Update..! Hello everyone.

[Hard2Think]

Hello everyone! It's been a year and two weeks (or so) since my D-Day on July 31st of last year. You have all been so helpful during the rough times that I thought it's time give you all an update. Didn't mean to step on dazed .. looks like we had the same idea at about the same time!

 

Our little rollercoaster car has never stopped at the station. Not yet. Sure the dips and climbs are small and less frequent than they used to be, but I'm still riding. And I'm not too sure it ever will stop. I never did see OW again nor did I ever even have another OW in my sights since. That's the farthest thing from my mind at this point.

 

I can't say I blame her, but my wife is still angry at me and mistrustful at times. I suspect there will always be an undercurrent, a background noise of resentment that I'll have to deal with from here on in. I'm beginning to realize that I'll always have a foot in the doghouse no matter how much time goes by and no matter what I do or say.

 

She did threaten divorce a few months ago (again) and seemed serious enough to where I was not only ready, but I was actually looking forward to it. I no longer cared anymore and I really just wanted to be left alone. When she sensed that, then I she did a 180 and wanted to work on our marriage again. But that felt weak to me and I distrust her motives for staying with me. I suspect it has more to do with the lifestyle than with her love for me. The "work" consisted of her not yelling at me for a few days.

 

During a talk we were having a few months ago, she admitted that she wasn't sure she loved me or not for a certain time in the past. This period of time happens to be well before the A and well into it. That, of course, explained many things. So I asked her to explain to me then why she gave a sh*t about the A if she didn't love me. She says that she realized after D-Day that she did love me (maybe in the same way I did at the time). That being said, she never told me her feelings at the time. Instead, she chose to let me work overtime to buy her a new kitchen, a new car, and a ski vacation. I wish she had said something then. But I don't dwell on that.

 

Unfortunately, we've really gotten nothing resolved from issues that started 9 or 10 years ago. Our sex life is back to the olden days of once every 2 or 3 weeks for a total of 5 minutes each time. For all I know, she's maybe back in her "I'm not sure I love him" stage again. If that turns out to be the vibe I get, I will not stay with her. At this point, I don't have the energy not the will to keep struggling with this. I'm perpectually in a ready to bail out mode in anticipation of our next major conflict. Sometimes I think I'm wasting what's left of my youth with this and I'm not even so sure that staying for the kids is such a great idea anymore.

 

Maybe I messed things up beyond repair. Maybe things were already messed up before, I don't know. All I know is that right now, I'm on an out of town project on another coast. Although I'll be coming home every 10 days, this project will last 6 weeks. This will be the first time that I've been away for this long from her. I miss the kids terribly, but I don't miss her. I don't miss the tension in the house. I don't miss her demands on me all the time. And I don't miss the spontaneous sex, not the occasional backrubs .. because there never was any. I actually am enjoying being away from her.

 

That's the update. I know it's not a happy one, but there it is.

[herenow]

Have you told your wife how you feel? If you promised to be honest with her and you expect her to regain trust in you, she is the one you should be telling this to.

[Hard2Think]

Have you told your wife how you feel? If you promised to be honest with her and you expect her to regain trust in you, she is the one you should be telling this to.

Yes, but not in so much detail. It's only going to make her feel bad, promise to do better, and then feel guilty that she didn't. I see no point. She and I have been though that conversation already way too many times.

[herenow]

Yes, but not in so much detail. It's only going to make her feel bad, promise to do better, and then feel guilty that she didn't. I see no point. She and I have been though that conversation already way too many times.

 

She needs to hear what you are saying. I mean really hear and understand it. She is not the only one that needs to do better. You need to be a team. Believe it or not, it can take years for a BW to feel safe again.

 

Question is, are you just going through the motions, or are you really remorseful about what you did? Do you really want this marriage to work? You seem to be blaming your wife for the breakdown in your marriage. I'm not talking about your affair, I talking about your communication (or lack of it). There will be no improvement until you both face the problems and work together to resolve them. If that is really what you want. If not, you owe her the truth.

[whichwayisup]

This will be the first time that I've been away for this long from her. I miss the kids terribly, but I don't miss her. I don't miss the tension in the house. I don't miss her demands on me all the time. And I don't miss the spontaneous sex, not the occasional backrubs .. because there never was any. I actually am enjoying being away from her.

 

That's the update. I know it's not a happy one, but there it is.

 

Welcome back and good to see an update from you, even if it isn't great news....

 

Maybe it's time to have a trial separation. Make it as painless and easy as possible, for the kids sake...I just say this because I'm sure the kids feel the stress and tension in the house as well - And EVERYONE might be better off this way. I usually don't advocate or push anyone into leaving their spouse, but fact is, you don't miss her, you are happier without her. That H2T, says alot...

