anewme Posted August 5, 2007 Posted August 5, 2007 I have been divorced for two years and have successfully moved on with my life. It was a shocking thing, this divorce, very Lifetime movie, and it changed my life in every way possible. Through much therapy, time, good friends I feel I am a much better person now. I am living with my boyfriend, a wonderful man, and he would like to be engaged. I want to spend my life with him, have kids with him, etc., but do NOT want to actally have a wedding or engagement. Part of this is because my parents dissapprove of him (and that he is JUST a teacher), I think they miss my ex, and we talked in the last few days about getting engaged, but I backed out, primarily because I knew how awful my parents reaction will be. My parents have very antiquated notions about how a woman should live her life. We are not alike at all. In addition, I am super scared ****less of getting married again period. To anyone. My divorce was awful and though I am thankful for the life it gave me, I have no desire to ever have to go through something like that again. In a way I feel like I could wake up and realize we had been married and I would be fine, its the idea of announcing we are engaged and planning a wedding that I don't want. There's also the thing where I don't really want a big diamond ring, but my family will expect it and if I don't have one, they will assume it's because he has no money, and won't believe that it was my decision. Has any one else been in my situation? I love him and it is a loving, supportive, respectful relationship. We have been dating for a year and I am 30.
Lizzie60 Posted August 5, 2007 Posted August 5, 2007 with you... Why marry? for a freaken piece of paper... and then so much hassle to get out of it... Hold your point... don't get married if you don't want to... If he loves you, he will just understant and accept your decision. I never married and never will... period.
Trimmer Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 I want to spend my life with him, have kids with him, etc., but do NOT want to actally have a wedding or engagement. I think the idea of not having a wedding is a small bandage on a problem much bigger. If your parents don't approve of him at this stage, and have antiquated notions about how a woman should live her life, do you think that living your life with him, having children, etc. will all be OK in their eyes by virtue of you avoiding the marriage ceremony? Won't that have just the opposite effect? Also, the idea of avoiding marriage because you don't want to go through a divorce again... If you do embark on a life together, and especially if you do have kids, who will see you as "mom and dad", if you do eventually decide to split up, it will be no less painful by virtue of not having married and signed Lizzie's "freaken piece of paper." The divorce papers are no more inherently meaningful than the marriage papers. I agree that a marriage is not made of paper; it is made of a deep commitment between two people. Likewise, dissolving a relationship is not painful because of the divorce papers, it is painful because of the ripping apart of that commitment. In the event of a separation, the pain in your hearts, and those of your children, will be very little relieved by the "benefit" of not having to sign divorce papers. And besides, you might well still have to go through some amount of legal junk anyway to split common property, determine parenting plans, etc. depending on the laws of your state, whether you qualify as a "common-law" marriage, etc... By saying these things, I'm not necessarily advocating that you get married and sign the paper. But I am suggesting that the problems you are hoping to avoid by avoiding the institution of legal marriage may not actually be mitigated to the degree you think they will. Your parents' disapproval, your fear of commitment, the need to offer immense trust and commitment to another person, and the attendant possibility of eventual separation, pain - maybe even betrayal - all of these things will be present whether or not you sign the papers, won't they?
Author anewme Posted August 6, 2007 Author Posted August 6, 2007 After reading replies, I guess part of my fear is that I have my parents saying the following things: He can't support you He's a teacher and that's unmanly You won't be happy, you are too young to know what you are doing There is no way you are over S (the ex) **though it has been 2 years since i have seen him You can't make good decisions, you're always changing your mind, I mean you said you'd never date a teacher (I'm a teacher, too) He's not right for you because of x,y,z (at one point they brought up that he was of Polish decent) And I fear that if I do marry and things don't end up working out, I'll have mommy dearest (by the way, on a good day she is SHirly Mclaine in Terms of Endearment) telling me that she knew this would happen. She said the same thing in conversations about my ex. She basically is a terrible person, but I put up with her because I love my dad.
BlueEyedSarah Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 Why are you worried about your parents? Your a grown woman you can be with who you want to be with. Its your choice who you are with, not theirs.
BlueEyedSarah Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 He's a teacher and that's unmanly Its a pay check. It does not make him any less of a man, he proberbly enjoys he's job. What kind of teaching does he do? My friends friend is a English teacher, he travels to diffrent countries every now and again and teaches English to them. You won't be happy, you are too young to know what you are doing Ok...I thought in your first post you said you are 30, I didn't know you were really 18. There is no way you are over S (the ex) Everyone heals at diffrent times, you can't just be sad for all your life about your ex, especially if you meet some one else in your life who you share strong feelings for. You can't make good decisions, you're always changing your mind, I mean you said you'd never date a teacher (I'm a teacher, too) Peoples opinions change.
