How do you gain real confidence?

[Lights]

Just a question that's been burning me up.

 

How does one gain real confidence in one's dating skills when even the most basic of matters (such as getting a response to a hi, or having an approach be viewed as something enjoyable rather than irritating) are so ridiculously low-percentage that any positive outcome can be chalked up primarily to luck?

[Krytellan]

It sounds like you're not talking about dating skills but more of random social encounters? Some people are freaked out by being approached at random. Don't make it so much about you when it's likely more about the environment. I know when I walk the streets of the city people aren't exactly seeking social interaction... that's just the way it is. Even in the nicest (people-wise) city I've ever been in.

 

Do you get the same reaction when you are in natural social situations? Are you a man or woman?

[jcster]

By ignoring the "percentages" and learning to enjoy social interactions. You're going to have a tough time interacting with people unless you learn to value it. It's not a task, and it's not an investment - it's part of being human. Learn to see yourself in others and you'll be home free.

[KingCrimson]

approach random people with the sole purpose of not giving a ****, or taken to even more extreme, of purposefully getting rejected. it'll help you build confidence, and give you something to laugh about afterwards.

 

See a woman sitting by herself eating, smoking a cig, or reading? Walk up to her thinking "haha, I wonder how long it'll take her to get up and leave". Sit down and keep talking. Go on a political rant if you have to, but AVOID neutral small talk. Say opinionated things, controversial things, etc...

 

In another example, I used to be too afraid to even approach girls on campus bars to talk or dance. Why? Cause I was self-conscious. This is how I cured it: I'd run in, and start moshing. Pissed off a ton of people grinding to their ****ty rap, but I sure got laughs out of it and learned not to give a ****. Now I have no problem dancing with random girls

[Quest]

Think the key is probably just to enjoy the encounter and not think of it in terms of 'outcomes'. Genuine interest in another person always shines through whereas someone desperate for a romantic 'outcome' can be a bit off putting - particularly if the approach is totally random and uninvited.

[StayClose]

Just a question that's been burning me up.

 

How does one gain real confidence in one's dating skills when even the most basic of matters (such as getting a response to a hi, or having an approach be viewed as something enjoyable rather than irritating) are so ridiculously low-percentage that any positive outcome can be chalked up primarily to luck?

 

The percentage of people who are not irritated by random social encourners should not be "ridiculously low." Either you are mis-reading their reactions, or there is something threatening or bothersome in your approach.

 

I wouldn't appraoch anyone with the intention of getting rejections, but try starting random conversations with people on things in the environment - the weather, stores in the area, the dog she's walking or the book she's reading (the words on her t-shirt are probably NOT a good topic). Do this with no expectation of getting a phone number or taking it any farther. Do this regardless of whether she's wearing a ring.

 

THis will help you be more comfortable appoaching people. They may be sensing your discomfort and if you are relaxxed you are more likely to get a better response.

[DanielMadr]

Just a question that's been burning me up.

 

How does one gain real confidence in one's dating skills when even the most basic of matters (such as getting a response to a hi, or having an approach be viewed as something enjoyable rather than irritating) are so ridiculously low-percentage that any positive outcome can be chalked up primarily to luck?

 

Confidence has many parts. Basically two. Wilderness confidence...that you can survive e.g. grizzly attack. And Social confidence. Man not being social creature like women are and basically taking all rejection risks on yourself, it is something you have to work on pretty hard. But dont worry, that's why you have your balls for. It gives you plenty of testosteron which keeps you in emotional shade (you wont cry your tears off with self pitty).

 

So kick some grizzly's azz, do some parachuting, survive some streetfights or just take a course in self defence. Then give in order your career life (tell your boss to stick his finger up his silly....).

 

And to give in order your social confidence....you have to abandon your fears. Number one Fear of Rejection. You can tell yourself they dont know what they are missing and all that ego protecting lies but much better is to just dont give a f@ck. Your mission is to communicate with people, have fun and when you see some chick you might like you ask her for number. If she declines or flakes...so what. You need to find someone who really likes you. The worst think you can do is to "convince" someone to like you. So forget all gifts, dinners, flowers, strategies. Your only strategy is to have fun and to collect numbers. You will have tons of rejections and some numbers. It will give you an edge....you will learn not to crumble from rejection and you will have many options so you wont be that desperate guy.