 

Anyway, it might be something to talk about with your wife. Prolonging it is only going to hurt more later, not only for both of you, but for your kids.

 

OR - Write her a letter and tell her exactly what you said here and BE HONEST. Sit beside her and let her read it, then talk about it or ask her to write you a note back.

 

If she gets hurt by what you say and how you feel, she'll have to deal with it. Sticking the head in the sand and playing along to keep the peace is not living, and it's not healthy for anyone...It's too easy to slip back into 'how things were' before the A...If she isn't willing to meet you half way, then how long can you stay happy?

[Mz. Pixie]

Welcome back and good to see an update from you, even if it isn't great news....

 

Maybe it's time to have a trial separation. Make it as painless and easy as possible, for the kids sake...I just say this because I'm sure the kids feel the stress and tension in the house as well - And EVERYONE might be better off this way. I usually don't advocate or push anyone into leaving their spouse, but fact is, you don't miss her, you are happier without her. That H2T, says alot...

 

 

I agree with WWIU, it's time to fish or cut bait as they say in the South.

[fisherfool]

I find myself saddened by your story. I also find myself surprised by the expectation that you seem to have in regards to the forgiveness from your wife. One years is a short time yet.

 

The lack however of sex and spontaneity is a possible things that will not be overcome. The others who have posted on this thread have intelligent things to say and should not be ignored. If you are not missing your wife in her absence and instead are finding relief it may be that there is too much history now to be able to correct. Maybe each of you has been hurt too much for going on.

 

I do not understand though that if your wife wanted to stay married to you because of lifestyle why she would now be wanting to divorce. Maybe you are not believing the truth. Maybe her love is of the hidden kind that is not easily seen even by herself. Have you discussed your difficulties with your minister or one who counsels couples in distress?

[Ladyjane14]

It's good to see you H2T ... even if your news isn't the best.

 

Initially, I was kind of wondering what would happen if you just flat-out told your wife that you don't miss her when she's gone... and using very plain language too.

 

But... I think maybe there's still one more rock to overturn before you bring things to a head with her. And that one more thing is this... Why do you suppose you're still so dependent on her mood for YOUR happiness?

 

I mean, the insecurity of occasional divorce threats is fairly obvious, but it really does kind of sound like "saber rattling", more chaff than wheat. She hasn't taken any kind of action on it really.

 

You know, in the first couple of chapters of Daniel Goleman's Social Intelligence, he describes how the brain interprets moods from others and tells us the mechanics of why those moods affect us. Just like laughter and smiles are infectious in a positive way... so too is the more negative stuff.

 

I think you can kind of 'take the teeth out of the monster' once you're aware of all that though. One needn't be an emotional sponge sopping up whatever emotional stimulus presents itself. All we have to do is... refuse delivery.

 

Anyway, think it over. And if you find that you're not in any way being overly sensitive to your wife's moods, then by all means... take off the kid gloves and hash it out.

[Hard2Think]

Nice to see you, too, LadyJane! Thanks for the input. Yeah, it's not that I depend on her mood for mine, I don't think. But it's not pleasant to come home to someone who is often in a bad mood because then I have to go in avoidance mode rather than relaxing. And when the anger is towards me specifically, then it's pretty hard to avoid.

 

This is just the same ole pre-A stuff, I guess. The MC did warn me this probably would happen.

[Ladyjane14]

....it's not pleasant to come home to someone who is often in a bad mood because then I have to go in avoidance mode rather than relaxing. And when the anger is towards me specifically, then it's pretty hard to avoid.

 

Why are you avoiding the conflict though?

Hell, if she's got something to say... let her say it. That way, at least you get to respond to something specific rather than tiptoe around the place wondering what's stuck in her craw.

 

Are you still having trouble forgiving yourself do you think? Because sometimes it's hard to accept forgiveness from someone else when you haven't yet accepted it from yourself. So, you end up walking around feeling really guilty and believing somehow that you don't have a right to complain when you're treated unfairly.

 

Next time she's giving you the old stink-eye, how 'bout you walk right up to her and ask what's wrong. If she says 'nothing'... then hey, refuse delivery on absorbing her bad mood. Take a nap. Play with the kids. Let her work out her own sh*t until she manages to crank open her mouth and give you something REAL to work with.

 

And... if your sex life has tanked again, make sure you're addressing that. Conflict avoidance has been a tough challenge for you all along, H2T. But sometimes you just gotta pull your waders on and climb on in, 'cause if you change nothing... then nothing changes.

