Cobra_X30 Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Combine all you wish Cobra... I never said anything about "expectation". I also said "should it not come to be I'm okay with it". One thing is for certain "I am not settling for anything LESS than everything!" Meaning connecting on all four levels. Why would I? Everyone is unique based on personal experiences. What may be good for one, may not be good for another. I definately know what is right for me and I will not settle. It's that simple. LOL... You grossly underestimate me! In all seriousness I applaud your attitude! Actually if more poeple took this approach the R failure rate would be much lower. As you already know... you cant truely love someone else until you can love yourself. Its a funny correlation but it strikes me that, perhaps the more selfish a person is... the less they actually like themselves.... odd as that may sound.
smoochygirl Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 Marriage in my opinion is more than a name, ring and a piece of paper. SG, if your ideas of what marriage is feels right for you, then that is where you should be. No one can give you any other thought process. The same goes for us who do not believe in marriage. It is completely possible to have a great partnership without being married. It is also possible to establish a partnership in the marriage. There is no right or wrong. Deal;). Thanks for respecting my opinion.
Author RealityCheck Posted August 24, 2007 Author Posted August 24, 2007 LOL... You grossly underestimate me! In all seriousness I applaud your attitude! Actually if more poeple took this approach the R failure rate would be much lower. As you already know... you cant truely love someone else until you can love yourself. Its a funny correlation but it strikes me that, perhaps the more selfish a person is... the less they actually like themselves.... odd as that may sound. You really want to get into my head don't you......LMAOOOOOO No problem Cobra, because it's very safe, and remains in her own truth. No games, no bullsh*t! Make no mistake. A person who "knows" who they are comes from a deeper place in understanding and can't be found in any book, only experience thus, not selfish. A person who "thinks" they know who they are lives in the ego mind thus, selfish.
Cobra_X30 Posted August 24, 2007 Posted August 24, 2007 You really want to get into my head don't you......LMAOOOOOO No problem Cobra, because it's very safe, and remains in her own truth. No games, no bullsh*t! Make no mistake. A person who "knows" who they are comes from a deeper place in understanding and can't be found in any book, only experience thus, not selfish. A person who "thinks" they know who they are lives in the ego mind thus, selfish. You assume Im not already in your head! (que evil laugh) Mwahahaha! Naw, Overall Im just playing! I completely agree with your assesment. One addition however, you must know yourself... and accept who you are without reservations. Unbelieveable as it may seem there are parts of me I do not like. I accept that and strive to learn, grow, and change.
Author RealityCheck Posted August 24, 2007 Author Posted August 24, 2007 You assume Im not already in your head! (que evil laugh) Mwahahaha! Naw, Overall Im just playing! I completely agree with your assesment. One addition however, you must know yourself... and accept who you are without reservations. Unbelieveable as it may seem there are parts of me I do not like. I accept that and strive to learn, grow, and change. I couldn't agree with you more! Part of knowing oneself is to accept the good, bad and ugly that exists in each of us. Experiences are presented that brings some ugliness to surface. It is recognizing and accepting that part of who we are and move through the process whatever it may be and come to a place of forgivess in ourselves. Some people refer to it as learning, I believe it is acceptance of who I am. I accept I am not perfect! I am comfortable and content knowing that! This does not mean we have to like it, it only means we accept ourselves as less than perfect. For someone to believe that does not exist in themselves would be to believe that they are perfect! No one on this planet is perfect that's why this planet is such a mess! Forgive and let live.
Cobra_X30 Posted August 25, 2007 Posted August 25, 2007 I couldn't agree with you more! Part of knowing oneself is to accept the good, bad and ugly that exists in each of us. Experiences are presented that brings some ugliness to surface. It is recognizing and accepting that part of who we are and move through the process whatever it may be and come to a place of forgivess in ourselves. Some people refer to it as learning, I believe it is acceptance of who I am. I accept I am not perfect! I am comfortable and content knowing that! This does not mean we have to like it, it only means we accept ourselves as less than perfect. For someone to believe that does not exist in themselves would be to believe that they are perfect! No one on this planet is perfect that's why this planet is such a mess! Forgive and let live. Wow... that is deep! You realize somebody is going to read this thread... write a self help book and make millions! Oh, and in regards to your perfection.... That depends on who you ask!