 

I believe it is the only way. Ask for numbers and when you are not 100% that she digs you (and you dig her o/c) just call it a day and rip the number.

Side note: She really likes you when she wants to see you and is on her best behaviour. Dont tangle your life with someone stubborn, emotionally corrupt, lazy, selfish, mean etc. If you can take it OK. But your kids will suffer.

[Kamille]

Street and bar? Yeah it would be difficult. I say get your friends together an plan to have a house party. Invite lots of girls (if you don't know many, get your friends girlfriends to invite their friends). Conversation is usually pretty easy at parties because that's basically what parties are all about. Dinner parties are even better for meeting people, but perhaps more intimidating and perhaps not part of your current lifestyle.

[DanielMadr]

Street and bar? Yeah it would be difficult. I say get your friends together an plan to have a house party. Invite lots of girls (if you don't know many, get your friends girlfriends to invite their friends). Conversation is usually pretty easy at parties because that's basically what parties are all about. Dinner parties are even better for meeting people, but perhaps more intimidating and perhaps not part of your current lifestyle.

 

Too expensive, time consuming, not spontaneous, too needy and not very large pool to pick a fish from and actually quite intimidating for him and for the girls - these people know them, girls will have their bitch shields up.

 

Street is the best option.

 

Always Be Prepared.

[Kamille]

Too expensive, time consuming, not spontaneous, too needy and not very large pool to pick a fish from and actually quite intimidating for him and for the girls - these people know them, girls will have their bitch shields up.

 

Street is the best option.

 

Always Be Prepared.

 

And yet statistics show that most couples met by being introduced through friends or family. And a houseparty is actually cheaper then bars if it is of the BYOB kind. Girls have their bitch shields up in bars, not at parties. I know. I am one. Parties feel safer.

[jcster]

Meeting people is all about networking. Parties, despite the downsides that DanielMadr cited, are a great way to expand your network. Social ties multiply exponentially - so if you regularly get together with a varied group of friends, and have them bring their friends - you will find that in very little time you will have a much expanded pool to choose from.

 

Parties might be a lot of work - but they're far easier than wrestling grizzlies

[Trialbyfire]

How does one gain real confidence in one's dating skills when even the most basic of matters (such as getting a response to a hi, or having an approach be viewed as something enjoyable rather than irritating) are so ridiculously low-percentage that any positive outcome can be chalked up primarily to luck?

How to gain confidence in oneself:

 

You have to be honest and realistic about/to yourself. Next you have to accept that these are your attributes and target the negatives that you're unwilling to accept about yourself. Self-denial will never gain you true confidence.

 

Also, you have to not care what people think of you and do what feels right for you as a person, so you can keep your self-respect. The best relationships (romantic/friendly/familial) are when two people compromise and also learn to accept some of each other's foibles or eccentricities. Respect per se.

[StayClose]

And yet statistics show that most couples met by being introduced through friends or family. And a houseparty is actually cheaper then bars if it is of the BYOB kind. Girls have their bitch shields up in bars, not at parties. I know. I am one. Parties feel safer.

 

That works of your social network includes suitable people, but for many of us, it does not.

 

BTW, the bitch shield is still there at parties. Maybe not as bad as at bars, but it is often there. Whenever girls are hanging out with their friends, they are sensitive to their friend's judgements of whoever they are talking to, and if he's someone their friends might disapprove of, the bitch shield goes up.

[StayClose]

And to give in order your social confidence....you have to abandon your fears. Number one Fear of Rejection. You can tell yourself they dont know what they are missing and all that ego protecting lies but much better is to just dont give a f@ck.

 

But if I really don't give a f@ck then why am I talking to them?

[DanielMadr]

But if I really don't give a f@ck then why am I talking to them?

 

funny.

