

 

And yes, I quoted some marriage vows on the other thread, but did you say something like this at your ceremony? "Until death do us part." "I will be faithful to you."

 

Again, I do not sit above you. I wrote my story on your other thread, and I truly do have an idea of what kind of agony you have inwardly. So, when I say to sit back and look at your situation objectively and not emotionally, I understand how difficult this is...but I also know how very important this is.

[Kasan]

I asked similar questions on the other forum James and Obart never answered them.

 

So, I am wondering Obart, what kind of answers did you expect to find over here..... that you didn't find at the other forum?

[Obart]

What started out as a civilized discussion has in some cases been turned downright abusive by some people (not you JamesM).

 

To you holier than thou types I can only say I hope you get a chance to row the same boat someday, especially you Lezbean... bye, bye.

[Kasan]

Obart,

 

I am sorry that you feel that you have been abused by the responses you have received on both of your threads.

 

I think the issue lies with the fact that so many people are on this site to try and save their marriages, even though horrible things have happened to them.

 

They are here to learn and try to become better people for their next relationships. Many have not liked the responses they have received to their situations anymore than you have--but they have taken the advice they received and have given it some well deserved thought.

 

Of course we don't know everything about your situation--we only know what we have been told by you!

 

You have asked for advice on a public forum and you must know that not everyone will like what you are thinking of doing. As it is a public and anonymous forum it is also easy to be harsh.

 

Only you know what your intentions are--and I think on some level you know exactly what you want to do.

 

Good luck!

[bones]

Obart,

 

I know of at least three other people in the same position. It is a very difficult and unhappy spot. I think there have been some harsh replies to your post. There is no easy answer to this. Marriage is on on-going challenge that always requires intense communication and self sacrifice. Sometimes those things can repair damage. There comes a point when all the communication and counceling in the world can't jumpstart love between two people that have grown apart.

 

I get the till death do us part thing and staying together for the sake of committments and children. However there is a time when that becomes unhealthy physically and emotionally for all parties involved. Read The Healing Power of Intimacy by Dean Ornish. I've never been divorced, but can only imagine the horror of the process. It is however a process that comes to an end. If at the end is the opportunity for individuals to live a happy and healthy second half of life, then perhaps it is a consideration.

 

The main issue is that a marriage should end because the marriage doesn't work. The marriage shouldn't end because there is someone else out there that is appealing. I think what happens is we become complacent living in loveless marriages because we have no reason driving us to the realization that we should move on-- until there is someone that ignites a very strong fire in our hearts. Then the situation becomes so sticky. Search your soul and don't feel judged by others that believe anyone who seeks divorce should burn at the stake. Life is not black and white. There is a lot of gray zone. Your true friends will understand....

[Gunny376]

Obart,

 

I know of at least three other people in the same position. It is a very difficult and unhappy spot. I think there have been some harsh replies to your post. There is no easy answer to this. Marriage is on on-going challenge that always requires intense communication and self sacrifice. Sometimes those things can repair damage. There comes a point when all the communication and counceling in the world can't jumpstart love between two people that have grown apart.

 

I get the till death do us part thing and staying together for the sake of committments and children. However there is a time when that becomes unhealthy physically and emotionally for all parties involved. Read The Healing Power of Intimacy by Dean Ornish. I've never been divorced, but can only imagine the horror of the process. It is however a process that comes to an end. If at the end is the opportunity for individuals to live a happy and healthy second half of life, then perhaps it is a consideration.

 

The main issue is that a marriage should end because the marriage doesn't work. The marriage shouldn't end because there is someone else out there that is appealing. I think what happens is we become complacent living in loveless marriages because we have no reason driving us to the realization that we should move on-- until there is someone that ignites a very strong fire in our hearts. Then the situation becomes so sticky. Search your soul and don't feel judged by others that believe anyone who seeks divorce should burn at the stake. Life is not black and white. There is a lot of gray zone. Your true friends will understand....

 

WOW! Well said!

[Obart]

Bones and Kasan,

 

Of all responses I've read yours seems to be the most understanding of the situation.

 

I've traveled the country extensively on business for the entire life of my marriage and never strayed, despite opportunity knocking. This is the first time I've ever felt this way about another woman... why do you have to meet someone who just might be your soulmate 35 years too late?

 

An affair is not even in the equation here, my new friend is a true lady and nothing else would drive her away faster. I've already made it clear this was the case with her and have spoken in general terms about my unhappiness with our relationship with my wife.

