Can we talk?

[Cliche]

I don't think is an MM/OW problem as much as a general relationship problem. But I've grown to "know" and respect you in here, so I'd like to hear some comments from familiar people instead of going to a diff. forum.

 

I have emotional baggage from my marriage. A lot of it. This is my first real R since my marriage. I would have had a very difficult time in a situationally perfect R, but the "he's married" portion of this obviously complicates it and enhances a lot of my sensitivity.

 

That being said, I think I'm starting to use his married status as some sort of crutch or excuse or something. While I'm sure some of you would consider me foolish, I 100% believe him that his marriage is and has been as "over" as he says. And considering I have been physically helping him move out, I know that it is imminent. I know the stories on here about men waffling at the last minute, but for many reasons, I don't think that is MM and his W. I'm pretty sure they're done and just deconstructing their lives to move on to new ones.

 

Yet, when I feel emotionally sensitive, I use his one lie (that he was physically separated and he isn't) against him. Here's the current example: I had a very difficult conversation with exH this week. He's very mean, and he hit all my weak points. I have been in a funk all week. The other day MM and I were supposed to have a full day together starting at lunch into the next day when we had plans. MM told me that he got some work dumped in his lap (100% true...we work in the same business so I know), and he probably would't be by until 7 or 8. He didn't get over until 9:30. I freaked out on him and screamed that he must have been having a nice dinner with his W. He just shook his head, because he thought I was over this stuff (strange thing is, I think I am over that stuff. I do not really think that is what was doing, but I was hurt so that was the easy thing to use against him).

 

We had a long conversation. He offered me space. I offered him space. Neither of us accepted the offer.

 

So I'd like some advice. I am emotionally stunted because of the events of my marriage. I know it. I was in therapy for a year right after my separation. Stopped therapy for a few years and am back in it now. It is working. I feel better than I did just a few months ago when I was feeling so depressed I didn't want to get out of bed. I also feel "strong" enough to end this R if it is unhealthy for me, but the fact that I do feel able to move on seems to indicate to me that I don't need to.

 

I love MM. I love him with all my heart. I really believe that we will be together if I don't sabotage this R. He has and continues to be with me, support me and love me, even though my behavior to him has sometimes been emotionally abusive. I seem to think that I've come so far in my work on myself, why take a break now, and he has come so far on moving his life away from his M, why take a break now. But I guess I'm wondering....I don't even know. Is it possible for me to fully heal myself while I'm in an R, any R, considering that I'm getting total loving support, without fear of reprisal, from my partner? I know this type of support is rare. But I can't stay just because of that. I just don't know if the healing of me will be more natural and faster with or without a partner.

 

Anybody been through this type of emotional growth? Insights?

[Woggle]

I think that you still have that baggage from your marriage and you are in another dysfunctional relationship because it sounds familiar. Right now a healthy relationship to you would be like taking ana norexic to an all you can eat buffet. This relationship with the MM is going nowhere and will only hurt you and cause you even more baggage in the long run. Better off just to stay single until you get yourself sorted out and are ready to handle a healthy relationship.

[whichwayisup]

Bottomline, if you and the MM are ever going to have a life together, you gotta give eachother space right now. Let him sort out his divorce, moving out and all the emotions/baggage that follows afterwards. It WILL be an unhealthy relationship if he isn't alone for a little while. People need time to figure stuff out, grieve the loss and to fix themselves. The MM won't have enough to give to you, let alone be free to really love you until he is ready. He may need some counselling too...Just like you did when your marriage ended.

 

You two are clinging to eachother, knowing that you both need time and space - THAT is unhealthy and neither of you are going to grow 'together' in a good way. He won't change anything until you are out of his life completely for afew months.

 

I hope this makes sense to you.

 

You also don't trust him at his word, the negative feelings are there inside you and again, it's not healthy. How can anyone have a real open and loving relationship if the trust and faith isn't there?

[justice]

I've often said that one must first work on themselves first, find out who you really are first before becoming involved with anyone else. How can you expect anyone else to love you if you don't 100% love yourself first? Just my humble opinion.

I hope everything works out for you. Good luck.

[Cliche]

I've often said that one must first work on themselves first, find out who you really are first before becoming involved with anyone else. How can you expect anyone else to love you if you don't 100% love yourself first? Just my humble opinion.

I hope everything works out for you. Good luck.

I know you're right. I've given the same advice, myself, to others. But I think I'm pretty self aware. My issue seems to be more about controlling my emotions, not being aware of them. I think this is where I struggle. I know who I am. I know what I have to work on. And I'm at the stage of figuring out how, with the help of my therapist, to work on them. Does this stage have to be done alone? Maybe it does. I simply don't know.

