sb129 Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Uniqueone and NJ- great posts. Uniqueone, I wouldn't say I am model material or anything. London is particularly bad for unwanted/ unsolicited male attention, maybe there is something in the water here. This: And finding all of this out about them is depressing. That's why this is so difficult to face. You have the high you get from their attention vs. the depression you get from finding out that it's all fake. Well why choose the depression, right? It's because of that knocking that you hear....and that knocking is going to get louder and louder until there's no high anymore. And that high is going to turn into a low and one that is far lower than the depression you'd face now if you realized who they really are. is right on. I have been right to the bottom of that downward spiral, and its not much fun at all. I am happy to say i have pulled out of it, and am in a happy secure loving relationship with a wonderful man who treats me the way i have always wanted to be treated. The dark days were awful though, and i really wish i had had some of this kind of advice then. Mcfadden, there are many people who have threesomes, and they are consenting adults and it is up to them. I wonder how many women really really DO want them though, or whether they are going thru with it because they want to please someone or they don't want to be criticised for not doing it. I am sure there are confident, stable women out there who participate in, enjoy, and are not adversely affected by threesomes. However, I highly doubt CC is one of these women.
McFadden Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Have you read the vast majority of cc's threads? I recommend you do. She has an ongoing battle with self-esteem and respect with men. Don't condone sleezebag behaviour because this is not what she wants or needs. No, haven't checked it out yet. If that type of behavior is a bit too kinky for her she did the right thing by telling him no. I was not suggesting she go through with it or anything like that. I just don't understand who's hand is coming down from the sky and writing the rules for what behavior is acceptable. If she is not comfortable with a certain level of sleaziness she should by all means set boundaries about that like people have advised, but saying there's something inherently wrong with certain ways of behaving doesn't help anyone and just makes people feel judged IMO. And I just felt like these guys, whoever they are, are getting a bad rap for no reason that I can figure out. They thought she liked both of them and has come across as a kinky person so they made a suggestion..if they don't keep pushing it why its a problem.
Trialbyfire Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 No, haven't checked it out yet. If that type of behavior is a bit too kinky for her she did the right thing by telling him no. I was not suggesting she go through with it or anything like that. I just don't understand who's hand is coming down from the sky and writing the rules for what behavior is acceptable. If she is not comfortable with a certain level of sleaziness she should by all means set boundaries about that like people have advised, but saying there's something inherently wrong with certain ways of behaving doesn't help anyone and just makes people feel judged IMO. And I just felt like these guys, whoever they are, are getting a bad rap for no reason that I can figure out. They thought she liked both of them and has come across as a kinky person so they made a suggestion..if they don't keep pushing it why its a problem. If you read what she wrote in her opening post, they came back at her twice. First time, gentle, next time, you need to get tough. She was also not happy about this behaviour. While threesomes are something that different people enjoy, this isn't what she wants so why even suggest that it's acceptable behaviour to her? As a 19 year-old, you have a different concept of morality. That is your perogative but you will find that as you age, you will have difficulty garnering respect with your attitude. If this is what you want, that is your choice. Most of us feel differently.
McFadden Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Mcfadden, there are many people who have threesomes, and they are consenting adults and it is up to them. I wonder how many women really really DO want them though, or whether they are going thru with it because they want to please someone or they don't want to be criticised for not doing it. I am sure there are confident, stable women out there who participate in, enjoy, and are not adversely affected by threesomes. However, I highly doubt CC is one of these women. Yeah, I doubt it. I didn't even realize she was not an adult or I wouldn't have said anything but, in no way was I saying she should do it. It is just somewhat rare to get a 2-guy 3-way offer, they must be kinky as hell. I wonder if they were actually going to do anything with each other. Anyway my point was why feel angry at the person who brought up the idea? I think its too harsh to say "because they asked you to have a 3 way they think you are a piece of meat and have no respect for you." Maybe they just thought that they all would enjoy that. Its like saying "if someone asks you to go to Disneyland for the day and you don't want to go they have no respect for you."
sb129 Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 OF course ChillChic is an adult. What she does is up to her. However, she is asking for advice on an advice forum regarding this situation which she is clearly uncomfortable about, and several of us know her background, have a bit of life experience between us, and are trying to help her. Comparing a proposition for a threesome is NOTHING like being asked to go to Disneyland. In my experience, threesomes can be destructive. Most women I know who have participated in them were either drunk, being paid to do it, or being pressurised by their boyfriends. Funnily enough, none of the relationships survived following the event, and I would say most of them regret going through with it because they felt cheap and used, and like pieces of meat. I am not saying there is necessarily anything wrong with threesomes. However, I do think that people should think about them carefully, be prepared for the consequences, and know that sometimes the reality isn't as good as the fantasy. I digress- we are not actually discussing the pros and cons of a threesome. We are trying to offer some advice on how to avoid getting into the situations where you feel compromised and let down by a man.
