madgun68 Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 I don't know. I read the initial post in this thread and things just don't seem right, although I'm not sure what it is.. entirely. Just some things I don't buy. If your husband is the wonderful guy you say he is, then why are you having to give up yourself to make him happy and comfortable? Why does his happiness come at the expense of yours? If you feel you need counseling, a husband should be supportive of this. It's one thing if he were to ask questions and stop if you don't wish to speak about it, but something entirely different if he's grilling you to the point where you stop going because of it. What's he afraid of? (Also have to wonder about the blog.. If it were harmless, why does it bother him?) Not sure I buy the bit about him being gone for just 3 days and coming back a changed man either. Not saying it isn't possible, but most people (myself included) need much more time just to recognise the changes they need to make, not to mention quite a bit of time constantly being vigilant that we work towards making those changes permanent, and not reverting back to the way we were. Don't get me wrong, maybe your husband is the wonderful catch you say he is.. I just don't get that impression from the other things you've written.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Emotionally yours-- We all make mistakes and have lapses of good judgment, so you need to "forgive" yourself if your intention is to continue your marriage. I find it ironic that you could forgive him if he had an affair but not yourself. Yes it is ironic... but I think he is a better person than I am and am willing to give him more slack. I think my intention is to stay with him, but we will have a LOT of work to do. He may be a better person than I, but we need to work on some compatibility issues. He does need to lighten up a bit.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Not sure I buy the bit about him being gone for just 3 days and coming back a changed man either. Not saying it isn't possible, but most people (myself included) need much more time just to recognise the changes they need to make, not to mention quite a bit of time constantly being vigilant that we work towards making those changes permanent, and not reverting back to the way we were. What did he change that made things so much better? What did you tell him he needed to change? I am curious about this as well?
Kasan Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Madgun 69-- The reason there seems to be some confusion is we hijacked ookla_2's thread. Sorry ookla!!!!
Author ookla_2 Posted August 15, 2007 Author Posted August 15, 2007 Hijack away... I'm new to all of this and just reading everyone's posts is really helpful. To answer the question of how he came back changed...we had gotten to the point where we hardly even noticed each other anymore. This is common, I know, but I tried numerous times to talk to him about it, only to end up arguing with him, so I just quit trying, and quit caring if he had any time to spend with the family or not. When we came close to splitting (and I was not the only one caught doing something wrong - and I have to keep reminding myself of that, because I seem to be fine with forgiving him but not with forgiving myself), he made some drastic changes with his job, things that I had been begging him to do for years prior to everything happening. He cut back on his time away from the family, he showered me with attention (too much, actually, I went from being invisible to being smothered), and he became VERY needy. Understandable, I know. He needs reassurance that I still love him and still want to be in the marriage. However, it gets tiring sometimes, especially when I'm not sure, to keep reassuring HIM and making sure that HE is feeling safe and secure. As far as whether or not he's a great guy - he is....and any issues we have had, as far as me giving things up or missing out on things that I wanted to do, I blame myself. Over the years I decided that it was easier to let go of things I wanted in order to avoid a fight. Would there necessarily have been a fight? Who knows, but I wanted to avoid it at all costs. I hate confrontation and will actually shrink away from having any kind of confrontation with him. (not in general - I can get my back up and stand my ground with just about anyone else - just not him) As far as the blog - it's completely innocent, it's a local group of people that we know, and it's just silly little stories my friends and I post, read, and comment on. He doesn't use the computer much, and still sees the internet as one giant online dating service, therefore I just didn't tell him that I was blogging. Stupid, I know, and I am going to show him the blog and see what comes from that. As my (former) counselor once told me "he's already proven he's not going anywhere - so why don't you feel like you can be open with him?" That's what I'm still trying to find out. And no, he's never been abusive (verbally, maybe, waaayyy back in the day, when we both were drinking too much, but that's been ages ago), so I'm not sure when I became so afraid of him, or afraid of hurting him. But I am.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Thanks ookla. I'm new too and the format is frustrating. I want to get in one big chat room and have instant feedback. I just keep on writing because I'm still in the mood to. H is reading and doesn't want to talk right now. I don't blame him if he's into a really good book. I have a very hard time opening up to him as well and don't want the confrontation that will follow. He gets "really" hurt and I hate it. If I opened this can of worms again, this time the kids would be old enough to really pick up on the vibes and nature of the fights. It took quite a while (years...not months) for him to forgive me when I told him I was afraid I didn't love him anymore. This is why I haven't gone back to counseling. I was supposed to see EA guy tomorrow, but canceled on him (I was so looking forward to it). We would have been alone though and that would only spell trouble. Plus, it was the first time I blatantly lied about where I was going. Usually I just twist the truth. The only thing now is that I did lie about where I was supposed to be and wonder if it will sound fishy if I say it got canceled. Tangled webs.... Back on topic... I do know what you mean about too much attention. My husband is "too" nice sometimes. He says I'm beautiful when I know that I look like crap and that gets on my nerves. It makes him seem needy. I want a dominant