Two Questions...

[RealityCheck]

Times sure have changed. Where commitment and values have evolved as limited priorities. Once upon a time, people really enjoyed each other. It was the simple pleasures that made commitment and value the highest of priorities. Spouses seemed to value each other and respect each other more in yesterday’s society than today.

 

Today’s world has become so materialistic that it seems that spouses in marriage have now become the object and are treated as such. Focus on growing together seems forgotten. Fast pace and changes in the world have no doubt created a hell of a lot more stress and striving to keep up with it all, thus everyone’s energy is pulled in all directions and becomes lost where it truly matters, in the family

 

Sure! I do believe there are marriages that will survive and do make it to “death do us part” and are truly happy. I don’t feel in today’s world there are many

 

Of all the couples I know, and there are many, it is very disheartening to hear their stories. Some that I know have been together for 25 –30 years and have openly said “it’s been a struggle” and we are not happy and have not been for years. Some have even said “I should have left a long time ago” and many have stated I stayed for the kids or financial reasons. Most have had affairs and some have not! Now they look back and view their life with their spouse as hauntingly frightening as retirement years approach. They dread the days to come of having their spouse as what they referred to as “a piece of the furniture” because they said their feelings have died and cannot be recovered

 

I have two questions

 

Firstly, I see the word “commitment” used in this forum often. Each person has his or her own reasons for staying and I am not judging it either way! I would like to ask and truly understand the word commitment when a spouse has been betrayed because for me, my ExH burned that word along with the vow. As a former OW, I would like to ask the question to the OW. I have read many times that the MM is committed exclusively to his OW. Personally, I really have a hard time with that one.

 

Secondly, Who feels marriage is over-rated?

[Lizzie60]

I have read many times that the MM is committed exclusively to his OW. Personally, I really have a hard time with that one.

 

It's not all black and white.. In some cases, I would think that the MM is committed to his OW meaning, he's not seeing anyone else but her outside his marriage. As far as his marriage goes, most of the time, he will stay because of HIS financial security, because he wants to be with his kids on a daily basis and he sees his W as his best friend, his family, friends...etc.

 

Secondly, Who feels marriage is over-rated?

 

I never believed in marriage... unless it's for a financial reason (survivor's benefits, etc.)... I just don't believe that 2 people can live in a monogamous relationship all their life... it's just impossible IMO... and I am not talking about our seniors (they, in most cases, are still married) I am talking about today... in our disposable society.

[lost4ever]

Today’s world has become so materialistic that it seems that spouses in marriage have now become the object and are treated as such. Focus on growing together seems forgotten. Fast pace and changes in the world have no doubt created a hell of a lot more stress and striving to keep up with it all, thus everyone’s energy is pulled in all directions and becomes lost where it truly matters, in the family

 

 

I agree that today's world has become materialistic and about "me" not "us"; I do not believe this is a bad thing, You meet people and you love them, they teach you things about you, they help you grow, and it is hard for two people now days to develop together, at the same speed, when you are not growing and learning from eachother the relationship is over. Women today are independent, they are strong and they make money on there own. It was easier "back in the day" to stay married because you had a women at home who would do 1/2 of the job of a marriage, she did not have the option, so to speak, to go out and develop her own idenity. Now women can do not just 1/2 the marriage, but the whole thing. Men have always cheated, that is why we as women have a hard time to this day putting blame on the males actions, and that is why the OW is know as a husband stealing whore, because "back in the day" that is what they were, the mistress was a women with no family that was "stealing" your man, this is not the case now days, women are strong, and wonderful, and have grown in society to perfection, we can do anything. and that is why we women are our own worse enemy, now days the mistress is not a women that nobody else wants, they are wonderful creatures. (the men might have planned this out, I think they pit us against eachother because they are afraid of world domination!) (sorry guys, still love ya)

 

Secondly, Who feels marriage is over-rated?

