Together for the kids

[Ladyjane14]

I know that staying together for the kids is a common thing but I am just curious how everyone really feels about it.

 

Personally, I don't think you stay in the marriage for the sake of the kids. Rather, you make the marriage WORK for the sake of the kids.

 

This is their marriage model. If it's faulty, if it's a lie... you're sending them out into the world with the WRONG information.

 

When a person has done everything that's within their power to do, and still can't establish a healthy marriage dynamic... I think the Dr. Philism then applies... "It's better to be from a broken home than to live in one".

 

But... cheating on your spouse isn't exactly doing all that can be done, is it?

 

A partnership cannot survive when one of it's members is starved of their most basic needs. A person who cheats on their mate, takes emotional sustenance from their partner's plate and feeds it to another. The partner must wither.

 

And the children, who are quiet observers in all this, cannot understand WHY it happened or learn what needs to be done in their own future relationships in order to prevent it.

[child_of_isis]

I think that is a very good point..."make the M work for the kids".

 

That is a very big difference than staying in M and cheating.

 

The cheating spouse creates a false reality for the children, just as they do their spouse. Fashioned by lies and deceit.

 

And we all know what happens when a false reality is finally shattered. Most of us here at LS have been through it.

 

I cannot fathom putting a child through that.

[frannie]

I think it depends a lot on how the married couple are together whether it's a good idea or not to stay married when you'd rather be with someone else. IF you can be civil, and keep your disagreements to yourself, then how does that differ from any other married couple where there is NO affair going on?

 

Or are people suggesting that EVERY time there's an uncomfortable marriage, that people should D for the sake of the children? Because that's nonsense, surely..? I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of marriages are pretty much the same... people getting on as best they can.

 

In everything I've ever read, unless there is out and out war between parents (and let's face it, that happens often enough), then staying together does seem to be the best for the children. I know, because I've read and read on this, hoping to find facts to the contrary and was disappointed.

 

Now, whether or not someone SHOULD leave because they owe it to themselves to be with the one they love..? I'm completely in two minds there... I think a happy parent equals a happy child... BUT, if what makes a parent happy is maintaining the status quo with the other parent til they're really ready to leave..? Then that's the best thing for them to do.

 

At the end of the day, it's down to the married person to make that decision for themself. And it's down to the OP to decide whether or not they can be happy living this life of affairs. Otherwise, move on... don't criticise and complain. It's not your marriage: they're not your children.

[child_of_isis]

The difference is the lies and the deceit.

 

The OP mentioned MM "staying for the kids". If the A hasn't been outed then the lies/deceit/ is still going on.

 

 

, then how does that differ from any other married couple where there is NO affair going on?

 

[Unforgetable77]

My god you have kids ranging from 12 - 2 but you have been involved in an affair for 14 years?? So all the while you were in an affair, after two years of being in one you decided to have children with your husband while not really committed to him? Does your exhusband know this? Are the kids all his?

 

ERM.... correct, I was young naive stupid call it what u like......not that it has anything to do with you but all 5 children are my exH's and yes he is fully aware of what has gone on in the past but that is the past isnt it

[Ladyjane14]

I think it depends a lot on how the married couple are together whether it's a good idea or not to stay married when you'd rather be with someone else. IF you can be civil, and keep your disagreements to yourself, then how does that differ from any other married couple where there is NO affair going on?

 

It differs because no one can see through another person's eyes. We don't know WHAT our children observe or what stands out to them as little thumbprints in remembrance of their family history. And these "little thumbprints" are what they model their future relationships upon.

 

Just this week, mine might have noticed their father grab my hand as we walked through the mall together. They might have seen me pat him on the butt as he passed by me in the kitchen. They might have witnessed me roll my eyes in aggravation at his fairly loud complaint of not being able to "find anything in this house"... but later on that same day seen me cater to his preferences for dinner. It might not mean much to them NOW that on a day when they wanted pizza and Dad wanted chicken, Mom elected to make chicken. But when they're grown-ups, married with kids of their own, they'll know to attend their spouse with these small acts of consideration.

 

'Yes', even in a healthy marriage, kids see us argue... but they also see us work things out. They see us overcome and adapt. They see us forgive and forget. Heck, they even occasionally see one of us excuse himself to take a shower... and then two of us come back with wet hair!