[Mz. Pixie]

Conflict avoidance has been a tough challenge for you all along, H2T. But sometimes you just gotta pull your waders on and climb on in, 'cause if you change nothing... then nothing changes.

 

This is so true. Do you still want to be doing the same thing and talking about the same thing 5 years from now??

[Hard2Think]

You both make excellent points (as usual!). I don't know that I've been avoiding conflict as much anymore as maybe I am avoiding what I see as unnecessary conflict. That's just my own perspective which may be wrong ..

 

I've had "the talk" with her many times before the A, and then again after the A (once it was safe to do so). The results are inevitably the same. She sees that we need that we need to change things in our marriage, I'll do my part, and she'll do hers .. for a few days.

 

I don't think she's mean or deliberately trying to hurt me .. I just think that she's gotten to the point to where she can't seem to change. Or at least she doesn't want to do so. So the end result I think is that she feels guilty, I feel guilty, and we have yet another crack in our marriage.

 

A while back I did blow up after she started on a rampage at me about something inane and undeserved, and she did stop that behavior since. I know she seethes at things now, get moody, but won't blow up at me anymore.

 

The sexual part is a little trickier, I think. That I cannot force. Even if I caused another conflict to get her to see my POV (again), I think it's alot to ask that she make herself feel differently. I think she doesn't like sex or maybe she doesn't like it with me. I don't think there is a way for her to think herself into it. I guess I think that either you feel passion or you don't.

 

So that's why I think that I'll never have with my wife what I've wanted from the beginning. A lover. If I want a lover, I'm simply going to have to leave her and take my chances out there.

 

I'm coming home tonight and I think I'll have to really lay it on the line this weekend. I won't threaten her with anything .. I think she'll know where this is going to lead.

[NoIDidn't]

Hi there H2T

 

I agree with WWIU. Its a lot more convincing to us female types if you put your money where your mouth is WITHOUT already having a soft place to land (as in OW) when you do.

 

Maybe a separation is in order. Maybe then you guys can talk without all that interference.

 

I know you didn't say so in your update, but I think your W's friends are in her ear too much. If she keeps going through these moods of love-hate, it may be that she's telling them too much and not working with you enough.

 

You both have a conflict avoidance stance. Whether you see it as unnecessary or not, you are still avoiding conflict. Which is a bad idea in this case.

 

Hope you come back more often, though. Its nice having a man's view around here, too. Even the WS view is welcome.

 

Nice seeing you.

[Hard2Think]

So I got back last Thursday and that night, she put me through the wringer just like if it were 2 weeks post-d-day. We had it out and I challenged her to come up with just one thing she has ever done just for me.

 

"Well I make you dinner", she says

 

I reminded her that she only did that for everybody as well, not just for me, which is fine, but not what I was talking about. Remember that I do many small things for her that probably most couples do on a regular basis. I make her post-workout breakfasts just for her and just how she likes it, I make her expresso as she gets ready for her early morning, I go to some pretty lousy musicals (which I hate) just because I know she likes them.

 

Sadly she could come up with nothing. So she says, "I just realized that I'm probably not the one for you. I love you, but I'll never be what you want me to be."

 

This of course led to the "let's split up" talk again and so I said OK. That conversation has gotten so old already. As usual, the next day she retracted everything and wanted us to work out.

 

From Friday until Sunday, everything was actually pretty good. She was very nice, kept telling me how much she loves me and how she missed me while I was gone, etc.

 

So now I'm back out of town, and she calls me furious because she found the card from a divorce attorney I saw 4 years ago (well before the A) and some notes I took. I had told her that at the time I had been seriously considering divorce, but I never told her I actually saw a lawyer. So she spent half and hour yelling at me.

 

I did tell her that things were bad then and that's why I had wanted the divorce or at least I was considering it. I reminded her that I had already told her about it .. but stiil. She's back to angry mode and I'm supposed to be back in the doghouse.

 

I don't know if I can take this anymore. I don't even have the energy for it. I don't even want to invest myself in her anymore because sooner ot later, she'll be wanting me out of the house again or whatever.

[NoIDidn't]

Sorry H2T. I hate to speak about people that aren't around to defend themselves, so I won't say anything about my perceptions of your W beyond she sounds like she is afraid to be alone.

 

I, too, like you are the kind of person to stick something out hoping for the best all the way, and eventually accepting that this is just the way things are - until I've had enough.

 

You've already seen a Divorce Attorney before. I looked it up on the internet a time or two, but it scared me too much (just being honest with you).

 

If seeing the old info set her off, imagine how she'll react to seeing new, current info from an attorney.