 

 

I believe everyone knows where I stand by now with the whole marriage thing, it's not over-rated; it's dead. we are in transition still with the baby boomers, after they are gone and the X and Y generation take over it will not be an issue. Marriage IMO is an outdated ritual set in place in acient times to control the masses, to regulate a society that was not yet civil. Ok I'm done, way too strong of feelings about this and none of you know me as a "person" so this is making me look really bad. and before I get a million replys from the moms, let me state I am not one, that is half the reason my opinion on this subject maybe so strong in one directions, the only benefit I can see to marriage now days is to raise children (and you really don't want to get me started on a children debate), children are not for me, so I believe marriage is not for me. alright, I shouldn't post this it's going to start way too much drama I can already see it, but hey why not

[lost4ever]

and in case anyone was wondering I don't hate men, I love and respect them, they have wonderful qualities, couldn't live without them. Just don't like them for marriage

[RealityCheck]

I believe everyone knows where I stand by now with the whole marriage thing, it's not over-rated; it's dead. we are in transition still with the baby boomers, after they are gone and the X and Y generation take over it will not be an issue. Marriage IMO is an outdated ritual set in place in acient times to control the masses, to regulate a society that was not yet civil. Ok I'm done, way too strong of feelings about this and none of you know me as a "person" so this is making me look really bad. and before I get a million replys from the moms, let me state I am not one, that is half the reason my opinion on this subject maybe so strong in one directions, the only benefit I can see to marriage now days is to raise children (and you really don't want to get me started on a children debate), children are not for me, so I believe marriage is not for me. alright, I shouldn't post this it's going to start way too much drama I can already see it, but hey why not

 

I would hope your perception does bring on anything!

 

I have similiar reasons as you do in terms of why I think marriage is over-rated, but I will post mine later.

 

I really do want to hear what people have to say without getting in the "think" like me intent. That's not the purpose of this thread.

 

Thanks L4E!

[outofdarkness]

and in case anyone was wondering I don't hate men, I love and respect them, they have wonderful qualities, couldn't live without them. Just don't like them for marriage

Well...at least you have the guts to admit that M is not for you...If more couples would admit this BEFORE creating an absolute mess where sooo many people get hurt, the divorce rate wouldn't be what it is and infidelity rates so high...This is what I've said all along, but it's just not realistic..Why can't the person just NOT commit in the first place and if they DO commit, why can't they get out BEFORE the A begins..This is a big debate too because so many people in A's say that it just happened or they didn't realize they were so uhappy before the A....

[RealityCheck]

Ooops! Sorry L4E...I meant "DOESN'T BRING ON ANYTHING"

 

Gotta clear that mess up.....lol

[Tomcat33]

I think you touched on some interesting concepts and I would have to agree with some of the thoughts you have on marriage and commitment.

 

To answer your question re. commitment, my ex guy was seperated and he ws 100% committed to me physically mentally and emotionally, the only way he was not committed to me was in the respect that he was still married therefore I could not plan much of a future with him.

My immediate future did not include marriage by the way, actually may have changed with time. My immediate future did include moving abroad for a few years to practice my profession abroad and to travel while doing so for a few years. He has the same preofessional interest as what I do for a living but he actually had a totally different profession and did a version of what I do as a hobbie. I had awoken in him the desire to practice his first love and part of that plan was to do this together while travelling. HE LOVED the idea, but I couldn't do that unless he was first divorced for my own peace of mind. I wanted to have a child and that was something I would have done within the next few years for sure. Gave that a lot of thought not marriage.

 

He was the one who envisioned us being married, and he had planned as far as where we would wed, what type of ceremony we would have and who would attend. He bought me a ring, not an engagement ring but a significantly expensive and symbolic ring for what we had. But I still could not see a future with a seperated man. Go figure, imagine that!!!!

 

 

Marriage IS over rated, it is nothing more than a joint business venture and a loneliness killer. I don't think rels. where meant to last until death do us part. Having lived with someone for 6yrs and done the marriage thing in every respect except signing the papers, I really don't think I am missing out at all. I understand my view is not for everyone but it suits my life just fine. I don't get that lonely on my own, I dunnow maybe things will change when I am 50 but for now I don't feel lonely at all, I love my space and love the idea of havig someone complement my life not add to in all the miserable ways that married couples complain about. Honestly show me one happily married couple who is truly enjoying marriage and I will show you a pig that can fly.