Trialbyfire Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 We are trying to offer some advice on how to avoid getting into the situations where you feel compromised and let down by a man. What would I do without your no-nonsense attitude? Excellent clarity of thought.
sb129 Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 What would I do without your no-nonsense attitude? Excellent clarity of thought. Why thank you. You aren't so bad yourself there.
McFadden Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Comparing a proposition for a threesome is NOTHING like being asked to go to Disneyland. In my experience, threesomes can be destructive. Most women I know who have participated in them were either drunk, being paid to do it, or being pressurised by their boyfriends. Funnily enough, none of the relationships survived following the event, and I would say most of them regret going through with it because they felt cheap and used, and like pieces of meat. Yes, and the reason they feel that way is not because there is anything inherently wrong with a threesome or any other sexual behavior. Its because a society with Victorian carry overs is placing a judgement on them that makes them artificially feel guilty and bad. That's why its the women feeling that way more so than the men. I know my feelings about sexual behaviors aren't relevent but I feel that the original poster, if she does have a self esteem problem, its imposed from the outside as much as anything. If you read what she wrote in her opening post, they came back at her twice. First time, gentle, next time, you need to get tough. She was also not happy about this behaviour. While threesomes are something that different people enjoy, this isn't what she wants so why even suggest that it's acceptable behaviour to her? Because I never see any reason to make things into black and white or acceptable and unacceptable. As a 19 year-old, you have a different concept of morality. That is your perogative but you will find that as you age, you will have difficulty garnering respect with your attitude. If this is what you want, that is your choice. Most of us feel differently. I definitely noticed that most people feel differently, but if you are a proponent of interracial relationships in the south in the 1960s and most people felt differently, that doesn't make thier opinion more valid. I'm ignoring the reference to my age because its brought up every time I disagree with someone. Anyway I did skim CCs posts I couldn't keep them straight because each one mentions how beautiful she is, how she is a genius, and wealthy, and the nicest person ever, or all of the above. Not to be mean but I get the feeling that sometimes she is posting to brag more so than to actually get advice. Especially the worries about other people being jealous of/intimidated by her. There's nothing wrong with all that, all be damned if I don't brag sometimes but its just that posting about stuff like that on here, and it is going to get taken as a serious problem. Self esteem problem? I don't know..CC If you know you are good looking and intelligent you already have a leg up on most people as far as self esteem. The solution may be to stop worrying and focusing on 'the self' and all of these percieved problems youre having so much and the rest will follow. Sorry if that sounds over simplified but I'm not a big believer in the concept of self esteem anyway.
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 after that message I wrote to him, this is what he wrote back: "whoa....it was a total joke. it was 3 in the morning, and neither of us expected it to happen, or would even do it. if i knew you would get this upset i would not have done it. we were just being drunk idiots." ummmm???
Trialbyfire Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Here's what I would write back. "It's disturbing to me that you would even joke about this. Drunk or otherwise, I would expect a little more respect from both of you. While I do want to maintain a friendship with both of you, understand that this isn't the type of joke I appreciate for future. Take care."
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 that would be a good message back, straight and to the point, and that is what I'll be. ohh...I'm thinking this might matter in the situation, maybe not, but did I mention that these 2 guys are cousins??? strange right??
Trialbyfire Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 That's part of what concerns me. All in the family, ya' know. I recalled that they were, from one of your previous threads. Btw, they sound very young or at minimal, very immature.