[justice]

I know you're right. I've given the same advice, myself, to others. But I think I'm pretty self aware. My issue seems to be more about controlling my emotions, not being aware of them. I think this is where I struggle. I know who I am. I know what I have to work on. And I'm at the stage of figuring out how, with the help of my therapist, to work on them. Does this stage have to be done alone? Maybe it does. I simply don't know.

I had help too, therapy was wonderful for me, but honestly, I did find it better that I worked on it alone. I found new strength in myself that I didn't know existed before. Somehow when you work on it alone, you find out who you really are and just exactly what you alone can really do and it feels wonderful. I can now own up to everything and look at it all and say with pride "I did it myself".

[Cliche]

You two are clinging to eachother, knowing that you both need time and space - THAT is unhealthy and neither of you are going to grow 'together' in a good way.

On days like the other day when we had this discussion (they're not even fights...no one raises their voice after my first outburst), it does feel like clinging. I think that is when I get most concerned. Ugh, I hate the clingy feeling, WWIU. You've hit that nail on the head.

 

But for the 2 months prior, it felt easy and natural.

 

I wish I knew what is the real state. I mean, I'm sure you don't know the real state since you don't know us.

 

If I felt bad most of the time, or even so much of the time that it overshadowed the rest, this would be easier. But we really feel like great, healthy partners a good 90% of the time. Hell, how many long-term married couples have that, much less those operating under circumstances like mine?

 

Can I heal if I spend less time with him instead of ending it completly? I'm just not convinced that is the way to go (meaning cold turkey). Believe me, I'm open to it, and I can live with it without a bunch of self-pity and drama, but I'm not convinced. I know myself, and I know when I make the "right" decisions, I feel mostly sure, but I don't on ending this temporarily.

 

Has anyone worked on themselves individually while being in a union? Has it worked? Can it? I'm thinking I do need more space, but can it be in a way that involves me spending less time with him on a weekly basis instead of cold turkey? For instance, before the events of the other day, the 2 weeks preceding, we only spent 1 day away from one another...that, I think, is too much. Maybe that's why I freaked in teh first place. Maybe my internal guide was telling me I can't handle that overload of togetherness yet. Hmmm......

[whichwayisup]

But we really feel like great, healthy partners a good 90% of the time. Hell, how many long-term married couples have that, much less those operating under circumstances like mine?

 

Yeah but I'm sure the 10% of bad stuff kind of outweighs the 90% of good stuff. The effect it does to your ego, self esteem IS long term - Hense the trust issues, outburts, assuming the worst case senario.

 

Many long term marriages DO have that and more. Problem is C, you are not married to him, so you only get certain parts of his life shared with you. You may share everything with him, but he has alot in his life you don't know about, let alone are part of...

[Cliche]

Yeah but I'm sure the 10% of bad stuff kind of outweighs the 90% of good stuff. The effect it does to your ego, self esteem IS long term - Hense the trust issues, outburts, assuming the worst case senario.

 

Many long term marriages DO have that and more. Problem is C, you are not married to him, so you only get certain parts of his life shared with you. You may share everything with him, but he has alot in his life you don't know about, let alone are part of...

I think this is true of any R, even the married ones (hence why we're all here in the first place).

 

Again, the M part is secondary. I'm just not focusing on that right now. It's not necessary nor healthy for me.

 

But, WWIU, do not think your wise advice is wasted on me. Your clingy comment has me thinking deeply, and I think you've hit on something. I think you may have helped me more than you know with that one word.

[whichwayisup]

But, WWIU, do not think your wise advice is wasted on me. Your clingy comment has me thinking deeply, and I think you've hit on something. I think you may have helped me more than you know with that one word.

 

I'm glad to help you. Take time for you, do a pro/con list, pour out your thoughts. Go sit in a park somewhere and think where there are no distractions, phones ringing etc...

[norajane]

He's very mean

 

Why do you want to be with a man who is mean?

 

 

Does this stage have to be done alone?

 

Yes, because you are focusing so much on him and his marriage and what is going on with him, him, him. You need to be on your own so you can focus on YOURSELF, without the added distraction of his problems.

 

Also, you are ADDING to your baggage by being with this MM - adding to your baggage before you've even worked through some of the old baggage. It's like debts - you can't get out from under them if you keep adding to them every day.

[GreenEyedLady]

I love him with all my heart. I really believe that we will be together if I don't sabotage this R. He has and continues to be with me, support me and love me, even though my behavior to him has sometimes been emotionally abusive. I seem to think that I've come so far in my work on myself, why take a break now, and he has come so far on moving his life away from his M, why take a break now. But I guess I'm wondering....I don't even know. Is it possible for me to fully heal myself while I'm in an R, any R, considering that I'm getting total loving support, without fear of reprisal, from my partner? I know this type of support is rare. But I can't stay just because of that. I just don't know if the healing of me will be more natural and faster with or without a partner.