[lost4ever]

well...at least you have the guts to admit that M is not for you...If more couples would admit this BEFORE creating an absolute mess where sooo many people get hurt, the divorce rate wouldn't be what it is and infidelity rates so high...This is what I've said all along, but it's just not realistic..Why can't the person just NOT commit in the first place and if they DO commit, why can't they get out BEFORE the A begins..This is a big debate too because so many people in A's say that it just happened or they didn't realize they were so uhappy before the A....

 

Don't give me that much credit, I always thought this way, I still got married, I still had an A. It's not enough for people to think like this, I believe society in general needs to change, so that people who DO feel like this are not pressured into getting married, because that is the "right thing to do". I honestly believe that we need to stop telling children that you grow up and meet prince charming and live happly ever after, it's bunk,. and I honestly believe people need to stop asking, oh when are you getting married, who cares? When my husband asked me to marry him I remember telling my mom he is a wonderful man, my mom said then marry him, I said why, it's great right now, I don't want to get married, she said, you'll grow into marriage, he is a wonderful man and he will be a great husband, and he was/is...I was not a wonderful wife, I didn't "grow" into it.

[Hurt & Alone]

We live in a completly different age than our forefathers did. Woman have a much larger role in society now, not saying this is a bad thing, we have fought to hard to be where we are today. Woman of the past depended on a man IMO for survival reasons. Therefore, the woman gave up alot of her own self worth becasue without a man she was nothing. this has led to a woman standing up for herself and not necessarily needing a man to depend on. So the all about me is so true because we can do that now.

 

Marraiges are a nice Cinderlla theory but in reality marraiges like the fairtales very seldom exist. Divorce rates are astronomical compared to 30 years ago. Nothing lasts forever and people now realize that thier own self happiness means more than anything in the world.

[lost4ever]

Sorry about posting so much, you girls really hit home with me today.

 

Marraiges are a nice Cinderlla theory but in reality marraiges like the fairtales very seldom exist.

 

I read a comic the other day it had a mom reading a bed time story to a little girl and the line said....... the prince shared all of his inter-feelings with the princess, and supported all her career goals, and gave her the freedom to live her dreams.

[RealityCheck]

I don't get that lonely on my own, I dunnow maybe things will change when I am 50 but for now I don't feel lonely at all, I love my space and love the idea of havig someone complement my life not add to in all the miserable ways that married couples complain about. Honestly show me one happily married couple who is truly enjoying marriage and I will show you a pig that can fly.

 

TC I really appreciate your views. I so agree of having someone to complement my life and not add to all the miserable ways.... that is my thoughts as well.

[Tomcat33]

It's not enough for people to think like this, I believe society in general needs to change, so that people who DO feel like this are not pressured into getting married, because that is the "right thing to do". I honestly believe that we need to stop telling children that you grow up and meet prince charming and live happly ever after, it's bunk,. and I honestly believe people need to stop asking, oh when are you getting married, who cares? When my husband asked me to marry him I remember telling my mom he is a wonderful man, my mom said then marry him, I said why, it's great right now, I don't want to get married, she said, you'll grow into marriage, he is a wonderful man and he will be a great husband, and he was/is...I was not a wonderful wife, I didn't "grow" into it.

 

I agree it's nonesense that you "grow" into a marriage. That doesn't even make sense if you are true to yourself, and I have heard that theory that you grow to love someone so many times. What a bunch of bull. I think people grow to love someone or grow to love marriage if they throw in the towel to what their expectations of life are. The only way you can grow to do anything is if you compromise part of who you are and what you want.

I guess that's what marriage really boils down to for some. I do believe there are a lot of people who really want it and really want the person they are with, but I would even go as far as to say that it is typically women who really want it in every respect. Men tend to go into marriage with that attitude, surprise surprise they later find themselves in an existential crisis trying to figure out if they should maybe cater to their personal needs instead, and low and behold the A is born.