 

And yes, it's true that there are other factors that I just haven't included in my notes. You can only ramble on so long.

 

Thanks for your kind understanding.

[Saxis]

I've been married to my wife over 25 years; we've two grown children. I'm 50+ years old and my wife's about the same. The marriage has been OK but largely routine for quite awhile now, spark seems gone. Have never cheated, not my style.

 

The bold part there is what I have trouble wrapping my mind around. I don't consider "cheating" just sex. You're in love with another woman and already having a fairly intimate relationship with her. That's more cheating than anything else. I'm guessing when you do tell your wife, she will be more devastated by this than if you just had sex with another woman. Other than this, I agree totally with what bones said

 

Then again, I was raised old fashioned, and prepared for "till death do us part" before my wife of only 3 years told me that she hadn't been in love with me nearly our entire marriage, and she walked out. What hurt the most was not that she didn't love me anymore, but that she failed to tell me about it for 2+ years. She KNEW 2 years ago that she didn't want to be in the marriage anymore, but drug it out to keep from hurting me. Sorry, it doesn't work that way...

 

I think you should have that talk with your wife, and see where things stand. You never know, she may feel the same way, as someone else mentioned, and that would make things easier.

[Lezbean]

What you are having is called An Emotional Affair Obart and it is just as destructive as a physical affair, sometimes more so because you become emotionally attached to this person.

 

Let me ask you. If you treated your wife the same way you are treating OW, do you think your wife would be treating you differently and like someone in love? Think about how differently you are treating these women.

 

You are in a "Fog". Please go to MarriageBuilders.com and read more about it.

[Filn]

One of the things that I was thinking as I read through this thread has already been mentioned and stated very well by Saxis. The first thing I think you need to realize is that you ARE cheating already. I have been in the situation where my wife has cheated on me several times. Sex with another man has been one of the ways; trying to find comfort emotionally, without involving sex, is another way that she has cheated on me. To be honest, turning to another man to show her emotions to hurt me more far then a one night fling in many respects.

 

The point is, it doesn't matter if you consider it cheating or not, it is how your wife will perceive your relationship with this other woman, should she ever find out.

 

That being said, anyone that has been in a marriage for any amount of time will understand where you are coming from and understand the actions that you have taken. I don't agree with the course of action that you have taken, but I am not you and can only judge based upon what you have said. If one looses an personal bond with their partner in a marriage, it is only natural to find a way to fill that need to be with someone. Finding another woman is one of the ways, and probably the easiest, in a sense.

 

Giving up on your marriage may seem like the right thing to do now, but trust me, the path of giving up on a marriage without even trying to fix what is wrong will probably only lead you to a lot of hurt down the road. Just because things work well between this other woman and you now does not mean that it will be that way forever. You could very well be left without nothing. No wife, no lover and alone until the day you die.

 

My suggestion is to take time for yourself and your wife to make sure you are not making a huge mistake. Try keeping your distance from this other woman for awhile and see if these emotions will last between you and her or if they are just feelings of lust. Talk to your wife about how you feel and be honest with her. I wouldn't tell her about the other woman, but tell her about how you feel about her and your marriage. Seek help for your relationship if you need to. You never know, she may not love you either and has been to afraid to say so, as have you been to her. If you have any respect for your wife, it is the least you could do.

 

You are in a situation where you hold all the cards and are able to determine the future of of another, potentially crushing everything they have known. Even your children will be affected by this and my turn their back on you for doing what you have done. Respect the situation that you are in and the power you have over other people at this moment and try and understand that you do have choices and that sometimes, doing the right thing is a very hard thing to do.

[Kasan]

Could it be possible that you are having a mid life crisis Obart?

 

The reason I ask is you seem to be right around the age. Maybe a quick google of mid life crisis.

 

You appear to be a nice man who is struggling with alot of the issues that many men your age go through.

 

Just another thought.

[JamesM]

Bones and Kasan,

 

Of all responses I've read yours seems to be the most understanding of the situation.

 

I've traveled the country extensively on business for the entire life of my marriage and never strayed, despite opportunity knocking. This is the first time I've ever felt this way about another woman... why do you have to meet someone who just might be your soulmate 35 years too late?

 

An affair is not even in the equation here, my new friend is a true lady and nothing else would drive her away faster. I've already made it clear this was the case with her and have spoken in general terms about my unhappiness with our relationship with my wife.

 

And yes, it's true that there are other factors that I just haven't included in my notes. You can only ramble on so long.

 

Thanks for your kind understanding.