 

You dont give a f@ck about the outcome. You let it flow. She is interested... good. She is not interested...fine. When you want to pull some chic you have to tough. You wouldnt believe how tough you have to be. All the sensitive ones get eaten. You are not a child anymore.

[uniqueone]

Man not being social creature like women are and basically taking all rejection risks on yourself, it is something you have to work on pretty hard. But dont worry, that's why you have your balls for. It gives you plenty of testosteron which keeps you in emotional shade (you wont cry your tears off with self pitty).

 

 

 

Yep...we women just come out of the womb introducing ourselves to the whole operating room staff........yeeeah.......

 

Where do you get this information from? I don't think you have any idea of how it is for women.

And testosterone doesn't keep your emotions from being expressed.....social conditioning does.

[uniqueone]

Just a question that's been burning me up.

 

How does one gain real confidence in one's dating skills when even the most basic of matters (such as getting a response to a hi, or having an approach be viewed as something enjoyable rather than irritating) are so ridiculously low-percentage that any positive outcome can be chalked up primarily to luck?

 

To gain confidence in dating, you first have to obtain confidence outside of dating. When you have a strong core then you aren't as affected by someone not replying when you say "hi". You're then able to see it as something wrong with them, instead of yourself. You're able to see it from a different perspective.

 

Don't expect this to happen overnight though, but don't put it off either. It's taken me a LOT of time to not give a damn what people think (most of the time anyway). The sooner you do it, the better.

 

Once you do this, then the world of dating won't seem quite as threatening.

[DanielMadr]

Yep...we women just come out of the womb introducing ourselves to the whole operating room staff........yeeeah.......

 

Where do you get this information from? I don't think you have any idea of how it is for women.

And testosterone doesn't keep your emotions from being expressed.....social conditioning does.

 

Actually it is scientificaly proven. They made some experiments with women who undergone testosterone treatment (sex change). They experienced incresed stamina, faster growth of muscle mass and they were no more able to precisely identify their feelings. They just knew they feel bad or good but the slight nuances were closed to them.

 

So if you dont know what exactly you feel how can you express it? Expressing emotions is Magic Formula of 2nd millenium. It is not a Magic, it is rude to make other people your emotional tampon and it is not desired trait in men. Social conditioning is right. Expressing emotions takes you no where and it is dangerous. Believe me in the mens world it is dangerous. Love your wife, love your kids, dont be afraid to show that. Thats it. In other circumstances be hard as f@ck. If you are insecure, self-pittying, emotional wreck of a man and it makes you feel better....express your emotions all you want.

[Lights]

It sounds like you're not talking about dating skills but more of random social encounters? Some people are freaked out by being approached at random. Don't make it so much about you when it's likely more about the environment. I know when I walk the streets of the city people aren't exactly seeking social interaction... that's just the way it is. Even in the nicest (people-wise) city I've ever been in.

I suppose. I guess in my case they're often one and the same then. True, I do live in an environment that is brutally cold as far as socializing goes.

 

Do you get the same reaction when you are in natural social situations? Are you a man or woman?

Well, it's kind of strange because where I'm based there aren't any true "natural" social situations wherein people specifically are looking to find someone to date. Thus there's always some degree of random-approach-ishness involved.

 

I'm a man.

 

By ignoring the "percentages" and learning to enjoy social interactions. You're going to have a tough time interacting with people unless you learn to value it. It's not a task, and it's not an investment - it's part of being human. Learn to see yourself in others and you'll be home free.

 

Forgive me if I am stating something stupid or obvious or both, but I value things that are valuable. What I'm running into isn't worth valuing.

 

I'd have to disagree about it being part of being human. My brand of existence in the human condition does not lend itself to the degree of masochism required to permit finding all forms of social interactions inherently enjoyable when the vast majority of such interactions available to me are just plain more troublesome and painful than they're worth.

 

approach random people with the sole purpose of not giving a ****, or taken to even more extreme, of purposefully getting rejected. it'll help you build confidence, and give you something to laugh about afterwards.

Why would I go out of my way to deal with anyone if I didn't give a ****? There are many other things in my life I could be doing.