 

Marraiges are a nice Cinderlla theory but in reality marraiges like the fairtales very seldom exist. Divorce rates are astronomical compared to 30 years ago. Nothing lasts forever and people now realize that thier own self happiness means more than anything in the world.

 

yup! that's what I'm talking about...it's a shame that it hits a little late and others have to get hurt because of the internal changes that happen to those that expected to grow to love marriage.

[RealityCheck]

Divorce rates are astronomical compared to 30 years ago. Nothing lasts forever and people now realize that thier own self happiness means more than anything in the world.

 

Don't need the Divorce papers to see the divorce that exists in most marriages. The stats are much higher in the four walls.

[Hurt & Alone]

Unfortunatly, had to live through it inorder to realize it. But thankfully I realized it at a much younger age than most.

[Hurt & Alone]

Don't need the Divorce papers to see the divorce that exists in most marriages. The stats are much higher in the four walls.

 

 

Seen this too many times to count.

[Tomcat33]

Don't need the Divorce papers to see the divorce that exists in most marriages. The stats are much higher in the four walls.

 

SO true. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Divroce happens without papers years before anything even hits a ciritical point in a rel. That is what is so damn discouraging about marriage.

 

I ask myself, why would I trade in my freedom to be with someone that I will in time fall into the trap of not giving a damn, stop trying. Part of what I like about being single is the notion that I am constantly trying to improve myself. What we all know what happens in long term rels. we become so damned complacent, and that goes both ways. How in the word can that be something to look forward to. If I had dime for everytime I hear "well I don't have to try anymore I am married now" from both sides of the coin, blechhhh what and awful way to live.

[RealityCheck]

I agree it's nonesense that you "grow" into a marriage. That doesn't even make sense if you are true to yourself, and I have heard that theory that you grow to love someone so many times. What a bunch of bull.

 

Growth is stumped when spouses are sucking the life out each other!

[outofdarkness]

well...at least you have the guts to admit that M is not for you...If more couples would admit this BEFORE creating an absolute mess where sooo many people get hurt, the divorce rate wouldn't be what it is and infidelity rates so high...This is what I've said all along, but it's just not realistic..Why can't the person just NOT commit in the first place and if they DO commit, why can't they get out BEFORE the A begins..This is a big debate too because so many people in A's say that it just happened or they didn't realize they were so uhappy before the A....

 

Don't give me that much credit, I always thought this way, I still got married, I still had an A. It's not enough for people to think like this, I believe society in general needs to change, so that people who DO feel like this are not pressured into getting married, because that is the "right thing to do". I honestly believe that we need to stop telling children that you grow up and meet prince charming and live happly ever after, it's bunk,. and I honestly believe people need to stop asking, oh when are you getting married, who cares? When my husband asked me to marry him I remember telling my mom he is a wonderful man, my mom said then marry him, I said why, it's great right now, I don't want to get married, she said, you'll grow into marriage, he is a wonderful man and he will be a great husband, and he was/is...I was not a wonderful wife, I didn't "grow" into it.

Yeah, I NEVER mention marriage to our daughter..She's 16 and all she talks about is HER career, HER travels..There's never a WE!!! I get so excited to hear her talk this way! I always try to emphasize to her how very important it is for her to finish school, have a career of her own and feel comfortable in her own skin...I realize I guess that you can't ever depend on someone else for YOUR happiness and well being...She is so much different from me..By the time I was her age, I had already been dating my H for a year...At just 17!! I can't imagine if she were to meet the man that she would eventually marry right now..I'd prob. lock her up! LOL!

[RealityCheck]

Yeah, I NEVER mention marriage to our daughter..She's 16 and all she talks about is HER career, HER travels..There's never a WE!!! I get so excited to hear her talk this way! I always try to emphasize to her how very important it is for her to finish school, have a career of her own and feel comfortable in her own skin...I realize I guess that you can't ever depend on someone else for YOUR happiness and well being...She is so much different from me..By the time I was her age, I had already been dating my H for a year...At just 17!! I can't imagine if she were to meet the man that she would eventually marry right now..I'd prob. lock her up! LOL!

