Frustrated with friend and dramatic lies.

[tinktronik]

I have a friend K , who has two little girls . She has been divorced from G and lives across country from me now. For the last few years she has been on again off again fighting in custody of her two girls.

Myself as well as others have had concerns about the way she is handling the girls for a long time now .

 

1. She has told them every time they ask for something that because G did not send enough money they cannot have said item (to the point where the girls are in hysterics and saying they hate G) she has taken them with her to pawn their movies and told them it was because of G.They have become terrified of G and think he is going to steal them and she has told them they will never see her again.

 

2. She gets in fights with their teachers over petty things and has pulled them out of school for long periods of time.They have not been to school for a year.

 

3. She probably has them at dr, or theripist appts 5-6 days every week , with claims that they have all sorts of maladies and/or medical illnesses.

The girls are clearly fairly normal besides having a very strange mother.To the point where they are on all sorts of meds and their whole life is going to the dr.

 

Last week I knew she had a court hearing . She called me and saw several of our mutual friends the day after and told them all that G had won custody and the girls were gone forever , that her friends children would never see them again.(sending those friends into hysterics) She gave away all of her groceries , and refused to eat , threatened to commit suicide, she also told her children that G was taking them and they would never see her again.

 

It turns out that the girls are only gone for a 2 week visitation.

 

I feel so bad for these children and have tried to talk to K to get her to stop these things . The rest of our mutual friends say it is stranger than I know , and they suggest concern also .

G has tried to contact them as well as me to discuss what I may or may not know. At this point I have not talked with him . I do not know him well, but suspect he may be a better parent to the girls as I suspect their mother may be mentally ill.

 

What do I do?

[underpants]

Wow,

 

That sucks for those girls. How old are they?

 

It may really be in there best interest to have more time with their Dad? Also, does the mom go to therapy for herself? Or is it just the kids she is always sending to the Doctors?

 

This reminds me of my sister's husband's ex wife. That lady was/is krrrazzzeeeey. She put her children through a whole bunch of dysfunctional, emotional and probably physical bad stuff. She hit my bro in law in the head with a cast iron pan and fractured his skull. Adopted over 25 animals (small house) then got rid of them all and told those kids (then 10-12) it was all his fault. Once drug one of her kids by the arm while driving (he was being pulled along on the street). She is diagnosed bipolar. I have only met her once, but the stories....I could write for days on the horror stories I have heard.

 

It reminds me of that movie 'Running with Scissors'.

 

His children from her are now in their 20s and have managed to grow into really great adults. I do think this is largely due to my sis and their Dad's influence.

 

She is still a part of their lives (as all Moms should be). It seems from my relationship with my niece and nephews that they have moved from little kid confused victim, to get me outta here, to more of an acceptance of her condition and love her regardless of it. They know now probably better then anyone else her swings and triggers and when she is likely to have breaks. It is all very sad though.

 

As her friend can you suggest she get some mental health for herself?

 

Sounds like trying to control her kid's love and feed her own bitterness is turning into a bad way to be. She needs to let the bitterness with the ex go and be a good healthy Mom.

 

Dang, I wrote alot...

 

Hope you find something helpful in there.

[tinktronik]

She is not in therapy for herself. I don know she had three children previously that she does not have now for whatever reason. i suspect they may have been removed from her care. Her daughters are five and six.

I have talked to her about all of these issues and she just gets more agressive and refuses to speak to her friends for months at a time. There is clearly something very wrong here .

[tinktronik]

Do you think I should make Dad aware of all these things?

[underpants]

Do you think I should make Dad aware of all these things?

 

I am currently obsessing with you on this.

 

Awe, those little girls. Give them to me. (just kidding).

 

You say you have approached your friend with these concerns and her reaction is negative/aggressive/avoidance. She is in denial.

 

You are in a tough spot. However, when you try to advise your friend you get slammed and ignored. If you communicate with the Husband she will probably really hate you (whatever that could entail with an unstable person).

 

Can you tell him these things? There has to be documentation of how often these girls go to the doc. How much school they miss. Various medicines they are on and off again.

 

Could you trust him to leave you out of it? Is there a way to do it anon. Like...oh, set up a temp email on the www. Then send info/suggestions as a concerned 3rd party who just wishes to help but wants to stay out of it? If so I would draft one really informative letter with suggestions. Surely if he is serious he is compiling a case with an attorney to gain custody.

[tinktronik]

I am currently obsessing with you on this.

 

Awe, those little girls. Give them to me. (just kidding).

 

You say you have approached your friend with these concerns and her reaction is negative/aggressive/avoidance. She is in denial.