 

If I could kindly say this, I think these two responses are the first ones that said, "Go ahead and have an affair."

 

If you came here to get approval to go ahead, you have your justification.

 

Personally, I still say that this is one decision you may regret. But I will also quickly say that it IS your life and not mine....my thoughts may not be what work for you.

 

As for unhealthy marriages etc., you stated in your first post that your marriage was okay. Nothing has been said that indicates that it is unhealthy. Could it be that it seems unhealthy because you finally met your "soulmate?"

[bones]

Obart & Gunny-

 

I'm glad you found my words a voice of reason. I agree a heart to heart with the wife is critical. There is never an easy way to say-- I don't love you. Be honest, but don't break out the sledgehammer. Talk about what you think is great about her and what you treasured about your marriage. Then talk about you and what has changed in you over the years. Explain what events impacted your thoughts and actions. Talk about the future and what you want it to be like. Ask her to talk about those things too and see how they line up. Are you able to achieve what she wants as a couple? You may want this to be a series of discussions rather than one big one. Hold off on the I don't love you anymore bomb for a bit.

 

Be sure to emphasize the positive about both of you and that no one is right or wrong. Unless there is cruel, abusive or blatent irresponsible behavior on someone's part, it is a discussion about blending and satisfying diverging needs. Marriage is about finding a way for each person to attain satisfaction and self actualization. Wanting that doesn't make a person selfish--it makes him human.

 

Self actualization is at the top of Maslow's heirarchy of needs. Beneath that is love and belonging. When we don't have love and belonging within the marriage, our self actualization suffers. That's why marriages can be such a struggle. I believe most people are genuinely good at heart. They just are caught between somewhere between sacrifice and self actualization. Once children are grown, the sacrifice shouldn't be as necessary. We live once-- Live. Just always keep in mind of the dignity of your wife and you'll find the right path to where you want to go.

[Kasan]

James,

 

Bones and Kasan,

 

Of all responses I've read yours seems to be the most understanding of the situation.

 

If I could kindly say this, I think these two responses are the first ones that said, "Go ahead and have an affair."

 

Nowhere in my postings did I say that it was okay for Obart to have an affair, nor did Bones. Although, it does seem to me that he wants validation to have an affair.

 

He will do what he wants to do regardless of what any of us say.

 

You in particular have been very articulate in your thoughts about his situation--you have given some great insight and perspective. Your words will help many who are struggling with this issue.

 

Will it help Obart? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Be well

[bones]

Thanks Kasen. I went back and re-read my post after reading Jame's. I don't give people permission to have affairs. I give people permission to be human and struggle like the rest of us. I don't go for high-horse preaching.

[Mustang Sally]

I'm prepared to end the marriage if it will mean a future with her.

Obart -

Do you think you are prepared to end your marriage even if it DOESN'T mean a future with this other woman?

 

I have been in a similar situation as you.

I feel for you.

 

I never acted on my situation.

My H is aware of everything.

We (truthfully - he more than I) are working on our M.

I still don't know how it will turn out (my M...nothing will happen between me and the other man).

 

For me, the M was messed up first, then the OM became an issue. I am trying to figure out the M and not allow the distraction of any other men.

Truthfully (this is hard - sure I will get a LS verbal beating for it), it is very difficult to keep the issues separate. But I don't believe any good second (or whatever) relationship could be formed in the shadow of an unfinished/unresolved marriage.

 

I agree with Bones, who said, above, there is little black and white (at least not for me) and a plethora of gray.

 

Can you fill us in more on the issues in your M?

[JamesM]

James,

 

Bones and Kasan,

 

Of all responses I've read yours seems to be the most understanding of the situation.

 

If I could kindly say this, I think these two responses are the first ones that said, "Go ahead and have an affair."

 

Nowhere in my postings did I say that it was okay for Obart to have an affair, nor did Bones. Although, it does seem to me that he wants validation to have an affair.

 

He will do what he wants to do regardless of what any of us say.

 

You in particular have been very articulate in your thoughts about his situation--you have given some great insight and perspective. Your words will help many who are struggling with this issue.

 

Will it help Obart? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Be well

 

I apologize for my quick reading..or so it seems. And thank you for the kind words.

 

Maybe I should say it this way...your two posts did not say that it is okay to cheat (in fact, they actually said cheating is not good), but they did say that if he is unhappy in his marriage, then maybe divorce is best. From his posts thus far, I don't see that he has exhausted his options at fixing his marriage, so I cannot agree with this option yet. I may be wrong....