 

And even though they might not be old enough to 'connect the dots'... later on down the pike, they realize that what they saw was a couple of people who had a REAL relationship with one another. And that REAL relationships are messy imperfect things which require negotiation and perseverance.

 

"Civil" isn't good enough, IMO. It's not honest enough, and it doesn't TEACH anything of real merit in the context of long-term, loving relationships.

[Love4Eternity]

Bingo! It is all a lie. It is lying to your children.

 

To me, it is the same as gaslighting. Children may sense that something is off but mom and dad tells them everything is fine. And act accordingly.

 

Dress it up any way you like, but it is still gassing.

 

If you want your children to grow up to be honest adults, you should allow them the dignity of living in truth.

 

Sometimes living the truth can be to painful so living the lie seems more acceptable to some then others because at the time its what is best in order to provide an all around happy environement. surely the truth is always better when you think about it but we use our judgement call for the situation at hand and handle it accordingly..

 

we lie to our kids about santa claus, easter bunny, tooth fairy, people are living lies everyday, what about people who are on tv acting and kissing another person, when children see that isnt that a lie those people are not in love they are acting we know this but they dont...children learn from what they see not what they do not see..i do not show affection towards my married man like i do with my husband in front of my children so they are seeing mom and dad together as they should be i love him im not in love with him they will not understand the two till they get older and experience it themselves..all i can do is show them love right now and try to make a happy home for the time being till hubby and I figure out how to handle our issues...in the mean time my affair is in the closet and its not my first priority for sure...but he helps me with certain things that my husband cannot seem to help me with right now..

[frannie]

The difference is the lies and the deceit.

 

The OP mentioned MM "staying for the kids". If the A hasn't been outed then the lies/deceit/ is still going on.

 

 

Right. Like normally it is all a fantasy land of milk and cookies and everyone loving everyone else.

 

Real life isn't like that. Most marriages have something going on in the background... yeah, if it's not a full affair then it's love or interest elsewhere... that's life.

 

And as I said... most marriages aren't all sunshine and light. Is it best that they ALL end just because mummy isn't happy with daddy..? Aren't the divorce figures high enough already..?

[frannie]

The difference is the lies and the deceit.

 

The OP mentioned MM "staying for the kids". If the A hasn't been outed then the lies/deceit/ is still going on.

 

I asked that question as far as the children are concerned, not the BS. The BS doesn't really come into it where the children are concerned. Yes, obviously, the BS might either suspect or whatever or pretend they know nothing so they can keep the WS. But in terms of the children... what is different? In their lives..?

 

Even so, I state again that I don't think it's great for children to be lied to like this, but .. when you have a situation in which the children are going to be staying with the mother, and the father is going to be out of their lives for the most part, then yes, you will find many many situations where Dad has affairs and comes home... because he wants things to stay just as they are (men don't get to kick out wives very often)...

[Ladyjane14]

...you will find many many situations where Dad has affairs and comes home... because he wants things to stay just as they are...

 

Yup.... that pretty much sums up the MM-cheater, doesn't it? It's all about what HE wants.

[OpenBook]

Yup.... that pretty much sums up the MM-cheater, doesn't it? It's all about what HE wants.

 

And why SHOULDN'T he have what he wants? He knows his W won't leave.

 

Oh sure, there'll be theatrics - she'll kick him out, he'll live in an apt or at his parents'/brother's house for a couple months...

 

Then he'll beg to come back home, promising her the moon. And she'll take him back. And everything will eventually return to normal.

 

And then, he'll get the itch again. Only this time, he'll be smarter about it.

 

God, I'm getting so jaded - I've been reading too many threads on LS.

[Ladyjane14]

And why SHOULDN'T he have what he wants? He knows his W won't leave.

 

Because he take "what he wants" at the expense of others... and for the purpose of this particular discussion, at the expense of his own children, who are learning NOTHING of merit from the marriage model he sets forth.

[herenow]

I have read so many of these "stay or the kids" threads. Personally, I think it's used as an excuse. Who would argue with a MM saying that he doesn't want to hurt his kids? Or that he can't afford a divorce because his wife will get all the money.

 

However, it seems that when the MM stays "for the kids" or "financial reasons", he is being a good father and doing "the right thing". But, when a wife takes back her H, she is often seen as a fool or greedy because she doesn't want to give up her live style. Isn't it possible that a W takes a cheating H back "for the sake of the kids"? Wouldn't that just make her a good mother doing the right thing?