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Ok, I'm curious. Can you above average women give us some pictures of what you look like when say, going to the store or something? And to the OP, you have a LOT of work to do on yourself and it's going to take more than LS to do it. These guys AREN'T your friends. You're a piece of a$$ to them. That's it. I don't care how they disguise it. They can wrap it up in fancy ribbon and bows but that's still what you are to them. But you: like the attention want to believe they like you for more than that feel desirable and sexy because of their attention it gives you a high and boosts your low self esteem But....knock..knock...knock....what's that nagging noise you're hearing.......that uneasy feeling that you're not being respected.....that feeling that maybe you're being used....... That knocking you're hearing is your GUT feeling. And when someone has low self esteem, they don't know if they should trust their gut feelings or not. They don't trust anything coming from themselves. They tend to only accept what's given to them from other sources...other people. But you know what? Your gut feeling is right! It took me years to find tht out. It's not fooling you. And you might not like what your gut feeling is telling you. That would mean you have to give up the attention, the feeling of being desirable and sexy and the high you're getting. The thing is, it's all false....it's not real attention...they're pretending just to get what they want. And finding all of this out about them is depressing. That's why this is so difficult to face. You have the high you get from their attention vs. the depression you get from finding out that it's all fake. Well why choose the depression, right? It's because of that knocking that you hear....and that knocking is going to get louder and louder until there's no high anymore. And that high is going to turn into a low and one that is far lower than the depression you'd face now if you realized who they really are. As for that MySpace, Facebook or whatever site it was.....meaningless. The scenario you give as a possible cause of his behavior is like saying that your BF asked you if you wanted to get gang banged because he found out you stopped off at McDonalds with your male friends from the gym on the way home from a workout. you stressed some very good points. I do get that "high" from attention, and it is addicting, just like a drug....you need it constantly to feel good. and then when I don't get it, I ask for it, then they deliver. or they deliver and I give. it is like having a drug ring without the drugs lol. well anyway, I do feel like I don't know any guy right now, after reading your post and looking back at all the mess that I went along with, it gives me a heads up to all the guys I need to get rid of. It makes me sick actually that I've been interacting with these guys like that. the one that gives me respect is out of town right now, but he told me he's not ready to give me all the attention I deserve since he's traveling alot now and working alot of hours. so I don't know what to do with that. but I need to realize that what you said is what I'm doing, and the addiction has turned to the worst, in making me feel very low.
oppath Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Hmmm. This reminds me of when my ex emailed me asking if I wanted to be friends with benefits. I was outraged at how disrespectful it was to me. I felt objectified and like a piece of meat...and she KNEW I wanted more. She too said she was just joking, which really set me off on her. Her defense was "so what. I'm allowed to ask for what I want. He didn't have to go psycho, he could have just said no." Really? You dump someone and they tell you 4 times "I can't be your friend right now, I need to heal. We may never be able to be friends because I wanted more, and I'm not willing to accept less than what I wanted and was offering unless I feel no anger, bitterness, pain, longing, desire, or attraction. Until that happens we can't be friends. Please respect this" and you ask to be **** buddies, and that is not disrespectful and deserving of being reamed out? There are no Victorian codes there, it is common sense. The difference is that CC hasn't had a relationship yet and perhaps promoted a kinky vibe so he didn't know what she really wanted. Nonetheless, it was tactless. And as far as him joking, not really. I'm sure if she said yes he wouldn't have said "we were just joking." I would reply "I understand if you were joking, but it makes me feel objectified and like a piece of meat, and I was offended." Joking about a 3-some is ok, actually, depending on context. If him and her were sexually flirting, he could say "what about a 3-some, is that something you would ever consider?" That is how you ask. You don't drunk dial someone or drunk email them and say "Joe and I both want to bang you, are you down?" Similar to my ex asking me to be **** buddies. Email? Perhaps, if we were hanging out one-on-one and flirting she could have propositioned a friends with benefits arrangement. Otherwise no dice. She was ****ing clueless to ask for what she did and imbued serious damage to me. No one has the right to joke with my emotions, especially when I asserted boundaries. The problem with CC, is that I'm not sure she's asserted boundaries. Someone drunk dialing or emailing you suggesting a 3-some is not appropriate. The only time to suggest that is within the context of a kinky conversation. It doesn't sound like that is the case.
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 That's part of what concerns me. All in the family, ya' know. I recalled that they were, from one of your previous threads. Btw, they sound very young or at minimal, very immature. yah I did post about them awhile back. I didn't understand, and to me, that's like weird kinky, but I guess they were up for that kind of thing. they are my age, well I'm 26 , one is 24 will be 25 in october and the other is 25, and yes very highschool-like.