Author RealityCheck Posted August 25, 2007 Author Posted August 25, 2007 Oh, and in regards to your perfection.... That depends on who you ask! And that my friend is why this planet is such a mess....."think about it":eek:
Cobra_X30 Posted August 25, 2007 Posted August 25, 2007 And that my friend is why this planet is such a mess....."think about it":eek: Indeed that is something to think aboot. I might be able to come up with some kind of unifying theory for chaos and interpersonal relationships. What an interesting and complex dance we have created for something most organisms make simple!
lonelybird Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 I agree with Reality check here about experience bring out ugliness. If I wasn't jealous about certain thing, I won't know I was like beast in the heat of jealousy:p. If the ugliness deep buried, we cannot improve it. after exposed, We can accept our imperfect, and ask God to change us, and improve it. But I have different thought about "selfishness" and "self love" Selfishness: screw others, ME is most important thing in the world. ME happiness is the most important thing. In fact, selfish persons are unhappy person. they despise themselves in own heart although they don't think so. Lord said this "those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it", I think this quote also can apply here . Selfish person think they are doing themselves a favor, but in fact they lost much, lost not only the chance to have eternal life, but also lost valuable things here on earth: compassion for others, self-confident and true self love Self Love: accept self, non-critical, very sensitive to core self and to conscience: so when others treat us bad, we recognize the hurt, so we try NOT to do the same hurtful things to others. If we don't want to be betrayed, the hurt is unmeasurable, we don't betray others. So cheaters are somehow self-denial and self-cheating Bible teach "love your neighbor as love yourself". so we have to love self, and we can learn true love from God
Author RealityCheck Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 I agree with Reality check here about experience bring out ugliness. If I wasn't jealous about certain thing, I won't know I was like beast in the heat of jealousy:p. If the ugliness deep buried, we cannot improve it. after exposed, We can accept our imperfect, and ask God to change us, and improve it. But I have different thought about "selfishness" and "self love" Selfishness: screw others, ME is most important thing in the world. ME happiness is the most important thing. In fact, selfish persons are unhappy person. they despise themselves in own heart although they don't think so. Lord said this "those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it", I think this quote also can apply here . Selfish person think they are doing themselves a favor, but in fact they lost much, lost not only the chance to have eternal life, but also lost valuable things here on earth: compassion for others, self-confident and true self love Self Love: accept self, non-critical, very sensitive to core self and to conscience: so when others treat us bad, we recognize the hurt, so we try NOT to do the same hurtful things to others. If we don't want to be betrayed, the hurt is unmeasurable, we don't betray others. So cheaters are somehow self-denial and self-cheating Bible teach "love your neighbor as love yourself". so we have to love self, and we can learn true love from God Well again you are quoting a faith that YOU believe. Some do not have the same religious beliefs as you simply because you are living that experience of that particular faith. That is your life experience. Not everyone. How can a person "think" like you if they do not "believe" what you believe? That's how wars have been started. Bottom line, no book can teach someone about who they are! It is souly life experience.
silktricks Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 Well again you are quoting a faith that YOU believe. Some do not have the same religious beliefs as you simply because you are living that experience of that particular faith. That is your life experience. Not everyone. How can a person "think" like you if they do not "believe" what you believe? That's how wars have been started. Bottom line, no book can teach someone about who they are! It is souly life experience. LB obviously does believe deeply, and though I don't agree with much of what she says (or how she says it) it doesn't mean that simply because her thoughts are faith based that they are wrong or applicable only to those who follow her faith. What she said about loving oneself wasn't really that far away from what you had said earlier, RC. That we need to learn to accept ourselves for what we are. I personally agree with her about the added importance of recognizing when we are hurt, and trying then to not do to others the things that hurt us. That idea of not doing to others what we don't want done to us feels like a pretty universal truth, and is certainly not found in only the Christian religion.
Author RealityCheck Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 That idea of not doing to others what we don't want done to us feels like a pretty universal truth, and is certainly not found in only the Christian religion. Yes, I agree with Universal truth. However I will say it again, that though we like to remain in this truth experiences are presented at times, in someone's life that can lead a person to oppose that truth.
East of Jupiter Posted August 26, 2007 Posted August 26, 2007 You really want to get into my head don't you......LMAOOOOOO No problem Cobra, because it's very safe, and remains in her own truth. No games, no bullsh*t! Make no mistake. A person who "knows" who they are comes from a deeper place in understanding and can't be found in any book, only experience thus, not selfish. A person who "thinks" they know who they are lives in the ego mind thus, selfish. I'm going to have to share this with my H, who believes he "knows" who he is despite his actions saying otherwise. And how in the world does a person know this, unless it is pointed out or forced to the surface?