 

Sorry man.

 

I had to "woman up" to my short-comings with my H as well. But I could list several things that I did just for him and his enjoyment. But still, what he wanted and what I did were not the same. I had to make a decision on trying out what he wanted versus what I was comfortable giving. None of this was sexual, mind you. So I definitely understand what you are saying to her.

 

Have you done any individual therapy? It helped me immensely. It was seeing how IC helped me that led my husband to be willing to try MC (again) as I had enough bad experiences with therapists too. If nothing else, it could help you *close* this chapter in a healthy way.

 

Good luck. Hope you are enjoying your time away at least.

[whichwayisup]

Sadly she could come up with nothing. So she says, "I just realized that I'm probably not the one for you. I love you, but I'll never be what you want me to be."

 

This is very honest. Sad, but honest and the fact now "it's" out there, it cannot be taken back.

 

It's possible that whatever love is left between you two isn't going to be enough glue to keep you together. You seem to jump through hoops for her and it's never enough, never really noticed half the time, or it's taken advantage of. It's like she's numb, on auto pilot...What's sadder is, she's been IN that mode for a long long time, well before your A. The A woke her up, made her FEEL! Yes, it was devastating, awful, painful for her, but atleast she felt SOME kind of emotion. It just seems now she can't gather any emotion for you unless it's related to the A, something negative, or just recently, stumbling upon the D papers from 4 years ago. I wish she could turn that into LOVE and TRY her best to fix the marriage, go to counselling with you....Not only for her sake, for your sake, but for the kids - GIVE IT HER BEST. Don't think she's really tried, and that's because she's scared. Scared of success and scared of failure. Success means trusting you 100%, taking the chance she won't feel that pain again...Failure is, moving on without you, being alone, not having ALL of you together under one roof.

 

Definately get some one on one counselling as NID has suggested.

[bestadvisor]

So I got back last Thursday and that night, she put me through the wringer just like if it were 2 weeks post-d-day.

 

Do you think that if you hadn't cheated, based on your effort for the past XX months, you would have gotten much better result than you have?

[bestadvisor]

I don't miss her demands on me all the time.

 

 

What are her demands on you?

[Flyin in Clouds]

... I'm beginning to realize that I'll always have a foot in the doghouse no matter how much time goes by and no matter what I do or say.

And you expected otherwise? Would you forgiver her if she had an affair and you had remained faithful? Would her having a little fling let you out of the doghouse?

 

She did threaten divorce a few months ago (again) and seemed serious enough to where I was not only ready, but I was actually looking forward to it. I no longer cared anymore and I really just wanted to be left alone. When she sensed that, then I she did a 180 and wanted to work on our marriage again.

Ah. ever the manipulator.

 

But that felt weak to me and I distrust her motives for staying with me. I suspect it has more to do with the lifestyle than with her love for me. The "work" consisted of her not yelling at me for a few days.

So how much longer are you going to go on tormenting this woman? And yourself?

 

During a talk we were having a few months ago, she admitted that she wasn't sure she loved me or not for a certain time in the past. This period of time happens to be well before the A and well into it. That, of course, explained many things. So I asked her to explain to me then why she gave a sh*t about the A if she didn't love me.

So your concern as why she was upset about the A, but not why she didn't love you. I think I can see why she didn't love you.

 

Maybe I messed things up beyond repair.

What would be your first clue?

 

I think she doesn't like sex or maybe she doesn't like it with me.

insightful. But if she found someone that really loved her she might like making love with them. So what is it with you? Just getting your rocks off or hers?

 

and she calls me furious because she found the card from a divorce attorney I saw 4 years ago (well before the A) and some notes I took. I had told her that at the time I had been seriously considering divorce, but I never told her I actually saw a lawyer. So she spent half and hour yelling at me.

So it's not in your nature to be open and honest in a relationship. You hide things. So what do you expect when they are discovered?

 

You seem to jump through hoops for her and it's never enough,

What hoops does H2T jump through. Sorry I haven't seen any. All I see is "she still doesn't want to have sex with me". Why would she?

 

she never told me her feelings at the time. Instead, she chose to let me work overtime to buy her a new kitchen, a new car, and a ski vacation.

Ah, the sure fire way to a woman's heart. Try diamonds.

 

It seems to me that it is still all about you H2T. What you need, not what she needs or wants.

 

What do you think your wife needs to be happy? A new kitchen?

What does loving her mean?