 

Anybody been through this type of emotional growth? Insights?

 

I think number one that you cannot sabotage a R that is based on mutual love and respect...If he loves you and is willing to committ to the R, committing to the R means committing to you...to accepting who you are: the good parts as well as the not so good...especially since he knows your past...

 

That said, he may decide he is not having his needs met by you...so that is something to balance...

 

I believe that you can heal yourself in or out of a R...You just have to allow the process to happen...You need to identify triggers and work on changing your response to the trigger...

 

Healing is a process...I am wondering how you are going to feel if you lose the love of your life because you want to see if you'll heal faster alone...I am thinking a break-up will exacerbate the problem and make the process longer because then you'll have another R to heal from...

 

Why not tell your partner what you've told us...and work on this issue together...If he's giving you such great support, how would you do without it? And remember, R's are work and they are about sharing...if he's willing to help you, why not let him...

[Cliche]

Why do you want to be with a man who is mean?

Oh, sorry, that was my pronoun problem. The "him" who is mean is my exH, not my MM. My MM has never even raised his voice at me.

[RealityCheck]

Cliche,

 

Whew! Glad you straightened that out!...lol

 

I would like to ask you when did you get involved with you MM. In other words, were you linked with him in your marriage? If not, how long after your separation/divorce did you become involved in the affair. And; how long have you been in your affair?

[Cliche]

I think number one that you cannot sabotage a R that is based on mutual love and respect...If he loves you and is willing to committ to the R, committing to the R means committing to you...to accepting who you are: the good parts as well as the not so good...especially since he knows your past...

 

That said, he may decide he is not having his needs met by you...so that is something to balance...

 

I believe that you can heal yourself in or out of a R...You just have to allow the process to happen...You need to identify triggers and work on changing your response to the trigger...

 

Healing is a process...I am wondering how you are going to feel if you lose the love of your life because you want to see if you'll heal faster alone...I am thinking a break-up will exacerbate the problem and make the process longer because then you'll have another R to heal from...

 

Why not tell your partner what you've told us...and work on this issue together...If he's giving you such great support, how would you do without it? And remember, R's are work and they are about sharing...if he's willing to help you, why not let him...

 

Gel, thank you for your input.

 

There are certain triggers that I have identified and worked through. That's why I said, I've come such a loooong way from just a few months ago. He's noticed it. My kids have told me I'm happier. My therapist has hailed my progress. But what I did this week really sucked. I couldn't control myself for the first time in like 2 months.

 

I did tell MM all of this. He has told me more than once that he knows who I am and what I entail and he accepts me with my wounds, and he won't pull away his love and friendship from me because of them. He told me the other day that he'd give me space if I need it, however I needed it, or if I didn't need it.

 

I just don't want to keep hurting his feelings. I know what I'm doing is wrong. I have some idea why I do it. I just seem to have some issues of self control every once in awhile. But they're getting shorter in duration and rarer. So that's something.

 

*sigh* He and I talked about focuing on progress instead of regression. And I told him I'd overcome these demons and he said demons is too strong of a word. So we're turning them into ferrets.

 

He really does give me so much in the way of support and understanding and acceptance. But I'm not always returning the favor.

 

And because I don't want to hurt him and because I don't want to hurt me, I want to make sure I heal. And that's why I guess I don't know if I can do that with us so near. But you're right, GEL, I don't know if I can handle him far, either.

 

I keep going back to "clingy." I think that is the problem. Maybe the trigger to this wasn't the ex conversation, maybe it was the very long amount of time we spent together. Maybe our R doesn't have to change, but maybe I need to remember to keep my own life, the one independent of him, happy and going. Maybe when I lose that a little--the "without him" part of my life, I get clingy, and my internal intuition is telling me to take a day or two on me. Does that make sense?

[Cliche]

Cliche,

 

Whew! Glad you straightened that out!...lol

 

I would like to ask you when did you get involved with you MM. In other words, were you linked with him in your marriage? If not, how long after your separation/divorce did you become involved in the affair. And; how long have you been in your affair?

 

Yeah, that whole mean man thing...btdt, have the t-shirt.

 

I suspect part of the reason I fell so head over heels for MM is because, emotionally and attitude-wise, he is the polar opposite of ex.

 

No, I was not involved with MM during my marriage. My marriage ended for other reasons. I did not date for almost 3 years after my separation/divorce. MM is the first true R I've had since my M. He told me he was separated and in the process of divorce when we met, but he did lie about that. I know that is a part of the problem. I needed to be able to trust in an R because of my issues, and he made that very difficult to me with his dishonesty. But we have worked and worked and worked through that. And I've agreed to forgive him for that, so I'm not going to keep beating up him or me over it. He was not separated physically, but now refers to it as an "emotional separation." There is some truth to that. We've been together 15 months, half of which I knew his true situation.