 

My argument has been made. And I say it from personal experience. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1292185#post1292185

 

So, when I say I will not judge anyone who chooses different, I mean that. But having been there, I find it necessary to say, "Look beyond these feelings and think of your commitment. Honoring that commitment may actually yield greater rewards than the pursuance of a new woman. Honoring that commitment may bring greater love with your wife than with the OW."

 

I think many of us came to this board looking for validation of our situation and our proposed solution. If I reread my first posts, I think I was inclined to not fix my marriage either. I was hoping for answers that told me to leave my wife...and I got those. Thankfully, I listened to those who seemed harsh at that time and said that I needed to think of my wife and less of myself. I can also relate to obart's feelings that some posts do not come across kindly. I felt that, too. And when we do come looking for some affirmation of what we want, then when others see it differently and suggest that we try to fix our current situation rather than escape it...we do feel as if they do not understand us. I can say that this is not true.

 

Many who post here have been on the same side as Obart's wife. They know what she will feel. They can understand her shock, sadness, and anger. They can understand how her life will be devastated. There is something inside of me that says that out of fairness to her you should have a discussion with her about your feelings with this OW (and I know this has been mentioned), but in all fairness, I think she should be given a chance with you to fix your marriage. Unfortunately, she will be presented with this news with no control over her future. She will be told that you are leaving, and she will always wonder what she would have done to prevent this...with no hope of doing it.

 

And many children of divorced parents are here. They can understand how Obart's children will feel when they learn that their father has finally found his "soulmate." Their constant question will be, "Did not father love mother? What could I have done too save their marriage? And what did I do wrong?"

 

Many here have been the OW or the OM. They can see her side, your side, and even the wife's side. From all of these people will come different opinions and thoughts. I think that is what you want. Even though validations are nice, honesty is best.

 

Obart, in no way do I sit in judgment. And truthfully, if you choose this new woman, I will understand. My argument has been and still remains...your commitment to your children and wife comes first. If this marriage is beyond repair (and in some ways I echo Bones' words here), then leave your wife..with no connection to any other woman. However, I feel quite strongly based on your own words, that your marriage was "okay" but good. It was not beyond repair. And unless I am missing something, neither of you have tried hard to repair it. I think that this OW magnified what was/is missing in your marriage, so escape with her is much more enticing than fixing the "routine" marriage with your wife. I understand. She may seem to be your soulmate (and I am not arguing that), but as Lezbean said, your mind could be in a "fog." It certainly is in your best interest to really sit back and think about your future now before it happens.

 

Obart, if you are looking for validation of your proposed solution, most here do not give you that. If you came looking for answers, then you have been given many. As has been said, it is your choice and your life. The final choice is yours. And it is you not us who will live with the consequences of your choice. Based on that, none of us can say for certain which is the best option. (And remember, all of our answers are based on what you typed and our interpretation of them. If you left any information out that you feel is pertinent, we do not know. Feel free to add it.)

 

Good luck, and I for one would love an update...whichever choice you make.

[JamesM]

Thanks Kasen. I went back and re-read my post after reading Jame's. I don't give people permission to have affairs. I give people permission to be human and struggle like the rest of us. I don't go for high-horse preaching.

 

And my apology to you. Your post did not ive permission to cheat.

 

I give people permission to be human and struggle, too, but I cannot help but think of the other parties involved in this struggle. If they could be a poster here, then it would be understandable. Here we discuss their possible future and they have no knowledge of it. So, to me this is not necessarily "high-horse preaching" but a defense for everyone involved.

 

Since I have been in a similar situation, I feel that my preaching is valid. And when I see others who have posted here come across seemingly harsh, then I check their past. And yes, I can see why they have the opinion they have. They have experienced the devastation of an OW. They have been betrayed by their spouse. So, yes, they will ave an opinion.

 

Truthfully, and I saw this before, the only question Obart really had in his original post is.....

 

What I'm looking for here is insight... I know it's tough, but how do you folks out there read this woman?

 

So, should we be giving any opinions that do not answer that question?

 

Obart, I think I gave an answer to that question in the other thread. Here it is again....

 

A few weeks ago we sat down for a heart to heart and I told her how I felt.

There was much hugging, a kiss or two as I literally bared my soul to this lovely woman. She told me she loves me as a friend and doesn't want to lose me, doesn't like to mix volunteer work with social life and then added offhandedly that she considered herself to be in a relationship; seeing someone infrequently for the past two years who lives several hundred miles away.

 

And thanks for "listening" to my opinions. I wish you the best.