Curmudgeon Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 Why are you worried about your parents? Your a grown woman you can be with who you want to be with. Its your choice who you are with, not theirs. You should decidedly not get married until you are independent, and that means emotionally as well. So long as you care more about what your parents will think than you do about yourself, or the man you love, then marriage would be a very bad idea. As for the possibility of another divorce somewhere down the line, sure it can happen. There are no quarantees in life except taxes and death. You survived the first one, didn't you? Chances are you'd survive another if it came to that. Have you considered some pre-marital counseling? I think it would help.
Curmudgeon Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 Why marry? for a freaken piece of paper... and then so much hassle to get out of it... I don't know very many people who have married for a piece of paper. I do know many who have married for the sake of love and commitment, mutuality and the special bond it brings for those who take their vows seriously and meaningfully. Just because you don't believe in marriage I find it totally inappropriate of you to attempt to dissuade another from what may well bring them happiness and a sense of security, as well as possibly appeal to their religious beliefs.
Author anewme Posted August 6, 2007 Author Posted August 6, 2007 No, you're both right. I am a grown woman. I guess that I used to have a good relationship with them when I was married, but I now see that the relationship was conditional, based on the fact that I was living a life my mom was "proud" of: rich husband, house in southern california, could afford designer clothes. The difference was that he was cheating and never around. I know deep down my mom has her own issues (my parents were both very poor and struggled for a long time), but when she insults my boyfriend, it sounds like she is talking about my dad. My boyfriend and my Dad are very gentle, quiet, smart and sincere. Bottom line is that I wish I could have parents who were proud of how I got through such adversity, that I was left with nothing and now have a great job and a condo and great friends, but none of that seems to matter. My hesitance to marry is because for some reason I think if I wait longer, they'll come around. My therapist tells me I should know better. I read an interesting article in a magazine about how when you change, people will try to sabotage the "new you" because they themselves can't deal with change. But i am stuck in a rut right now because I am making decisions based on the desire for my parents approval. And I am 30 goddamn years old for ****s sake.
Author anewme Posted August 6, 2007 Author Posted August 6, 2007 And I have considered pre-marital counseling. I have been going myself once a week for the last 1 1/2 years and it has helped immensely. I'm trying to become very self-actualized and I feel I am 70 percent there, but have hit a plateau. I have stopped letting my parents berate me, only speak with them if it will be on my terms and have made it perfectly clear that their behavior is deplorable and will not be tolerated any further. I have been able to keep that up for about 6 months now, longer than I ever have been able to before in my life. But still, they're my parents and when I see mother's and daughters hanging out, or when I hang out with his mom, it just makes me really sad sometimes, you know?
Trimmer Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 I had just constructed a post about how you need to finish separating from your parents, then I updated the thread view and saw that you had commented on that very thing. I'm glad you are doing some counseling, and it sounds like you are working on that very thing... It must be hard for you to hear your mother's criticisms, especially when you hear them as implicit comments about your dad. It does sound like she has issues... Bottom line is that I wish I could have parents who were proud of how I got through such adversity, that I was left with nothing and now have a great job and a condo and great friends, but none of that seems to matter. I understand your longing to have their recognition of that. But I hope you realize that, apart from their opinion, it does matter. It should matter to you. You must be very proud that you "made it through", that you are rebuilding a life you can enjoy and be fulfilled within. That you have healthy connections to friends who do support you. Your parents' approval and pride would be nice, and you surely feel its absence, but your approval and your pride are so important and well deserved - I hope you get some solace from that. You speak highly of your father. Is it mostly your mother with these harsh feelings? Is your father a source of any comfort? Maybe he is truly proud of you, but it gets overpowered in the complex relationships between him, your mother, and you... Are there any older, female family members (Aunts?) who are supportive?
Curmudgeon Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 I have stopped letting my parents berate me, only speak with them if it will be on my terms and have made it perfectly clear that their behavior is deplorable and will not be tolerated any further. ...none of us have to permit toxic people to hurt or harm us. It doesn't matter whether or not they're related. If they're unpleasant, controlling or emotionally abusive we're better off distancing ourselves from them. We owe it to ourselves. A lttle story here. When my wife and I were going to go to her mother's to tell her we were getting married, my wife warned me about her mother's toxicity. I'd never met her before. I chided my wife and told her that NO ONE could be THAT bad. She must be exaggerating. On the way home from the visit I apologized to her. She'd understated her mother. She was that bad and worse! We've been married 11 years. I haven't seen nor spoken with my mother-in-law in nine of them and my wife has only spoken to her by phone about twice in the last seven years and seen her once. She lives 20 minutes away! My wife's father and I would have gotten along famously. Unfortunately, he died two years before we started dating.