 

You are in a tough spot. However, when you try to advise your friend you get slammed and ignored. If you communicate with the Husband she will probably really hate you (whatever that could entail with an unstable person).

 

Can you tell him these things? There has to be documentation of how often these girls go to the doc. How much school they miss. Various medicines they are on and off again.

 

Could you trust him to leave you out of it? Is there a way to do it anon. Like...oh, set up a temp email on the www. Then send info/suggestions as a concerned 3rd party who just wishes to help but wants to stay out of it? If so I would draft one really informative letter with suggestions. Surely if he is serious he is compiling a case with an attorney to gain custody.

I suspect he is serious and I had been wracking my brain on how to talk anon with him. I do not think he is aware of the extent of how things are "wrong" in this sitch.

I don't know if I could trust him to leave me out of it , and I don't know if saving the friendship would be possible not even desired on my part after all of the lies shes told .

If she would get help it would be a different scenerio , but she won't not ever.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Tink,

 

You talked about friends that the two of you have in common. Have you asked their feelings on this? I would think that the father should know provided he has the resources and desire to want to help them. I have a fear of a situation where the children are removed from both parents and the state steps in. THAT has the potential to be an even worse situation than staying with the parent.

 

How do the kids handle her? Generally, altleast one will "step up" and attempt to parent the parent. I saw my neice go through that at a very young age. That is really so so very sad.

[tinktronik]

Tink,

 

You talked about friends that the two of you have in common. Have you asked their feelings on this? I would think that the father should know provided he has the resources and desire to want to help them. I have a fear of a situation where the children are removed from both parents and the state steps in. THAT has the potential to be an even worse situation than staying with the parent.

 

How do the kids handle her? Generally, altleast one will "step up" and attempt to parent the parent. I saw my neice go through that at a very young age. That is really so so very sad.

I too have the same fear which is the only reason as to yet that I have never contacted social services especially in the area in which she lives.

Our mutual friends feel the same as me , but I dont think any of them have the backbone to do anything they both live very close to her and there would be retruibution from her if she found out. In fact the mutual friends both told me it was stranger than I knew and let me in on some other strangeness that I did not know about.

The oldest girl acts out , I think they are very stressed emotionally and unable to fit in with other children.

[underpants]

Here is what maybe you could do.

 

Spend some time today and maybe tomorrow writing a letter to the H. Muse it, remember stuff go back and revise, sleep on it and look at it again.

 

Cite examples that can be proven. When you feel like you have a masterpiece, print it out and either mail it directly to him (no return address). Or if very paranoid (I err to this thinking) set up that anon acct and rewrite it there. If really really paranoid, do all this from a library or internet cafe, or someplace with a public pc that has internet. One letter and get out of the fire.

 

Unfortunately, little bad examples might not be so easy to prove and may enlighted parties of your identity.

 

These children were enrolled in this school "name of school". They sustained long absences. Records may be able to help you prove this. Phone number of school.

 

An attorney should be able to help you retrieve medical records through various insurance companies. They have been to various doctors. List names and numbers if you know them or look them up. Medications you have been told they were on.

 

Private dectectives may be able to observe and report incidents of abuse. Or court ordered social workers (but that is tricky as state run appointed times rarely give one a glimpse into the real stuff).

 

Can the court order the Mom to undergo a psyc eval?

 

Maybe a paragraph or two about how you are a concerned 3rd party and think that the situation is bad enough to warrant concern.

 

That is really all you can do?

 

Custody cases can be so ugly. You might be subpoened to appear by either party as may mutual friends. This may even come from her without any knowlege of what action you take or don't take.

 

I think if he wants more custody and he is deemed the fitter parent then I see nothing wrong with that. These girls will always have their Mom. However, mom sounds like a real troubled person and in that case you have to think about the interests of the children.

 

All you can do is be honest about your perception of things and step up if you feel it is the right thing to do.

 

Good luck...

[nittygritty]

If she has lost custody of three kids before, her ex should have had no problem getting custody of the girls. Unless, he was the one who moved out of state, if that is the case the dad's move away is why she got custody.

 

I think talking to her other friends is a good idea but I also think that you and her other friends should do what is needed to protect those kids. Find out more about the Dad from her other friends and if you all decide to tell him about the situation remember that it is more than likely that you or her other friends will be called as witnesses in their custody dispute.

 

You could attempt to try and convince her to seek therapy and medication but it is doubtful she will listen and she could just never speak to you again and that won't help the kids.