 

If it works for the MM, then it has to work for the BW.

 

What the MM's excuse when he has a wife that is willing to give him an amicable divorce with shared custody and both MM and BW make enough money to live comfortably without each other? Could it be love?

[Lizzie60]

And why SHOULDN'T he have what he wants? He knows his W won't leave.

 

Oh sure, there'll be theatrics - she'll kick him out, he'll live in an apt or at his parents'/brother's house for a couple months...

 

Then he'll beg to come back home, promising her the moon. And she'll take him back. And everything will eventually return to normal.

 

And then, he'll get the itch again. Only this time, he'll be smarter about it.

 

God, I'm getting so jaded - I've been reading too many threads on LS.

 

You're not jaded at all... you are absolutely right... this is how it works most of the time... sad but true...

 

Women easily forgives... men don't... I guess men are more 'proud' I don,t know.

[sadbuttrue]

i think women do forgive more easily than men. i believe my MM's wife would not leave him, she would get angry but she would stay. and yes i believe he would do everything to keep her there as well.

 

it is very sad but true

[NoIDidn't]

I have read so many of these "stay or the kids" threads. Personally, I think it's used as an excuse. Who would argue with a MM saying that he doesn't want to hurt his kids? Or that he can't afford a divorce because his wife will get all the money.

 

However, it seems that when the MM stays "for the kids" or "financial reasons", he is being a good father and doing "the right thing". But, when a wife takes back her H, she is often seen as a fool or greedy because she doesn't want to give up her live style. Isn't it possible that a W takes a cheating H back "for the sake of the kids"? Wouldn't that just make her a good mother doing the right thing?

 

If it works for the MM, then it has to work for the BW.

 

What the MM's excuse when he has a wife that is willing to give him an amicable divorce with shared custody and both MM and BW make enough money to live comfortably without each other? Could it be love?

 

HN

 

You have to know by now that nothing positive is ever thought of the *competition* on this forum. Tsk, tsk, tsk. The BW has to be a fool to take back a known cheater, especially if she CLAIMS its for the kids. Only the ML (married liar) gets to make those claims and actually be believed and thought the better for it. Only the ML actually has those kids on his mind. So long as the ML is believed, all is okay in the world. Didn't you get the memo?

 

Again, the double-speak here that goes for logic is baffling.

[sadbuttrue]

NID, do you really consider BW's to be in competition with the OW? from what i know, they usually dont have a clue and therefore cant really put up a good fight. it is an unfair competition if that is the case.

 

i dont feel like i am in competition with the W. she is what she is, and i am what i am. i may happen to have some better qualities than her, and likewise for her. i dont feel like it is a game. i would be the loser if it were.

[Love4Eternity]

NID, do you really consider BW's to be in competition with the OW? from what i know, they usually dont have a clue and therefore cant really put up a good fight. it is an unfair competition if that is the case.

 

i dont feel like i am in competition with the W. she is what she is, and i am what i am. i may happen to have some better qualities than her, and likewise for her. i dont feel like it is a game. i would be the loser if it were.[/quote]

 

Thats how I feel and the MM I am with feels that way with my husband, neither of are in competition with the others spouse. If it turns out that I left my husband due to our issues that has nothing to do with the MM, I wouldnt encourage him to leave his family and be with me even if he left his family i couldnt see him and i being together long term, we wouldnt trust each other and that in my opinion is one of the important things to have in a successful happy marriage, which is one of our (mine & hubbys) issues......

[NoIDidn't]

NID, do you really consider BW's to be in competition with the OW? from what i know, they usually dont have a clue and therefore cant really put up a good fight. it is an unfair competition if that is the case.

 

i dont feel like i am in competition with the W. she is what she is, and i am what i am. i may happen to have some better qualities than her, and likewise for her. i dont feel like it is a game. i would be the loser if it were.

 

Its in ** quotes, so, no I don't believe that there is a competition going on on the part of the BW. Now the OW, not so sure sometimes.

 

But not going any further with this because its off-topic. This thread is about "together for the kids". And that's what my post addressed.

[PoshPrincess]

I know that staying together for the kids is a common thing but I am just curious how everyone really feels about it.

 

I was married and always thought I would be (I was a child of divorce and hated it) but I choose to leave the marriage. It had nothing to do with either of us having an A but it was other reasons. Sometimes, with everything I have to deal with now I wonder if I made the right choice. My family thinks so and says it is better for me and for my kids in the long run.