Author RealityCheck Posted August 26, 2007 Author Posted August 26, 2007 I'm going to have to share this with my H, who believes he "knows" who he is despite his actions saying otherwise. And how in the world does a person know this, unless it is pointed out or forced to the surface? It is called denial.
lonelybird Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 :Doh, about experience, I want to add. If a know-everything-person tell me that one big dark hole is bottomless, I will not rebellingly try to jump down to experience if it is true. Same reason, Bible says "adultery lead to destruction, sins will lead to destruction", maybe after experience destruction, people will get wiser, but sometimes the destruction is too large to handle. why not walk around that dark bottomless hole, and walk on flat ground? Besides jumping into the hole (negative experience), there are tons of positive experiences in life. but I have to agree people are weak, their will power isn't that strong to do what is right. some People have a tendency of self-destruction
Author RealityCheck Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 :Doh, about experience, I want to add. If a know-everything-person tell me that one big dark hole is bottomless, I will not rebellingly try to jump down to experience if it is true. Same reason, Bible says "adultery lead to destruction, sins will lead to destruction", maybe after experience destruction, people will get wiser, but sometimes the destruction is too large to handle. why not walk around that dark bottomless hole, and walk on flat ground? Besides jumping into the hole (negative experience), there are tons of positive experiences in life. but I have to agree people are weak, their will power isn't that strong to do what is right. some People have a tendency of self-destruction Well if life was so black and white, then this could apply. Can't walk around something if you don't see it coming and I am not primarily speaking only of A's, it could be anything! When someone falls into a pit, it is a process to climb out of it. Takes alot of self work to get out of the dark and bring it to light.
silktricks Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 Yes, I agree with Universal truth. However I will say it again, that though we like to remain in this truth experiences are presented at times, in someone's life that can lead a person to oppose that truth. That doesn't mean that opposition to a universal truth is a good thing for oneself or others, and it also doesn't change the truth itself. It just means that at times people make poor judgement calls. Do you think it's a bad thing for a 3rd party to point out the problems that one's poor judgement can cause?
Cobra_X30 Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 Well if life was so black and white, then this could apply. Can't walk around something if you don't see it coming and I am not primarily speaking only of A's, it could be anything! When someone falls into a pit, it is a process to climb out of it. Takes alot of self work to get out of the dark and bring it to light. Ah, but life does not consist only in the grey. Often it is the black and white parts that define our choices!
Author RealityCheck Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 That doesn't mean that opposition to a universal truth is a good thing for oneself or others, and it also doesn't change the truth itself. It just means that at times people make poor judgement calls. Do you think it's a bad thing for a 3rd party to point out the problems that one's poor judgement can cause? I agree, it is not a good thing for oneself to oppose the Universal Truths. But it happens. No! I do not believe it's a bad thing for a 3rd party to point out inappropriate behavior. Not at all. I believe there can be pillars of support in that aspect. Its a very good thing! For me and what I find appalling is when someone is judged on that behavior. People do not have to like it, that's not what I am saying, but there is a fine line between opinion and judgement and it would be wonderful if some people understood the difference.
Author RealityCheck Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 Ah, but life does not consist only in the grey. Often it is the black and white parts that define our choices! True! However there grey does appears in many lives and under many circumtances. Example; A person who is fighting for custody to see his/her child and ends up bankrupt in the process out of fighting for the love of their child would not find it difficult to put their lives back together without falling from grace? I've seen it! I work with it! A child who is physically beaten most of their years would not find it difficult to fall from grace? I've seen it! I work with it! There are many examples to cause and effect. Until a person REALLY knows a person and their life path, you cannot understand fully to the reasons a person may fall from grace.
