What is a "catch"

[DanielMadr]

Wow, interesting. Really interesting. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

 

Something similiar but extremely interesting...Your-Over-Confidence-May-Be-Driving-The-Men-/-Women-Away-Pt.-1

[JackOfClubs]

Lots of generalities and absolutes flying around. Can't really lump all women into the bad decision maker category because they choose a guy you can't believe they would. It's just weird how love works. And you'll go crazy trying to figure out somebody else's criteria.

 

Right now I'm dating a girl who's been with a guy who has no job, doesn't support his kids (with her), and has physically and verbally abused her. Only when I show up and treat her the way I do does she realize that she can have a guy who doesn't do all those things.

 

Now, I'm paying for dates, gifts, and what-not. While this other guy had her love for basically free, doing nothing but being his a--hole self. Am I a little bitter that the bar is higher for me? Sure. But I've given up trying to figure out how love works. I've learned to accept what I can't change (namely the decision-making of others) and play the hand I'm dealt.

[StayClose]

Ive heard it many times on LoveShack, in the TV series 'Singles in New York' and I was mind reading it in real world a few times. It is basically "Princess Syndrome Disease".

 

This is a variation of the advice to take the attitude "it's her/his loss" when rejected. While this attitude may be better than beating oneself up after a rejection, when everyone of the opposite sex seems unable to appreciate your great qaulities, you have to again look at yoursself to figure out what's driving them away.

[StayClose]

Something similiar but extremely interesting...Your-Over-Confidence-May-Be-Driving-The-Men-/-Women-Away-Pt.-1

 

Oh brother.... All these women on LS who say "looks and money barely matter - it's mostly confidence" and now confidence is bad?????

[DanielMadr]

Lots of generalities and absolutes flying around. Can't really lump all women into the bad decision maker category because they choose a guy you can't believe they would. It's just weird how love works. And you'll go crazy trying to figure out somebody else's criteria.

 

Right now I'm dating a girl who's been with a guy who has no job, doesn't support his kids (with her), and has physically and verbally abused her. Only when I show up and treat her the way I do does she realize that she can have a guy who doesn't do all those things.

 

Now, I'm paying for dates, gifts, and what-not. While this other guy had her love for basically free, doing nothing but being his a--hole self. Am I a little bitter that the bar is higher for me? Sure. But I've given up trying to figure out how love works. I've learned to accept what I can't change (namely the decision-making of others) and play the hand I'm dealt.

 

Im sorry man, but I think you are heading to a big f@ck up. Love has to be for free or it is a prostitution. There is something rotten. And you have to be 100% sure she does love you before you give your life to someone like her.

[Cobra_X30]

Now, I'm paying for dates, gifts, and what-not. While this other guy had her love for basically free, doing nothing but being his a--hole self. Am I a little bitter that the bar is higher for me? Sure. But I've given up trying to figure out how love works. I've learned to accept what I can't change (namely the decision-making of others) and play the hand I'm dealt.

 

Nice to play the white knight, but watch yourself. Many will search out that abuse...

[kitty99b]

whatever happened to the "gentleman in question"? has PP abandoned his own thread for good?

[DanielMadr]

Nice to play the white knight, but watch yourself. Many will search out that abuse...

 

It's not White Knight anymore. It is called Captain Save A Ho these days.

[amber1]

From a woman's perspective, what makes a man a "catch"?

 

My situation - I am 30, in good physical shape, have a career, my own place and 2 cars. Not only that I work hard and am very motivated. I condsider myself to be slightly better than average looking.

 

It takes a lot of character to build yourself a career and to not have children outside of marriage, for example. I feel these are good traits that will carry over into oter areas of life.

 

So when did women start overlooking these things? While a career and a nice dwelling may not be everything, it's a hell of a good start. To me, it also shows strong character.

 

I am so frustrated of getting passed up for total losers. Women also seem to love jailbirds... UGGH

 

Help me break the evil cycle?

 

Or am I just I the oddball in a world of immorality?

 

For once it would be so nice to meet a woman with something to offer me other than drama.

 

Honestly, the things you mentioned are what I consider a good catch....you actually sound pretty perfect.

 

I agree about the character thing. I NEVER overlook it. This is because I have a little bit in the past and only bad has come from it.