[cj1988]

Hello, I am sorry you are going through all this, atleast you were man enough to admit it. I am going through hard times as well and I am very sweet to my H although I believe he has had an affair. I love him very much and have so many questions I am not allowed to ask, because he has denied it all. So, if she really loves you she will have to put out and find a way to get past it and never bring it up again. It is so hard to do and I know for a fact. Sometimes I believe if there has been too much damage it cannot be repaired no matter how much you love them and want UNLESS both want it just as much......it takes 2 or it will never be one....good luck baby, do not give up, I have not yet

[Scrivdog]

You got it backwards, toots. She didn't put out - he got it elsewhere. It's the way it goes. Simple as that.

 

You let your man leave the house horny every day and I guarantee there a hot woman at the office willing to pick up the slack and leave you sputtering and whining on a forum like this within six months.

 

Sorry, I have no sympathy for his wife. None.

 

And you expected otherwise? Would you forgiver her if she had an affair and you had remained faithful? Would her having a little fling let you out of the doghouse?

 

Ah. ever the manipulator.

 

So how much longer are you going to go on tormenting this woman? And yourself?

 

So your concern as why she was upset about the A, but not why she didn't love you. I think I can see why she didn't love you.

 

What would be your first clue?

 

insightful. But if she found someone that really loved her she might like making love with them. So what is it with you? Just getting your rocks off or hers?

 

So it's not in your nature to be open and honest in a relationship. You hide things. So what do you expect when they are discovered?

 

What hoops does H2T jump through. Sorry I haven't seen any. All I see is "she still doesn't want to have sex with me". Why would she?

 

Ah, the sure fire way to a woman's heart. Try diamonds.

 

It seems to me that it is still all about you H2T. What you need, not what she needs or wants.

 

What do you think your wife needs to be happy? A new kitchen?

What does loving her mean?

[Mz. Pixie]

You got it backwards, toots. She didn't put out - he got it elsewhere. It's the way it goes. Simple as that.

 

You let your man leave the house horny every day and I guarantee there a hot woman at the office willing to pick up the slack and leave you sputtering and whining on a forum like this within six months.

 

Sorry, I have no sympathy for his wife. None.

 

Me either really. Unless you've read H2's previous thread then you cannot possibly understand what he's been through with this woman.

 

He's put her on a pedestal for years and even now though she continues to treat him like crap and refuse to try to fix their marriage he continues to stay with her.

 

It was his choice 100 percent to cheat and it was wrong. He owns that and I believe he's truly sorry and that he's done everything in his power to work on his marriage to make it better since that point. She is not receptive.

 

IMO, she's spoiled and hooked on the lifestyle that he provides her- MONEY and that is why she won't shXt or get off the pot about the divorce.

[Scrivdog]

The infamous OW doesn't steal the MM by flashing her tits nor spreading her legs at work. She does it by actually being nice to the guy - something he probably hasn't experienced at home in ages.

 

It really doesn't take to much effort to keep you man. But if you're too damn lazy to do at least the bare minimum, then let him have his affair and keep your mouth shut. At least he's supporting you anyway.

[bish]

Our little rollercoaster car has never stopped at the station. Not yet. Sure the dips and climbs are small and less frequent than they used to be, but I'm still riding. And I'm not too sure it ever will stop. I never did see OW again nor did I ever even have another OW in my sights since. That's the farthest thing from my mind at this point.

 

I can't say I blame her, but my wife is still angry at me and mistrustful at times. I suspect there will always be an undercurrent, a background noise of resentment that I'll have to deal with from here on in. I'm beginning to realize that I'll always have a foot in the doghouse no matter how much time goes by and no matter what I do or say.

 

You suspect correctly. And you can't blame her for it. And she will NEVER trust you 100% again. And again, you can't blame her for it.

 

Maybe I messed things up beyond repair. Maybe things were already messed up before, I don't know.

 

In my experience, once you find a spouse cheated, as far as I'm concerned, its better to get a divorce. that person is no longer the same person you married...or at least they thought not.

 

I understand the feelings of wanting to hold on for the kids...wanting to work on the marriage so they weren't uprooted from their home...but in the end, there was no way I could stay with a cheater.

 

 

All I know is that right now, I'm on an out of town project on another coast. Although I'll be coming home every 10 days, this project will last 6 weeks. This will be the first time that I've been away for this long from her. I miss the kids terribly, but I don't miss her.

 

Thats all that needs to be said right there. I'd say divorce her so she can move on with her life and find someone else.

[Mz. Pixie]

Thats all that needs to be said right there. I'd say divorce her so she can move on with her life and find someone else.

 

I say they should divorce so he can move on with his life and find someone who is not as cold and money hungry.

 

Scriv is right. Men are not that complicated actually. It would take very little for H2T to be more satisfied with his marriage.