 

There is a good reason she doesn't have custody of her other kids. A Mother losing total custody of three kids is very unusual and is telling of how extreme the situation was to remove those kids from her care and custody.

 

If the Dad moved out of state that was poor judgement on his part. He should have known that she was not mentally stable and that he could not protect his kids long distance. He still may be the better choice but I would make sure before opening this can of worms.

 

Maybe a group effort could be made by her friends to take turns offering to spend time with the girls without making her aware of the concern.

At least it would provide some temporary normal conditions for the kids until more information about what to do is known.

[nittygritty]

BTW it is a good thing that she has the girls to different Doctors and therapist 5 or 6 days a week. They are required by law to report abuse, even emotional abuse and they will be aware of the situation at home.

[tinktronik]

If she has lost custody of three kids before, her ex should have had no problem getting custody of the girls. Unless, he was the one who moved out of state, if that is the case the dad's move away is why she got custody.

 

I think talking to her other friends is a good idea but I also think that you and her other friends should do what is needed to protect those kids. Find out more about the Dad from her other friends and if you all decide to tell him about the situation remember that it is more than likely that you or her other friends will be called as witnesses in their custody dispute.

 

You could attempt to try and convince her to seek therapy and medication but it is doubtful she will listen and she could just never speak to you again and that won't help the kids.

 

There is a good reason she doesn't have custody of her other kids. A Mother losing total custody of three kids is very unusual and is telling of how extreme the situation was to remove those kids from her care and custody.

 

If the Dad moved out of state that was poor judgement on his part. He should have known that she was not mentally stable and that he could not protect his kids long distance. He still may be the better choice but I would make sure before opening this can of worms.

 

Maybe a group effort could be made by her friends to take turns offering to spend time with the girls without making her aware of the concern.

At least it would provide some temporary normal conditions for the kids until more information about what to do is known.

Dad did up and leave the state. I think he was just desperate to get away from K .

I don't know that there is any way for me to make sure Dad is the better choice. The older girl is not biologically his daughter but the courts have decided that he is responsible for her and so he is her Dad .

If one child had been removed from her care it would be another story , but there were three removed at seperate times in seperate states , and so I do not think it was a conspiracy against her.

We have all tried to spend time with the girls durring different time periods over the course of theri lives , but K freaks out and isolates the girls to herself.

We have at times all spoken to her about our concersn . My H also spoke to her about appropriateness , and his own concerns . So its not like she does not know that we all think there is something very wrong.

I just do not think K will ever get help .

 

I know she has had some problems with her first child when she began to stalk a well known race car circut driver claiming the child was his. the child was eventually taken for whatever other reason and adopted out.

the other two children were boys and I heard some story about her ex H killing someone and that it lead to the baby being taken , I don't know if either of these are truth . The third child I was told in the past was taken and adopted out but she has since told me he died. I don't believe this is true.

I know she has also told me that she gave birth to twin boys as well, but there is no explanation as to what happened to them or where they may be.

She is far from family and I know her parents do not approve of her mental state and she has probably isolated herself in order to keep from the influence to get help.

We (myself and mutual friends) are afraid she may do something drastic if confronted by all of us at once.

[tinktronik]

BTW it is a good thing that she has the girls to different Doctors and therapist 5 or 6 days a week. They are required by law to report abuse, even emotional abuse and they will be aware of the situation at home.

I think in the area she is in the dr's and therapists are quacks, and gratefull for the income her constant presence brings. I also thinks she lies to the dr.s and or therapists.

I actually suspect she may be a borderline munchhausen (sp?) by proxy.

She litterally (i have seen her ) makes up symptoms compulsivley and tells the girls these things are true untill they begin to repeat it or act out what she is telling them. She gets herslef all worked up as well as the girls and then rushes them into emergency or an appointment . And she is so concerned , then she calls everyone she knows in hysterics about something I have seen with my own eyes , she got the girls to do.

[love necessity]

I have a friend K , who has two little girls . She has been divorced from G and lives across country from me now. For the last few years she has been on again off again fighting in custody of her two girls.

Myself as well as others have had concerns about the way she is handling the girls for a long time now .

 

1. She has told them every time they ask for something that because G did not send enough money they cannot have said item (to the point where the girls are in hysterics and saying they hate G) she has taken them with her to pawn their movies and told them it was because of G.They have become terrified of G and think he is going to steal them and she has told them they will never see her again.

 

2. She gets in fights with their teachers over petty things and has pulled them out of school for long periods of time.They have not been to school for a year.

 

3. She probably has them at dr, or theripist appts 5-6 days every week , with claims that they have all sorts of maladies and/or medical illnesses.