 

I would never go for a jailbird and don't know many women who would. Where do you live where the women are going for these types? lol.

 

Edit: Of course the guy ***must treat me right*** and have a good personality too.

[JackOfClubs]

That's my biggest fear. Actually went through this once already and told the current girl that if that's what I see happening with her, then I'm gone. Unfortunately (for me), generosity is part of my character.

 

The point I was trying to make though was that I understand where PP is coming from. You think you have the whole package and don't even sell yourself as some arrogant SOB, but inexplicably girls still choose guys for reasons other than things such as values, how well (or not) they treat others, etc. Hate to say it's the "bad boy" thing. Sometimes there's just a comfort zone with certain types of guys and no matter what you can bring to the table, it's just not the right fit so to speak.

[blowingthetrout]

For once it would be so nice to meet a woman with something to offer me other than drama.

that leaves this drama queen out

[lino]

From a woman's perspective, what makes a man a "catch"?

 

A history of the cause of my question:

 

I consider myself a "catch" and while some women may agree, many, many do not. I see so many women with guys that have no career, no car, alcoholism, abondoned children, etc. They don't seem to care much as long as the guy is "attractive".

 

My situation - I am 30, in good physical shape, have a career, my own place and 2 cars. Not only that I work hard and am very motivated. I condsider myself to be slightly better than average looking.

 

Now I know material thing does not make the person; but where does character come into play here? I have posted similar items here before and the general response I get is that these things don't mean anything. I understand they ar enot everything, but I feel they are a huge part of who a person is.

 

I respect someone that has a good career and has made effort to not be divorced or have children outside of marriage. Do these things not speak volumes about someone's character?

 

It takes a lot of character to build yourself a career and to not have children outside of marriage, for example. I feel these are good traits that will carry over into oter areas of life.

 

So when did women start overlooking these things? While a career and a nice dwelling may not be everything, it's a hell of a good start. To me, it also shows strong character.

 

I am so frustrated of getting passed up for total losers. Women also seem to love jailbirds... UGGH

 

Help me break the evil cycle?

 

Or am I just I the oddball in a world of immorality?

 

hmmm I never saw this thread.

I feel for you as I see this happening too. You seem in a similar position to me except you seem to be someone with much more confidence in himself than me.

I know self confidence is what I lack but you're being accused of being overconfident? How does a guy know what is the right 'amount?'

 

For once it would be so nice to meet a woman with something to offer me other than drama.

 

tell me when you find one

[lindya]

From a woman's perspective, what makes a man a "catch"?

 

A history of the cause of my question:

 

I consider myself a "catch" and while some women may agree, many, many do not. I see so many women with guys that have no career, no car, alcoholism, abondoned children, etc. They don't seem to care much as long as the guy is "attractive".

 

My situation - I am 30, in good physical shape, have a career, my own place and 2 cars. Not only that I work hard and am very motivated. I condsider myself to be slightly better than average looking

 

On a very basic "mating game/survival of the fittest" level, these are very useful attributes. If you were living in a society where it wasn't the norm for women to work, and they were very reliant on men, you'd probably have a very wide range of options. Essentially, you're giving the message "I can support you, and I'm less likely than a lot of other men out there to leave you." Even in a society where women aren't wholly reliant on men, these are still messages that will interest a lot of women.

 

Does this mean you're a catch? All other things being equal, it would indicate that you may well be. Most intelligent, potentially interested women would want to examine the situation on a deeper level than you've offered here. You've talked about character, and you've given examples of you being of good character. A lot of those examples seem to relate more to things you haven't done, however, than to things you have done.

 

You haven't got married, and therefore you haven't exposed yourself to all the emotional and financial risks that marriage entails. You condemned Touche for having been through a divorce. Another person might say "Touche took the risk of getting married in the first place. It didn't work out. There are no guarantees that any marriage works out - but evidently she allowed herself to care enough about her first husband to take that risk of it not working out." She's probably learned some incredibly important lessons, and gained a lot of valuable insight, from having gone through a situation where it didn't work out.

 

Similarly, you talked about people with bad credit records. The other side of it is that some of the wealthiest entrepreneurs out their are people who failed with the first few ventures they got involved with. Possibly even went through bankruptcy at some stage. Took risks, and made mistakes that they learned from.