 

Think the key is probably just to enjoy the encounter and not think of it in terms of 'outcomes'. Genuine interest in another person always shines through whereas someone desperate for a romantic 'outcome' can be a bit off putting - particularly if the approach is totally random and uninvited.

 

I suppose, but, as I explained to Jcster, most such encounters or lacks thereof just plain aren't enjoyable. What kind of person finds being utterly ignored or being chronically viewed more often than not as an irritation as being enjoyable?

 

The percentage of people who are not irritated by random social encourners should not be "ridiculously low." Either you are mis-reading their reactions, or there is something threatening or bothersome in your approach.

If this is the case, how would I find out what is going on?

 

I wouldn't appraoch anyone with the intention of getting rejections, but try starting random conversations with people on things in the environment - the weather, stores in the area, the dog she's walking or the book she's reading (the words on her t-shirt are probably NOT a good topic). Do this with no expectation of getting a phone number or taking it any farther. Do this regardless of whether she's wearing a ring.

This I already do, provided I'm feeling sociable enough, am moving sufficiently slowly, and have the time to do so. I've done it more times than I can count.

 

Street and bar? Yeah it would be difficult. I say get your friends together an plan to have a house party. Invite lots of girls (if you don't know many, get your friends girlfriends to invite their friends). Conversation is usually pretty easy at parties because that's basically what parties are all about. Dinner parties are even better for meeting people, but perhaps more intimidating and perhaps not part of your current lifestyle.

Well, I don't do bars anymore. Stopped doing that a long while ago. I hate nightlife. More just wherever I happen to be where a potential woman of interest passes by or is passed by.

 

I'll see what I might be able to arrange.

 

How to gain confidence in oneself:

 

You have to be honest and realistic about/to yourself. Next you have to accept that these are your attributes and target the negatives that you're unwilling to accept about yourself. Self-denial will never gain you true confidence.

 

Also, you have to not care what people think of you and do what feels right for you as a person, so you can keep your self-respect. The best relationships (romantic/friendly/familial) are when two people compromise and also learn to accept some of each other's foibles or eccentricities. Respect per se.

I'm not really sure I understand most of your advice.

 

Also, regarding not caring what people think of me; although I like an independent spirit and like the kind of people who have such as well, other people's opinions ultimately do matter. If other people don't think I'm worth meeting, I remain involuntarily dateless.

 

To gain confidence in dating, you first have to obtain confidence outside of dating. When you have a strong core then you aren't as affected by someone not replying when you say "hi". You're then able to see it as something wrong with them, instead of yourself. You're able to see it from a different perspective.

Damn, I should have viewed it this way to begin with. Although I do attribute the nonresponse even to a hi as at least partly something wrong with them, there still remained that doubt which obviously has eaten away at whatever confidence I could have had.

 

Don't expect this to happen overnight though, but don't put it off either. It's taken me a LOT of time to not give a damn what people think (most of the time anyway). The sooner you do it, the better.

 

Once you do this, then the world of dating won't seem quite as threatening.

Well, as I wrote to Trialbyfire, what good is not giving a damn what other people think when being thought of by others as dateable is a requirement?

[jcster]

I'd have to disagree about it being part of being human. My brand of existence in the human condition does not lend itself to the degree of masochism required to permit finding all forms of social interactions inherently enjoyable when the vast majority of such interactions available to me are just plain more troublesome and painful than they're worth.

 

It's kind of a variation on an old saying, but you have to like people to have them like you in return. You generally get what you expect in this life. If you expect rejection, and feel you have to be a masochist to enjoy simple social interaction, then you don't need advice, you need an attitude adjustment.

 

Try this simple exercise. Write down everything that you can think of that you are grateful for. Carry the list with you, and every time that you start having negative thoughts -bring out that piece of paper. Somewhere during the course of the day, say "hi" to a stranger, and smile. I will bet they smile back. Your interior attitude is far more obvious than you might think. If you improve your inner dialog, you will improve the outer. And no, I'm not a bleeding heart pollyanna - I've had to learn to do it myself, and it works.