The girls are clearly fairly normal besides having a very strange mother.To the point where they are on all sorts of meds and their whole life is going to the dr.

 

Last week I knew she had a court hearing . She called me and saw several of our mutual friends the day after and told them all that G had won custody and the girls were gone forever , that her friends children would never see them again.(sending those friends into hysterics) She gave away all of her groceries , and refused to eat , threatened to commit suicide, she also told her children that G was taking them and they would never see her again.

 

It turns out that the girls are only gone for a 2 week visitation.

 

I feel so bad for these children and have tried to talk to K to get her to stop these things . The rest of our mutual friends say it is stranger than I know , and they suggest concern also .

G has tried to contact them as well as me to discuss what I may or may not know. At this point I have not talked with him . I do not know him well, but suspect he may be a better parent to the girls as I suspect their mother may be mentally ill.

 

What do I do?

 

I haven't read any other post yet, but will...eventually...

 

It's probably hard for you because this is your friend and you love her, but you need to do what's right for the girls. You have three amazing boys, and wouldn't want them going through this, so please do what's right. I think you will. This woman needs to seek a professional that can help her, possibly an intervention from yourself, her family & friends and a doctor. She seems to be mentally unstable, and that is very dangerous. About a year ago, there was this woman a couple counties over who was doing the same thing to her children, because of post pardon-depression. She ended up locking her children in her car and backing it into a lake. She killed her kids, and it was so sad, because all her family knew she was unstable. You should speak up before it's too late. Also, have you ever heard about that lady who drowned her kids one by one because she was depressed?? Or claimed to have spoken to god or something? It was nuts...and so very sad...I cried for weeks after hearing that, it was horrible:(

[nittygritty]

I think in the area she is in the dr's and therapists are quacks, and gratefull for the income her constant presence brings. I also thinks she lies to the dr.s and or therapists.

I actually suspect she may be a borderline munchhausen (sp?) by proxy.

She litterally (i have seen her ) makes up symptoms compulsivley and tells the girls these things are true untill they begin to repeat it or act out what she is telling them. She gets herslef all worked up as well as the girls and then rushes them into emergency or an appointment . And she is so concerned , then she calls everyone she knows in hysterics about something I have seen with my own eyes , she got the girls to do.

 

 

After I posted that I remembered how many quacks there are .

 

She sounds delusional which means she may hallucinate or hear voices. Serious mental illnesses have psychotic episodes and unfortunately the patients don't like taking the meds because the side effects are almost as bad as the psychotic episodes.

 

I would take my chances and find a way to tell the Dad. Testifying in order to protect the kids is the right thing to do. Your friend is mentally gone and her disease will progressively get worse. This may be your only chance to help these kids and if you don't you will probably carry that guilt for the rest of your life.

 

Telling the Dad will be the best way to help the woman you became friends with, too.

[underpants]

I actually suspect she may be a borderline munchhausen (sp?) by proxy.

 

This crossed my mind as well.

 

Also with the several different doctors and several different therapists. One hand may not know what the other is doing. That is just terrible.

 

Maybe you should inform social services? Would not they look into the father's ability as well?

 

I think kid's should be with their parents but sometimes it might be best to let them have a shot at somewhat healthy life. She is teaching her kids her disorder(s).

 

I was under the impression that maybe the 3 kids were from one situation. However, 3 different incidences, maybe another 2? This is a really bad pattern. Urgh, it really makes me question the responsibility to procreate.

[love necessity]

I suspect he is serious and I had been wracking my brain on how to talk anon with him. I do not think he is aware of the extent of how things are "wrong" in this sitch.

I don't know if I could trust him to leave me out of it , and I don't know if saving the friendship would be possible not even desired on my part after all of the lies shes told .

If she would get help it would be a different scenerio , but she won't not ever.

 

Tink,

 

I know she's your friend, but you don't even talk to her that much, so who cares if you are brought into it. I think she will thank you in later days for helping her save her children from a dreadful life. You need to do what is in the the best interest of the kids. They are like little beans trying to grow into healthy stalks, but will only be brittle and unstable if they are kept in that type of environment.

 

Why hasn't the school done anything? Or does she homeschool?? Does she work??

[tinktronik]

This crossed my mind as well.

 

Also with the several different doctors and several different therapists. One hand may not know what the other is doing. That is just terrible.

 

Maybe you should inform social services? Would not they look into the father's ability as well?

 

I think kid's should be with their parents but sometimes it might be best to let them have a shot at somewhat healthy life. She is teaching her kids her disorder(s).