man... not a needy one. Also, I have not been attracted to him in quite some time. I never did feel passionately about him physically though. It's funny because I go and marry the one guy who I never had a full blown passionate crush phase with. How do I get back there if we were never there to begin with? Plus my only experiences with other men were all when I was under the age of 19. I was still a kid for god's sake...lol How old were you when you met H? You also are having physical attraction problems. Perhaps this is why you also looked to another man? To satisfy the lust part that we want so badly? Before my EA... I actually used to read and write trashy romance/fantasy type stories on sites to feed that side of me. Maybe you should try that. You said you did that type of blog where you write read/write stories. I actually stopped hiding it from my husband so maybe he would take a look and get some ideas. I know it is wrong... but I would fantasize about the stories to make it more interesting with H? It stopped working though when a "real" person moved into the picture. It didn't seem to do it for me anymore. Also, you never did say how old your kids are? This is what keeps me in the marriage. I am scared of them hating me and/or getting messed up from a divorce. Too many issues... custody... holidays... new significant others... the list goes on and on... Plus, I don't really like my husband's family and don't want them around my kids without me. I never did feel comfortable with them. Is it really the kids making you stay put or is it truly that you don't want to hurt H? For me its mostly the kids and then sometimes it hits me like a brick that I don't want to hurt H either. Then I feel bad again and mentally flog myself. Well... I'm going to bed now!! A good night's sleep certainly couldn't hurt anything.
Gunny376 Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Its like I told my XW when I was going through all this crap, "I love you enough, that I'd rather see you happy with someone else, than miserable with me!' "Whatever doesn't kills you? Makes you stronger!" And, I am stronger, smarter, wiser, for the experience. Today? It wouldn't be her decision, it would be mine! Today? My woman comes to me and tell me she's got doubts about us? She wouldn't be going ~ she'd be gone! The first hint! The first time! EA's ~ PA, you're nothing but a memory! From then on? Whatever life throws at you? That's your problem! Not mine! The days of my begging some gal to let me love her ~ put clothes on her back, a roof over her mouth, food in her mouth, a car seat under her azz? Are O-V-E-R! And I understand that it takes more than just providing the material things in lfe, that you've got to date your mate, "little things" mean a lot, and romance goes a long way! I understand that when both parties are working and when it comes to the chores that its whoever hits the back door first that get busy with the kids, the homework, the laundry, cooking, etc. But, damn ~ for some people your best is never going to be enough. Well you know what? This ain't "Dallas" you're not Sue Ellen, and I'm not J.R. so turn off the tv, and the lights, I've got to get up early tomorrow morning and go to work so we can pay the bills! Rant off!
Kasan Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Love is a choice Love is a decision Love is an action
Author ookla_2 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Posted August 16, 2007 Emotionally, I totally get where you are coming from. You were right to cancel plans with the EA though. However, that probably makes you feel more resentful and depressed when the time comes/came that you were supposed to meet with him. I get what you mean about the kids. Mine are 13 (boy) and 9 (girl), and they love their dad so much. I know they love me too, and would continue to love me, even if they were upset with me, but I truly did not believe that at the time that everything came to a head last year. I really thought I would lose them both forever. (It's really hard to think straight when you are in the middle of something like that) I stay because I genuinely like my husband. He makes me laugh - I make him laugh. We get each other. I can, and probably will, be married to him for the rest of my life. I just wish I could feel something romantic for him, and feel attraction to him, because I don't. I know, I know, those are the things that fade over time, but honestly, I never really felt that for him, just like you said about your H. To answer your question, we met when we were 20, so just like you, my prior experiences were SO long ago, and I was so young. Thanks for sharing/discussing with me. I'm too afraid to go to friends or family members for help with this, for fear of judgment/accusations. It is truly nice to know I'm not alone. It helps. I hope you are having a good day.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Hey Ookla... Yep, I'm a little bummed. But I feel so much less stressed out. I will continue to see this other guy regularly for a few months because of a commitment I made to an organization to volunteer, but I think I will be fine with it. I do truly think of him of a friend and if I direct it the right way I think we can remain friends. He really is not at all my type and we truly would be horrendous together...lol...I don't know what I'm thinking even if I was absolutely single. I think some chemicals in my body went haywire for me to form any sort of attachment (romantically or physically that is) to him. He is the exact type, however, that I am friends with. I will have to resolve this and still be able to be around him. Otherwise, I will have to give up a hobby that I am truly passionate about and don't won't to lose that in my life. The relationship with you H sounds SOOOOO much like the one I have with mine. He does make me laugh and we both are misfits. However, we both say that we are actually the only normal people left to justify ourselves. Maybe this really does have something to do with our ages and changes in the chemicals in our bodies. Or maybe it is the fact that I do love men...lol. Always have... always will... Flirting also runs in the family. I swear I came by it honestly. My Grandmother is absolutely shameless with the younger men. I think I'm just a dirty old woman in training. I do wish there was a way to exchange emails or something. I've never done this type of online communication before on a regular basis. I'd love to chat off-line. Such an audience here...lol I hope you are having a good day too! I think I actually am having a good day. Surprisingly enough.
