Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 When a MM returns to his M, do you think some BW's ever have the ability to look into themselves to see what may have made their H stray? Or is it a case of blaming the OW because they're easier to blame (as unknowns in most circumstances) than accepting the possibility that H, that W has loved and cared for, strayed because he did not care for his W like he once did/felt more attracted to OW/was bored of his M/lacked something from W that he got from OW? Does anyone ever completely blame the MM?
Mino Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Hi JNRR, How are you doing? My opinion on that is NO, BW always blames Ow. Can't you see it in thier post? They claim we got Our Hooks,claws, in thier H. They believe Ow pursued thier Inocent H. He just couldn't get away!! LOL Go look at divorce buster website.... it says it all, Pathetic in my eyes.will Pm you in a few days, getting my daughter ready for school!
simplegirl Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 My MM W blames him, she also blames me (the OW, she doesn't know who it is or for sure that there is one), but she mainly blames him only because she hates him. Their relationship is very volatile and she doesn't like anything he does. (I know the OW putting down the W but I know them and I have seen their relationship in action for years now.)
norajane Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Have you ever read any of the threads here by women who find their guys watching porn or ogling other women? If so, you'd notice that one of their first, last, and never-diminishing thoughts and fears is that they aren't 'enough' for their men, that they aren't attractive enough, that their men don't love them enough, that their men would prefer those porn women, etc. It's a huge hit on their self-esteem and security and confidence. It's far, far worse for women who have actually been betrayed.
simplegirl Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 I was the BS in my marriage and I was angry but I was more angry with my H than I was with the OW. I was mad at her and when I run into her now my heart still pumps like crazy but I was way more mad at him and myself. I knew what he reasons were for doing what he did and I blamed us for not working on them before it got to that point. We did fix the problems and we were much stronger after the A. If only he could have taken half as much responsibility with his jobs and money as he did with his A we would probably still be married. He is still one of my best friends.
herenow Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Does anyone blame MM? I do! Always have. He is the one that means something to me. I have said it so many times, but here goes: The OW is insignificant and has no power to hurt me. My H did that and I blame him. He blames himself as well.
Onelife Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 W blames MM for having an affair but the reason was just "it happens...it's human...we all make mistakes and need to be forgiven". It would be good if she really means that and can forget and forgive. I am not sure if she will ever REALLY look into herself and see if she could find anything that caused him to stray. So I don't know and will not know if whatever problems they might have (or not) will be solved in the long run. For me, I've learned the lesson and will not put myself into this mess again.
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 I guess it depends on where you read about it. I've seen posts on other forums specializing in infidelity, and created for the victims of it. The posts I've seen are not only angry at what WS did, but we are talking blazing angry. Do they blame WS? Damn skippy they do. They also blame OW as well, but what it comes down to is this - they still love their WS and want things to work, so they deal with that anger, and try to find ways to work through it so they can reconcile. Forgiving someone and working toward reconciliation doesn't mean you aren't angry. I have seen very, very few posts there that didn't blame the WS/MM. Sometimes you'll see people post things they have done that may have contributed to creating an environment ripe for cheating, but not too often. Most of the time, it was life as usual - and the cheating was entirely the fault of the WS who was nothing more than bored and looking for a convenient side item.
Author Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted August 17, 2007 Author Posted August 17, 2007 The reason I ask, is I find so many generalisations regarding OW from some BW, not just on this forum but on sites like divorcebusting. I can see why that may happen, as MM have very similar behaviour patterns to each other. But then again, every situation is always different, different social factors, different religious beliefs, differing views on M, different cultures, all sorts of factors differ. It seems OW become defined by a single act of being involved with their MM. Therefore, in some cases, they are viewed by some as "bad people". I dont know whether a M can work if the BW diverts all (or at least most) anger away from the WH onto the OW. Where is the learning curve to fix the M there?
justice Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 I blamed my exh for his lack of self control and his lack of moral responsibility. But then again, I did see first hand evidence of the OW in our case, relentlessly pursuing my h and not leaving either one of us alone for ten seconds. So I blame her too, in reality though, the ow only knows and believes for the better part what the betrayer wants her to hear. So I think in my case it was 50/50.
outofdarkness Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 responsible for he or her own behavior?...I mean, noone blindfolds, gags and handcuffs you to MAKE you have an A..Whether you're an MM or OW...I can see that the BS would and does contribute to the demise of an M, but I can't see that there was anything "done" or said" by anyone to MAKE someone stray...If there are problems in the M, then they need to be brought out in the open and dealt with in an adult way BEFORE one partner decides to do something stupid, and even if he/she does, it's STILL their decision and therefore THEY must accept the consequences! Personally, I blame my H MUCH more then te OW...HE is the one that said the vows, HE is the one who had a family..Do I LIKE the fact that W get involved w/ MM...NO! It's always happened and it always will...All we can do as married couples, is try to keep the lines of communication open and our R's healthy...This is true in ANY R..not just marriages..The bottom line is that if someone wants to cheat, they'll cheat..Sometimes, it doesn't have a thing to do w/ the W or the marriage or the fact that their dog just died...It's just in their blood!