 

So let's say a woman has a choice between three men:

 

1. You

2. Mr X who has a terrible credit history, 2 divorces under his belt and has fathered several children to a variety of women

3. Mr Y who has been divorced once, has been bankrupt once - but who went through extensive counselling to figure out why his marriage didn't work out, and who also got through that period of financial difficulty and went on to eventually set up a successful business.

 

You're Mr Stability. A good catch for many women, but the drawback might be that you haven't exposed yourself to the kind of situations that might leave other people with exceptional character and insight (I say "might" because I simply don't have enough information to do anything other than guess).

 

Mr X sounds like a disaster. He's made mistakes in his life, and there's nothing to indicate he isn't going to just keep making more as time marches on.

 

Mr Y. On paper, he might meet your criteria for a "loser". He's been bankrupt and he's been divorced. Those things happened because he's a risk taker - and risk takers do sometimes lose. On the other hand, risk-takers sometimes win big. Mr Y is perhaps winning big time because of the wisdom he's taken from his mistakes. So he's offering a level of success and wisdom which might not be attainable by the non-risk-taker who has a very fixed and possibly overly self-righteous view of the world.

[Trimmer]

Right, no one owes me anything. I just thought women would be attracted to such good qualities. I was wrong.

It's kind of like owning a restaurant. In order to be successful, you have to do a number of things pretty well. And significantly falling short in just one or two areas can really bring about failure. You can sit around all day wondering why stupid, loser customers aren't attracted to your great food, but if your service sucks, and your atmosphere is oppressive, then even a wonderful, tasty, diverse menu isn't going to be enough. Something else is wrong.

 

In my mind, you do seem to have many admirable, attractive qualities. Yes, being successful, confident, ambitious, etc. are generally attractive qualities, but like the food in a restaurant, they aren't - by themselves, in isolation of other considerations - a guarantee of success. I also perceive in your posts here (and I'm not the only one...), threads of arrogance, dismissiveness, rudeness ("At times I am rude, but I feel sometimes you have to be,") etc., and I wonder if these don't paint a picture of a personality that has some less attractive elements that are affecting your dating prospects, in spite of your attractive qualities. Great food, but maybe your service is lacking...

 

A lot of this discussion echoes the discussion in your "is my situation rare?" thread. I'll ask you the same question here, since you didn't answer it there:

 

Well, you can either sit on your principles and keep doing the exact same thing and hope for a different outcome eventually, or you can consider making some kind of a change, some way, somehow. Allowing that we all have certain areas that are non-negotiable (for example, it sounds like smoking will remain a part of your life...), has there been anything else in the discussions here that has prompted any thoughts about making changes, major or minor?

 

This sums it up nicely:

...when everyone of the opposite sex seems unable to appreciate your great qualities, you have to again look at yourself to figure out what's driving them away.

...or optionally, learn to be happy on your own, without any of those drama-queen losers in your life.

[uniqueone]

I didn't read the entire thread so hope I don't repeat anything said...

 

 

You must be young, PP, because if you ruled out divorce, then you just ruled out my entire age group. And if you're young, that could explain why the women are going for jailbirds (aka badboys).

Could you maybe add some excitement to your personality? Some daring?

 

Another problem I see is that you feel you fit the perfect package. This Summer I met a guy who I thought was just ok. He had a great job, wasn't bad looking, was very intelligent and we had good conversation. But I thought he was just ok. Then for two weeks he kept trying to go out with me and I got the impression he wanted to have some "fun" after the date so I kept putting him off. Finally I dismissed him entirely.

 

This started this long email exchange which was pretty funny actually. In fact, I saved it and I could show it to you. He went on and on about what a great catch he was....how he was smart, nice looking, had a great job....and how I could have it all and was turning it down. He basically was making a salespitch to me.

 

He didn't seem to get that it was MORE than just those things that makes for an attraction. Did you ever see a sweater in a store and you liked the color and it was your size and you always liked that maker, but when you tried it on, it just didn't look right on you? Just because you have those qualities on paper doesn't mean you "fit" with someone.

 

And I think it's that attitude that you carry that you're a good catch that puts people off. I know it put ME off when that guy said it to me. Ok, so I was ALREADY put off, but it put me off even MORE.