Cobra_X30 Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Emotionally, I totally get where you are coming from. You were right to cancel plans with the EA though. However, that probably makes you feel more resentful and depressed when the time comes/came that you were supposed to meet with him. I get what you mean about the kids. Mine are 13 (boy) and 9 (girl), and they love their dad so much. I know they love me too, and would continue to love me, even if they were upset with me, but I truly did not believe that at the time that everything came to a head last year. I really thought I would lose them both forever. (It's really hard to think straight when you are in the middle of something like that) I stay because I genuinely like my husband. He makes me laugh - I make him laugh. We get each other. I can, and probably will, be married to him for the rest of my life. I just wish I could feel something romantic for him, and feel attraction to him, because I don't. I know, I know, those are the things that fade over time, but honestly, I never really felt that for him, just like you said about your H. To answer your question, we met when we were 20, so just like you, my prior experiences were SO long ago, and I was so young. Thanks for sharing/discussing with me. I'm too afraid to go to friends or family members for help with this, for fear of judgment/accusations. It is truly nice to know I'm not alone. It helps. I hope you are having a good day. Perhaps you may gain some from my perspective on this. My mom moved from EA to PA. My dad moved from living with us to living 20 miles away. I dont pretend to understand my Mom, in fact I dont really care. The situation hurt me more than you can ever imagine... I'd rather they just split up on even terms. Mr. EA turns out was the biggest jerk the world has ever produced... I guess guys usually arent that nice to kids that are not thiers biologically. Bottom line, I dont like my mom and we havnt spoken since I was 16. I'm know your situation is different... and I'm sure your kids are different too. Just please understand my point is that things dont always work out the way you expect... the grass is not always greener... ect. I know its been said before... but it just seems that you dont understand love. That romance, that attraction your lacking... that comes from within you! He cant make you feel that.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Love is a choice Love is a decision Love is an action You are right Kasan. Can you feel the love vibes coming off of me now? I am aiming them out towards hubby... I swear I'm trying. You saw the post. I canceled!! I was kind of curt too! Well not TOO curt. I will remain friends with him to a degree (we really do have to see each other sometimes). EA guy was feeling no "love vibes" from my direction, however. Thanks again... PS..ookla...I'm sending you some vibes to... Maybe it will inspire you too!
sumdude Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 I've been doing a lot of work trying to get through the emotional side of my separation and divorce. One of the things is realizing that whether or not I'm 'feeling' happy is truly up to me. Because it would be so easy to slide into a deep depression... I was in one for the last couple of years which was part of the reason my marriage fell apart. Finding out that often you can bring an emotion by an action. If you smile for a while for no reason at some point your mind catches up with your body and you feel happier... Maybe if you act as if you feel those special feelings you might find that at some point you will actually feel them too. The old "Fake it till you make it." adage. Break the routine .... you both say your 'love' your hubbies in at least some way ... What if you consciously take a month or two and do some suprising things for him and with him. Play pretend.... just pretend ... after a while you might find him responding in kind. If one person makes changes the other has to adjust. Next thing you know ...anything can happen. Nothing happens without action ... nothing grows without change. And at some point if you're just at wits end you have to let him know ... directly and in no uncertain terms .. that the feelings are slipping away. No sending 'signals' that you assume are obvious.. Look, us men do not have the womens codebook for obvious yet indirect communication. That's why you all sometimes think were so thickheaded. We're just not wired that way.