 

His W is in the process of moving 1,000 miles away, he's in the process of moving temporarily with a friend, and they're closing up their administrative affairs. I suspect she'll be gone by October.

[RealityCheck]

Cliche,

 

We can get to the point of getting over our emotional baggage, however that does not mean we have to "like" the person. There will be certain triggers that your exH will always set a fire in you! This does not mean you still carry baggage! That is the exH.

 

Yes the emotional upset can at times be difficult and some get caught in the cross fire of those emotions. No different than coming home from a days work! Hell! It's all in a days work!

 

Important is that you recoginze where its coming from and not view it as the same in another person.

[PoshPrincess]

On days like the other day when we had this discussion (they're not even fights...no one raises their voice after my first outburst), it does feel like clinging. I think that is when I get most concerned. Ugh, I hate the clingy feeling, WWIU. You've hit that nail on the head.

 

If you really love this man then do everything you can NOT to be clingy. Take it from me, it's one of the things that drove my exMM away in the end. I am sure if I had been more patient things would've been different. I had changed from the strong, independent woman he had fallen in love with! Cliche, you have to learn to love yourself before you can be loved by someone else, and only YOU can make you happy. You can't rely on anyone else to do this for you, as I am sure you've learned in your therapy.

 

I wish I had taken this advice on board. I wish I had bitten my tongue instead of constantly questioning MM about our R. I suppose if he had loved me that much though, it wouldn't have mattered although I know I changed so much and had ended up an emotional wreck.

 

Just look after yourself. If you think this R is destructive to your personal well-being then end it, or at least take a break from each other until you have both sorted yourselves out.

[frannie]

I did tell MM all of this. He has told me more than once that he knows who I am and what I entail and he accepts me with my wounds, and he won't pull away his love and friendship from me because of them. He told me the other day that he'd give me space if I need it, however I needed it, or if I didn't need it.

 

I just don't want to keep hurting his feelings. I know what I'm doing is wrong. I have some idea why I do it. I just seem to have some issues of self control every once in awhile. But they're getting shorter in duration and rarer. So that's something.

 

Hmm well you're bound to have problems trusting him after he lied to you. Ok you've both rationalised (or whatever) that lie away, but it was still a lie. So you know, he has to deal with the fallout of that lie. Yes, he's being understanding of your not trusting him but you know... he has to be doesn't he? He's partly to 'blame' for that situation arising.

 

So... yes, you need to work on your trust of him, but don't beat yourself up or think you're less than perfect (everyone is, you're no different) just because you're reacting perfectly normally to the situation you're in.

 

Cut yourself some slack.

[Cliche]

Hmm well you're bound to have problems trusting him after he lied to you. Ok you've both rationalised (or whatever) that lie away, but it was still a lie. So you know, he has to deal with the fallout of that lie. Yes, he's being understanding of your not trusting him but you know... he has to be doesn't he? He's partly to 'blame' for that situation arising.

 

So... yes, you need to work on your trust of him, but don't beat yourself up or think you're less than perfect (everyone is, you're no different) just because you're reacting perfectly normally to the situation you're in.

 

Cut yourself some slack.

 

Frannie,

After much introspection this week, this was actually the solution I came up with. I need to cut myself some slack and focus on how far I've (and we've) come. If he ever decides he'd rather focus on the negative, that's his business (though after our conversations, I'm pretty darn sure he doesn't want to. He still remains nothing but supportive and loving.) But I'm not falling into that trap of self-flagellation again.

 

I also am heeding some of the other advice on here, and still focusing on WWIU's clingy comment. I'm clingy...not anymore in a when's he leaving sort of way...but I catch myself sometimes falling into wanting him so much that I start feeling like I need him. And interestingly enough, I think this mostly happens the more time we spend together. I guess that is a good thing. My intuition is telling me to just step back and take the time for myself. I just need to learn to listen.

 

GEL is also right. If we have true love and respect, which I really think we do, then I can start relaxing about, well, everything. He is not my ex. He is not seeking to hurt me. And even if this doesn't work out, me getting worked up won't help matters.

 

Also, based on Dazed's post in the infidelity forum, I need to forgive MM completely. I think I'm still doing a halfa$$ed job at it. When I start feeling emotional, I go right back to BUT HE LIED!. Of course he did. I honestly want to move on from that. Honestly. So I need to.

 

So, I need to remind myself:

1. Cut myself some slack.

2. Relax.

 

And frankly, I'll never have a rewarding relationship with any man if I can't get these two simple principles down.

 

Thank you all. As is usually the case, you've all been more helpful than you know.