PoshPrincess Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 When a MM returns to his M, do you think some BW's ever have the ability to look into themselves to see what may have made their H stray? Or is it a case of blaming the OW because they're easier to blame (as unknowns in most circumstances) than accepting the possibility that H, that W has loved and cared for, strayed because he did not care for his W like he once did/felt more attracted to OW/was bored of his M/lacked something from W that he got from OW? Does anyone ever completely blame the MM? I think it's human nature to blame the OP rather than the WS. I guess it's because this person is unknown, as you say, in most circumstances, and also because deep down one wants to believe that their H/W only strayed because they were relentlessly pursued. In some cases it's quite the opposite. We all want to believe the best of our loved-ones at the end of the day. Of course, some OPs DO pursue the MP. I didn't chase after or seek to 'catch' my MM or any other MM, but I still have to take responsibility for my part in it all. How could I not? I don't feel I am the one who betrayed the BW though - MM was the one who made the vows to forsake all others, not me. I think sometimes it's more a case of us OW inadvertently betraying womankind!
Author Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted August 17, 2007 Author Posted August 17, 2007 OOD - thanks for the insight into that. I guess this stems from the post over on Infidelity where a MM has told us he loves his W and has also been open about stringing an OW along. I was surprised at some of the responses from BW's - one even said he should go to the docs and tell him or her that he had gone insane - anything to save the M. IMO there seemed a lack of wonder about why should the M be saved and instead a knee-jerk reaction to the MM dumping OW via email and working on the M. To that - I agree, in that instance the MM should work on his M (although I didnt agree he should dump the OW by email more because IMO I think she will counter-attack prolonging the pain and reminder of the A for the W.) It just begged the question of whether it simply becomes a "I MUST save this M no matter what!" without a real honest justification behind it and a real overhaul of the problems that were within the M to begin with before the MM looked elsewhere. And to do that, it becomes easier to place blame on the OW, an unknown entity who has already done an ungracious act - so other ungracious acts can easily be suspected of her. Posh - hey! I agree that OW need to take responsibility as well as MM. The W in my situation blames H just as much as me, if not more. Its hard figuring out M when you havent been married before.
Cliche Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Its hard figuring out M when you havent been married before. Ah hell, JNRR, it's even harder figuring them out when you have been married before!
RealityCheck Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Ah hell, JNRR, it's even harder figuring them out when you have been married before! OMG! LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I was sipping a drink when I read this and I gotta tell ya, I damn near choked! My drink came flying out of my mouth!.....lol This is halarious!
norajane Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 It just begged the question of whether it simply becomes a "I MUST save this M no matter what!" without a real honest justification behind it and a real overhaul of the problems that were within the M to begin with before the MM looked elsewhere. That's the premise behind commitment, isn't it? That you work to try to save the marriage instead of just letting it go right away? And I think there have been plenty of BS's who have posted here and on Infidelity who have said that the affair caused them to address the issues in their marriage, and, in the end, they were able to rebuild the marriage even stronger. Ladyjane, I believe, is one of those examples.
child_of_isis Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 Why does W get the blame for H's behavior but OW doesn't? If W is responsible for H's actions, then OW must be responsible also. Personally, I don't think anyone can "make" another do anything they don't want to do. But that is just my opinion. do you think some BW's ever have the ability to look into themselves to see what may have made their H stray?
outofdarkness Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 Why does W get the blame for H's behavior but OW doesn't? If W is responsible for H's actions, then OW must be responsible also. Personally, I don't think anyone can "make" another do anything they don't want to do. But that is just my opinion. EXACTLY! I said this in another post somewhere along the way....
HappyAtLast Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 EXACTLY! I said this in another post somewhere along the way.... Why does W get the blame for H's behavior but OW doesn't? If W is responsible for H's actions, then OW must be responsible also. Personally, I don't think anyone can "make" another do anything they don't want to do. But that is just my opinion. Having been the MM, I take 1000% responsibility for my actions. Was my BW a saint? Hardly> But that fact is entirely IRRELEVANT to the fact that I allowed myself to fall in love with another woman while married to my XW. Whatever she did or didn't do during the course of our marriage, the choice to stray was mine and mine alone and the blame that goes along with it.