Author anewme Posted August 6, 2007 Author Posted August 6, 2007 I should state that EVERY single person in my life, besides my mother, is supportive and thinks that J is the most amazing wonderful fit for me. As far as my dad is concerned, I think he is overpowered by her. He always has been, just seems to be rather complacent in the marriage. About 6 months ago, when things came to a head, he came over and we talked and when I asked him why my mom is like this he said in a very defeated way, "I don't know". I have called him out on not sticking up for me, and he will say he'll talk to her, but nothing changes. I don't know if he talks to her, or if he does she just ignores him (he's done everything in his life for her and she just takes him for granted), so I understand that he is the one who has to live with her. I mean, choose your daughter or your wife? I don't think he is comfortable with having a relationship with me without my mom-and probably because she would make it uncomfortable in a very passive agressive way. And I can tell that my Dad likes J. On the other hand, it's been a year and only recently has my mom looked J in the eyes when we visit, which isn't often. She's ridiculous.
Woggle Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 If you are ever ready to marry him go to court and make it official without telling anybody. You also need to stop letting your parents run your life because you are a grown woman and need to live your life for you. Your mother is probably a saint compared to mine but I don't let her run my life.
Hazy Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 If you are really in love with this man, it does not matter what his profession is, because if you marry a rich man and there isn't deep love there, you will never be happy and it will never work. Do you realize that your parents are also insulting YOU when they say he's "just a teacher?" I would take some space away, and I do agree that you should just get a Justice of the Peace, elope - go to Nevada, lots of beautiful spots there to marry, the instant marriage thing is a statewide thing, you don't have to do it in Vegas if you think that's too cheesy. If you feel it in your heart and soul with this man, do it. To he double hockeysticks with who your parents think you should marry. Would they rather you be married to your rich, but cheating, exhusband? It does not sound as if they truly have your best interests at heart when it comes down to it. YOU'RE the one who would be married to the man, not THEM. You have to live for YOUR happiness, not to please them!
Starry-eyed Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 I read an interesting article in a magazine about how when you change, people will try to sabotage the "new you" because they themselves can't deal with change. But i am stuck in a rut right now because I am making decisions based on the desire for my parents approval. And I am 30 goddamn years old for ****s sake. That is so true that some people will try to sabotage the "new you." It's scary to them that you are growing as a person and developing in new ways. We just have to trust in ourselves that the changes we are making are good. anewme, I can relate to wanting your mom's approval, although it's sad and unhealthy for you that your mother is not very nice and loves you conditionally. But, who is more important to you: your parents or this man? That's the bottom line, isn't it? If you had to choose a life with either only this man or only your parents, which would you pick? Whichever one, that is the direction you should go in. I have never dated a guy that my family disapproved of (or at least they didn't tell me!), but I think if my mom or family did not like or approve of a guy I was seeing that it would be a red flag for me. It would influence me. Of course, it will also depend on why they didn't approve. In your case if it is his income and social position and not about his personality or behavior, that could be different (that conditional love that your mom shows you). Don't know if that makes sense. You just need to determine what will make you the best person you can be: being guided by your parents and allowing them to influence your life, or being guided by your feelings for your bf and willingness to distance yourself from your parents.
Author anewme Posted August 6, 2007 Author Posted August 6, 2007 And I should say that out of every guy I ever dated since I was 15, my ex-husband is the only one she approved of. I mean, she even went so far to come over to my house unannounced on a Sunday morning at 8 am, when she new my boyfriend was out of the country, to tell me how poor I will be and what a hard life I will have and how I will never be happy. My dad called like 2 minutes before she rang, saying he told her not to go, but giving me a heads up. She also said things like "you were always hard to love" and "you loved your ex-husband, never forget that!" like a crazy person. What you have read in this thread is only 1 percent of the **** she has pulled in my life. She has made statements like "you promised me you'd never date someone I didn't like!" and "you promised me you'd never leave!" (when I moved out of the state after college). I never made those promises, unless I did when I was three or something. And her disapproval does not stem from anything but his social status, perceived economic status and the fact that every daughter of her friends is pregnant and has a huge diamond on their finger and is living the stepford life out in the suburbs, which to me would be hell on earth anyway. I have suggested the courthouse/eloping, but this will be his first marriage and his parents, who are long divorced, were married in a courthouse so he doesn't want to do that. We were thinking a small wedding overseas somewhere, in a quaint English town (since were literature teachers).
Hazy Posted August 7, 2007 Posted August 7, 2007 Teachers dating and marrying is actually ideal. With both salaries, you can have a great life, and travel over the summer together, having the same vacations together! I know plenty of teachers who married each other, have kids, and have great lives and are in no way,monetarily or happinesswise, poor.
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