 

Someone on here asked how do you know how MUCH confidence to show.

There's a difference between confidence and arrogance.

 

Arrogance is a feeling that you're better than others.

Confidence is a feeling that you feel ok about yourself.

 

And arrogance is really just a false sense of confidence.

[Lizzie60]

I have not read the thread but what you said here...

 

I respect someone that has a good career and has made effort to not be divorced or have children outside of marriage. Do these things not speak volumes about someone's character?

 

It takes a lot of character to build yourself a career and to not have children outside of marriage, for example. I feel these are good traits that will carry over into oter areas of life.

 

.... I find a bit 'old fashioned' so maybe you come across as being a bit 'odd'... a lot of people live common-law...I don't see that as 'weak character'... I find your comment a bit strange... so that could be your problem... IMO.

[Trimmer]

Someone on here asked how do you know how MUCH confidence to show.

There's a difference between confidence and arrogance.

 

Arrogance is a feeling that you're better than others.

Confidence is a feeling that you feel ok about yourself.

 

And arrogance is really just a false sense of confidence.

I think this is huge... I didn't get around to responding to that question of how much confidence to show, but this answers it perfectly.

 

The other thing about how much confidence to show is that yes, you can go out and act confident, but much better is if you truly are confident, centered, and comfortable with yourself. Then you don't have to act it out. I think it's the acting - intentionally projecting an image - that can get people into appearing arrogant.

 

So unfortunately to some, the advice to "be confident" is not a quick fix. It isn't enough to just "act confident," you have to find yourself, find your confidence, truly be confident and self-assured, because while the act may get you the first date, it won't survive the light of day as a relationship progresses.

 

peace_pipe - I can't remember if you mentioned it, but are you (a) getting dates and finding that, on further interaction, you are not attracted to the women, (b) getting dates and finding yourself attracted and interested in them, but they soon reject you, or © having trouble even finding/getting potential dates?

[lindya]

Another thing I'd like to bring up is sexual charisma. It's difficult to let yourself go and have fun with a disapproving, judgemental sort of character, which is maybe why a lot of people who regard themselves as being "high quality" or a catch don't meet with quite the success (with the opposite sex) that they think they should.

 

I've met guys like that - who, on paper, have all the qualities that would make a good husband....but if there's something rather cold and disapproving about them, it's difficult to imagine the sex being very enjoyable. You'd feel like all physical flaws were being placed ruthlessly under the microscope....and it might be more fun to get a gynie examination from Severus Snape.

 

Probably a very unfair assumption, and maybe it's just me who feels that way. It's just a gut feeling I get from men who coldly and arrogantly regard themselves as "a catch".

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

First off: I completely agree with you, Peace_pipe.

 

Remarkable. This thread has covered almost everything to be said -and much more. Unfortunately it has taken a wrong turn -here and there.

 

Am I just I the oddball in a world of immorality?

 

Listen, Peace_pipe. You are not the oddball in this world.

 

There will always be people, men and women -especially women, that will forcefully go against the traits and information you presented in your original post -and the way you "think" of yourself as both a person and a man.

 

You (learn to) ignore them -particularly those on this LoveShack Board that say you are not a catch.

 

I don't think you are being judgmental in excluding divorced, unfaithful women. Rather, I think it is so refreshing to see a man take action and want to further his opinions on such an issue.

 

As for a solution to finding a decent woman, there isn't much you can do. Be yourself, and don't change for anyone -just because you think it will "enlighten" you.

 

There is a woman out there for you, you just have to be patient enough to let her come to you -or you find her. On last thing, the best thing I'd like a guy like yourself do if I were to come across you in real life is to be kind enough to strike up a conversation. Show your manners -don't hide behind huge walls.

 

Sand&Water

[uniqueone]

There is a woman out there for you, you just have to be patient enough to let her come to you -or you find her.

 

 

Nothing personal, Sand&Water, but I just hate this saying. What does being patient have to do with it??? It has nothing to do with it. It doesn't take patience....it takes action. The right person isn't going to fall into your lap and you're not going to fall into theirs. That only happens in the movies.

 

Patience...schmatience.....it doesn't have a thing to do with it!

 

Sorry....just had to get that off my chest.....