Cobra_X30 Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 I do wish there was a way to exchange emails or something. I've never done this type of online communication before on a regular basis. I'd love to chat off-line. Such an audience here...lol. Once you place enough posts you automatically get the ability to send and recieve PM's. I am not sure where the cut off is. Hey I wish you two the best!
Ladyjane14 Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Maybe if you act as if you feel those special feelings you might find that at some point you will actually feel them too. The old "Fake it till you make it." adage. Break the routine .... you both say your 'love' your hubbies in at least some way ... What if you consciously take a month or two and do some suprising things for him and with him. Play pretend.... just pretend ... after a while you might find him responding in kind. If one person makes changes the other has to adjust. Next thing you know ...anything can happen. Nothing happens without action ... nothing grows without change. Adding to what SD has said, a self-defeating "inner mantra" like "I've never felt any passion for my husband", will preclude any real and lasting change. Truth is largely in the eye of the beholder, a matter of perception. There's no way to know if your old mantra is the actual truth or a stray bit of self-hypnosis, because as long as it stands unchallenged, it defaults to "True" and cannot be overcome. You can NEVER feel passion for your husband as long as this thought resides in your head. You are finished before you've even begun. Get rid of old, out-dated stinking-thinking that no longer suits your goals or purpose. In order to evaluate your situation with 'new eyes', old assumptions must first be cast away.
Kasan Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 are the bane of our existence. Can't, hate, don't, never....are just words, but have the ability to change everything about us. Time to change the tapes in your heads ladies...time to re-direct the negatives into positive thoughts and actions. Positive thinking!!! Honestly..the kids know something is up and daddy knows on some level that mommy is "just not feeling it". How long are you going to make these men jump through hoops to make you happy? You have received some great advice on this forum. Check out some of the posts on this site. They are heartbreaking..... There is also a great website http://www.divorcebusting.com...it talks about the Walk Away Wife Syndrome and other stuff. Maybe worth a look. I am sure that you will find your way, but SD is right, you will have to make a decision one way or the other-sooner or later.
Author ookla_2 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Posted August 16, 2007 Thanks to everyone for the good advice. I'm sure it's hard for some, who see me as the "bad guy", because of situations that they have already been through, to give me input without getting angry with me...and I truly appreciate all of the empathy I feel from everyone. I am going to continue to try with my H...I'm making some changes in other areas of my life and trying to improve myself (or, rather, the way I view myself) and hopefully this will make me feel better about everything, including our relationship. I am also going to be more open and honest about my feelings and things that I want...and not be so afraid of fighting. Like my counselor told me, she worries more about the couples that never fight than the ones that do, because the only way a couple can never fight is if one person is constantly giving in and not expressing their needs. That would be me. And I'm not going to do that anymore.
EmotionallyYours Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Finding out that often you can bring an emotion by an action. If you smile for a while for no reason at some point your mind catches up with your body and you feel happier... Maybe if you act as if you feel those special feelings you might find that at some point you will actually feel them too. The old "Fake it till you make it." adage. Break the routine .... you both say your 'love' your hubbies in at least some way ... What if you consciously take a month or two and do some suprising things for him and with him. Play pretend.... just pretend ... after a while you might find him responding in kind. If one person makes changes the other has to adjust. Next thing you know ...anything can happen. Nothing happens without action ... nothing grows without change. And at some point if you're just at wits end you have to let him know ... directly and in no uncertain terms .. that the feelings are slipping away. No sending 'signals' that you assume are obvious.. Look, us men do not have the womens codebook for obvious yet indirect communication. That's why you all sometimes think were so thickheaded. We're just not wired that way. Thanks sumdude. I totally agree because I have come out of these types of feelings once before. This is my second EA actually. The first was just MUCH less intense and less dangerous. In fact... I really don't feel very much guilt about any of my actions. Anything I did wrong was just in my head (that I DO feel guilty about). I didn't really lie about anything. I worked with him so had plenty of time to be around him. I fixed it last time doing the positive thinking thing and slowly distancing myself from him emotionally. What is hard is that if H knew I felt like this... well at least to this extent... he would be so hurt. He probably would leave me. That is why I can't be honest. So what do I do? Post it all over the internet of course. This really does make me nervous. God I hope he doesn't have some way to check my web history after erasing all private data. Hey snoopers... you tell me... what's out there to spy? Am I in danger?
EmotionallyYours Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Thanks to everyone for the good advice. Yes, thanks! I think you guys really have stopped me from making a really big mistake. Without you reiterating what my conscious was already telling me, I think I would have caved in to my baser instincts. Oh and ookla... if you find a way to send private messages... please do. I'd love to keep in touch. Maybe we can be moral support for each other. I think I'm done with this thread and ready to move on for now.