Author Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted August 19, 2007 Author Posted August 19, 2007 Having been the MM, I take 1000% responsibility for my actions. Was my BW a saint? Hardly> But that fact is entirely IRRELEVANT to the fact that I allowed myself to fall in love with another woman while married to my XW. Whatever she did or didn't do during the course of our marriage, the choice to stray was mine and mine alone and the blame that goes along with it. HAL, I'm glad you take responsibility. I think if more MM were able to stand up and take responsibility, then the BW and the OW would both know their position in his life instead of fighting it out amongst themselves. But you're an MM who made a promise to his OW - and kept it, married her, loved her, enjoyed life. You're the OW dream (well, at least mine!) but unfortunately, you seemed at the end of your M regardless. Can I ask - if OW hadn't have come along, would have you left regardless? From other posts I have reasd from you I have always imagined this would have been the case, or did I assume wrongly?
Cliche Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 but unfortunately, you seemed at the end of your M regardless. Can I ask - if OW hadn't have come along, would have you left regardless? From other posts I have reasd from you I have always imagined this would have been the case, or did I assume wrongly? I'm not HAL, but I will say that I think this may be the only case where MM and OW end up together. I'm not sure I've seen many cases where MM leaves for OW, but when the marriage is near an end, sometimes the new relationship can be a catalyst for the change. I just don't think I've seen any truly intact marriages dissolve because of an A (unless BS kicks him/her to the curb). I just don't think an MM can leave for an OW, and I'm not convinced that it would end up a very good R if that were the case. This is all just my opinion and my anecdotal insight...might be wrong. It's part of that, if you love someone, set them free thing. I truly don't think us OW can make any man leave his life. It is his choice mostly (though not wholly) independent of us. If I have one big regret from my R, it is that I ever tried pushing MM to end his marriage for me. See, when I found out he wasn't separated, I told him I couldn't deal with that and did not want to be in an affair, and I asked him when his marriage would end. He told me the end of 2007. I freaked and told him no way and then started pushing and pushing, telling him he had to leave sooner. I wish I would've just accepted the date he gave me or, if I couldn't, move on at that point. Because the pushing hurt us both, and mostly me. And it was worthless since, as it turns out, his marriage will end at the end of 2007. Us OW make a lot of mistakes, but the biggest one is that we don't listen to what the MM tell us...they do tell us if they'll leave (usually by not giving a definitive answer), when they'll leave, why they'll leave, or if they're just with us for some sort of rush. But we don't listen. We try to have power and control over them. Just not good for us, imho.
HappyAtLast Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 I always planned to leave when my kids were grown. When I met my OW, although it was a bit sooner than I had planned to leave, I could not disrespect her by asking her to wait for me. quote=Je Ne Regrette Rien;1289518]HAL, I'm glad you take responsibility. I think if more MM were able to stand up and take responsibility, then the BW and the OW would both know their position in his life instead of fighting it out amongst themselves. But you're an MM who made a promise to his OW - and kept it, married her, loved her, enjoyed life. You're the OW dream (well, at least mine!) but unfortunately, you seemed at the end of your M regardless. Can I ask - if OW hadn't have come along, would have you left regardless? From other posts I have reasd from you I have always imagined this would have been the case, or did I assume wrongly?
lost4ever Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 I just don't think I've seen any truly intact marriages dissolve because of an A (unless BS kicks him/her to the curb). I just don't think an MM can leave for an OW, and I'm not convinced that it would end up a very good R if that were the case. Not an MM, but was a MW and I left my truly intact marriage for OP, it was a mistake, but it was mine. Not OP not H
NoIDidn't Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 When a MM returns to his M, do you think some BW's ever have the ability to look into themselves to see what may have made their H stray? Dumb question: Can anyone look into THEMSELVES to see what made ANOTHER person do something? Is this another way of saying whatever MM does, its his W's fault? When do the OW hold the MM responsible for his own actions? What does his W, or even the state of his M, have to do with what he does? Personally, I hold the people committing the offenses against me that betray my trust responsible. Whether it be my H, or my neighbor. But if my H and my neighbor both got together and betrayed me (in any way), I'd hold them both responsible. Maybe not equally, but definitely both responsible.
RealityCheck Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Dumb question: Can anyone look into THEMSELVES to see what made ANOTHER person do something? Is this another way of saying whatever MM does, its his W's fault? When do the OW hold the MM responsible for his own actions? What does his W, or even the state of his M, have to do with what he does? Personally, I hold the people committing the offenses against me that betray my trust responsible. Whether it be my H, or my neighbor. But if my H and my neighbor both got together and betrayed me (in any way), I'd hold them both responsible. Maybe not equally, but definitely both responsible. You know, I have to agree with DIN't here... There is no point playing the blame game. It serves no purpose. People are hurt and though the MM is so wonderful to the OW does not necessarily warrent the MM wonderful in his M.
Recommended Posts