silktricks Posted August 27, 2007 Posted August 27, 2007 I agree, it is not a good thing for oneself to oppose the Universal Truths. But it happens. sure does!! No! I do not believe it's a bad thing for a 3rd party to point out inappropriate behavior. Not at all. I believe there can be pillars of support in that aspect. Its a very good thing! For me and what I find appalling is when someone is judged on that behavior. People do not have to like it, that's not what I am saying, but there is a fine line between opinion and judgement and it would be wonderful if some people understood the difference. I'm 100% with you on that. But I think that sometimes the ugliness is in the eye of the beholder as well. In other words, I think that sometimes the opinion of person A is viewed by person B as being judgement, when person A didn't have that in their mind or heart. It does seem that if someone has an opinion about what we are doing that is different from our own opinion we (most people) automatically jump into defensive mode and assume that the other person is judging us. Of course, a lot of times they are!!:lmao:
Author RealityCheck Posted August 27, 2007 Author Posted August 27, 2007 sure does!! I'm 100% with you on that. But I think that sometimes the ugliness is in the eye of the beholder as well. In other words, I think that sometimes the opinion of person A is viewed by person B as being judgement, when person A didn't have that in their mind or heart. It does seem that if someone has an opinion about what we are doing that is different from our own opinion we (most people) automatically jump into defensive mode and assume that the other person is judging us. Of course, a lot of times they are!!:lmao: High Five ST....High Five!
lonelybird Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Well if life was so black and white, then this could apply. Can't walk around something if you don't see it coming and I am not primarily speaking only of A's, it could be anything! When someone falls into a pit, it is a process to climb out of it. Takes alot of self work to get out of the dark and bring it to light. Life consist of uncountless decisions. and many decisions are about black and white, about flesh and spirit. what we choose make our life and fate. About affair, one amazing thing I learn from infidility forum is: one woman claimed that her husband is abusive to emotionally and verbally to her, and during this time she wants to cheat with another man. But later she finally realized affair isn't right, and she found out her husband is much better man for her. you can see how people can justify anything according to convenience. they even cheat themselves There involves a choice. When a woman meet a man who is married, whom the woman fall in love with. she still can decide to leave and stay. when she makes decision does she consider his wife's hurt, does she consider his children's hurt? does she consider how painful would that be to wife if her husband who vowed whole future with her, and her whole future built with him? there is a choice between benefit of this OW and others. I think most of OW/OM/MM/MW choose benefit of themselves. BUT universal law aren't so. In the end OW/OM/MM/MW not only hurt themselves but also hurt others. God made universe, he knows what will make us truelly happy. If we obey God, God's peace and rejoice will always be with us. but many people want to rebel, to do things on their own way, so they bring bad consequences to their own life. There sure are obstacles in marriage. It isn't that those happily married couples didn't meet obstacles, it is that they overcomed those obstacles. overcoming the obstacle make us grow, but runing from it will not. running from it only cause us to make circles Oh, if we choose God's way, God's supernature power can work for you, I saw God's power to change things Marriage is like a garden. If you put many energy to nurture it and look it growing, won't you fall in love with it? what if you water it when you like it, and leave it to die when you don't feel like to water it because some thorn grow out?
frannie Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 There involves a choice. When a woman meet a man who is married, whom the woman fall in love with. she still can decide to leave and stay. when she makes decision does she consider his wife's hurt, does she consider his children's hurt? does she consider how painful would that be to wife if her husband who vowed whole future with her, and her whole future built with him? there is a choice between benefit of this OW and others. I think most of OW/OM/MM/MW choose benefit of themselves. BUT universal law aren't so. In the end OW/OM/MM/MW not only hurt themselves but also hurt others. Have you ever been in an affair, or had a relationship with a married person..? If not, how can you pass judgement so freely about others' motivation and who is thinking about what and disregarding others? What you write here is very generalising and simplified. It simply doesn't reflect real life at all. If you have had a relationship with a married person, and you did disregard everything but your own feelings, then that applies to YOU. Not necessarily everyone else.
lonelybird Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Have you ever been in an affair, or had a relationship with a married person..? If not, how can you pass judgement so freely about others' motivation and who is thinking about what and disregarding others? What you write here is very generalising and simplified. It simply doesn't reflect real life at all. If you have had a relationship with a married person, and you did disregard everything but your own feelings, then that applies to YOU. Not necessarily everyone else. A married man ever hinted me that, at the spot lose all my respect for him stored for many years, I know him and his wife. things are not like what he said. and I didn't buy one side story. I know how hard his wife tried. and I cut contact with them to minimum. oh, there are another several, I just laughed them in my heart. I can sense that they just want quick medine to their problems or excitement, if they don't respect me for that amount, they aren't even worth to be friend I don't judge their motivation: probably for love for friendship, and I didn't demean any of these. BUT, their action cause hurts, and when they can choose, they certainly can choose not to hurt others and walk away decently, they are longing for something don't belong to them in the first place.
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