Author ookla_2 Posted November 20, 2010 Author Posted November 20, 2010 Wow....more than three years have gone by! I stopped back in and revisited my old posts and I just cringe! I don't know if anyone is even still around whi would remember me, but I felt compelled to update just in case. Im doing this on my phone, with the crazy auto correct, so if something looks funny, please excuse it. So....I'm great! I'm absolutely great! I came out of my fog and realized what a selfish "b" I was being. And, it took a long time, but my H and I now have a more loving and open relationship than ever. I'm not going to say it was all easy, but its all been SO worth it! I discovered through our recovery of my EA that my H truly loves me. I just don't think i ever got that before. Neither one of us were ever very touchy feely kind of people, but that's changed somewhat. And I managed to develop an,attraction unlike I've ever had for this man. I can honestly say that I can and plan to be married to him until I die. One HUGE change in me is how protective I've become of our marriage. and I don't mean that in a jealous, watch what he's doing all the time way, I mean that I always try to think of how things i say it do when he's not around would affect him. i don't encourage friendships with the opposite sex. It's just not necessary. I mean, I get along with all of my co workers, male and female, but no friendship beyond getting along and being able to work together is a good idea. Even my FB friend are either women or family or my friends' husbands, who are also men that are friends of my husbands. He has complete access to my email, my FB, and my phone and although i think its been a long time since he's checked any of them, he knows he can at anytime. Theres nothing there that I wouldn't want him to see. So, I don't just want to update, but to give hope to anyone out there who may be in a similar situation. it can get better. You can get your marriage back on track. HOWEVER, you have to really want it, and not be afraid of the work involved. There will be bad days, days when you wonder if its all worth it. Only you can decide. i know it was more than worth it for me. I really want to thank everyone who helped me when I needed it most. Kasan was my rock. Lady Jane gave awesome advice. I was so happy Cobra was providing his insight. I still wonder about EY, whose story turned our SO differently than mine. And everyone else, with kind words or harsh criticisms, I needed it all. so thank you so much!!!
imagine Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 Hi Ookla, Thanks for the feedback. Success stories are good for those that are battling. I guess we all miss writers like Lady Jane and Kasan. I sure they would love to know how your story continues. Regards.
Woggle Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 I did not expect this ending but good for you for learning to appreciate him.
Kasan Posted November 21, 2010 Posted November 21, 2010 So, I don't just want to update, but to give hope to anyone out there who may be in a similar situation. it can get better. You can get your marriage back on track. HOWEVER, you have to really want it, and not be afraid of the work involved. There will be bad days, days when you wonder if its all worth it. Only you can decide. i know it was more than worth it for me. It's so very good to hear that you are well and that your marriage is thriving!:) If you don't mind me asking, how did you get your marriage back on track? Thanks for updating..........:)
Author ookla_2 Posted November 21, 2010 Author Posted November 21, 2010 I really didn't either, Woggle! But I am so grateful that it has turned out this way. Im not kidding myself, I know that reminders can and probably will occur from time to time. But we seem stronger and more equipped to handle them together. Kasan, there you are! I know we don't know each other IRL, but i have to say, you were a Godsend to me! Your advice and understanding without judgement was priceless and I can never thank you enough! I wish I could tell you exactly how we got here...I don't really know. I will have to say that my H deserves so much of the credit. he proved himself more loving and patient and understanding than I ever imagined him to be. I also got myself back into counseling, which opened my eyes in two ways: 1. I completely expected to go in and tell my story and have to counselor advise me to get out. surprise...that's not what they do. She opened my eyes to my faults...not just the EA, but the part I played in the deterioration of our relationship prior to it. 2. She encouraged me to get back on my anti-depressant. between her and my doctor, I have come to realize that I have a chemical imbalance. I really did not want to be on meds. it made me feel weak. but knowing that I'm doing it for the good of my family and my marriage, I feel good about it now. my doctor has told me that I am a person who will likely need the meds for the rest of my life so I have to be okay with it. And for awhile, I will admit, I did what someone said, "fake it till you make it". I had to look at that time period for what it was...a rut. a bad period of time in a very long relationship. I was finally able to forgive myself, and although I will carry that burden around for the rest of my life, i will no longer let it define me. I've learned from my horrible decisions and will not make them again. The best thing I know how to do is to offer my advice to others who are heading down that path, and its amazing how many of them I do come across. I do everything i can to discourage them from making bad choices and some have heeded my advice and some have not. I try to pay forward all the help I received here but people have to make their own decisions, as I am well aware.
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