 

Oy! I can relate! I do believe the kids today are not so much in a hurry! I know my son isn't! He is all about self discovery and experiencing life. Says he will live with me until he's 40 so he can have a place to crash in between his travels. NOT! Lmaoooooo

[Hurt & Alone]

Sorry about posting so much, you girls really hit home with me today.

 

Marraiges are a nice Cinderlla theory but in reality marraiges like the fairtales very seldom exist.

 

I read a comic the other day it had a mom reading a bed time story to a little girl and the line said....... the prince shared all of his inter-feelings with the princess, and supported all her career goals, and gave her the freedom to live her dreams.

 

This reminds me. It is time to put my 3 year old daughter to bed. I will have to read a bed time story that involves the horrors of the daily news. This way as she gets older she will not live in a fairytale land where everything is wonderful and know how to handel real life.

....Just like the Walgreens commercial's...in a perfect world...

[Mino]

what do you think of a marriage lasting 5 years with an expiration date, like a drivers Liecense? After the five years are up , both have to decide if they want to renew an addional five years. Agreements are drawn up when registering about child support, alimoney, just in case, you let marriage expire. I think this concept will make spouses work harder on keeping each other happy because the union is not taken for granted. If you do grow apart, its not major drama trying to leave. One party does not have to pay for the rest of thier life for someone who can work themselves.

[RealityCheck]

This reminds me. It is time to put my 3 year old daughter to bed. I will have to read a bed time story that involves the horrors of the daily news. This way as she gets older she will not live in a fairytale land where everything is wonderful and know how to handel real life.

....Just like the Walgreens commercial's...in a perfect world...

 

Yes, I thought about smucking Cinderella and Prince Charming upside the head a few times.....lol Sorry a$$ed story to drill in a child's head. I like my little one to stick to Fern Gully types of stories.

[Tomcat33]

Growth is stumped when spouses are sucking the life out each other!

 

 

Well that's just it personal growth is next to impossible next to someone you are in a marriage with. And there is a difference between being with someone in an LTR and being married to them. In an LTR you still run the risk that you might lose them so it sort of forces people to roll with the punches to keep up with your partner's changes and goals. But when you are married that unconditional love goes out the window often times because the idea is "they ain't going no where so why entertain their changes?"the growth is of the family unit now not personal. That's why so many people feel like their dreams are gone once they decide to tie knot.

 

Just today I met with my financial planner my last fianancial planner went missing in action and none of his clients knew what happened to him or why he left so abruptly stopped returning calls etc. Finally the firm let him go. I had my exfinancial planner for a good 6 yrs and he LOVED what he did he was amazing at it and was in an LTR and knew he had problems and had put off the marriage he would joke to me and say "nah not marriage yet I have to put it off some more". One day I found out he was getting married, and for the next 1.5 yr after that it was this deterioration of his business. I have other friends who used his services and we were all wondering what was going on his personal life that he abandonned ship in suhc a voilent manner. Well today I come to find out there was speculation that he left the business because his W did not like what he did for a living and wanted him to continue in her family business. I was shocked to hear that because this guy was an ace, stocks were his life and he was EXCELLENT at what he did.

 

It is speculation but it left me thinking, wow that marriage is going to be short lived because one can given up their goals today to please a partner but it is SO going to catch up with them in time. The resentment ball has started to roll and it's only time until it becomes bulldoser sized.

I could be wrong but I see it happen more often than not, too many compromises that eventually make couples resent one another..

[RealityCheck]

what do you think of a marriage lasting 5 years with an expiration date, like a drivers Liecense? After the five years are up , both have to decide if they want to renew an addional five years. Agreements are drawn up when registering about child support, alimoney, just in case, you let marriage expire. I think this concept will make spouses work harder on keeping each other happy because the union is not taken for granted. If you do grow apart, its not major drama trying to leave. One party does not have to pay for the rest of thier life for someone who can work themselves.

 

Gee you could be onto something there Mino....but FIVE years!!!....lol