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Hmmm. This reminds me of when my ex emailed me asking if I wanted to be friends with benefits. I was outraged at how disrespectful it was to me. I felt objectified and like a piece of meat...and she KNEW I wanted more. She too said she was just joking, which really set me off on her. Her defense was "so what. I'm allowed to ask for what I want. He didn't have to go psycho, he could have just said no." Really? You dump someone and they tell you 4 times "I can't be your friend right now, I need to heal. We may never be able to be friends because I wanted more, and I'm not willing to accept less than what I wanted and was offering unless I feel no anger, bitterness, pain, longing, desire, or attraction. Until that happens we can't be friends. Please respect this" and you ask to be **** buddies, and that is not disrespectful and deserving of being reamed out? There are no Victorian codes there, it is common sense. The difference is that CC hasn't had a relationship yet and perhaps promoted a kinky vibe so he didn't know what she really wanted. Nonetheless, it was tactless. And as far as him joking, not really. I'm sure if she said yes he wouldn't have said "we were just joking." I would reply "I understand if you were joking, but it makes me feel objectified and like a piece of meat, and I was offended." Joking about a 3-some is ok, actually, depending on context. If him and her were sexually flirting, he could say "what about a 3-some, is that something you would ever consider?" That is how you ask. You don't drunk dial someone or drunk email them and say "Joe and I both want to bang you, are you down?" Similar to my ex asking me to be **** buddies. Email? Perhaps, if we were hanging out one-on-one and flirting she could have propositioned a friends with benefits arrangement. Otherwise no dice. She was ****ing clueless to ask for what she did and imbued serious damage to me. No one has the right to joke with my emotions, especially when I asserted boundaries. The problem with CC, is that I'm not sure she's asserted boundaries. Someone drunk dialing or emailing you suggesting a 3-some is not appropriate. The only time to suggest that is within the context of a kinky conversation. It doesn't sound like that is the case. yah very tactful huh? a drunk dial at 2:45 in the morning, at first when he left a message, I thought he was in some sort of trouble or needed a ride home or whatever, so I called him back. but no, he just asked me "where are you I want to have freak nasty sex with you, and "...." is here so we want to have a 3-some" wow those are some words to hear at 3 am in the morning. I understand drunk dials, I've done them before, but when you're sober on the other end it's a lil different, and yah at first I took it as a joke, but then I started asking myself if that was right of them to do, and how they must see me in that light.
oppath Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 I should note that I am a very kinky person too. I've been wooing a girl back in SoCal and we have discussed dating when I get back in two weeks. I have been very direct in having a sexual relationship with her. I have described things I want to do to her sexually. She's probably not used to someone being so direct. Yet I respect her deeply. I would push the envelope and allow her to respond and show me where to go, and I'd go pretty far. BUT THEN I WOULD CHANGE THE SUBJECT to something non-sexual. Kinky guys interested in more will do this. I'll go from talking about tearing off her panties with my teeth to talking about how their is an Asian pop art exhibit at the museum here and I wish she were here so she could come with me in 10 seconds time. I'm able to get away with being highly sexual because I make it clear I'm not just sexing her. So Chill Chic, if being kinky is part of your personality, that is fine. I'm going to ravage this girl in bed on our first date (I've known her for a couple years on the fringe). She could easily get the impression I just want sex, because I am graphic with her. However, guys who want more, will talk about more. They will push sexually, then change the subject. If you are kinky, I suggest you do the same. Talk about sex. Get flirty. Then change the subject. If the guy wants more, he'll do the same thing. He may bring the conversation back to sex, but he too will change subjects. Why? Because intellectual foreplay is hot!!
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Here's what I would write back. "It's disturbing to me that you would even joke about this. Drunk or otherwise, I would expect a little more respect from both of you. While I do want to maintain a friendship with both of you, understand that this isn't the type of joke I appreciate for future. Take care." ya know...I think I might not respond to that. and if I don't, it tells him that his actions were immature, and it might keep him in suspense. I'm not sure what he'll think if I don't, but I don't feel like I need to respond to his immature response like that. It's better left unsaid in my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong though.
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 I should note that I am a very kinky person too. I've been wooing a girl back in SoCal and we have discussed dating when I get back in two weeks. I have been very direct in having a sexual relationship with her. I have described things I want to do to her sexually. She's probably not used to someone being so direct. Yet I respect her deeply. I would push the envelope and allow her to respond and show me where to go, and I'd go pretty far. BUT THEN I WOULD CHANGE THE SUBJECT to something non-sexual. Kinky guys interested in more will do this. I'll go from talking about tearing off her panties with my teeth to talking about how their is an Asian pop art exhibit at the museum here and I wish she were here so she could come with me in 10 seconds time. I'm able to get away with being highly sexual because I make it clear I'm not just sexing her. So Chill Chic, if being kinky is part of your personality, that is fine. I'm going to ravage this girl in bed on our first date (I've known her for a couple years on the fringe). She could easily get the impression I just want sex, because I am graphic with her. However, guys who want more, will talk about more. They will push sexually, then change the subject. If you are kinky, I suggest you do the same. Talk about sex. Get flirty. Then change the subject. If the guy wants more, he'll do the same thing. He may bring the conversation back to sex, but he too will change subjects. Why? Because intellectual foreplay is hot!! have you been watching too many anime films? and where are you from? did you read that these 2 guys are cousins?