 

I was under the impression that maybe the 3 kids were from one situation. However, 3 different incidences, maybe another 2? This is a really bad pattern. Urgh, it really makes me question the responsibility to procreate.

Social services in the area where she lives is an absolute disaster , even in the sitch her kids are in I would not make that call .

I do agree that there needs to be some shot at a normal life for these kids , and perhaps dad would be that chance . I don't understand how they could both be crazy. From the things I have heard about Dad he is doing well and is fairly stable remarried with a baby on the way . He does not pay his child support on time all of the time , but I don't know that that makes him a bad parent.

[tinktronik]

Tink,

 

I know she's your friend, but you don't even talk to her that much, so who cares if you are brought into it. I think she will thank you in later days for helping her save her children from a dreadful life. You need to do what is in the the best interest of the kids. They are like little beans trying to grow into healthy stalks, but will only be brittle and unstable if they are kept in that type of environment.

 

Why hasn't the school done anything? Or does she homeschool?? Does she work??

I think the school just assumes she has enrolled them elsewhere. She does not homeschool but claims to the court that she does. She has a job but has longterm leave of absence due to all of the imagined medical problems that she and her kids have.

[nittygritty]

Social services in the area where she lives is an absolute disaster , even in the sitch her kids are in I would not make that call .

I do agree that there needs to be some shot at a normal life for these kids , and perhaps dad would be that chance . I don't understand how they could both be crazy. From the things I have heard about Dad he is doing well and is fairly stable remarried with a baby on the way . He does not pay his child support on time all of the time , but I don't know that that makes him a bad parent.

 

Her continually running them to doctors and therapists is also something revengeful exes do. He probably is supposed to pay the majority percentage of the out of pocket medical expenses and he is probably not paying that portion of child support because he is disputing the need for her to take these kids to all of the different doctors and therapists.

[tinktronik]

Her continually running them to doctors and therapists is also something revengeful exes do. He probably is supposed to pay the majority percentage of the out of pocket medical expenses and he is probably not paying that portion of child support because he is disputing the need for her to take these kids to all of the different doctors and therapists.

I had not considered that . It would make sense. I have never ever run into children as doctored as these . I know her last court hearing she had totaled up the number of dr. appt's given in a year and out of 365 days in a year there were like 280+ days they had seen dr's sometimes more than one a day.

[nittygritty]

I had not considered that . It would make sense. I have never ever run into children as doctored as these . I know her last court hearing she had totaled up the number of dr. appt's given in a year and out of 365 days in a year there were like 280+ days they had seen dr's sometimes more than one a day.

 

 

Oh my!

 

His attorney is probably telling him not to pay those medical bills. He is probably disputing them in the court case.

 

If you know his name and the city he lives in. You can google to find out what county he lives in. Some states have name searchable court dockets. You could try to see if he has ever had any criminal charges against him for anything. Check the state he used to live in as well.

 

If you can't find anything he still sounds like the better choice for the kids.

[tinktronik]

Oh my!

 

His attorney is probably telling him not to pay those medical bills. He is probably disputing them in the court case.

 

If you know his name and the city he lives in. You can google to find out what county he lives in. Some states have name searchable court dockets. You could try to see if he has ever had any criminal charges against him for anything. Check the state he used to live in as well.

 

If you can't find anything he still sounds like the better choice for the kids.

he does not have any court problems , he is a police officer.

[underpants]

That is too bad about the social services sitch. All too common and really ashame that things get so bad that help agencies become bogged down and not able to really help.

 

I guess I will go out on a limb and say. Talk to the Dad. Maybe you could gauge where he is at in terms of responsibility versus just fighting not to pay. I find it (hopefully) interesting that he took on resposibility of a child that was not his own. Especially since they were a year (or less) apart. Hopefully, he had genuine care for both those girls and Miss Procrehater took advantage of this for some money/sympathy.

 

I don't think it would be all that hard for him to get custody. Although, I kind of worry what she might do when presented the challenge.

 

Maybe a slow collecting of enough evidence, documents...and then an immediate swift legal injunction to relocate to the Dad for the children's safety. This are just some legal thoughts that go through my head. A custody lawyer should advise him. However, these concerns should be noted (IMO).

 

This just makes me all so sad. I don't have any children so what do I know. I do find it infuriating when those that are blessed so many times over can't appreciate the opportunity they are given.

 

Next time you see those girls give the a chin up and a smile for me.

[love necessity]

Something doesn't seem right? The doctors that her children see don't ask them how they do in school with other children, etc? That would probably be one of the utmost important things to look into as a child psychology, so something isn't right here?