 

In the case of my MM, he stays for his kids. He has one son from a previous marriage that he only sees sometimes and says he doesn't want that for the 2 he has with his girlfriend now. I can understand that but (I would never tell him this) as it is right now he is never home. He hates to be there so he is constantly somewhere else. If he were to leave I believe he would have a better relationship with his kids because he could spend quality time with them and they would not see all the fighting that goes on in their house now. (there is a lot of it and it is very mean, I have witnessed it).

 

Does anyone have their own opinions?

 

SimpleGirl, I agree with you 100%. I was in the same position as you, separated (never actually married) from my SO, with a young child and seeing a MM. MM and I eventually split as he couldn't leave 'because of the kids'. I am totally with you that he would have been better off leaving if he was that unhappy but I do think it is a lot easier for us, as women, because we generally get custody of our children. I think also with my MM that he didn't want to be seen as the bad guy by his kids. He had a very good relationship with them both (they are extremely close) and he did spend a lot of quality time with them so I CAN see why he didn't want to leave.

 

I honestly don't believe that staying for the sake of the kids is always 'just an excuse'. In my case, I guess I will never know the truth.

[HappyAtLast]

...for nearly 15 years. Whilst now I have true happiness and love, I would not have done things differently.

 

Personally, I don't think you stay in the marriage for the sake of the kids. Rather, you make the marriage WORK for the sake of the kids.

[whichwayisup]

Then he'll beg to come back home, promising her the moon. And she'll take him back. And everything will eventually return to normal.

 

Reverse it and the same can be said about the OW who keeps on taking MM back...Though the difference is, the wife is married, shared a life with him and has the kids with him. The OW doesn't.

[herenow]

Reverse it and the same can be said about the OW who keeps on taking MM back...Though the difference is, the wife is married, shared a life with him and has the kids with him. The OW doesn't.

 

That's the thing that confuses me. Some OW are convinced that the MM lies to his wife and tells her the truth. I'm sure if the MM is so good at convincing the BW (someone he lives with) that he is telling the truth, he is just as good at doing the same to the OW. Maybe even better because the OW doesn't live with the MM and doesn't know his everyday home routine.

 

OW will say that they know more about how the MM feels because there is real love and the BW is in denial or just believing the MM's lies. Truth is, the OW only knows what the MM wants her to know.

 

After a D-day, BW get to view to the real life things that MM does. She is the one that has access to the paper trail, the friends and family, and everything else. The BW has more to go on to determine if the MM is being truthful. The OW only has his word.

[OpenBook]

I'm sure if the MM is so good at convincing the BW (someone he lives with) that he is telling the truth, he is just as good at doing the same to the OW...

 

The BW has more to go on to determine if the MM is being truthful. The OW only has his word.

 

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? In the first paragraph you say he can fool his W the same as the OW. But in the second you say that the W is better able to see through his lies. ???

 

OW will say that they know more about how the MM feels because there is real love and the BW is in denial or just believing the MM's lies...

 

After a D-day, BW get to view to the real life things that MM does. She is the one that has access to the paper trail, the friends and family, and everything else.

 

Funny, I made exactly the same argument in another thread -- and I was immediately shot down by the BW's, who claim they were completely blindsided, were not "given a choice" in the situation (because they were unaware of the A), etc. etc. How could the BW NOT be aware that something was going on??? She knows him better than anyone else. But apparently that's not the way the BW feels - at least not on this forum.

 

And I think the OW's are all too painfully aware that the MM is lying to them, or leading them on. I have NEVER seen an OW saying she knows more about how the MM feels than his W does. It's more like the OW's are terribly confused... and that's why they post questions on LS.

[whichwayisup]

But in the second you say that the W is better able to see through his lies. ???

She means once DDay happens...

 

But, before DDday, the wife has no real reason to doubt her H as he more than likely is a pretty good liar. Just ask half the OW who wait 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (etc) years who believe their MM's when they say "I am leaving my wife...next year...No no no, next year...No, I mean the year after that..." Yet, they stick around. Just ask SIL.

 

I have NEVER seen an OW saying she knows more about how the MM feels than his W does.

 

You haven't been around long enough. In the past there were afew who did think that and infact, thought they were better than MM's wife and felt entitled to him and the wife was just in the way...