oppath Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 yah very tactful huh? a drunk dial at 2:45 in the morning, at first when he left a message, I thought he was in some sort of trouble or needed a ride home or whatever, so I called him back. but no, he just asked me "where are you I want to have freak nasty sex with you, and "...." is here so we want to have a 3-some" wow those are some words to hear at 3 am in the morning. I understand drunk dials, I've done them before, but when you're sober on the other end it's a lil different, and yah at first I took it as a joke, but then I started asking myself if that was right of them to do, and how they must see me in that light. Ok. If your relationship started along these lines, a freaky FWB situation, I can't say him making the booty call is inappropriate. The 3-some request IS. That is not the way to do it. There is no context for it. None. These guys have a lot to learn. There is a time and place for asking stuff like that but you have to calibrate it to an exisiting flirtatious conversation. While there is nothing wrong with him making a booty call, a mature guy would just say "I've been thinking about you. I'm horny and wish you were here." He'd put a little bit out there, and allow you to respond to show him where it is ok to take it. FWB booty calls usually don't involve drunk dialing saying "I'm drunk. I want to **** you." That is a classless way to approach it. You flirt. You say "what are you doing?" "Not much, what about you?" "Thinking about you, and how sexy you are." You flirt. You put a little bit out, see what is offered back.
Trialbyfire Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 ya know...I think I might not respond to that. and if I don't, it tells him that his actions were immature, and it might keep him in suspense. I'm not sure what he'll think if I don't, but I don't feel like I need to respond to his immature response like that. It's better left unsaid in my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong though. Your choice cc. Whatever works with your personality. As long as it's not the soft-sell, you'll be fine.
oppath Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 have you been watching too many anime films? and where are you from? did you read that these 2 guys are cousins? I don't watch anime. I've been described as a pretty-boy jock by anime dudes. I'm from San Diego. Yes, I just read they are cousins. That is disturbing as hell. These guys don't know how to sexually escalate. I'm not sure what you mean with your anime reference. What I do know is you can talk about sex a LOT, you can be kinky, you can be graphic, yet you can demonstrate that you want more and that you are unwilling to be treated as a piece of meat. That requires push-pull. If you only put out a kinky vibe, that's all you are going to get back. If you talk about sex and then change the subject, it builds anticipation, gains respect, and deepens intimacy.
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Your choice cc. Whatever works with your personality. As long as it's not the soft-sell, you'll be fine. why would he respond like that though? is he embarrassed to some degree? and he's trying to hide some fact? why would he respond so effortlessly?
Author chill chic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 I don't watch anime. I've been described as a pretty-boy jock by anime dudes. I'm from San Diego. Yes, I just read they are cousins. That is disturbing as hell. These guys don't know how to sexually escalate. I'm not sure what you mean with your anime reference. What I do know is you can talk about sex a LOT, you can be kinky, you can be graphic, yet you can demonstrate that you want more and that you are unwilling to be treated as a piece of meat. That requires push-pull. If you only put out a kinky vibe, that's all you are going to get back. If you talk about sex and then change the subject, it builds anticipation, gains respect, and deepens intimacy. sorry the anime thing was just a joke, but it seemed to me you liked graphic sex and when I think of graphic sex, I think of anime films. anyway, it's ok if you do it, but the point that I was trying to make, I'd rather be kinky with someone that I'm in a relationship with and that respects me. I do like the part at the end where you said if you change the subject, it will do those things, and I've seen that happen, but still I'm trying to figure how to go about behaviors of such situations before I'm even exclusive with them.
oppath Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 why would he respond like that though? is he embarrassed to some degree? and he's trying to hide some fact? why would he respond so effortlessly? Because he's not mature enough to say "you know what, I am sorry. I can see how that would make you offended. You're my friend and it won't happen again." I had a relationship with my ex. We expressed love. She brought up marriage. I told her "it's too soon to be friends, I can't do that right now." She asked to be **** buddies. I expressed anger. She said she was "just joking." Why? Because she was immature and embarrassed and incapable of saying "I made a mistake, I was wrong to even go there." I upset a friend a couple months ago. It was clear to her that we were just friends...in fact she mentioned having a crush on my roommate...I invited her out to dinner, and at dinner a girl I started seeing called me and I invited her to join us. I didn't ask my friend. I assumed it would be ok. I get an email from her the next day telling me how upset she was that I disrespected her. I did not see the big deal, but obviously, it was a big deal to her, so I said "I understand why you would be hurt; no-one wants to be the third wheel. I should have asked you first if it was ok for someone else to join us. I apologize, you do deserve more respect than that."
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